Justin Marshall on Club rugby

Hi Guys, please read this, it is a piece by Justin Marshall, an excellent read

It was early in the second half that I began to question my wisdom.

Tony Woodcock had ball in hand, a bit of a grin on his face and was running straight at me. Off to his left, clearly relishing the prospect of being first to the breakdown to clean me out, is Andrew Hore.

I’m still sore this morning. But it’s the most contented and “nice” sore I’ve felt in a long time.

On Saturday, I played my first senior club rugby game of the year. Since moving to Queenstown, I’ve been doing a bit of casual backs coaching at the Wakatipu club and when I was asked if I’d play the odd game, I was silly enough to agree, rationalising it as a way to keep a bit of fitness up at 39.

It was quite some debut assignment. For starters, they don’t come much bigger in Queenstown.

Wakatipu was making their second defence of the White Horse trophy which I am reliably told is the second oldest trophy in New Zealand rugby to the Ranfurly Shield only.

Our opponents were Maniototo who just happened to have a couple of brothers named Charlie and Andrew Hore who had brought along their mate Tony for a run as well. They soon let me know they were there.

My first wobbly pass was greeted with a chuckle from Horey and the comment: “Nothing’s changed, huh Marshy?” (his first wobbly lineout throw drew the same response from me of course!).

Reflecting yesterday on the game, the beers and camaraderie I had afterwards with the Hores, Tony and players from both sides (it was quite some night!), I was surprised at what it stirred in me.

Outside of the presence of two current All Blacks (and a crusty older ex-one), this was as grassroots as rugby gets in New Zealand.

We had the women being thanked for the plate, the speeches from both teams, the winning team (thankfully us) drinking from the trophy, the re-living of the game’s high and low moments, the banter and rugby’s spirit flowing freely among opposing players.

I found that unexpectedly inspiring and it reminded me of why I played rugby in the first place.

Horey just looked at me with a knowing wink. He says this is why he plays for Maniototo whenever he can. Woody was more animated. He was loving this environment.

Let’s face it, these two guys were on a bye weekend following a miserable first half of the Highlanders’ season. Yet they wanted to play club rugby.

I now understand why. It’s a release. Professional rugby is hard. It’s a slog. It’s mentally and physically demanding. You never get to relax. Even straight after a game, you are constantly on the recovery treadmill, drinking this vitamin potion, doing this, doing that….

Today’s professional player is never exposed to rugby’s true spirit – the one that pulses through the clubs of Queenstown and all through our rural heartlands and urban cities.

And it’s a shame on two counts.

Firstly, I think there’s a direct link to the increasing number of pro rugby players getting in trouble and the fact they don’t have an anchor like club rugby in their life. Secondly, they are often lesser rugby players for not playing for clubs.

When I was at the Saracens in the UK, there was a gifted young player whom they weren’t sure about. They rated him but told me his skills would occasionally let him down, that he could go missing at certain times in games.

I said: “Look he just needs to play some rugby”.

Like so many good young players around the world, he’d never been exposed to club rugby. He had been signed into an academy as a kid, and spent more time in the gym than on a rugby field because these academy teams just don’t play much rugby.

He came to Christchurch for a season to play for the Sumner club. He spent a year playing week-in, week-out, through injury and having to front up to tough bar stewards time after time with no excuses accepted. He went back to England and was a starting winger for Saracens all of last season.

Therein lies another point. Senior club rugby, at least in New Zealand, is tough. It takes courage, commitment and real team-work to get through those 80 minutes. The quality is high, the commitment unwavering. You feel a sense of ownership with your team-mates.

I haven’t been rucked as much as I was on Saturday in years. You see it coming, you know it’s going to sting but you cop it. It’s what happens when you’re on the wrong side of a ruck. That and other experiences make something of you.

And it’s those experiences, the mateship and friendships you gain that is priceless. Somehow we’ve got to find a way to keep these young men we are putting on the pro rugby treadmill tapping into that spirit.

They would be better for it. With my point now made, I will limp off to the mineral baths.

But not without reminding my old mates Horey and Woody that we won 34-24, the trophy is still ours and the bruises don’t really hurt as much as they think they do.

And, no, it wasn’t me who punched you, Horey. I’d never be that stupid.

