has it calmed down yet...

by sirBiggles Wed 01 May 2013, 2:17 pm

... as predicted the board has gone mental over the 2013 Lions selections...

But for my pennies worth...

1. Matt Stevens selection totally baffling.
2. No surprise over Farrell selection. Not my choice, as I don't think he is good enough on the international scene. Would have probably gone for Biggar myself.
3. Very surprised only 2 Flyhalfs, and question how you can play 2 games a week (test games later on tour) with only 2 fly halfs. Personally don't think Wilko should be there, he's the past not the future, but I can see why he has been mentioned. I personally think Gats will give him another chance and if he turns it down, I can see Hook being called up as Fly Half cover as he can also cover other positions.
4. Cant see how Hartley is there, especially over Best.
5. As for the back row, I actually think Gats has it right, and also think Lydiate is a good punt. He may have ben injured most the season, but was the standout 6 last year. Reckon he'll get his game time mid week and by the time the tests come, he'll be more than ready to do a job.
6. Warbs as captain... No surprise, and actually think it a good call. Others have said BOD or POC, but can either of those be guaranteed a test spot. I don't think so. POC is back from injury the same as Lydiate, so why everyone is on Lydiate's back yet not POC I'm not sure. Ok POC has played some HC games, but does that line him up for a shoe in and hence captaincy material. I don't thnk so. My only concern with Warbs being captain is that Tuperic may suffer and not get a Test spot. I think Tips has the edge on Warbs at the moment, yet play them at 6 & 7... They did a job on the English Slam hopefuls...

Anyway, that's my take on the side...

It was always going to have posters "slagging" it off... Lets wait and see how it pans out... I reckon it could be a Lions series win, whether it could be 3-0 I'm not sure.

.............

Sorry I started a new thread, just there is so much negativity in the established ones...

by SecretFly Wed 01 May 2013, 2:31 pm

Just when I was beginning to calm down!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Wink

... BOD? A player not guaranteed a test spot?
Who is?
Have you been watching him close out the season? Is he there to chaperone the mid-week no-hopers? He had a long chat with Gatland before the tour I hear. I'd guess one of his questions was "What's my role? My role will decide my availability." (like Wilkinson hinted at)
He's already had enough holidays down South. He isn't going for the sun. He's going with the intention of playing test rugby. All of them are. Time will decide.

by majesticimperialman Wed 01 May 2013, 2:33 pm

sirBiggles

Agree with most of what you say, especialy about Matt Stevens? big question mark on that one...Re Hartley? again why? very surpising too me.

Also Gethin Jenkins? Agian why? he is not even first choice for his club side, so why take him instead Andrew Sheridan WHO IS first choice for his club side.

Also my biggest grip of all is (Sam Warburton) as Captain.

He was captain of Wales when they lost 8 games on the trot, he lost the captaincy too Ryan Jones who turned Wales around and Wales started (winning games) he (Warburton) did not want the captaincy during the (LAST GAME) OF THE 6N Wales v England. So again why make him captain of the Lions.

by Guest Wed 01 May 2013, 2:36 pm

Ryan Jones didn't turn Wales round on his own Madge, nor did Sam lose games on his own.

I don't think it would've made any difference who was captain of Wales. They would still have lost most if not all of those games.

by bsando Wed 01 May 2013, 2:38 pm

Pretty sure they only have 2 fly halves because they think Hogg could start at 10 if required. Hogg himself has said he is willing to play in any position Gatland and co want him to, and that he has the experience in that position from pre Glasgow.

I think its a good idea personally, it means Sexton and Farrell can get more game time and Hogg is there to step in if need be. It may well also expand Hogg's game and make him a more versatile player for Scotland.

Gatland and co said they considered 12trees and Hook but opted for Hogg as he has the "x factor" and he impressed them during the 6N. I'm sure many will not like this decision, its risky, but I understand the thinking behind it.

by RuggerRadge2611 Wed 01 May 2013, 3:15 pm

Gatland has really backed himself into a corner with the selection. Lydiate will be a dirt tracker as it stands.

If Gatland has intentions of starting Warbs at 7 instead of Tipuric he needs to lay of Matt Stevens' Merchandise, because that would be mental!

