O'Gara To Call It A Day?

Conor George, with his tumescent mickey in one hand and his pen in the other, has written another article about Ronan O'Gara. But this time it's to announce his retirement.

As per usual, George has a few hilarious fanboy turns of phrase;

Schmidt's credentials for the job are beyond question. The only disappointment is that we won't have the chance to see what Schmidt and O'Gara might have conjured up were circumstances different...

But O'Gara will resist the urge for one more year. It is entirely probable the memory of how his international career was brought to a cruel end will discourage him from listening to the pleas to stay for one last assault on Europe's summit...

The game is in his debt for his very presence

Wonder how many times he had to pop off to the bathroom for a quick tug when he was writing this.

Anyway, that all besides the point. Its the right time for ROG to step aside after he produced what was probably his best performance of a pretty poor season by his own standards. The emergence of Jackson, Keatley and Madigan this year represents a generation shift and these are the guys who will be competing to take Ireland forward. If any one of them provides us with half of the moments of magic ROG has over the years they will be doing very well indeed. He'll be remembered as a 10 who was sometimes very limited in his general play but had one of the best kicking games from hand and from the tee of any player in world rugby and massive balls to come up with the goods in tight game after tight game.

Whats been your favourite O'Gara moment over the years?

Some of mine;

His crossfield kick for Horgans try against England- so many great scores off this tactic orchestrated by O'Gara over the years ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hu_2NmTDH-E ), his cheeky tap and go that caught South Africa napping at Lansdowne Road ( https://youtu.be/ML4jARcIPSo?t=30s ) and of course; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXkaaoubGMM

Geez. I though he was coaching already.

Has played his last game apparantly.

Should have retired in 2011 but hung on to the detriment of the teams he played for and his own legacy in my opinion.

Never the less he's been a quality player and played a big role in Munster and Irelands success over the past 12 seasons.

It's sad the way the whole Ireland situation was handled, but to be honest his international days were over after the 2011 RWC and although his 2011/12 season wasn't half bad and he should have retired at the end of last season for Munster.
In 2012/13 he has suddenly fallen off the cliff and unfortunately has damaged his own legacy.

What I am very pleased about is that if the semi-final was his last ever game, he went out playing like we know he can.

If he is to retire, watching him playing to the best of his ability in his final game was a damn sight better than watching the sad, faded figure he appeared before and during the Six Nations. A much better way to remember him and I'm genuinely glad he has the chance to go out now on a high.

After all this, he better actually retire. How frustrating would it be to have that aging albatross hanging over the new generation of 10s we're bringing through for another season?

It IS a bit premature............... apologies for continung the opening metaphor. Not intended............. but it is premature to be once again doing the eulogies by saying 'and he should have gone in 2009,10,11,12 and 13.'

He isn't even gone yet. That isn't official, that's an informed guess - and how informed it might turn out to be, we don't know yet.

Save the 'he should'as' for when he actually 'did'a.

The bhuugger will have to be shot. There is no other option left.

I have been one of his biggest criticis but in fairness he probably put his two finest back to back displays of recent years in the HC QF and SF. While I think he may have been overrated a tad and more of a product of a great pack and style that played to his strengths, there is no doubt he was a class act as a player. Hope he gets a nice job for himself on the box, will be the Roy Keane sulky basterd type, should also alleviate some of those financial troubles.

I can't work out if Notch is actually trying to praise or throw mud at O'Gara.

red_stag wrote:I can't work out if Notch is actually trying to praise or throw mud at O'Gara.

Both Id say. ROG is that kind of guy. I really believe he always overrated his ability and still does. He was dreadful in the SLAM campaign. BOD, POC and Co, carried him throughout that 6-N... then he drops a goal to win it and all that shoite is forgotten. I don't forget it.

Great place and positional kicker, totally protected by a strong pack, for club and country. That is all.

Cue SIN E.

What a stupid article but nothing that you wouldn't expect on here from some posters. There is no need to answer dross that has just been posted by small minded people without the ability to give credit where it is due....a fine bunch of langers if ever there was...

Welcome home DOD.... Your dulcet tones were missed.

You will be glad to hear this is a short visit. Seasons over as far as I am concerned...only the losers competitions left....

Cheers.

Bitter much Decco? Penney will not last too long at Munster, unless he listens to Paulie and ROG and they revert to type, as they did in this years Heino. He must think he's walked into a nightmare...

Not at all Gibbo..i saw the future this weekend. And it was all Red...enjoy the LDVans trophy...cheers

DOD wrote:Not at all Gibbo..i saw the future this weekend. And it was all Red...enjoy the LDVans trophy...cheers

Missed you bud.

