::: Rating - Jean Pascall vs Lucian Bute ::: - Angel Heredia - "Bute PED use", info inside

My ratings - Personal opinion of what I have seen of the fighters, if you see something change - post your ratings

Technical Ability – 6 – 7.5, Bute has the Advantage here, as he’s more of a boxer and counter puncher compared to Jean, He is one the more technically correct fighters at 168-175 in the game currently - he has an excellent uppercut which is precise and accurate, he also possesses excellent speed and good power in most of his punches, most of it is due to his good technique. Pascal on the other hand is more of a one dimensional fighter, he has good technique in his power punches but his technique in the rest of his game can be questioned and I believe is one of his downfalls as a fighter.

Defence - 7-6, Bute has the advantage here, he has a good defence when he is not pressurised, however when the pressure is on his defence seems to fall apart a little bit, he uses good angles and counterpunches and decent foot movement to stay in good range. Pascal has a very basic defence, however he is able to slip the first punch from the outside as the fight wears on he tends to over reach with a lazy jab that leaves himself open and expect Bute to make good use of the counter right hook, although working with Roger Mayweather he may improve in this area.

Offence – 7.5 - 8, Advantage Bute, both fighters are pretty much even in this category, both rely on a good offence to win them fights, however its Bute who has more variety in his offence, Pascal on the other hand is more one dimensional, he throws good power hooks but struggles to fight on the inside, he often turns to rough tactics, but Bute has a very good uppercut to the body.

Footwork - 6 – 7.5, Bute has the advantage due to the technical side of his footwork He has good general movement, he finds good angles to counter his opponents, although in his recent fight vs. froch it seemed to have abandoned him. Pascal has decent footwork when it comes to closing an opponent down; he has good offensive footwork that allows him to get of power punches. Bute seems to be in more balance than Bute where-as Pascal often seems to be off balance.

Accuracy - 6 – 7.5, Bute, is accurate when in control, Great at countering. He has good crisp punches that find the target especially accurate with his favourite punch the uppercut, although he could do a lot for himself if he manages to land accurate right hook counters vs. Jean, Pascal has average accuracy. He has accurate wide hooks to the head and body but his jab accuracy is low.

Power – 7.5 – 7.5, Even, neither fighters power is devastating but is enough to hurt a world class opponent and take them out, Bute has impressive KO’s but opposition quality can be questioned, he is a good puncher but more importantly throws clean punches, he has good power over short distances as well Pascal has more of a strength relentless approach, which makes him a fighter that is hard to push back.


Speed - 6 - 8, Bute has very good speed for a guy his size. He can throw quick jabs and power punches he can also mix it up with solid uppercuts to the body on the inside, his ability to throw fast power punches make him a very dangerous opponent. Pascal although not a speed fighter, he isn't slow either for his style, he can throw quick hooks when required to do so, he can catch you when you are off guard, but again in top level he has average speed.

Versatility - 4 - 7, Bute, He is able to fight forwards with crisp punches, can also hold his ground to counter, he is able to pot shot. He is able to Box on the move and also can look to finish opponents his is a good fighter on the outside and inside, but needs to stay away from midrange vs. Pascal. Pascal is a very good mid-range fighter; he doesn’t have the best of jabs but tries to box at times, bit like Shane Mosley’s power boxing style (not saying they are on the same level)

Stamina - 4 – 6.5, Bute can go for 12, but has never really been pushed to go 12-, Big talking point is Pascal, this in my opinion is his main weak point, he starts of excellent – one of the fastest starters in the sport, but he tires, He is excellent in the first 4 round, then it’s all downhill, lot of it is down to technique, he winds up on most of his punches, which tires him out more quickly, also due to him tiring everything in his game goes downhill, his accuracy power and defence all suffer.