What happens if Lydiate hits scintilating form as does Tipuric? Where will captain Warburton play????

chin

by sirBiggles Wed 01 May 2013, 3:16 pm

SecretFly wrote:
... BOD? A player not guaranteed a test spot?
Who is?
Have you been watching him close out the season? Is he there to chaperone the mid-week no-hopers? He had a long chat with Gatland before the tour I hear. I'd guess one of his questions was "What's my role? My role will decide my availability." (like Wilkinson hinted at)
He's already had enough holidays down South. He isn't going for the sun. He's going with the intention of playing test rugby. All of them are. Time will decide.

Agree, no one is going there for a holiday, they will all want to make the test jersey their own. But, I just think that BOD has put his body on the line for so long now, he isn't the form he used to be... He has said himself, "it now hurts".. and I don't think he'll be able to maintain the intensity needed for such a long tour after a long season. Hope I'm wrong, would love to see him retire with the accolades he deserves, but I would also like to see him retire in one piece.

majesticimperialman wrote:

Also my biggest grip of all is (Sam Warburton) as Captain.

He was captain of Wales when they lost 8 games on the trot, he lost the captaincy too Ryan Jones who turned Wales around and Wales started (winning games) he (Warburton) did not want the captaincy during the (LAST GAME) OF THE 6N Wales v England. So again why make him captain of the Lions.

He also captained them to the 2012 Grand Slam after a good run in the RWC. He also has the professional demeanour needed to Capt the Lions, as he conducts himself off the field impeccably (doesn't drink I believe... or at least not when playing). My only concern is whether his own game may suffer due to the captaincy.

Risca Rev wrote:Ryan Jones didn't turn Wales round on his own Madge, nor did Sam lose games on his own.

I don't think it would've made any difference who was captain of Wales. They would still have lost most if not all of those games.

Agree Rev... I have to feel sorry for Ryan though. He is a victim of being a great all round player, but not one who is first choice at any particular position these days. He would have made a great captain, but would you play him in the second row or back row ahead of the others... Nope..

bsando wrote:Pretty sure they only have 2 fly halves because they think Hogg could start at 10 if required. Hogg himself has said he is willing to play in any position Gatland and co want him to, and that he has the experience in that position from pre Glasgow.

I think its a good idea personally, it means Sexton and Farrell can get more game time and Hogg is there to step in if need be. It may well also expand Hogg's game and make him a more versatile player for Scotland.

Gatland and co said they considered 12trees and Hook but opted for Hogg as he has the "x factor" and he impressed them during the 6N. I'm sure many will not like this decision, its risky, but I understand the thinking behind it.

Hogg playing at 10 could be a disaster waiting to happen. I don't actually agree though with taking 2 means Sexton and Farrell get more game time, as you need 2 10s per game... Are you saying that these guys play nearly every game... Actually think this a bad idea. However, I also think that they will go with another 10, but Gats is waiting on Wilko to say yes (again wrong selection IMO, but can understand why).

As for Hogg having the "x factor" what does that mean... He's going to lead the singing on the bus ?

Anyone worked out who's the youngest yet... They got real responsibility of looking after the Lion (mascot).. Think that is Hogg thumbsup

by sirBiggles Wed 01 May 2013, 3:17 pm

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Gatland has really backed himself into a corner with the selection. Lydiate will be a dirt tracker as it stands.

If Gatland has intentions of starting Warbs at 7 instead of Tipuric he needs to lay of Matt Stevens' Merchandise, because that would be mental!

What happens if Lydiate hits scintilating form as does Tipuric? Where will captain Warburton play????

Dare I say, he'll have an injury similar to the one he sustained in this years 6 Nations... Whistle

by RubyGuby Wed 01 May 2013, 3:21 pm

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Gatland has really backed himself into a corner with the selection. Lydiate will be a dirt tracker as it stands.

If Gatland has intentions of starting Warbs at 7 instead of Tipuric he needs to lay of Matt Stevens' Merchandise, because that would be mental!

What happens if Lydiate hits scintilating form as does Tipuric? Where will captain Warburton play????

He'll move to Number 8 thumbsup

by RuggerRadge2611 Wed 01 May 2013, 3:24 pm

Ok I'll try to say this as clearly as I can. I think Warburton is not even the best backrow forward in Wales let alone the best backrow forward in the whole of England, Ireland, Wales and Scotland.

