Just a thought...

First topic message reminder :

AS a skins fan, I have read on their fan boards about the disappointment of not getting a QB. Personally I am glad as Gabbert or Mallet were only two that we really could of got. Gabbert i think is disgustingly overrated due to his stats and dumping off in a spread offence (and i am disagreeing with Mayock here which i dont often do as he knows the draft, and more importantly QBs) and Mallet is to slow for the system

Even with that aside, was this the year to pass as they all have flaws and more importantly if the preseason and workouts looking like it may not happen they will mis valueable time, and if they start it could ruin their confidence and there fore career. Not being able to get to grips with the play book, and have the coaches explain exactly what they want will mean that they will have bad rokie season. Lots of positions will suffer from this but i think they QBs have the most to lose.

Thoughts...

I think I had heard the 1st round thing in relation to Kolb, but I wouldn't part with that as a GM if I was San Fran or Miami as they at least have semi serviceable QB's.

Given that, I would want to lower the price slightly

AdZacO wrote:

Derbyblue wrote:Pretty sure I read they've already received offers including 1st round picks for Kolb.

Hmmm...i shall wait to see before i beleive that. Which team would do that. 49ers? Miami? I think he will go for a 2nd and 4th max.

And people saying he is proven. Last year, 5 starts, 7 tds, 7 ints, 60.8% completion, 6 fumbles and a QB rating of 76.1 in his 4th year in league. Thats worse than fitzpatrick and grossman last year. Think people tend to remember his good games rather than his over all performance.

Not all QB's can be as good as the mighty Fitzmagic. 8)

Lets Go Buffalo wrote:

AdZacO wrote:

Derbyblue wrote:Pretty sure I read they've already received offers including 1st round picks for Kolb.

Hmmm...i shall wait to see before i beleive that. Which team would do that. 49ers? Miami? I think he will go for a 2nd and 4th max.

And people saying he is proven. Last year, 5 starts, 7 tds, 7 ints, 60.8% completion, 6 fumbles and a QB rating of 76.1 in his 4th year in league. Thats worse than fitzpatrick and grossman last year. Think people tend to remember his good games rather than his over all performance.

Not all QB's can be as good as the mighty Fitzmagic. 8)

Not mocking the man. Think he is a good stop gap QB, or would do with a team with good defence.

The Mangler US_UK wrote:Ken Wisenhunt is now a believer of taking a great talent over a need. He said on the radio he learned a lesson and regrets the whole bypassing Adrian Peterson and taking Levi Brown because we had signed Edgerin James.

I would have thought most coaches will have at least one player that they regret passing on to take either someone they thought would do better, or going for a team need, for example Chris Johnson was taken 24th behind Darren McFadden, Jonathan Stewart, Felix Jones and Rashard Mendenhall all of whom he has outperformed, and I'm sure you can all think of others.

I feel that really you should follow your draft board, and take who you have ranked highest, no point taking a team need in the 1st if there's no one in the positions you need worth the pick.

Hence I'd trade down. The Patriots model works and has done through the BB era. Don't pick someone you don't need/can't use if someone else wants that pick. If you can't trade, then maybe its a different matter.

On Kolb, I read that the Eagles are entitled to a compensatory 1st round pick if he goes?

I agree realistically you should aim to trade down if the players that fit your needs will be available later on in the draft and aren't worth your current pick, but its not always possible which is when I would suggest going for best player available over team needs.

Where did you read that? He wasn't even taken with a 1st round pick, and he doesn't exactly have the best of statistics.

I've checked up and I can't find anything saying they are entitled to it, but every article talking about a trade is saying Kolb is worth a #1. What I read yesterday seemed to suggest it was compensatory, but everything I can find right now, just seems to indicate its what he's worth.

Why would the Eagles trade now? They can only get picks for the 2012 draft and with Vick’s style of play he’s likely to pick up an injury, a good back up is needed.
The only way i see the Eagles trading is if it’s a ridiculous offer otherwise have him as your back up tag him and then trade him before the draft. This is all dependants on the new CBA rules.
Don’t believe he’s worth a 1st personally, just with so many QB needy teams his value/ability is being exaggerated.

There are at least two teams out there likely to give up a 1st for him now. I'd say Phin's and Cards would be in the chase, and I dare say a few others are interested.

Eagles will trade if right offer comes. You have a guy they have invested a fair amount with but can't really use. Unlike the old days, there aren't many NFL teams prepared to carry 2 top class QB's because of the likely cap hit, so you keep your #1 guy and have 1-2 decent backups, then hope either your starter stays healthy, or you can survive without him for a couple of weeks. There's also the factor of getting value for a player before he's eligible for FA.

Kolb's bad games are also over exaggerated. The Cowboy game he was put in with 3rd stringers with pretty much no gameplan. He had an UDFA protecting his blindside from DaMarcus Ware.

Even in the Tennessee game he had us in position to win before the whole team **** the bed.

In the Atlanta game he was brilliant, even without Jason Peters and DeSean Jackson for 3 quarters he led us to a demolition win over the future HFA holders in the NFC.

And you question hes worth a 1st round pick after Jake Locker went #8 and Ponder #12 last week?

Graeme Swann's Cat wrote:Kolb's bad games are also over exaggerated. The Cowboy game he was put in with 3rd stringers with pretty much no gameplan. He had an UDFA protecting his blindside from DaMarcus Ware.

Even in the Tennessee game he had us in position to win before the whole team **** the bed.

In the Atlanta game he was brilliant, even without Jason Peters and DeSean Jackson for 3 quarters he led us to a demolition win over the future HFA holders in the NFC.