Heart - 5.5-6 Both men have questionable hearts, it’s not that Bute wins in this category more that Pascal loses, he gets easily deterred in his fight vs. Hopkins (2) he had him hurt last round, just didn’t seem like he wanted it, when everything is going right he is willing to give it his all, willing to go to war, but he doesn’t push himself to the limit when everything starts going wrong, he did beat Diaconu with a injured shoulder however he was in control of that fight, Bute has never really quit, but never really has shown that much heart, he didn’t look like he was going to quit vs. Froch though.

Chin - 8- 4, Pascal has an excellent chin never down amateur or pro, although Bhop really dropped him at least once in the second fight, he wasn’t really hurt, he has been hit clean by Froch many times who is a good puncher, but that didn’t really bother him, only time he gets hurt will be when he is either off balance and when he tires – which he will. Bute on the other hand doesn’t have a good chin, he has never really taken a good punch, he has never been able to go to war, people point to guys like khan for a bad chin, but with AK, he is able to go to war, only certain punches get to him. With Bute he didn’t react very well at all to Froch’s punches, which wasn’t all that powerful in the first place, they were punches thrown in a flurry.

Physical Attributes – 8 – 7, Pascal with the slight edge, Bute is able to use his jab excellently and can control the distance using his long reach and powerful counters however he is small fighting at 175 for the first time also isn’t the most physical guy in the sport either. Pascal on the other hand is a very strong fighter, he is able to push around fighters and is athletically gifted, he is able to bully his way in to positions, unlike Bute.
Some attributes are missing though such as Cut/Swelling resistance, ring IQ and Corner etc...

Overall - Pascal: 6.5 vs. Bute: 7


Prediction: Bute will box on the back foot, try to circle Pascal and outbox him, coming in for the occasional body punch, he will try to win the fight with pure boxing, however after couple of rounds Pascal will take over, he will use his power punches to get to Bute, he will drop Lucian in the around the 4th. But the inevitable will occur and from the half-way point Pascal will tire, Bute will take over again, until the last round where Pascal will make a final push to win. Scores will be close, but it will be around 115-112, but if Pascal fights the right fight and Bute decides to stay in the pocket too long, it could be an early night, Bute’s chin won’t hold up to many of Pascal’s punches. So many what if's in this fight its a 50/50 fight, neither fighter are coming in with any great form, Bute short on confidence and Pascal may have a bit of ring rust.

Tale of the tape

Jean Pascal V Lucian Bute

Record : 27-2-1 (16), 31-1 (24)

Age : 30, 33

Height : 5'10.5”, 6'1.5''

Reach : 72”, 72”

Last Opponent - UD Kuziemski, UD Grachev

Common Opponents:
Carl Froch - L - UD, L - TKO 5

Promo for the fight

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ZQzBQyswdYI

What a second rate fight.........

Bute is Slobodan Kacar reincarnated............and is just as crud...........

Pascal is ordinary.................

Hope they knock eachother out with career ending Kos............

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:What a second rate fight.........

Bute is Slobodan Kacar reincarnated............and is just as crud...........

Pascal is ordinary.................

Hope they knock eachother out with career ending Kos............

What you on about this is a good fight, neither of them are the very best, but both are still top 3 fighters of their weight class, this is a very interesting match up of styles in my opinion.

Whats with the dislike anyway for these 2.

Top 3 fighters???????????

KO-KING wrote:

Whats with the dislike anyway for these 2.

They are both Canadian and Truss is a septic.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Top 3 fighters???????????

you wouldnt rank Pascal in the top 3 at Light Heavyweight

You wouldnt rank Bute in the top 3 in Super middle (probably not he is 4th IMO, Ward, Froch, kessler then Bute)

But still good fighters

I can only see a competative fight between two very good fighters. I don't see any reason for negativity here. If either were put forward as an opponent to Cleverly, I'd be man sausage a hoop saying this is what we have been asking for over the last two years.

Yeah, this is a good fight. Depsite Trussmans inexplicable disgust?

I think PAscal wins by KO, providing his injuries haven't taken their toll. But will be stepping up in weight and isn't used to being hit by 175 pounders. Also, Bute has fought just once since the Froch demolition and he looked very hittable against an average opponent. Pascal has that ambush style. I see him tagging Bute with something clean, wobbling him and diving in for the finish.