A fully fit and functioning backrow for Wales would probably consist of Lydiate or Jones at 6, Tipuric at 7 and Faleteu at 8. Which makes Warburtons selection at captain all the more baffling and just makes Gatland look entrenched and belligerent.

by sirBiggles Wed 01 May 2013, 3:25 pm

RubyGuby wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Gatland has really backed himself into a corner with the selection. Lydiate will be a dirt tracker as it stands.

If Gatland has intentions of starting Warbs at 7 instead of Tipuric he needs to lay of Matt Stevens' Merchandise, because that would be mental!

What happens if Lydiate hits scintilating form as does Tipuric? Where will captain Warburton play????

He'll move to Number 8

Ousting Toby.. That's a joke.... right Erm

by RubyGuby Wed 01 May 2013, 3:28 pm

Yeah - well done Biggs thumbsup

by sirBiggles Wed 01 May 2013, 3:30 pm

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Ok I'll try to say this as clearly as I can. I think Warburton is not even the best backrow forward in Wales let alone the best backrow forward in the whole of England, Ireland, Wales and Scotland.

A fully fit and functioning backrow for Wales would probably consist of Lydiate or Jones at 6, Tipuric at 7 and Faleteu at 8. Which makes Warburtons selection at captain all the more baffling and just makes Gatland look entrenched and belligerent.

Sorry RR, don't agree with that...

You just have to look at his game stats over the games he played in this years 6 Nations, against his opposite numbers, to see he is a quality back rower, whether at 7 or 6 (as played against England). I accept Tips may just pip him, but that is just down to the way Tips plays, he could play just about anywhere on the park. Which could be the solution for the lack of fly half cover... Tuperic for 10... Yahoo

by sirBiggles Wed 01 May 2013, 3:31 pm

RubyGuby wrote:Yeah - well done Biggs

Phew... thought you had an insight into Gats thought process ... Very Happy

by ChequeredJersey Wed 01 May 2013, 4:52 pm

SecretFly wrote:Just when I was beginning to calm down!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

... BOD? A player not guaranteed a test spot?
Who is?
Have you been watching him close out the season? Is he there to chaperone the mid-week no-hopers? He had a long chat with Gatland before the tour I hear. I'd guess one of his questions was "What's my role? My role will decide my availability." (like Wilkinson hinted at)
He's already had enough holidays down South. He isn't going for the sun. He's going with the intention of playing test rugby. All of them are. Time will decide.

Please let the centres be BOD and Manu. Or possible BOD and JD2. As much as I respect Roberts and think he was great with BOD last tour, I do not think he is well-designed for this challenge

by RubyGuby Wed 01 May 2013, 6:03 pm

Yeah - what we need is the vision; distribution and general all round game awareness of Tuilangi in the centre thumbsup

by ChequeredJersey Wed 01 May 2013, 6:04 pm

RubyGuby wrote:Yeah - what we need is the vision; distribution and general all round game awareness of Tuilangi in the centre

Good point, it would be far better to have the expansive game of Roberts and the passing ability of JD2

Hug

by bsando Wed 01 May 2013, 6:06 pm

sirBiggles wrote:

bsando wrote:Pretty sure they only have 2 fly halves because they think Hogg could start at 10 if required. Hogg himself has said he is willing to play in any position Gatland and co want him to, and that he has the experience in that position from pre Glasgow.

I think its a good idea personally, it means Sexton and Farrell can get more game time and Hogg is there to step in if need be. It may well also expand Hogg's game and make him a more versatile player for Scotland.

Gatland and co said they considered 12trees and Hook but opted for Hogg as he has the "x factor" and he impressed them during the 6N. I'm sure many will not like this decision, its risky, but I understand the thinking behind it.

Hogg playing at 10 could be a disaster waiting to happen. I don't actually agree though with taking 2 means Sexton and Farrell get more game time, as you need 2 10s per game... Are you saying that these guys play nearly every game... Actually think this a bad idea. However, I also think that they will go with another 10, but Gats is waiting on Wilko to say yes (again wrong selection IMO, but can understand why).

As for Hogg having the "x factor" what does that mean... He's going to lead the singing on the bus ?

Anyone worked out who's the youngest yet... They got real responsibility of looking after the Lion (mascot).. Think that is Hogg

Yeah Hogg is the youngest, he'll have the mascot.. big responsibility! Very Happy

Heres the info from Howley.. I like his thinking personally, its brave and could ultimately be a very good move....

