Jonathan Humphreys appointed Scotland forwards coach

Not the political pundit on radio 4, the Ospreys forward coach.

To me this looks like a move to shift Johnson to head coach, but maybe that's just my paranoia kicking in.

Anyone know much about Humphreys? Haven't heard much about him as a coach to be honest.

Is all I really have to say. I am still hoping that Ewen McKenzie will be the head coach. My hopes were raised this morning when I read on the BBC that Schmidt was about to be named Ireland coach.

well our only hope of that is happening is if there's a 'director of rugby' role introduced!

FFS - why are they appointing coaches without having a head coach in place - stupid!

Humph coached with Johnson at the Ospreys...

Oh dear; I can see the headlines "Scotland get the Humph" - His after match appraisals are quite entertaining - He will make make Rab Nesbitt sound articulate

Good Luch with that???????

Ospreys seem pretty strong up front. Not sure if it's all down to him, but he's managed to make a handy pack and handy players out of Paul James (now left), Richard Hibbard, Ryan Bevington, Craig Mitchell (now left), Aaron Jarvis, Adam Jones, Ian Evans, AWJ, Ryan Jones, Tipuric, et al. Forwards coach must have something to do with that. Only 1 of them (Jarvis) was brought in from outside, the rest they developed I think (or inherited as relative youngsters at the turn of regionalisation).

Definitely sounds like Johnson is set to be appointed permanent head coach. When I saw this headline I was hoping it would just be another interim appointment to replace Dean Ryan for the duration of the summer tour, but no, it's a 2 year contract. Not that I have anything against Humphreys, never heard of him but he may be very good. It just shows they are appointing Johnson with no sign of any proper search for other applicants. There's no way they'd bring in a new permanent forwards coach at this point in time if there was still a chance of a different head coach coming in. And after Johnson's "kick the ball away at every opportunity" game plan in the 6 Nations, I'm not exactly happy about it.

Oh well, good luck to them both anyway.

Mustard - Humphreys is a former Wales Captain, a Hibbard type player who always gave is all - I'm just not convinced he's got the top 2 inches to be a good coach never mind an international coach. Strange choice for me - Ironically however, he will know all about Adam Jones, Paul James and the others which might help against Wales

But Ospreys have had a fair bit of league success while he's been there, and the pack have been one of their strengths - don't you think this proves his abilities, especially as Griff points out most of their forwards were developed there rather than being bought in?

RubyGuby wrote:Mustard - Humphreys is a former Wales Captain, a Hibbard type player who always gave is all - I'm just not convinced he's got the top 2 inches to be a good coach never mind an international coach. Strange choice for me - Ironically however, he will know all about Adam Jones, Paul James and the others which might help against Wales

Great more members of the Scottish coaching staff that the Wales team can high 5...

Pat_Mustard wrote:But Ospreys have had a fair bit of league success while he's been there, and the pack have been one of their strengths - don't you think this proves his abilities, especially as Griff points out most of their forwards were developed there rather than being bought in?

It might be the case - I just think these boys were developed long before they got to the Ospreys and that Humph has had little to do with it - Let's give him a chance and see how it goes eh!

Yup, as with many SRU appointments I'm a bit underwhelmed, but I'll always give the guy a chance and wish him all the best! I'm still hopeful that Johnson will go for a more positive game plan starting this summer, and he obviously knows Humphreys so if he thinks he is the man to get the best out of our forwards then I'll back him for now at least

TJ wrote:FFS - why are they appointing coaches without having a head coach in place - stupid!

Completely agree. This is fast becoming yet another SRU farce. We have players being signed at Edinburgh on 2 year deals without there being a head coach, and now we have a forwards coach in place with Scotland, again, with no head coach.

How much is it going to cost us if the new head coach doesn't want Humphreys as his forwards coach and we have to fire him (after a few weeks)??

If they are going to simple let Johnson roll into the head coach job, after a very patchy effort in the 6 Nation, I'd like them to at least confirm that they spoke with a large number of alternative coaches from around the world before making the appointment.