Bute isn't a very good fighter...............

Guys like Sergio Martinez, Hatton and Canelo are very good..

Bute is ordinary............

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Bute isn't a very good fighter...............

Guys like Sergio Martinez, Hatton and Canelo are very good..

Bute is ordinary............

Bute may be ordinary, but this is still a good fight between two styles that match up well.

Gatti versus Ward was pretty much a fight between two club fighters. I don't see many people complaining about that trilogy

I enjoyed the trilogy................and at least they could take a punch.......

Should be a decent scrap this one and whilst it doesn't sort out the very best in the division it is competitive and involves two guys regarded to be Top 10 fighters in their respective divisions....absolutely nothing to complain about and something which should just be enjoyed.

They both have there weaknesses, for Bute it is obviously whether he can take a shot (which by all accounts so far he can't) ...for Pascal it's a case of him being outworked and out-hustled. As you alluded to in the OP he can become easily discouraged if things aren't going his way.

I would agree with your assessment in almost all categories, except for footwork actually. Pascal is no Ali by any stretch of the imagination but I don't actually think Bute has footwork which is any better. He is very very easy to cut off and when he is swarmed he is fairly poor at finding a way off the ropes or away from the corner. You could argue that it is more down to boxing brain but someone with even remotely decent footwork shouldn't get closed down and cut off in the manner he has at the very top.

I think this one will be a pretty entertaining affair, despite questions over Bute's chin i'm not sure Pascal is the one to test it again. I can see Lucian being wobbled a couple of times but doing enough to earn a contentious MD.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:I enjoyed the trilogy................and at least they could take a punch.......

Khan isnt elite, He cant really take a punch, you're telling me you dont enjoy his fights.

No one is saying this is a super fight, but its still a good fight vs 2 top level opponents, Pascal has beaten a guy like Dawson, Bute has beaten Bika - a guy who gave ward and calzaghe hard tough fights, ward fight could have been a draw

Khan has good feet, quick hands a good jab and is exciting to watch........

Next question..

As an aside, I love how the swear filter changed "male chicken" to "man sausage". I had to read it twice to understand it and I wrote the thing!

owen10ozzy wrote:Should be a decent scrap this one and whilst it doesn't sort out the very best in the division it is competitive and involves two guys regarded to be Top 10 fighters in their respective divisions....absolutely nothing to complain about and something which should just be enjoyed.

They both have there weaknesses, for Bute it is obviously whether he can take a shot (which by all accounts so far he can't) ...for Pascal it's a case of him being outworked and out-hustled. As you alluded to in the OP he can become easily discouraged if things aren't going his way.

I would agree with your assessment in almost all categories, except for footwork actually. Pascal is no Ali by any stretch of the imagination but I don't actually think Bute has footwork which is any better. He is very very easy to cut off and when he is swarmed he is fairly poor at finding a way off the ropes or away from the corner. You could argue that it is more down to boxing brain but someone with even remotely decent footwork shouldn't get closed down and cut off in the manner he has at the very top.

I think this one will be a pretty entertaining affair, despite questions over Bute's chin i'm not sure Pascal is the one to test it again. I can see Lucian being wobbled a couple of times but doing enough to earn a contentious MD.

thats very true, but Bute has good footwork when going forward, he has good aggressive footwork, but poor defensive footwork (bit like a Prime Cotto), Pascal just can close down a little bit, cant back off either, but he has less angles to his game than Bute

What the hell is aggressive footwork..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Khan has good feet, quick hands a good jab and is exciting to watch........

Next question..

bute has quick hands not as quick but has power aswell, so does pascal

can you list your top 5 at 168 and 175,

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:What the hell is aggressive footwork..

I couldnt be bothered putting it into a sentence so just used that instead, what i meant was footwork that is used for aggressive footwork - e.g. chavez had aggressive footwork, pep had defensive footwork.