Rob Howley praised Stuart Hogg's "creative X-factor" as he said he would have no qualms playing the youngster at fly-half during the Lions Tour of Australia.

The 20-year-old was selected ahead of James Hook and Billy Twelvetrees to be the Lions' utility back, having played at outside centre this season for Glasgow and fly-half at junior level.

And Hogg, who is the youngest player named in the 37-man squad, has never played in the position for Glasgow but will provide the fly-half back-up to Jonathan Sexton and Owen Farrell on the 10-match Lions tour.

Backs coach Howley said: "James Hook was called up in 2009 as a utility player and we discussed Billy Twelvetrees, who was in the mix, but we have been so impressed with Stuart Hogg in terms of his playing 15 and 13 with Glasgow and we think he has that ability to play 10.

"One thing about the Lions is you give players that opportunity and you just don't know. Stuart is a utility player who has a creative X-factor about him."

The Lions have chosen a utility back as their third fly-half, wanting to give Sexton and Farrell as much preparation time as possible before the Test series.

"You need the 10s to have game time. It is so important for a 10 to have time in combination with the scrum half as well," Howley said.

"If you have another 10 you are possibly taking time away from the two 10s who have been selected. That was a key discussion.

"It will mean them backing up (from Saturday to midweek games) and maybe Stuart Hogg will be stepping into that position."

by ChequeredJersey Wed 01 May 2013, 6:08 pm

Gutsy situation to debut a player at fly-half! Great for Scotland if it happens and subsequently works though

by bsando Wed 01 May 2013, 6:28 pm

Yeah I think so too. Its the sort of decision that could result in the Lions winning their first tour in over a decade. The back three has some very versatile players in Maitland, Hogg, Halfpenny and Bowe. Imagine this for a lineup...

9. Murray
10. Hogg
11. Bowe
12. Tulilagi
13. BOD
14. Maitland
15. 1/2p

That, in my view, would test the Wallabies big time. All of those players are fast, have good handling skills and can attack very effectively...

hmm perhaps I have underestimated the potential of this Lions squad. Will have to see I guess Very Happy

by ChequeredJersey Wed 01 May 2013, 6:38 pm

Murray over Youngs the thing I'd question there. And no North is an error- he may be big but he can handle too when he's allowed to. And I'd swap BOD and Manu. But I also think the backline won't look much like that at all

by offload Wed 01 May 2013, 6:40 pm

ChequeredJersey wrote:Please let the centres be BOD and Manu. Or possible BOD and JD2. As much as I respect Roberts and think he was great with BOD last tour, I do not think he is well-designed for this challenge

I'm not sure Roberts and BOD can revive the fantastic partnership of 4 years ago. Could BOD play 12 with Davies outside him?

by ChequeredJersey Wed 01 May 2013, 6:41 pm

offload wrote:
ChequeredJersey wrote:Please let the centres be BOD and Manu. Or possible BOD and JD2. As much as I respect Roberts and think he was great with BOD last tour, I do not think he is well-designed for this challenge

I'm not sure Roberts and BOD can revive the fantastic partnership of 4 years ago. Could BOD play 12 with Davies outside him?

Davies has played at 12 a fair bit

by offload Wed 01 May 2013, 6:44 pm

ChequeredJersey wrote:
offload wrote:
ChequeredJersey wrote:Please let the centres be BOD and Manu. Or possible BOD and JD2. As much as I respect Roberts and think he was great with BOD last tour, I do not think he is well-designed for this challenge

I'm not sure Roberts and BOD can revive the fantastic partnership of 4 years ago. Could BOD play 12 with Davies outside him?

Davies has played at 12 a fair bit

True - unfortunately Roberts is another of Gatland's favs and if he's breathing he'll probably play him.

by sirBiggles Wed 01 May 2013, 6:59 pm

Bowe, like Lydiate and POC is another player, who's past reputation out strips recent form, as he is another one coming back from long term injury.

I'm not saying Bowe wont step up and deliver, just pointing out, in Lydiate's defence, as there have been so many saying he should not be there as he hasn't played a great deal this season. He's not on his own...

I actually think North, Cuthbert and Halfpenny will be the back 3. Size, strength and all of them potent finishers.