Hey Decco, its Queens Night here man. Tomorrow will be the biggest gig Nederland has ever seen.

I'm off out de door to a Belgian Beer pub.

Love and Peace amongst all drinking-men. And wimmin even...

Gibson wrote:The bhuugger will have to be shot. There is no other option left.

That made me laugh out loud.

red_stag wrote:I can't work out if Notch is actually trying to praise or throw mud at O'Gara.

If he retires I'm praising him. If he doesn't, well... its time for him to retire.

A little bit of both, though I wouldn't say I'm throwing mud. I'm trying to give a balanced view of both his strengths and his weaknesses. I think O'Gara is a player who has been brilliant for Ireland but then has slowly turned into a burden in his later years. I do genuinely hope he retires now because whatever your provincial allegiance, it was sad to watch a once great player muddle through and now he has an opportunity to go out near the top of his game. When Jonny Wilkinson was asked about the Lions after the semi-final on Sunday he made reference to the fact he believed it was time for a new generation of younger number 10s to seize the opportunity. The same is even more true of O'Gara. It's time for us to look to a new generation of outhalves and if he continues then he'll continue to distract from that.

Once he confirms his retirement we can breathe a sigh of relief and then, finally, celebrate a legend of Irish Rugby.

If I'm throwing mud at anyone, it's Conor George. That guy is just asking for it!

Totally agree with Notch.

I have massive respect for ROG's achievments as a player but simultaniously am not sorry to see him go. Over the past few years especially, his contribution has been more negative than positive and no player is bigger than the team.

I don't mind ROG running his mouth off when he backs it up but more and more over recent seasons he hasn't been. For me he's also a prima donna who's used his influence behind the scenes to undermine Humphreys initially and more recently Sexton, Keatley, Hanaran and Jackson.

He's also has a history of publically criticising his teammates which for me is a big no-no in a team sport.

He's had a great career though, at his peak arguably the best 10 in the NH, and is without doubt one of the best Irish players of his generation.

In the absence of sin e rodders. I would just like to say that is the worst bit of fiction that I have ever read. It is funny though...

DOD wrote:In the absence of sin e rodders. I would just like to say that is the worst bit of fiction that I have ever read. It is funny though...

Thanks DOD....as my auld buddy Sin e would say, you should never let the truth get in the way of a good story ...

rodders wrote: For me he's also a prima donna who's used his influence behind the scenes to undermine Humphreys initially and more recently Sexton, Keatley, Hanaran and Jackson.

Don Corlronaneone?

Come on guys...the super-evil myths about Ronan O'Gara are becoming a hoot. He was in charge of the downfall of Ireland, the downfall of Munster, the downfall of the Lions, the downfall of communism (that was a accidental good one), the downfall of the Twin towers, the downfall of Lehmans, the downfall of the Star Wars prequels and the downfall of Sean Connery's James Bond wig that never worked a day after Connery gave up the role. I think his most appropriate movie line, when they make the film about him, should be:-

In whispered Corkonian: "Yeah, I've killed women and children. I've killed everything that walks or crawls at one time or another. And I'm here to kill you, Humphreys, for what you done to my early career."

Super evil myths yer bollix fly, sure he even admitted it in his autobiography!

SecretFly wrote:In whispered Corkonian: "Yeah, I've killed women and children. I've killed everything that walks or crawls at one time or another. And I'm here to kill you, Humphreys, for what you done to my early career."

Haha loving the Unforgiven reference. If O'Gara was half as intimidating as Bill Munny he wouldn't have needed David Wallace to babysit him!

Rodders, you're a great one for saying you agree with me and then saying a lot of stuff which is waaaaay more extreme than anything I think or have said...

Gibson wrote:

red_stag wrote:I can't work out if Notch is actually trying to praise or throw mud at O'Gara.

Both Id say. ROG is that kind of guy. I really believe he always overrated his ability and still does. He was dreadful in the SLAM campaign. BOD, POC and Co, carried him throughout that 6-N... then he drops a goal to win it and all that shoite is forgotten. I don't forget it.

Great place and positional kicker, totally protected by a strong pack, for club and country. That is all.

Cue SIN E.

Ha, Ha. You don't get much right, do you Gibbo?

Stag, Ulstermen's have never forgiven ROG for being a far better outhalf than the Humps, so Notch just showing up the traditional Ulster bitterness when they don't get everything their own way.

Notch wrote:

red_stag wrote:I can't work out if Notch is actually trying to praise or throw mud at O'Gara.

If he retires I'm praising him. If he doesn't, well... its time for him to retire.

