Well done to Rob Howley and his coaches.

Howley and his coaches have taken an enormous amount of blame for the Welsh performances of the last twelve months. It often seemed like anything that was not going right was their fault, when any positive was due to players.

This Six nations championship showed Wales are in goog hands. We saw some clever selection decisions, effective analysis of opposition, improvements to our weaknesses and the players seemed better and better pre paired for their games every time they stepped out on to the field.

Wales improved every game. The final performance yesterday was as good as I have seen by Wales since the RWC campaign in 07.

Maes,

I have made my feelings clear on Howley and still not fully convinced but he has proven me wrong in some feilds.

I really thought he didnt have the minerals to make the big decisions but fair play to him he has done that.

He has (at times) showed bit to much loylalty to players but fair play to him he stuck to his guns and those players (Jenkins and Warburton) have come through for him with big games of late.

I takes a long times becoming a top international coach. Guys like Henry and Gatland did not do it over night.

Howley is on a good upward curve, learning and making the right decisions

Maes mate you are spot on.

Wales under Howley have had some horrendous injuries to key players, Lydiate, Jenkins, Adam Jones, Chatteris etc and played some pretty tough matches without them, yet they were very close to winning most (they should have won the OZ series 2-1). Unfortunately when you begin a losing streak it becomes pretty hard to break it, it then becomes easy to target the obvious and like lemmins alot of fans look at the coaching staff and the flyhalf.

The thing about Howley and Robin Mcbryde is that they have made subtle changes and some courageous ones, thats the sign of an intelligent and tight knitted team,

* Scotland
Passive scrum delayed hit against Scotland was the key to the victory WOW.
* Scotland
Bringing back Warburton even though everyone screamed Tips, and also taking away the captaincy, massive positive and courageous selection which resulted in a MOM performance and changed the whole mood of the Welsh nation WOW. Selecting Ryan at 6 and giving him the captaincy, bringing in AWJ instead of Coombes (I thought he was wrong but give credit) and they both had a bloody good game WOW.
* England
Selected Gethin and gave him the Captaincy WOW..... and ensuring that McBryde told Adam Jones that he was the rock in the scrum, saw the Welsh scrum change from passive delayed hit to hitting firm and low with Jones tucking Cole up like a kipper WOW.
* Selecting Warbs at 6 even though he had MOM previous week at 7 and not giving him the captaincy brave WOW. Selecting Tips at 7 and played the duo at right/left not blind/open WOW.

I was amazed that one poster said he based a good coach on their post match commentary, and that Howely wasn't very blessed up top hence he was a rubbish coach!! I beg to differ he is quite astute albeit perhaps not been the most eloquent at post match media summaries

On a final note I seem to recall that Gats at one point almost had the worst losing record for Wales didn't he?.

Well done Howley & co

Yes Howley can be very proud of himself, I don't think anyone expected this. I wonder what will happen in the long term though without Gatlands influence.

Shifty wrote:Yes Howley can be very proud of himself, I don't think anyone expected this. I wonder what will happen in the long term though without Gatlands influence.

Hopefully by the end of Gatlands contract Howley will have benefitted from a great deal of experience.

He's gone from zero to hero in a short space of time. It's pleasing in a sense him suceeding (obv not others as i'm English!) as I always liked him as player and he was one of the best in the world in his position when he was playing, oh MJ! <weep>

It feels like we (England) have been mugged, roughed up, touched up inappropriately and there's nothing we can do about it... That's in some way of a result of good coaching that!

Out of interest how did jones tucked Cole up like a kipper they are opposite sides of the scrum.

Well said FHF mate...!

The coaches Howley, Jenks, McBride can regularly be seen in the stands keeping a close watch on the game. It is their attention to detail outside the season spotting a relatively unfashionable player like Andrew Coombs, for example, and realising he has what it takes to step in for players as good as Charteris, Davies and AWJ.

bedfordwelsh wrote:Out of interest how did jones tucked Cole up like a kipper they are opposite sides of the scrum.

Well by driving the scrum low and left it effectively turned the scrum forcing Cole up against Gethin. Jenkins on a shoulder to shoulder straight surge push is not as effective as Cole, so Jones effectively wheeled the scrum "tucking Cole up inside out and like a kipper" thus providing Gethin with an advantage he otherwise wouldnt have had. Matthew Rees did this effectively on the Lions tour and the season after supporting Gethins technique, but Adam Jones has adjusted his stance to change the scrum drive from the hooker to the tight head

Great to see the coaches get plenty of praise on scrum v tonight.

maestegmafia wrote:Well said FHF mate...!

The coaches Howley, Jenks, McBride can regularly be seen in the stands keeping a close watch on the game. It is their attention to detail outside the season spotting a relatively unfashionable player like Andrew Coombs, for example, and realising he has what it takes to step in for players as good as Charteris, Davies and AWJ.