Using footwork for primarily to set up an offensive attack - close of the ring, stalking etc...

Defensive footwork - using it to get away from someone, avoid engaging e.g. Floyd vs Baldimor

I have a top 3 at 168...The rest are crud...

Ward.Froch....Kessler..

As for Pascal anyone that loses to a 48 year old well..........say no more.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:I enjoyed the trilogy................and at least they could take a punch.......

Ha, ok.

KO-KING wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:I enjoyed the trilogy................and at least they could take a punch.......

Khan isnt elite, He cant really take a punch, you're telling me you dont enjoy his fights.

No one is saying this is a super fight, but its still a good fight vs 2 top level opponents, Pascal has beaten a guy like Dawson, Bute has beaten Bika - a guy who gave ward and calzaghe hard tough fights, ward fight could have been a draw

Khan has been top flight and has beaten better fighters than Bute..........

No comparison Mate..

Anybody seen Ghosty........lately??

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Anybody seen Ghosty........lately??

Gordy's bedroom, last i heard, they were having an affair.

AlexHuckerby wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Anybody seen Ghosty........lately??

Gordy's bedroom, last i heard, they were having an affair.

Coxy is watching it on his webcam

Seanusarrilius wrote:

AlexHuckerby wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Anybody seen Ghosty........lately??

Gordy's bedroom, last i heard, they were having an affair.

Coxy is watching it on his webcam

This is getting kinky.

Seriously I do miss Ghosty's input...Knew his stuff........

shame he's gone..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Seriously I do miss Ghosty's input...Knew his stuff........

shame he's gone..

You stated on here the other day he chose to leave for life as he got a 2 day ban. So no need to ask where he went is there. Anyway, keep it for your journal. This thread is about Pascal and Bute

Calm down dear..

Pascal has hired Memo Heredia and, despite intimations they are adhering to a testing programme, the details have been kept under wraps and Heredia refuses to be drawn on the matter (Victor Conte is always badgering him about it on Twitter).

I think you see Pascal hitting harder and his stamina issues suddenly disappearing.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
Khan has been top flight and has beaten better fighters than Bute..........

No comparison Mate..

I wasn't comparing the fighters resume's, but rather pointing out the fact, you emphasized the fact 'atleast they could take a punch', It would seem that you were implying they were entertaining because of their good chins

hazharrison wrote:Pascal has hired Memo Heredia and, despite intimations they are adhering to a testing programme, the details have been kept under wraps and Heredia refuses to be drawn on the matter (Victor Conte is always badgering him about it on Twitter).

I think you see Pascal hitting harder and his stamina issues suddenly disappearing.

Memo said himself he still has 20 PED's that are undetectable to any Tests

KO-KING wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
Khan has been top flight and has beaten better fighters than Bute..........

No comparison Mate..

I wasn't comparing the fighters resume's, but rather pointing out the fact, you emphasized the fact 'atleast they could take a punch', It would seem that you were implying they were entertaining because of their good chins

Khan's chin is irrelevant he has huge assets to counter act that problem...........world class jab, speed and decent power...........

Bute has none of these things.

KO-KING wrote:

hazharrison wrote:Pascal has hired Memo Heredia and, despite intimations they are adhering to a testing programme, the details have been kept under wraps and Heredia refuses to be drawn on the matter (Victor Conte is always badgering him about it on Twitter).

I think you see Pascal hitting harder and his stamina issues suddenly disappearing.

Memo said himself he still has 20 PED's that are undetectable to any Tests

He's a scourge on the sport that guy. Laughing all the way to the bank.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

KO-KING wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
Khan has been top flight and has beaten better fighters than Bute..........

No comparison Mate..

I wasn't comparing the fighters resume's, but rather pointing out the fact, you emphasized the fact 'atleast they could take a punch', It would seem that you were implying they were entertaining because of their good chins

Khan's chin is irrelevant he has huge assets to counter act that problem...........world class jab, speed and decent power...........