You worried that Schmidt will bring him back ... other than that its none of your business to get upset about whether he retires or not. Fairly pathetic form to start a thread so that you can have a go at them under the guise of wishing him well.

The Clermont fans seems to think he would be mad to retire and think he is one of the all-time greats - he won't be short of job offers and thats for sure.

I hope he does get plenty of job offers. Like I said, he's a legend of Irish Rugby and when he retires all the good memories will most likely overrule all the bad. Look I don't want to start up the old inter-provincial shoite again. This isn't about the provinces. This is about one of the most ingenious, one-dimensional, ballsy, turnstile, egotistical, game deciding winners in Irish rugby calling it a day.

I think that I'm trying to give a balanced view here- if there's ever been a man who has mixed the sublime with the atrocious in his career its ROG. Not even his most ardent admirers could deny his game had and has some major weaknesses but at same time what he did well, he did better than anyone out there. If O'Gara retires, the tributes will flow and he'll have earned that- but if he decides to give it another year, I'll be less effusive. He has the decision whether or not he wants to retire right at the time when a new generation of 10s are coming through right across Ireland and its time to give them the stage. Keatley, Madigan and Jackson- we need to see all three running the show for their provinces next season as first choice.

Notch wrote:I hope he does get plenty of job offers. Like I said, he's a legend of Irish Rugby and when he retires all the good memories will most likely overrule all the bad. Look I don't want to start up the old inter-provincial shoite again. This isn't about the provinces. This is about one of the most ingenious, one-dimensional, ballsy, turnstile, egotistical, game deciding winners in Irish rugby calling it a day.

I think that I'm trying to give a balanced view here- if there's ever been a man who has mixed the sublime with the atrocious in his career its ROG. Not even his most ardent admirers could deny his game had and has some major weaknesses but at same time what he did well, he did better than anyone out there. If O'Gara retires, the tributes will flow and he'll have earned that- but if he decides to give it another year, I'll be less effusive. He has the decision whether or not he wants to retire right at the time when a new generation of 10s are coming through right across Ireland and its time to give them the stage. Keatley, Madigan and Jackson- we need to see all three running the show for their provinces next season as first choice.

Yawn

Do you deny it?

Notch wrote:

I think that I'm trying to give a balanced view here-

You are just throwing in the odd compliment to camuflage the digs. Unless you think Schmidt is going to reintroduce him to Ireland its none of your business - but facts are, Munster would have to bring in a NIQ next season as cover if he does decide to retire as Keatley and JJ would not be enough cover.

Notch wrote:Do you deny it?

I'll deny it. Remarkable form for someone who has played at such a high level for such a long time. FFS, he played his 10th HCup semi last week at the age of 36 and was the best flyhalf on the pitch.

Well, at the end of the day- he deserves those compliments. He's earned them the hard way. Munster fans should know that more than most. I'd say most if not all rugby fans would join me in commending him for the success he's had throughout his career and the very specific skills he has.

At the same time, I think it's pretty undeniable that love him or hate him he was far from being an all-rounder and that other players could benefit from his stepping aside.

Do you think he would be able to sit back for a year as cover for Keatley and Hanrahan? He's always been someone who would never be able to accept his role as sitting on the bench. And yet, its in Ireland and Munsters best interests to see someone else have a crack at the 10 shirt.

Sin é wrote:

Notch wrote:Do you deny it?

I'll deny it. Remarkable form for someone who has played at such a high level for such a long time. FFS, he played his 10th HCup semi last week at the age of 36 and was the best flyhalf on the pitch.

So his form earlier in the season was- what? Good for Munster?

Notch wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Notch wrote:Do you deny it?

I'll deny it. Remarkable form for someone who has played at such a high level for such a long time. FFS, he played his 10th HCup semi last week at the age of 36 and was the best flyhalf on the pitch.

So his form earlier in the season was- what? Good for Munster?

He was carrying an injury - just he didn't moan about it.

Suddenly Munsters overall form (which was poor) was down to ROG (are you Rodders in disguise). As the vast majority of Munster supporters would have told you

1. We got to the QF because of ROG
2. We got to the SF because of ROG (and POC)
3. ROG played brilliantly last weekend.

So as an Ulster supporter thanks for telling us how we should run our team. We will take it on board and ignore it. It was in Munsters best interest that he played last weekend. Once someone is as good as him they will get their chance. Neither Keatley (stop gap) nor JJ - not doing so well at the moment are currently ready. Hopefully be next year.

Thanks and go worry about Ulster and the lack of any real local talent/leaders....that don't have a south African accent

This is what I don't understand. In the last year or so, have you seen Ronan O'Gara take the pitch and thought "Oh good". Do you actually still have a positive reaction to seeing him play?