Why do we have to make the same stupid mistakes over and over again!!

Massively underwhelmed by this.

If this is combined with SJ being Scotland coach and someone low profile being Edinburgh coach I'll be pretty disappointed!

well from 1st hand experience, he was a lot more clued in than holley was and carries more respect with the squad. I actually think his coaching abilities are far better than his playing abilities!!!!

Cyril is more clued in than Holley - I think you're a bit harsh on him as a player - Humphreys always gave is all and lead by example in some poor welsh teams

On a separate note the new SRU website is bloody awful - took my far too long to find the announcement! Edinburgh one is just as bad - you type in Edinburghrugby.org and it takes you to the SRU website.

Agreed - it's takes ages to navigate either website.

The press release is pretty weird as well. No mention of a head coach appointment at all, and yet we now have our forwards coach up until the next World Cup?? I can only mean that Johnson is appointed for the next two years, and that he's being allowed to pick his coaches.

Griff wrote:Ospreys seem pretty strong up front. Not sure if it's all down to him, but he's managed to make a handy pack and handy players out of Paul James (now left), Richard Hibbard, Ryan Bevington, Craig Mitchell (now left), Aaron Jarvis, Adam Jones, Ian Evans, AWJ, Ryan Jones, Tipuric, et al. Forwards coach must have something to do with that. Only 1 of them (Jarvis) was brought in from outside, the rest they developed I think (or inherited as relative youngsters at the turn of regionalisation).

You would think so, but unfortunately for Scotland not in this case. Humphries is rubbish

dragonbreath wrote:

Griff wrote:Ospreys seem pretty strong up front. Not sure if it's all down to him, but he's managed to make a handy pack and handy players out of Paul James (now left), Richard Hibbard, Ryan Bevington, Craig Mitchell (now left), Aaron Jarvis, Adam Jones, Ian Evans, AWJ, Ryan Jones, Tipuric, et al. Forwards coach must have something to do with that. Only 1 of them (Jarvis) was brought in from outside, the rest they developed I think (or inherited as relative youngsters at the turn of regionalisation).

You would think so, but unfortunately for Scotland not in this case. Humphries is WELSH and is rubbish.

FIXED !
Scottish fans wont be happy.

I really don't think you can speak for Scotland fans actionman. You struggle to speak coherently for yourself.

It isn't Humphreys or his nationality that bother me, it's that we're once again making the mistake of hiring the key coaching staff without have a head coach. To me the top man comes first, then he picks his staff. It's the only way to secure to top class coach. No head coach worth his salt will agree to join Scotland and yet not have any say over who will be coaching the players day to day. Utter madness!

Indeed FES. I think this means Johnson has the top coaches job. Its certainly utterly stupid otherwise.

I really am concerned about this - a bunch of no hopers and failures as Scotland coaches. please let it not be true. WE have the players - we just need some decent coaches. Robinson wasted a year and destroyed some players confidence. Lets not waste another year!

Which little prince had his "confidence destroyed" by Robinson?

Robinson's biggest failing was his team selection, which prevented any sort of long term combinations from becoming established. I didn't have any issues with his man management though. Our players became too soft and cosy with Frank Hadden, and Robinson gave them some tough love. His problems all stemmed from terrible team selections though, and all too often backing the wrong players. Same issues he had with England.

Its only my suspicion but Weir for one - selected for the squad. no game time, dropped, selected again, no game time, dropped. He didn't get to play for Glasgow and didn't get a minute on the pitch for Scotland - I think it harmed him a lot as he didn't play for weeks and clearly wasn't trusted by Robinson at all.

I really think Robinson did a huge amount of damage in the last year he was there with his treatment of players.

Laidlaw clearly did not agree with the gameplan he was told to play as welland he is not the player he was 18 months ago - looks short on confidence

Its only my suspicion tho

Hmmm, I'm afraid I disagree. I have no issue with young players getting called into squads for experience, and I don't think it "damages them" if they don't get to play.