Great article Biltong.

I think it is really applicable to Irish rugby actually, with the pro game pretty disconnected from club rugby.

Really pertinent to Wales too where we've gone from a club system to a regional one, and in doing so now see players signed to academies straight from school and if they're good enough then they go into the regional squad and rot on the bench or in the stands. If they're not good enough, ironically, then they're farmed out to the clubs below so they sometimes get more game time than the 'better' academy players who are retained in the regional squad!

The lack of money in Wales means that some are coming through and getting game time as we can't afford anyone else - the dragons broke the record twice last season by first blooding the youngest club player ever (at least in Wales) - Hallam Amos was 17 and so many days, and then Jack Dixon came in at 16 years something. The problem is that at this age they had very little club rugby under their belts, if any. Adults in muscle and bulk due to modern conditioning programmes, but vastly inferior in terms of rugby experience.

Love it.

Proper rugby.

[quote="Griff"]Really pertinent to Wales too where we've gone from a club system to a regional one, and in doing so now see players signed to academies straight from school and if they're good enough then they go into the regional squad and rot on the bench or in the stands. If they're not good enough, ironically, then they're farmed out to the clubs below so they sometimes get more game time than the 'better' academy players who are retained in the regional squad!

The lack of money in Wales means that some are coming through and getting game time as we can't afford anyone else - the dragons broke the record twice last season by first blooding the youngest club player ever (at least in Wales) - Hallam Amos was 17 and so many days, and then Jack Dixon came in at 16 years something. The problem is that at this age they had very little club rugby under their belts, if any. Adults in muscle and bulk due to modern conditioning programmes, but vastly inferior in terms of rugby experience.[/quote]




Good post Griff ... Now I just wonder why some of these young guys aren't getting game time.

But hey thats for another thread

Allty wrote:

Griff wrote:Really pertinent to Wales too where we've gone from a club system to a regional one, and in doing so now see players signed to academies straight from school and if they're good enough then they go into the regional squad and rot on the bench or in the stands. If they're not good enough, ironically, then they're farmed out to the clubs below so they sometimes get more game time than the 'better' academy players who are retained in the regional squad!

The lack of money in Wales means that some are coming through and getting game time as we can't afford anyone else - the dragons broke the record twice last season by first blooding the youngest club player ever (at least in Wales) - Hallam Amos was 17 and so many days, and then Jack Dixon came in at 16 years something. The problem is that at this age they had very little club rugby under their belts, if any. Adults in muscle and bulk due to modern conditioning programmes, but vastly inferior in terms of rugby experience.

Good post Griff ... Now I just wonder why some of these young guys aren't getting game time.

But hey thats for another thread

Griff you are right, Dixon and Amos are physically men, but thats not the reasons they aren't up to scratch IMHO, they have just been simply physically superior to all their junior competition.

The key issue's from Marshall I get is that from the age of 15 players are handpicked into regional teams and then conditioned to a standard far above the rest of the boys, this is all well and good but IMHO it rarely produces the best possible talents for senior rugby, it just gives the earliets physical maturing players the advantage from an early age!!

Really great article by Justin Marshall, reminds me why I dragged my 54 year old carcass onto pitches across Essex this season, (supporting my son through his first season was really just an excuse) and why I will try to complete another season after the summer.
It's the best game in the world, play as long as you can, you're a long time retired.

Lovely to hear about JM's fantastic experience and your continuing involvement, Jimbo - perhaps I do have another season of vets rugby in me afterall?!

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Lovely to hear about JM's fantastic experience and your continuing involvement, Jimbo - perhaps I do have another season of vets rugby in me afterall?!

Asbo, if you want to savour the exotic delights of Burnham on Crouch seconds next season get in touch nearer the time.

Allty wrote:

Griff wrote:Really pertinent to Wales too where we've gone from a club system to a regional one, and in doing so now see players signed to academies straight from school and if they're good enough then they go into the regional squad and rot on the bench or in the stands. If they're not good enough, ironically, then they're farmed out to the clubs below so they sometimes get more game time than the 'better' academy players who are retained in the regional squad!