Good to see you naming the real hero in the coaching regime Shaun Edwards no tries conceded in nearly 4 and a half matches.

Howley might have learned something during this tournament but I would not want to see him as Wales coach in the future, the players dug themselves out of a hole and worked hard for 3 away victorys before yesterdays great performance. Edwards' defensive organisation has been key. along with the fact that we have a very good team. Rob deserves some plaudits no doubt but for me he remains a decent number 2 at best.

Rubyguby

I think he has done better than Gatland in some ways. We had to win by a certain margin to retain that trophy many many times under Gatland when we have had those pressures we have failed. This time we didnt

All criticism of Howley was and is still justified IMHO!!!

He hasn't been making better decisions in the last 4 games, he was just sticking with the initial wrong ones and those players were able to up their games!!!

Jenkins first game up still was a poor call, he was unfit and out of shape, Warburton and Roberts had no business being on the park, and Biggar was forced in because of RP's injury. These decisions lost us that first game.

Since then Rees has been thrown away like an old nappy, Owens told he's 2nd choice to 2 different players, James neglected, Coombs dumped out for a half fit AWJ, Warburton had to make up an injury and refuse to take the captaincy back, Jones and Jenkins had to lead the side despite being told they couldn't originally, Biggar gone from outast to crutch, Liam Williams neglected, and James Hook found himself with another tournament trophy he didn't get the chance to earn, not to mention calling up of English stalwarts, and numerous barmy subs!!!

Shean Edwards has to take huge credit for the defencive effort and mindset of every player out there, he has been the guy keeping Howley in a part time job!!!

thebluesmancometh wrote:All criticism of Howley was and is still justified IMHO!!!

He hasn't been making better decisions in the last 4 games, he was just sticking with the initial wrong ones and those players were able to up their games!!!

Jenkins first game up still was a poor call, he was unfit and out of shape, Warburton and Roberts had no business being on the park, and Biggar was forced in because of RP's injury. These decisions lost us that first game.

Since then Rees has been thrown away like an old nappy, Owens told he's 2nd choice to 2 different players, James neglected, Coombs dumped out for a half fit AWJ, Warburton had to make up an injury and refuse to take the captaincy back, Jones and Jenkins had to lead the side despite being told they couldn't originally, Biggar gone from outast to crutch, Liam Williams neglected, and James Hook found himself with another tournament trophy he didn't get the chance to earn, not to mention calling up of English stalwarts, and numerous barmy subs!!!

Shean Edwards has to take huge credit for the defencive effort and mindset of every player out there, he has been the guy keeping Howley in a part time job!!!

That post sounds almost delusional, everyone's opinion is a valid contribution though.

maestegmafia wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:All criticism of Howley was and is still justified IMHO!!!

He hasn't been making better decisions in the last 4 games, he was just sticking with the initial wrong ones and those players were able to up their games!!!

Jenkins first game up still was a poor call, he was unfit and out of shape, Warburton and Roberts had no business being on the park, and Biggar was forced in because of RP's injury. These decisions lost us that first game.

Since then Rees has been thrown away like an old nappy, Owens told he's 2nd choice to 2 different players, James neglected, Coombs dumped out for a half fit AWJ, Warburton had to make up an injury and refuse to take the captaincy back, Jones and Jenkins had to lead the side despite being told they couldn't originally, Biggar gone from outast to crutch, Liam Williams neglected, and James Hook found himself with another tournament trophy he didn't get the chance to earn, not to mention calling up of English stalwarts, and numerous barmy subs!!!

Shean Edwards has to take huge credit for the defencive effort and mindset of every player out there, he has been the guy keeping Howley in a part time job!!!

That post sounds almost delusional, everyone's opinion is a valid contribution though.

Lets sift through the delusion MM...

Do you think calling Kohn up to the squad, despite being a 30 odd year old passionate Englishman with no real ties to Wales chancing his arm for an int cap 7 days before game 1 was a good call???

Do you think Rees and Jenkins were good decisions against Ireland???

Do you honestly beleive Warburton and Roberts were playing well enough at the blues or in the AI's previous to justify starting spots???

Do you think Warburton shouldve played, and captained over Tipuric?

Do you think Biggar was blooded correctly into a full 6N game? Do you think RP wouldve started had he been fit?

Do you think Liam Williams hasn't played well enough for the Scarlets or against NZ to have deserved some sort of action?

thebluesmancometh wrote:

Lets sift through the delusion MM...

Do you think calling Kohn up to the squad, despite being a 30 odd year old passionate Englishman with no real ties to Wales chancing his arm for an int cap 7 days before game 1 was a good call???