Laidlaw needs to put his ego away and quick. He is not as good a player as he thinks he is, and whether he likes the coach or the game plan is neither here nor there as far as I'm concerned. He is a good and smart player, but he needs to get his head down and practice passing and getting his fitness up. His game management is generally good, but his scrum half basics have suffered as a result of the stand-off experiment, and Kennedy is already pushing him very close in terms of pure scrum half play (i.e. getting to the rucks quickly and passing accurately at speed). Were it not for his superb goal kicking, I'd have Kennedy starting on Friday.

The problem with Weir was that he ended up with no gametime at all for weeks. If Robinson wasn't going to play him and he clearly had no intention of doing so surely he would have been better off getting the gametime for Glasgow rather than sitting on the bench? IIRC he had been out injured and was just coming into some form. It happened twice IIRC

I think his man management stank - but its an opinion only for sure.
edit - anyway thats the past and no longer relevant.

TJ wrote:The problem with Weir was that he ended up with no gametime at all for weeks. If Robinson wasn't going to play him and he clearly had no intention of doing so surely he would have been better off getting the gametime for Glasgow rather than sitting on the bench? IIRC he had been out injured and was just coming into some form. It happened twice IIRC

I think his man management stank - but its an opinion only for sure.

Perhaps Robinson wanted Weir in the squad as cover? Maybe he did call him up with the intention of playing him but Weir's performances in training weren't good enough?

I'd have no issue with Leonard touring with Scotland this summer, and not playing, in fact that's what probably should happen, and again for the AIs assuming Weir isn't fit by then to rejoin the squad.

Scotland comes before Glasgow and Edinburgh (and even Duncan Weir), and if Weir is needed to be part of the squad as injury cover (hard to integrate a new fly half, particularly a young one), then that's what happens. If that series of events "destroyed his confidence", then he's in the wrong business.

FES - but it meant he didn't play a minute of rugby for months. He had been injured and Jackson was playing for Glasgow, recovered from the injury and on the bench for Glasgow, Jackson then injured so Weir needed for cover for scotland but didn't get a minutes game time, Jackson recovers and Weir dropped.

No one can retain the best of their confidence without playing for ages surely. Its different on a tour. He certainly looked like a player short of match time adn confidence - how doi you build confidence without playing?

Awesome signing.

How many leagues have the ospreys won because of their pack?
The wales squad has been dominated by ospreys for 8 years.

Yep TJ it makes me shudder with rage to think we had that moron Robinson in charge even after the woeful RWC 11 and 6 Ns 2012. I fear we are stuck with the underwhelming Johnson now.

Were not back to this are we?

Robinson didnt owe anybody gametime. However, he needed a squad with lots of cover, especially in a key position such as fly half. If say, Jackson had pulled a hamstring during the captains run and Weir had been with Glasgow, hed need to be parachuted in with no time to get associated with the gameplan, mindset etc, even if it was onto the bench. He needed Weir with the squad ready to step in for such a situation. Should Gatland only take the 23 for the first test to OZ tommorow?

Yes, Weir needed gametime, but Scotland duty called, and he answered. If he, or any other player cant handle being a reserve then their temperment should be questioned.

Well it seems Johnson will get the job now in my opinion.

You know what? I'm not bothered actually. I've spoken out against johnson's game plan from the 6 nations but I'm going to assume that was just a temporary plan and that Johnson will add some more depth and creativity to it before the tour of SA.

Ospreys are a bloody good team with a great pack. Having the man who has coached that ospreys pack since 2006, now coaching Scotland, is not a bad choice. The Scotsman claim the following...

"Johnson’s future remains unclear with the coach stating at the end of the Six Nations that he was considering whether or not to continue to the summer tour to South Africa, but it now appears that he will remain in charge and is pulling together his own management team."

I tend to agree, I think Johnson has chosen Humphreys as his forwards coach. It wouldn't make sense to sign someone on for 2 years and then pick a coach like Mckenzie or mallet as the head coach. They would want their own choice of coaches.

I reckon the SRU will announce Johnson as head coach soon. He's not a bad choice. Gets along with the players, great in interviews and I think he has a lot more coaching potential. Lets see how he gets on.