And you question hes worth a 1st round pick after Jake Locker went #8 and Ponder #12 last week?

Most his games are ordinary. 2/3 good games, and a few bad ones. I think the opposite of you, i think his good games are over exaggerated. this was his 4th year in the league, in the same system, and overall was just ordinary. You give me him locker, and ponder on the same wage scale and he comes second to locker for me.

Locker sure could bomb more, but Kolb has proven nothing, one, although very good, showing against atlanta does not prove he can be a franchise QB. He fumbles more than once a start on average, throws an int more than once a start, has a 1.1 TD:INT ratio. His only good point, which is important is he is good in the redzone.

Think he can be an average QB at best, but wont be too bad. Certainly not worth a first round, when you think what kind of talent you can get for that.

He came out in his 1st ever start against the future SB champs, and went toe to toe with Drew Brees for a half. An Ellis Hobbs fumble to start the half and a bad pick admittedly put the Eagles in a mode where the Saints defense is great. Dude had to throw 50 times in his first ever start iirc. Then he blew out the Chiefs. Granted not top level opposition, but still had to beat them.

Also an important point to consider, Kolb isn't available because he had his chance and was bad. He got injured and Vick played at an MVP level. Andy Reid and the FO believed in him enough to trade away Donovan McNabb. And Reid been around enough good QBs.

If I'm the Cardinals, and I'm a QB away from winning the NFC West, I'm happier to bank on a young QB that has played in the NFL, learned an NFL offense and has handled himself with class. As opposed to a developmental guy like Locker or an inferior prospect like Ponder.

Eagles invested a 2nd round pick in him, why should they ask for less?

Graeme Swann's Cat wrote:He came out in his 1st ever start against the future SB champs, and went toe to toe with Drew Brees for a half. An Ellis Hobbs fumble to start the half and a bad pick admittedly put the Eagles in a mode where the Saints defense is great. Dude had to throw 50 times in his first ever start iirc. Then he blew out the Chiefs. Granted not top level opposition, but still had to beat them.

Also an important point to consider, Kolb isn't available because he had his chance and was bad. He got injured and Vick played at an MVP level. Andy Reid and the FO believed in him enough to trade away Donovan McNabb. And Reid been around enough good QBs.

If I'm the Cardinals, and I'm a QB away from winning the NFC West, I'm happier to bank on a young QB that has played in the NFL, learned an NFL offense and has handled himself with class. As opposed to a developmental guy like Locker or an inferior prospect like Ponder.

Eagles invested a 2nd round pick in him, why should they ask for less?

HIs first start he did well because of the situation he was in and i suppose most people in first start would throw 3 ints under those circumstances, and i accept that is the only reason he was dropped, and no one could of took that job back off vick.

The reason they get less than they paid. Last year of contract, he wont sign a new deal if he is back up. He also says he wants to start so wont be happy in the locker room knowing he is holding a clip board. So it comes down to get less, or equal, as you paid for him, or let him go free next year, unless you tag a back up QB, which would be silly, and then you wont get a 1st still. (assuming same rules)

skins4ever wrote:Hence I'd trade down. The Patriots model works and has done through the BB era. Don't pick someone you don't need/can't use if someone else wants that pick. If you can't trade, then maybe its a different matter.

On Kolb, I read that the Eagles are entitled to a compensatory 1st round pick if he goes?

I thought the highest compensatory pick you could get was a 3rd round.

GB1919 wrote:

skins4ever wrote:Hence I'd trade down. The Patriots model works and has done through the BB era. Don't pick someone you don't need/can't use if someone else wants that pick. If you can't trade, then maybe its a different matter.

On Kolb, I read that the Eagles are entitled to a compensatory 1st round pick if he goes?

I thought the highest compensatory pick you could get was a 3rd round.

He means a pick that the team that get him, have to give. Max is a first and second. Although its never really paid, and is negotiated

AdZacO wrote:

GB1919 wrote:

skins4ever wrote:Hence I'd trade down. The Patriots model works and has done through the BB era. Don't pick someone you don't need/can't use if someone else wants that pick. If you can't trade, then maybe its a different matter.

On Kolb, I read that the Eagles are entitled to a compensatory 1st round pick if he goes?

I thought the highest compensatory pick you could get was a 3rd round.

He means a pick that the team that get him, have to give. Max is a first and second. Although its never really paid, and is negotiated

And i thought he was in last year of contract, not tagged

Kolb is not tendered. His contract has a year to run, though he'd likely be tagged and traded a la Cassel.

Highest compensatory pick you can receive is a 3rd.

Another important point to consider, a 2012 1st at this point is worth less than a 1st for the last draft.

Rumour that I read on a couple of sites is Kolb and a second round pick for Patrick Peterson. That would be one hell of a trade and work out nicely for both teams

bambamwillis wrote:Rumour that I read on a couple of sites is Kolb and a second round pick for Patrick Peterson. That would be one hell of a trade and work out nicely for both teams

I would say that's not a great deal for the Cardinals, just got all the hype over your first round pick, and you trade him straight away to the Eagles, and for a quarterback who is let's be honest still fairly unproven it would be my guess some fans might not be too happy about that.

Patrick Peterson wont be traded for Kevin Kolb.

Yeah lets be honest that will never happen. And a compensatory pick is when a player leaves as a free agent. It is meant to reward a team for picking well, but the player leaving.

A 2012 first is worth less in the points system. However would you agree that when trading, say the packers wanted to trade their first this year, with carolinas first next year, that both parties would acknoledge that the carolina pick is worth more than the packers?