I think it was worth calling Kohn and Pretorious into the training squad to have a look at them, especially from the perspective of Kohn where at the time we had no Locks definitely fit for the game, and the opportunity to use a guys who is playing well for one of the best clubs in Europe. He got his cap and he helped us out.

thebluesmancometh wrote:Do you think Rees and Jenkins were good decisions against Ireland???

They weren't the decision that cost us the game at all. We held their scrum well, our line out worked well. WE lost that game because our defence in the first half was to blame. Something that Shaun Edwards the defence coach was to blame for far more than anyone else, particularly Howley.

thebluesmancometh wrote:Do you honestly beleive Warburton and Roberts were playing well enough at the blues or in the AI's previous to justify starting spots???

Both Roberts and Warburton were not playing well, though they have both showed their ability time and time again and when on form they are a cut above. Playing them was not a bad idea, by the end of the tournament both were playing at their best and we won the tournament smashing thirty points past the favourites. Again, a good call by the coaches getting these lads up to their best.

thebluesmancometh wrote:Do you think Warburton shouldve played, and captained over Tipuric?

as captain and a more experienced player yes, in form no? But it is something that the coaches saw and it worked. Again good decision by the coaching team .

thebluesmancometh wrote:Do you think Biggar was blooded correctly into a full 6N game? Do you think RP wouldve started had he been fit?

If RP had of been fit and in form he is a better player than Biggar, with more experience.

Biggar was a great choice and has done really well in RPs absence.

thebluesmancometh wrote:Do you think Liam Williams hasn't played well enough for the Scarlets or against NZ to have deserved some sort of action?

He has, but who in that team doesn't. Liam Williams is a great player but he is not a better winger than North or Cuthbert or a better fullback than Halfpenny or Byrne...

Again I have made my views clear and still not fully convinced by Howley.

Should he have called Kohn and Pretorious up IMO No - Kohn certainly is not one for the future and if he wanted a short term fix then Gough could have filled that role. Lewis Evans should have been included over pretorious.

Jenkins shouldn't haven't started over James and I wouldn't have given him the captaincy but fair play to him he got better every game and came through it all well.

Tipuric should have got the nod over Warburton but on flip side and in Howleys defence I never thought he would have the balls to not pick him as captain.

Liam Williams' time will come and none of the back 3 done enough wrong to warrant being dropped for him.

The reason I think Howley has learned alongside this is that he hasn't even mentioned McCusker and Turnbull since he presided over the AI debacles. Well done Rob, you will be the Brian Kidd of the rugby world

TBH Bedford, your opinion of Howley doesn't really matter as he just won the Championship. Glad he was Head Coach and not you hey!

gowershowerpower wrote:TBH Bedford, your opinion of Howley doesn't really matter as he just won the Championship. Glad he was Head Coach and not you hey!

In that case then shower of lets close all forums hey because we all have different opinuos on everything.

He just coached a team that played magnificently and absolutely annihalated the English and you a picking holes in his selections etc...

He won the Championship and yet you are still not convinced.

It just spells out that your opinion is wrong. I'm merely pointing that fact out for you.

you're welcome.

Gower mate,

don't misinterpret what our mate Beds is saying, he has actually praised Howley a great deal over the championship for making good decisions.

I have ribbed him a bit for the slating he gave Howley prior to the Six Nations when, it was me who was defending Howley's decisions, sometimes in a devils advocate kind of way, other times because I trusted the calls the Welsh camp were making.

I believe that we should all delight in success, we shall all be grateful for the hard work of the squad and the coaches.

Sometimes decisions are wrong, sometimes they are right, sometimes the reasoning for those decisions seems bizarre, hopefully we are proved wrong.

Thankfully this tournament many of us were, as you said, proved wrong.

Essentially what your saying MM is that his mistakes didn't matter because the end product was the right result, that the 8 losses including one to an Irish side who offere little against every other 6N team is all good because of a victory by an emotionally driven Wales.

I think your very niaive to think Howley won't be making the same mistake that allows us to lose game after game, his selection is ropy at best, he struggles to motivate the players, and he is immensely lucky to have the likes of Edwards to make his life so much easier.

If you agree Jenkins, Ree, Warburton and Roberts were all off form then how can you not agree that they contributed heavily to the loss first up, they were our main defencive leaders and were the problem!!!

Kohn did a job and helped us out did he? What exactly did he do in that 1 cap that Gough, Jones, King, Shinglar and Sidoli couldn't have? We still lost that match!!!

I put the England victory squarely in the hands of the players who were highly motivated, emotionally charged and superbly handled during the week by the only inspiring coach there... Edwards!

I'm sorry but the first result was always going to be key for Wales tournament, it was mishandled and bundled by Howler, then the coaching team decided to play risk free tight and nervy rugby throughout hoping our players had the ability to nick scores here and there!!