Its not that he couldn't handle being the reserve - it was that he ended up not playing a minute of a game for months. He didn't complain publicly - but he didn't half look fed up at times and his game suffered - he was basically rusty from lack of play.

Look its only my take on what happened and an example of how Robinson did not help players at all.

I hope you are right bsando - but I fear you are wrong. Johnsons recod is of continual failure

With regards to the criticism of Johnson's gameplan during the six nations, I reckon the "defend defend defend AND KICK" was put in place because he has b*gger all time with the squad and needed a generally semi-effective easy to play game plan just to survive the six nations so I still believe we've yet to see the official game plan - hopefully with Johnson at the helm it may be attack orientated with a lot of counter attacking from turnovers!

Tramptastic wrote:With regards to the criticism of Johnson's gameplan during the six nations, I reckon the "defend defend defend AND KICK" was put in place because he has b*gger all time with the squad and needed a generally semi-effective easy to play game plan just to survive the six nations so I still believe we've yet to see the official game plan - hopefully with Johnson at the helm it may be attack orientated with a lot of counter attacking from turnovers!

That would be all very well apart from the last game, which was basically a dead rubber. What did we do, kick and kick some more.

I am going to make the not so bold prediction that with SJ in charge we are guaranteed the wooden spoon next year

Tramptastic wrote:With regards to the criticism of Johnson's gameplan during the six nations, I reckon the "defend defend defend AND KICK" was put in place because he has b*gger all time with the squad and needed a generally semi-effective easy to play game plan just to survive the six nations so I still believe we've yet to see the official game plan - hopefully with Johnson at the helm it may be attack orientated with a lot of counter attacking from turnovers!

My hopes exactly!

If it isn't the Scottish public will let I'm know they're not happy pretty quickly I imagine.

Adam Jones is I'd say would have an opinion that's worth listening too....from the Western Mail in the 6 nations:

Following his sobering Paris experience, Jones sought solace from Wales forwards coach Robin McBryde and his Ospreys mentor Jonathan Humphreys.

“With all due respect to ex-players, I’m not going to listen to what they say about my scrummaging,” said Jones.

“The people I listen to are Robin McBryde and Jonathan Humphreys.

“I go to Humph before anyone regarding my scrummaging and put a lot down to him.

“Since he came to the Ospreys, he’s helped me improve my scrummaging and played a big part in my development.

“We had a chat about things and he sent me a lengthy text about what had happened.

“It made me feel better, it made me think it wasn’t quite as bad as had been made out.”

Jones will be aiming to repay Humphreys’ faith when he returns to the region tonight with his eyes on helping the Ospreys retain their Pro12 title by pipping the Scarlets for the final play-off place.

I would say that the Ospreys have one of the best, if not the best pack of Forwards in the Rabo, the majority of which came through the system at the Ospreys. The three most recent examples being James King, Justin Tipuric and Ryan Bevington. You would have to assume that his coaching is in part responsible for that. Not sure why the daggers are out for him, I'd say that potentially half the pack of forwards he coaches will start for the Lions.

I think most people are angry because of the stupidity of appointing assistant coaches befoer the head coach and wondering if this means we are stuck with Johnson.

I think this is the makings of an utter disaster for Scotland myself. To me it looks like we are stuck with Johnson now and he is an idiot with a record of nothing but failure. Another wasted year or two. more wasted money, another nail in the coffin of Scots rugby.

TJ wrote:I think most people are angry because of the stupidity of appointing assistant coaches befoer the head coach and wondering if this means we are stuck with Johnson.

I think this is the makings of an utter disaster for Scotland myself. To me it looks like we are stuck with Johnson now and he is an idiot with a record of nothing but failure. Another wasted year or two. more wasted money, another nail in the coffin of Scots rugby.

+1 I'm afraid.

Amazing that the SRU will still pull amateur stuff like this. How can we not construe from this that SJ has the job? There's no way someone as influential as MacKenzie would just rock up and let someone else choose a coach in such a key role. We've got Johnson all right - be in no doubt.