Get rid of Jonathan Davies off the BBC?

Afternoon,

Usually post in boxing since I joined but have more than a passing interest in Union but this article on BBC Sport has really wound me up:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/21839805

Now, how on earth can a team that were condemned to 8 straight losses have 12 - yes 12 - players in Davies' Lions starting XV?!? I mean Warburton has a couple of good games after being dropped (lets not forget that) and suddenly he's the man to lead the Lions?

Pick more than 7 Welsh players and it's going to be a whitewash. Guaranteed. They simply don't have any sort of record of winning the big BIG games against Southern Hemisphere teams.

I think Davies is a great character and pundit and would be a shame to lose him, he along with the rest of wales are uber pumped after they watched thier national team destroy england. The welsh live, breath and eat rugby and winning the six nations at home by beating england doesn't come much better. Everyone is riding the crest of a wave and wales are the best team in the world for now, just as england were after beating New zealand so i can understand why all team selections are wales filled at the moment especially by joyous welsh pundits. When it comes down to it wales have been royally poor recently but redeemed themselves in an awesome display, just as england have been very good but let themselves down immensely. Hopefully the selection panel will see some sense and pick players on a number of merits over several games performances. That said there will be a large welsh contingent because they have alot of good players...maybe not 12 in the starting line up but around 8 definately.

'of' or 'off' the BBC?

Warburton was not dropped, he was injured so sat out a game in which Tipuric started and for the next game Tipuric kept his starting spot, with Warburton on the bench. That isn't being dropped.

So how's the Lions recent record of winning the big BIG games?

Everyone (with more than a passing interest) in rugby will know that you can pick a Lions test team today, and it will bare little resemblence to the actual test team selected in June.

The squad selection will not even be confirmed until 6 weeks today, so plenty more rugby to be played between now and then.

I suggest you look at the other pundits Lions XV selections before just slinging mud at Jonathan Davies.

For the record, if the Lions were playing this weekend (and all fit) I would go with:

Stinks of a wum this. I'd be more willing to take it seriously, if you posted where you think he's wrong.

Like you said your more of a boxing fan with only a passing interest in rugby. I think it shows.

30-3

doctornickolas wrote:Like you said your more of a boxing fan with only a passing interest in rugby. I think it shows.

I actually said I have more than a passing interest, but thanks for coming back with a reasoned response. And for the record I go and watch Wasps play when ever I can, as well as the usual jaunts to Twickers.. compared to the 1 or 2 boxing evenings I'll attend each year.

If you look at the Autumn Intls and 6N as a whole I can't see how anyone can defend Davies and his more than biased view on who should start in the Lions test team.

And Warburton was dropped. He came back after 1 game out and didn't start - that's being dropped, mainly because he was in a bad run of form.

Can someone remind me what Wales world ranking is as well? Didn't their shocking run of form culiminate in them being demoted to pool 3 of the seedings for the world cup?

Now I'm not saying lets just pick English players, far from it. I'd play the Welsh front 3, AW Jones, Tipuric, 1/2P, Faletau, North & Cuthbert... But the centres should be locked out between Tuilagi and BOD, half back pairing of Youngs & Farrell (depends on Sexton being fit) and then Launchbury & Robshaw.

Crazy to suggest a respected pundit should be dropped for his opinion on the Lions team after Wales thrashed England last weekend.

Should Mick Cleary resign as rugby correspondent after his Lions XV post the dubious England win over NZ?

maestegmafia wrote:Crazy to suggest a respected pundit should be dropped for his opinion on the Lions team after Wales thrashed England last weekend.

Should Mick Cleary resign as rugby correspondent after his Lions XV post the dubious England win over NZ?

As a pundit when he's talking about teams other than Wales I have absolutely zero issue with him and find what he says to say highly informative. It's when I feel subjected to an opinion that is purely biased I take issue with. His live assistant commentary is god awful when Wales are playing, to hear him screetching in the background after Wales score or to hear him cheering like a fan is unprofessional. Many other respected commentators don't overstep this line. I could provide a few examples when commentators felt embarassed from letting their emotions get the better of them but will go with the Murray Walker example... When Hill won the F1 title he said (from memory) "And please excuse me, as I've got a lump in my throat" - post that comment he has publicly said he regrets it due to the biased opinion blurring what he was there to do.

And let we not forget that England gave Australia and SA a massive run for their money, beat NZ and got pipped to the post in the 6N. It's his 12/15 Welsh players that somehow warrant selection ahead of players who have performed consistently as opposed to chucking in a couple of decent performances after a woeful run of form.