Fair play if so, because against Harlequins and Clermont he repaid your faith in a couple of performances that lent themselves to his traditional strengths. His chip for Hurley to score was sublime. His kick to the corner that Lualala was chasing- was it Lualala?- was sublimely placed. A few others too.

So, on that note, surely a good time to go? A couple of valedictory performances that recall memories of old glories and mask recent less vintage displays. It makes perfect and total sense that a Munster fan would want an O'Gara who plays like the one we saw on Saturday to stick around but I'm very incredulous that any Munster fan could possibly be happy for their 10 to be playing like the O'Gara we saw against the Blues at Musgrave Park earlier this season.

I just don't get it.

Notch wrote:

Do you think he would be able to sit back for a year as cover for Keatley and Hanrahan? He's always been someone who would never be able to accept his role as sitting on the bench. And yet, its in Ireland and Munsters best interests to see someone else have a crack at the 10 shirt.

Yes. He is a real team man.

Just some of you couldn't accept that neither Sexton (prior & during the world cup) and Keatley deserved to be ahead of him.

DOD wrote:Thanks and go worry about Ulster and the lack of any real local talent/leaders....that don't have a south African accent

See it's just always silly digs with you. No real debate.

Are we to ignore the whole season bar a few games in assessing a player?

Sin é wrote:
Just some of you couldn't accept that neither Sexton (prior & during the world cup) and Keatley deserved to be ahead of him.

Again, I can only understand this from a provincial loyalty point of view. It just doesn't make rugby sense.

Notch wrote:This is what I don't understand. In the last year or so, have you seen Ronan O'Gara take the pitch and thought "Oh good". Do you actually still have a positive reaction to seeing him play?

Fair play if so, because against Harlequins and Clermont he repaid your faith in a couple of performances that lent themselves to his traditional strengths. His chip for Hurley to score was sublime. His kick to the corner that Lualala was chasing- was it Lualala?- was sublimely placed. A few others too.

So, on that note, surely a good time to go? A couple of valedictory performances that recall memories of old glories and mask recent less vintage displays. It makes perfect and total sense that a Munster fan would want an O'Gara who plays like the one we saw on Saturday to stick around but I'm very incredulous that any Munster fan could possibly be happy for their 10 to be playing like the O'Gara we saw against the Blues at Musgrave Park earlier this season.

I just don't get it.

You forgot the two games against Saracens....What we got was within a score of the HC Final....a player capable of bringing the team to that level in addition to POC. Leadership, management of the game etc. What would you prefer for us. A team that without him would have been rudderless and we would have had a complete washout of a season (even ROG cant be blamed for the Rabo performances fully). Instead we have a group who are improving and have gained confidence in their abilities and that they can compete at a higher level...its up to them to bring it on further...hopefully that will be the case. But at the moment there is no one capable of doing that yet...people really don't get it while its clear as day to about 99% of Munster supporters...

Ah it's as clear as day to me too DOD. But carry on.... my private yacht precludes me from having a legitimate opinion on it all

SecretFly wrote:Ah it's as clear as day to me too DOD. But carry on.... my private yacht precludes me from having a legitimate opinion on it all

Really...let me know where you are moored...will visit on my private rowing boat...

Notch wrote:

Sin é wrote:
Just some of you couldn't accept that neither Sexton (prior & during the world cup) and Keatley deserved to be ahead of him.

Again, I can only understand this from a provincial loyalty point of view. It just doesn't make rugby sense.

As a recent doubter of ROG I can admitt that I was clearly wrong and its a cliche but form is temporary class is permernant. I listened to all the nay sayers and judged him on a few pointless Rabo matches.

Its not loyalty - he was instrumental in Munster reaching the semi final and almost guided us into the final. He has done this all his career. To use the word atrocious is just silly when talking about ROG.

Well no player should be blamed fully for the performance of the whole team- I'm certain he adds a lot behind the scenes as a leader and obviously a massively experienced player.

But it just seemed he was totally at odds with the style of rugby you were trying to play, he couldn't get to grips with it (wasn't the only one) and what was worse- earlier in the year his kicking game from hand had become incredibly inconsistent and counter-productive too. It's heartening to see he's recovered from that.

You were rudderless with him, lets be honest. The game you lost at Ravenhill earlier in the season I'm nearly certain you would have won without his introduction because Keatley was bossing the game. There are other games when suddenly merely having a running threat at 10 just made things click for you and created the space your centres needed almost instantly.

This is a silly kind of debate to be having on a tribute thread. We're not saying anything that hasn't already been said. But I guess it's inevitable given we haven't officially heard about his retirement decision.

I'll put it to you- do you think he should stay on?