Bute has none of these things.

WHAT, Bute's Power > Khans Power, Khan has average power, enough to get him respect, Bute has enough power to hurt people, also Bute has got good hand speed for a big guy (Not Khan level - but who has)

Bute Injured - fight postponed

"I am very disappointed by this injury. I have never been in better shape," Bute said. "My preparation was ahead of schedule until late last week. The fans that paid high ticket prices to see me in action against Pascal deserve to see both boxers at their best. Unfortunately, I would be far from my best in my present state. For my own good, I have to take the advice of my doctor and (will) undergo this operation. I feel very sad for the fans."

http://espn.go.com/boxing/story/_/id...ht-jean-pascal

I'm not too concerned about this fight being postponed. I really don't rate either fighter highly, both wouldn't make my current top 10 of SMW/LH.

Think the fascination is with Froch defeating both of these fighters in his career which adds to the British appeal. Truthfully though, Bute was appaling against Froch and the same can be said for Pascal against Hopkins.

C+ fighters.

Who would be in your 10 above these 2 across 2 divisions?

In no particulat order...
Dawson
Ward
Froch
Kessler
Hopkins
Cleverley
Cloud.. ten is a stretch

kingraf wrote:In no particulat order...
Dawson
Ward
Froch
Kessler
Hopkins
Cleverley
Cloud.. ten is a stretch

At present, and a personal view point only, I'd take Pascal and Bute to beat Cleverly, but spot on with the rest. So I'd put them easily in the top ten for both weights. Now any time two real top ten contenders fight (as opposed to those with trumped up wins) then I'm happy.

kingraf wrote:In no particulat order...
Dawson
Ward
Froch
Kessler
Hopkins
Cleverley
Cloud.. ten is a stretch

Cloud isnt as good as Pascal or Bute, Pascal did Beat Dawson, whether he can repeat that is another thing. I really wouldn't pick Clev over them aswell. At Light heavy I have Pascal 3rd and at super middle I have Bute 4.

In my opinion Good fight between to B level Fighters

In no order, for me these fighters have more talent:

Froch
Kessler
Dawson
Hopkins
Dirrell
Cleverly
Degale
Groves
Cloud
Shumenov
Ward

Maybe on par with the likes of Bellew and Chilemba...

Struggle to see how deGale, Groves and Cleverly have displayed more talent than Bute or Pascal.

Instead of knocking Bute, why not praise Froch for a great performance.

Had Foreman and Frazier been around now, you guys would have called Frazier a B or C level fighter for the way he was bounced about by George.

Hoping Tommy Oosthuizen gets a shot at a big title this year, Southpaw 6'4, fast hands, good chin. Spoke to him a while back (his alma mater and my old school are regular rugby and cricket rivals). Amped for a big challenge after his fight in the States

kingraf wrote:Hoping Tommy Oosthuizen gets a shot at a big title this year, Southpaw 6'4, fast hands, good chin. Spoke to him a while back (his alma mater and my old school are regular rugby and cricket rivals). Amped for a big challenge after his fight in the States

Is he any good? I hear good things about him. I hear good things about many boxers until they step up and get found out.

Keeps his pretty low, and doesnt yet have KO power. But he is genuinely fast and that chin keeps him up. Two years ago, I would say the hype was unjustified, but he is as good as any. non-Olympic fighter with 22 fights to his name. He would probably lose to Ward (for now), but I think he can beat every one else. Plus he is only getting better. If he can remember to keep those hands up, I dont think theres a SMW that can get him

kingraf wrote:Keeps his pretty low, and doesnt yet have KO power. But he is genuinely fast and that chin keeps him up. Two years ago, I would say the hype was unjustified, but he is as good as any. non-Olympic fighter with 22 fights to his name. He would probably lose to Ward (for now), but I think he can beat every one else. Plus he is only getting better. If he can remember to keep those hands up, I dont think theres a SMW that can get him

Who wouldn't lose to Ward?