The lack of money in Wales means that some are coming through and getting game time as we can't afford anyone else - the dragons broke the record twice last season by first blooding the youngest club player ever (at least in Wales) - Hallam Amos was 17 and so many days, and then Jack Dixon came in at 16 years something. The problem is that at this age they had very little club rugby under their belts, if any. Adults in muscle and bulk due to modern conditioning programmes, but vastly inferior in terms of rugby experience.

Good post Griff ... Now I just wonder why some of these young guys aren't getting game time.

But hey thats for another thread

Because, as I said, and as Marshall and Bluesman discuss, the best of the academy players are picked (usually the first physical developers as Bluesman points out) but they have so little proper rugby under their belts that they're not as good as those in front of them. The academy boys are often just physically mature for their age, and then have to learn it all while at the pro region. The regions are then in a difficult position as they'll sometimes feel that they're paying them and maybe don't then want to give them out to another team (albeit another team in the region) to use.

Off at a bit of a tangent now, but the problem with regional academies is that they have a start and end point. Players are meant to 'graduate' from them. At least some must be expected to progress. It's probably seen as a bit of a failure if one season the academy doesn't actually send any boys on to the full pro side. That, IMO, leads to players not quite up to scratch being sent on as they're the best (but sometimes not very good) of that year's crop. This didn't happen wit the clubs.

But anyway, we're sidetracking this post unnecessarily so apologies for that! Great post by Marshall. Club rugby is a great thing. I just wish there was a way we in Wales could successfully integrate the pro and club games, at least better than we're currently doing.

Great article. It's becoming quite rare for the top players to come back down and play at a lower level when their time at the top is over, and that's a real shame.

I once played a season in a team that featured a couple of ex Ulster players, and played against many teams with the same. The lift you got when these players walked into the dressing room was immense, it meant so much to have that quality on the pitch with you. But I don't see it happening now. 1st XV club players aren't dropping down the teams within their own club as much anymore either.

I love hearing stories like this. Fair play to Marshall and I hope it encourages other ex pro's to believe their time in the game doesn't have to be over and they can make a massive contribution to clubs.

It was in years gone by common practice for the players in Wales to retire gracefully from the top clubs and play out their time in their local club.

It seems those days have gone

Most clubs in the AP have dual registration agreements with Championship and National league teams. It does benefit the players to a) get game time and b) become more rounded individuals in a more traditional club environment.

However there are still plenty of guys who go from school, to Academy and into the A or 1st team squads without experiencing the 'club' game.

Hugo Ellis was one of those and, having represented Wasps and the Dragons, is now loving it at Rosslyn Park by all accounts.

I can only imagine the apoplexy of a Premeirship, Rabo, or Top 14 coach if one or more of their players played local club Rugby on a weekend when their pro club/franchise/region wasn't playing.

By the way, where did this article come from? it is really great.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/8606591/Marshall-Club-rugby-plays-an-important-role

Two main sites for the newspaper media are stuff.co.nz (i.e. press, dominion sunday star times) and the nzherald.

Few interesting articles lately. A bit of discussion on IRB with the visit of the current grand pooh-bah.

I liked the fact that they still ruck down in central Otago, imagine when a young Richie McCaw moved up to canterbury he must have thought this is great, you can lie on the opposition side of the ruck and they dont ruck you.

Who says you cant ruck?

I can tell you one thing, if rcking was stil legal, McCaw would have had a good number of battle scars to show his grandchildren, but alas, now it will just be a clean face, they might not even beleive he played rugby, unless of course he pulls out all those DVD's.

biltong
Thanks for putting up this article, it actually describes the essence of how New Zealanders "think" rugby and make rugby part of our lifestyle whether you live in a city or rurally, its all based on the rugby apprenticeships we do, playing at club level. you learn how to think the game , play the game and to make your next game of rugby your best, not only as an individual but also as a team.

Pleasure Laurie, when I read it there were so many hometruths in it, I thought it would be something worthwile reading.

I can tell you one thing, if rcking was stil legal, McCaw would have had a good number of battle scars to show his grandchildren, but alas, now it will just be a clean face, they might not even beleive he played rugby, unless of course he pulls out all those DVD's.

Great article, and nice to read a professional giving back to club rugby. As marshall mentions if players don't experience club rugby and go straight from school to academies they don't get that affiliation with the grass roots. I agree with Griff I wish there was a way we could amalgamate the 2 levels more!