BOD maybe, although I said earlier, I'm not sure his body will cope with the length of the tour.

Tuilagi hasn't convinced me.

Sexton a cert for 10.

Mike Phillips will start at 9. His strength and ability to get under the opponents skin (like any good 9 should) being his pluses...

by flyhalffactory Wed 01 May 2013, 7:39 pm

The eagerly awaited visit to South Africa by touring teams; Italy, Samoa and Scotland, will form a South African Quadrangular Tournament, and for Samoa a warm-up fixture against the Golden Lions a week before their test against Scotland.

Round 1

8 June 2013
15:00 SAST (UTC+02)
Samoa v Scotland
Mr Price Kings Park, Durban
Referee: Ireland John Lacey (Ireland)

17:00 SAST (UTC+02)
South Africa v Italy
Mr Price Kings Park, Durban
Referee: France Pascal Gaüzère (France)

Round 2

15 June 2013
15:00 SAST (UTC+02)
Samoa v Italy
Mbombela Stadium, Nelspruit
Referee: South Africa Craig Joubert (South Africa)

17:00 SAST (UTC+02)
South Africa v Scotland
Mbombela Stadium, Nelspruit
Referee: France Romain Poite (France)

Finals

3rd v 4th Match

22 June 2013
15:00 SAST (UTC+02)
Loftus Versfeld, Pretoria
Referee: France Pascal Gaüzère (France)

1st v 2nd Match

22 June 2013
17:00 SAST (UTC+02)
Loftus Versfeld, Pretoria
Referee: Ireland John Lacey (Ireland)

This is going to be an awesome tournament against the 2nd ranked nation and Samoa and with Italy improving year on year it will be a fantastic yardstick for the NH form players (in their position) of Grant Barclay Brown Beattie Scott Visser along with the exciting young talent such as Swinson, Ryder, Horne, Dunbar, Tonks to push the likes of Gray Maitland Hogg who will be touring this summer with the Lions. Along with the probable appointment of Johnson and a first look at forwards coach Humphries who has done wonders with the Ospreys pack its going to bode well for Scotland as a nation going into the Autumn Tours and 2014 6Ns. Word on the street is SA are treating this summer very seriously and are encouraging the visiting nations to do like-wise, so for us this cannae be viewed as a development session but more to consolidate the on-going improvement to the 2012 6Ns standing and our success against SH sides.

Looking ahead to a potentially fantastic summer tournament during June and of course the Lions series that is alongside

by 100%beefy Wed 01 May 2013, 8:14 pm

is Kelly Brown going?

by Breadvan Wed 01 May 2013, 9:51 pm

sirBiggles wrote:Bowe, like Lydiate and POC is another player, who's past reputation out strips recent form, as he is another one coming back from long term injury.

I'm not saying Bowe wont step up and deliver, just pointing out, in Lydiate's defence, as there have been so many saying he should not be there as he hasn't played a great deal this season. He's not on his own...

I actually think North, Cuthbert and Halfpenny will be the back 3. Size, strength and all of them potent finishers.

BOD maybe, although I said earlier, I'm not sure his body will cope with the length of the tour.

Tuilagi hasn't convinced me.

Sexton a cert for 10.

Mike Phillips will start at 9. His strength and ability to get under the opponents skin (like any good 9 should) being his pluses...

Phillips will start because Gotland throws rose petals at his feet. Whereas youngs has had Australia in his pocket most of the time.

by flyhalffactory Thu 02 May 2013, 12:08 am

100%beefy wrote:is Kelly Brown going?

Well you would be 100% insane not to take the most on form 6 in the northern hemisphere on a southern hemisphere tour........... don't you agree 100%

by 100%beefy Thu 02 May 2013, 1:58 am

flyhalffactory wrote:
100%beefy wrote:is Kelly Brown going?

Well you would be 100% insane not to take the most on form 6 in the northern hemisphere on a southern hemisphere tour........... don't you agree 100%

if you're backing him i suggest he books a long holiday!

by thebluesmancometh Thu 02 May 2013, 8:40 am

Breadvan wrote:
sirBiggles wrote:Bowe, like Lydiate and POC is another player, who's past reputation out strips recent form, as he is another one coming back from long term injury.