England have got consistently worse since beating NZ, Wales have got consistently better since losing the first half to Ireland.

The Welsh players (although young) have alot of experience. EVERYONE was saying thay Wales V England was going to be the Lions showcase.

Now some people seem to have changed their mind. Hmmm....

munkian wrote:England have got consistently worse since beating NZ, Wales have got consistently better since losing the first half to Ireland.

The Welsh players (although young) have alot of experience. EVERYONE was saying thay Wales V England was going to be the Lions showcase.

Now some people seem to have changed their mind. Hmmm....

We'll just sweep under the carpet their run of 8 losses on the bounce, being demoted to the 3rd pool of world cup seeds and focus on just the last few games for Lions selection then.

Perhaps McGinley should simply make his wildcard choices of who's been playing well for the last 4 weeks before the next Ryder Cup.

I'm not sure what seeding has to do with anything ? We are 5th now, barely behind England. Besides, the WC seeds are done far too early as the groupings show but thats another rant...

I think even the most one eyed people would admit that Wales run of losses was a blip they are getting over. It doesn't make them bad players.

Most pundits (non Welsh) are predicting a good contingent of Welsh players on the Lions tour, are you going to ask the BBC to sack them too ?

The fact that you are horrified that Welsh players may not be in the minority shows you probably aren't even a Lions fan anyway. Best PLAYERS for the job, not country

Besides, if we have to put up with Inverdale you can put up with Davies, at least Davies knows what he is talking about.

munkian wrote:I'm not sure what seeding has to do with anything ? We are 5th now, barely behind England. Besides, the WC seeds are done far too early as the groupings show but thats another rant...

I think even the most one eyed people would admit that Wales run of losses was a blip they are getting over. It doesn't make them bad players.

Most pundits (non Welsh) are predicting a good contingent of Welsh players on the Lions tour, are you going to ask the BBC to sack them too ?

The fact that you are horrified that Welsh players may not be in the minority shows you probably aren't even a Lions fan anyway. Best PLAYERS for the job, not country

Did you read my post where I name my starting XV which is pretty much half Welsh based? So how am I "horrified"?

And Inverdale isn't a pundit. Davies is. Davies compared to Moore is a non starter. Moore won't scream in a biased manner, Davies will. Moore will acknowledge elements of a game i.e. the foothold a front 3 have without seeming annoyed or overly happy.. Davies will.

And an 8 game losing streak isn't a blip - that's enough to get the coach the sack. Seem to remember most of my Welsh buddies asking what the heck Gatland was doing in leaving Howley in charge. Now it's all different, and it comes back to the "blip" - you don't lose against Samoa and suddenly become a good side inside 5 games of which you lose one.

He is biased and a joke to listen to. People always said Moore was bad, but he takes the cookie in my opinion. And having seen his picks for the Lions XV I'm not swayed from that.

You seem to be forgetting that this is the same group of players who won a grand slam last season and got to the semi final of the world cup. It was the 8 matches that were abhorrent not the fact that they've started winning again.

The Wales players showed in this six nations that they have the courage and experience to come back from adversity and handle difficult opposition. The English players showed that when you play at pace and confront them they can't handle it and they don't have the experience yet to deal with that type of game. Head to head there is very little justification for choosing many English players over their Welsh counter parts at the moment but its still early days.

Not sure why everyone rates Launchberry so much. Parling is a far better player with much more potential. Tuilagi would travel but for me would be in the mid week team. Youngs is inconsistent and is still not as effective as Phillips. Farrell might have a shot but he was outplayed by biggar, who has grown as the tournament has gone on. We all know what bod can do at his best but is his best in the past? I'd take Scott and Roberts in the centres. So all in all jiffy had every right to pick so many Welsh and it can be justified. Nothing to get so upset about.

Jonathon Davies was a great player of both codes and has more knowledge of the game than most pundits. Ok he does get a bit enthusiastic but gone are the days of impartial commentators. Brian Moore is just as likely to get involved in that sort of behaviour and has been known to get quite irate when England make mistakes.

Try to calm down. It wasn't so long ago that people were slating in the whole England squad (exaggerating to illustrate the point) and nobody complained because they were playing well but they have been found wanting...and what they wanted was more Welsh players.

I'll respond in kind to a few points:

Form is temporary. Let we not forget they beat a very poor French side, who England also struggled past, and got demolished by Ireland for 40 minutes. Sadly the "if/but/maybe" arguement doesn't come in to it - can't say "oh if they'd performed in the first half they'd maybe have won the grand slam" - that's not how sport works.

Launchberry/Parling, both massively underrated and either or would be my pick alongside for what would be my captain AW Jones.