BlueMuff wrote:

Notch wrote:

Sin é wrote:
Just some of you couldn't accept that neither Sexton (prior & during the world cup) and Keatley deserved to be ahead of him.

Again, I can only understand this from a provincial loyalty point of view. It just doesn't make rugby sense.

As a recent doubter of ROG I can admitt that I was clearly wrong and its a cliche but form is temporary class is permernant. I listened to all the nay sayers and judged him on a few pointless Rabo matches.

Its not loyalty - he was instrumental in Munster reaching the semi final and almost guided us into the final. He has done this all his career. To use the word atrocious is just silly when talking about ROG.

Is it though? I mean, we all remember the 2007 RWC. We all remember his cameos in this years Six Nations and Lions Tour. We all remember how he's played for most of the season. You say a few pointless Rabo matches, but those matches are the reason your two biggest rivals are still in the hunt for silverware and you are not. When he's good he's great but when he's bad, he's very bad.

Notch wrote:

Sin é wrote:
Just some of you couldn't accept that neither Sexton (prior & during the world cup) and Keatley deserved to be ahead of him.

Again, I can only understand this from a provincial loyalty point of view. It just doesn't make rugby sense.

Nothing got to do with loyalty. I greatly admire Peter Stringer as a player and as a fantastic servant to Munster, but I can understand why Conor Murray is now first choice SH. This has nothing to do with loyalty, its because O'Gara is currently our best outhalf in Munster.

Its kind of strange that the French can get him and the neighbours can't.

ROG did not get us to the QF, he had one decent game in the group against Sarries at home, it was the only game where he kicked well but our backs still struggled with him. It was one of his better games of the year. To be fair he was super in the QF and and SF, a lot of the players lifted thier games, Laulala also grew into both games and performed well. I will concede that our forwards weren't great when he was there.


If you don't think ROG has been a hinderance to Munster at timss in the last 18 months (most of his better games have come in the HC, Saints away, QF/SF this year, he lifted it somewhat in the big games to be fair) then I think that is incorrect, feel free to disagree otherwise. I will admit I was pretty wrong on it, but a large part of ROG's super performances of late have been to our dynamite pack, they have played lights out in the last 2 games, and given him a great platform to work the phases. When our forwards are weak, he is not the guy for the team.


As for Keatley, he has had about 3 big games, won two with two bonus points, and lost to Leinster. He outshined Madigan in Thomond, don't compare him to ROG because he isn't, and he may never be a top player, but he can have his uses without a doubt. It should also be noted that Keatley has only played 3 full games with Murray, and they have looked pretty decent together.


ROG will go down a legend, he is slightly overrated in my mind as he wasn't an all round outhalf. But come to think of it the only all round outhalf of the last ten years who excelled to any degree was probably Carter, with Wilkinson second, but even he wasn't great at getting his backs moving. ROG would be 2nd/3rd of european 1s of the last 15 years. The world over, he may not be remembered fondly though.

BlueMuff wrote:

Notch wrote:

Sin é wrote:
Just some of you couldn't accept that neither Sexton (prior & during the world cup) and Keatley deserved to be ahead of him.

Again, I can only understand this from a provincial loyalty point of view. It just doesn't make rugby sense.

As a recent doubter of ROG I can admitt that I was clearly wrong and its a cliche but form is temporary class is permernant. I listened to all the nay sayers and judged him on a few pointless Rabo matches.

Its not loyalty - he was instrumental in Munster reaching the semi final and almost guided us into the final. He has done this all his career. To use the word atrocious is just silly when talking about ROG.

At last you have seen the light Blue Muff. Now where is that Thomond fellow - he used to really have it in for ROG he was pathetic.

Also no one is saying he is having a vintage season...even he would admit that but again the point is (for Munster) he has helped make the future look a little brighter for us. the performances over the last few months of the collective (which is primarily what Munster is about) has been better especially for the first 15. It bodes well for us...that is all.

RE the type of rugby being played?????in the last 20 mins last weekend and for most of the game (also against Quins) the game was played with the ball in hand. ROG was up on the gainline and his distribution was good. Wow we might have won a game in Ravenhill because Keatley should have stayed on??? Keatley if he played in any of the four big games this season (twice against Saracens, Quins and Clermont) would have been disastrous. The main problem with Munster rugby has as POC pointed out been our inability to hang on to the ball...jeez maybe ROG should be blamed for that too....

Should he stay on? That is his decision. If he does well and good. If Keatley performs with some consistency then am sure ROG will be consigned to the bench also if JJ come through. However Penney is his own man do you seriously think he will play ROG because of who he is....you and Rodders have some serious issues with regards to the influence players have....