I'm not saying Bowe wont step up and deliver, just pointing out, in Lydiate's defence, as there have been so many saying he should not be there as he hasn't played a great deal this season. He's not on his own...

I actually think North, Cuthbert and Halfpenny will be the back 3. Size, strength and all of them potent finishers.

BOD maybe, although I said earlier, I'm not sure his body will cope with the length of the tour.

Tuilagi hasn't convinced me.

Sexton a cert for 10.

Mike Phillips will start at 9. His strength and ability to get under the opponents skin (like any good 9 should) being his pluses...

Phillips will start because Gotland throws rose petals at his feet. Whereas youngs has had Australia in his pocket most of the time.

See now I don't understand comments like this, Phillips despite his faults was one of the standout 9's this year with the likes of Laidlaw and Care, Youngs and Murray have been pretty poor, so how exactly does form years previous count for him? I personally would take Youngs for his potential (althout I think he'll get more out of this tour than offers) with Phillips and Laidlaw.

by Breadvan Thu 02 May 2013, 9:11 am

Bluesman.....it's just me mate. I just don't rate him at all. Erm

by R!skysports Thu 02 May 2013, 9:25 am

thebluesmancometh wrote:
Breadvan wrote:
sirBiggles wrote:Bowe, like Lydiate and POC is another player, who's past reputation out strips recent form, as he is another one coming back from long term injury.

I'm not saying Bowe wont step up and deliver, just pointing out, in Lydiate's defence, as there have been so many saying he should not be there as he hasn't played a great deal this season. He's not on his own...

I actually think North, Cuthbert and Halfpenny will be the back 3. Size, strength and all of them potent finishers.

BOD maybe, although I said earlier, I'm not sure his body will cope with the length of the tour.

Tuilagi hasn't convinced me.

Sexton a cert for 10.

Mike Phillips will start at 9. His strength and ability to get under the opponents skin (like any good 9 should) being his pluses...

Phillips will start because Gotland throws rose petals at his feet. Whereas youngs has had Australia in his pocket most of the time.

See now I don't understand comments like this, Phillips despite his faults was one of the standout 9's this year with the likes of Laidlaw and Care, Youngs and Murray have been pretty poor, so how exactly does form years previous count for him? I personally would take Youngs for his potential (althout I think he'll get more out of this tour than offers) with Phillips and Laidlaw.

Actually up until the last match most people were calling for Philips to be dropped - he was poor in the first few games (read the threads during the 6 nations). He had a good game at the end, and as such people now say he was in excellent form

I also agree that all the 9's struggled this year and there were NO outstanding ones

by thebluesmancometh Thu 02 May 2013, 9:28 am

Breadvan wrote:Bluesman.....it's just me mate. I just don't rate him at all.

Your not alone, he isn't the most talented 9 in the world, but part of that is out of his hands, no welsh 9 can shine when ball is slow, build up is pretty slow, and the whole gameplan is based around structured forward pods and sheer brutality!!!

What he tends to attract is criticism for things he has no control over, people love to comment on Genia outplaying him in the first summer test, but Wales had clearly lost the breakdown battle in that game and had no real quality posession to play with, Genia's try coming from catching Jones outside shoulder and putting Hook on his bum.

He also get criticised for being an extra flanker, despite his key try scoring rate, and linebreak abilities, all 9's get scragged trying to dart around the fringes, the difference is Phillips goes over the gameline and sets a platform.

Another criticism he gets is his boxkicking, but he has clearly been given instructions to kick long from defencive positions, as do RP, 1/2p and Biggar who all kick long and infield, Phillips however gets more height and similar distance allowing our defencive line more time to rush up.

All in all I'm not his biggest fan either, but from what Gatland wants he does to a tee, and in that respect is ahead of Youngs and Murray for the test jersey.

by thebluesmancometh Thu 02 May 2013, 9:30 am

Riskysports wrote:
thebluesmancometh wrote:
Breadvan wrote:
sirBiggles wrote:Bowe, like Lydiate and POC is another player, who's past reputation out strips recent form, as he is another one coming back from long term injury.

I'm not saying Bowe wont step up and deliver, just pointing out, in Lydiate's defence, as there have been so many saying he should not be there as he hasn't played a great deal this season. He's not on his own...

I actually think North, Cuthbert and Halfpenny will be the back 3. Size, strength and all of them potent finishers.