Tuilagi is a midfield monster. He is Roberts but better. He looks good with Barrett beside him, would look even better with the creative BOD. Question is who plays 12? Tuilagi plays crash ball in a running environment and creates holes, has to start in my eyes.

Phillips is solid, Youngs can explode. Would prefer to see my 9 take risks rather than faff around playing it safe. Again, my opinion.

Biggar hasn't done a huge amount, Farrell has done more. Is a better goal kicker and hasn't had the pack Wales have had to do his thing with quick ball.

I agree you need to calm down over this. Being way too sensitive about it. You do realise they have been doing it every 6 Nations weekend right, so it's basically a team based on round 5 from Davies. As an example, until this weekend he had Hogg over Halfpenny at 15. Seeing as Wales were the only country out of the 4 Lions countries in the mix to win, it's quite fair to assume that based on this weekend that Wales would get the vast majority.

It's still just over a month till selection. Why people are getting so sensitive over these things before then, is beyond me. As an example, people were crowing about Warburton being a starter until the last two weekends. They look pretty foolish at the minute.

The problem is that all the points you make were disproved on Saturday. This is definitely a wind up because if you meant what you said about form being temporary you would know that it was the right games that was a blip in form for Wales. Tuilagi is simply not better our as experienced as Roberts and Phillips exploded all over England add he has done over every six nations for the last few years.

Biggar outplayed Farrell and how you can say he's a better goal kicker I don't know but that won't matter because halfpenny will do that.

Youngs went completely missing agaisnt Wales, Phillips made loads of carries and loads of tackles.

Farrel's kicking against Wales was only 33% accurate whilst Biggar hit a decent drop goal and didn't kick away possession- hoofing away turn overs is a criminal waste of possession by the way. Biggar has done very well for the Ospreys - owned Sexton in Dublin last year in the Rabbo final and has been playing well since and has made the 10 shirt his own.

Manu got smashed early and was very quiet afterwards, JD and Roberts made him look ordinary. He also absolutely butchered a certain try and constantly goes alone instead of passing when theres an overlap

I would say if anything Parling and Launchbury are massively OVERATED at far too young an age by the English media and they need chance to improve their game and mature. Launchbury was brought back too early in his defense but Parling had a good game considering the players that were around him.

State of the Nation - Wales

mckay1402 wrote:The problem is that all the points you make were disproved on Saturday. This is definitely a wind up because if you meant what you said about form being temporary you would know that it was the right games that was a blip in form for Wales. Tuilagi is simply not better our as experienced as Roberts and Phillips exploded all over England add he has done over every six nations for the last few years.

Biggar outplayed Farrell and how you can say he's a better goal kicker I don't know but that won't matter because halfpenny will do that.

Well I guess that we should also assume that England are better than NZ as they beat them in a one match series last year? Fact is England didn't lose 8 on the bounce and get turned over at home by the likes of Argentina, Samoa & Ireland at home. Their form was bad enough for them to get relegated to pool 3 of the seeds for the world cup, was it not? It's not a wind up, it's common sense - why would you take the bulk of players in to a squad when they went on the worst run of form in their history?

You seem completely intent on comparing a one off match as the basis to your reasoning rather than look at the bigger picture.

You seem to be neglecting that Wales have turned their form around and beaten three teams away from home then stuffed the in faves to win the championship ?

And you seem to be forgetting all that went before the eight matches and that has come after it.

Yes their form was bad but as you have previously stated form is temporary. Now they are back to the class outfit they were last year and they're deserving of lions call ups. I think they are actually better than last year when they won the grand slam.

clearly you think you know more than someone who has played international rugby in both codes. So what qualifies you to think that?

Very amateurish wumming.Must try harder .

yes please, just a fan with a foghorn, not a commentator

I for one cannot stand Davies, especially his one-sided commentating. That said, who would you get instead of him? Shane Williams? For all the wondrous things he did on the pitch, Williams is SO dull to listen to as a pundit.

I see Jiffy as the "one I love to hate" He's the one I shout at the tv when they're on, saying something I don't agree with. The 6N would be dull without him.

And remember, he's Welsh, his side have just won the 6N with a demolition job over an underprepared & misfiring England, so why wouldn't he choose a load of Welsh players? He's a pundit, not a selector. I doubt the Lions test teams will have THAT much in common with his come June & July.

Well said, Mr Bounce. Rugby is skilled and also, at its best, fun. Davis is fun. You don't have to be from Wales to understand him (I'm for me own!)...and you don't have to be from Wales to laugh at him. One sided commentating is fun. More of it, not less of it please.