BOD maybe, although I said earlier, I'm not sure his body will cope with the length of the tour.

Tuilagi hasn't convinced me.

Sexton a cert for 10.

Mike Phillips will start at 9. His strength and ability to get under the opponents skin (like any good 9 should) being his pluses...

Phillips will start because Gotland throws rose petals at his feet. Whereas youngs has had Australia in his pocket most of the time.

See now I don't understand comments like this, Phillips despite his faults was one of the standout 9's this year with the likes of Laidlaw and Care, Youngs and Murray have been pretty poor, so how exactly does form years previous count for him? I personally would take Youngs for his potential (althout I think he'll get more out of this tour than offers) with Phillips and Laidlaw.

Actually up until the last match most people were calling for Philips to be dropped - he was poor in the first few games (read the threads during the 6 nations). He had a good game at the end, and as such people now say he was in excellent form

I also agree that all the 9's struggled this year and there were NO outstanding ones

Disagree, Laidlaw and Care were good when given the chance. And I also stated before the England game that he had scarily become one of our most important players, takes the pressure off the 10, keeps defences incredibly honest, and is the total pack organiser in attack!!

by RubyGuby Thu 02 May 2013, 10:23 am

Its funny reading the bitterness over the past few days when the only real concerns are Hartley and Stevens. It's ironic how when Wales won the Grand Slam in 2005 the Lions management in their "wisdom" decided to take 20 englishmen - yes 20! The rest is history as they say and apart from the ommision of Rory Best and the lack of a 3rd fly half the squad is bang on. thumbsup

by **Biltong** Thu 02 May 2013, 10:25 am

RubyGuby wrote:Its funny reading the bitterness over the past few days when the only real concerns are Hartley and Stevens. It's ironic how when Wales won the Grand Slam in 2005 the Lions management in their "wisdom" decided to take 20 englishmen - yes 20! The rest is history as they say and apart from the ommision of Rory Best and the lack of a 3rd fly half the squad is bang on.

It is human nature mate, everyone expected Gatland to select his starting XV from Wales, firstly because he coaches them/coached them, and secondly because they have been the most successful during the six nations.

Once everyone has calmed down, normal posting will proceed. Wink

Whatever normal is here on V2

by R!skysports Thu 02 May 2013, 10:27 am

RubyGuby wrote:Its funny reading the bitterness over the past few days when the only real concerns are Hartley and Stevens. It's ironic how when Wales won the Grand Slam in 2005 the Lions management in their "wisdom" decided to take 20 englishmen - yes 20! The rest is history as they say and apart from the ommision of Rory Best and the lack of a 3rd fly half the squad is bang on.

But Rugby, there is no bitterness to the Welsh - that seems to be in the mind of some posters

We are disappointed with some of the selections, and dumbfounded by others

Most of the points are about Stevens, Hartely and Lydiate as well as the possible tactics and 2 fly halfs - all very valid points

However, that seems to be enough for rabid accusations of Welsh bashing for some

by Breadvan Thu 02 May 2013, 11:13 am

Ne'er a truer word said risky. clap

by 100%beefy Thu 02 May 2013, 4:52 pm

RubyGuby wrote:Its funny reading the bitterness over the past few days when the only real concerns are Hartley and Stevens. It's ironic how when Wales won the Grand Slam in 2005 the Lions management in their "wisdom" decided to take 20 englishmen - yes 20! The rest is history as they say and apart from the ommision of Rory Best and the lack of a 3rd fly half the squad is bang on.

Ruby careful mate you can't say that it's probably sedition....knight of the realm and all that.....what you omitted from your incisive comment was that post that GS SCW stated his team would be mostly Welsh, yet the most talented centre and others couldn't get selected for love nor money...we all know how that turned out for His Tonyness.

by RubyGuby Thu 02 May 2013, 4:55 pm

100%beefy wrote:
RubyGuby wrote:Its funny reading the bitterness over the past few days when the only real concerns are Hartley and Stevens. It's ironic how when Wales won the Grand Slam in 2005 the Lions management in their "wisdom" decided to take 20 englishmen - yes 20! The rest is history as they say and apart from the ommision of Rory Best and the lack of a 3rd fly half the squad is bang on.

Ruby careful mate you can't say that it's probably sedition....knight of the realm and all that.....what you omitted from your incisive comment was that post that GS SCW stated his team would be mostly Welsh, yet the most talented centre and others couldn't get selected for love nor money...we all know how that turned out for His

Tonyness.

by 100%beefy Thu 02 May 2013, 4:57 pm

Riskysports wrote:
RubyGuby wrote:Its funny reading the bitterness over the past few days when the only real concerns are Hartley and Stevens. It's ironic how when Wales won the Grand Slam in 2005 the Lions management in their "wisdom" decided to take 20 englishmen - yes 20! The rest is history as they say and apart from the ommision of Rory Best and the lack of a 3rd fly half the squad is bang on.

But Rugby, there is no bitterness to the Welsh - that seems to be in the mind of some posters

We are disappointed with some of the selections, and dumbfounded by others

Most of the points are about Stevens, Hartely and Lydiate as well as the possible tactics and 2 fly halfs - all very valid points

However, that seems to be enough for rabid accusations of Welsh bashing for some

Gents

it is not 2 fly halves it is 3....JW was offered a choice and wisely chose Toulon and his body, but he will be on a plane have no doubt.

by SecretFly Thu 02 May 2013, 5:02 pm

JW has said Tests? - If you need me, we'll talk later. Build up games? Nope.

He's of a vintage and has enough clout to say that. I don't think he wants to do the full tour bit - seen it, done it, bought the ticket. But if Gatland is in a real fix come Test time, he'll consider it. That's what I read into Gatland and Wilkinson's comments themselves.

by 100%beefy Thu 02 May 2013, 5:08 pm

SecretFly wrote:JW has said Tests? - If you need me, we'll talk later. Build up games? Nope.

He's of a vintage and has enough clout to say that. I don't think he wants to do the full tour bit - seen it, done it, bought the ticket. But if Gatland is in a real fix come Test time, he'll consider it. That's what I read into Gatland and Wilkinson's comments themselves.

I agree, few if any player can do that but he is one....and few players are of the right mindset to deal with that mentally but he is one

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Thu 02 May 2013, 5:33 pm

sirBiggles wrote:... as predicted the board has gone mental over the 2013 Lions selections...

But for my pennies worth...

1. Matt Stevens selection totally baffling.
2. No surprise over Farrell selection. Not my choice, as I don't think he is good enough on the international scene. Would have probably gone for Biggar myself.
3. Very surprised only 2 Flyhalfs, and question how you can play 2 games a week (test games later on tour) with only 2 fly halfs. Personally don't think Wilko should be there, he's the past not the future, but I can see why he has been mentioned. I personally think Gats will give him another chance and if he turns it down, I can see Hook being called up as Fly Half cover as he can also cover other positions.
4. Cant see how Hartley is there, especially over Best.
5. As for the back row, I actually think Gats has it right, and also think Lydiate is a good punt. He may have ben injured most the season, but was the standout 6 last year. Reckon he'll get his game time mid week and by the time the tests come, he'll be more than ready to do a job.
6. Warbs as captain... No surprise, and actually think it a good call. Others have said BOD or POC, but can either of those be guaranteed a test spot. I don't think so. POC is back from injury the same as Lydiate, so why everyone is on Lydiate's back yet not POC I'm not sure. Ok POC has played some HC games, but does that line him up for a shoe in and hence captaincy material. I don't thnk so. My only concern with Warbs being captain is that Tuperic may suffer and not get a Test spot. I think Tips has the edge on Warbs at the moment, yet play them at 6 & 7... They did a job on the English Slam hopefuls...

Anyway, that's my take on the side...

It was always going to have posters "slagging" it off... Lets wait and see how it pans out... I reckon it could be a Lions series win, whether it could be 3-0 I'm not sure.

.............

Sorry I started a new thread, just there is so much negativity in the established ones...

Biggles, not sure it has calmed down yet, so keep the tin hat firmly on for the moment!

I think the difference between POC and Lydiate is that the former has delivered two stand-out (-ish) performances at the highest level of the club game, whereas the latter hasn't exactly been setting the heather alight in a meh (apologies Dreigiau) team. I know what you're saying about Tipuric at 7 with Warburton at 6, but if that is the test combo, then there's no place for Lydiate. That being said, I think Warburton's best performances have been with Lydiate at 6. Confused? Wink

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