Why does manny's management stipulate weight?

First topic message reminder :


Why has manny (or at least his management) stipulated weight for his last few fights?

Margarito - 150/1
Cotto -145
DLH - 147

Also why DIDN'T they stipulate a weight for the Clottey fight?

I'm a massive fan of manny's attacking style, I think all the fights would have gone the same way at the full weight but maybe he'd had a bit of harder nights work or less stoppage results.

Thoughts?

MickeyGoldmill wrote:Don't mention Floyd! Thats not what this post is about.....

The impression the fights did not happen at full weight was to negate the risk for pac man whilst stepping up.
Whilst excellent results, its clear that not fighting at the full weights lessens the value of the victories.

If Pac man beat these guys at full weight it would have been more impressive, correct??

Spot on. The argument that Cotto wasn't affected by the 145 stip just doesn't hold water, because if it made no difference then why have it to begin with? Likewise that the LMW belt was contested 4lbs below the upper limit is a joke. Not won at the full weight, and never defended. Plus it was won as a vacant belt against an undeserving guy.

Pac being a LMW champion is a joke. Catchweight contest with an undeserving challenger.

Not sure it deters from the Cotto victory to much. Cotto was still very good and came into the ring at 147lbs+.

The stips are there to equalise things by giving Pac an advantage. To be the best you have to beat the best at the best's weight.

The stips are there to equalise things by giving Pac an advantage. To be the best you have to beat the best at the best's weight.
...................
No but Manny is the best isnt he really? i mean he's rated number 1 you cant argue with that, whilst Manny's been winning fights the other guys been having vile rants about yellow people, regularly visiting his local cop shop

Steven_89 wrote:The stips are there to equalise things by giving Pac an advantage. To be the best you have to beat the best at the best's weight.
...................
No but Manny is the best isnt he really? i mean he's rated number 1 you cant argue with that, whilst Manny's been winning fights the other guys been having vile rants about yellow people, regularly visiting his local cop shop

Not sure who you're talking about their mate.

The only one I have a problem with is Margarito he never deserved his shot and the catchweight for a LMW title was embarassing for the sport.

Brilliant

Another article on Manny

The sport is bigger than 1 or 2 fighters by the way. Thankfully both are near retirement which means hardcore fans will get a break from the same inane rudey poo trotted out every 2 minutes

Coxy I posted up 2 articles yesterday that had nothing to do with them their was little comment on it. Their is a Froch post that is getting little discussion.

Why don't you go on them or post an article of your own to spark discussion?

Steven_89 wrote:The stips are there to equalise things by giving Pac an advantage. To be the best you have to beat the best at the best's weight.
...................
No but Manny is the best isnt he really? i mean he's rated number 1 you cant argue with that, whilst Manny's been winning fights the other guys been having vile rants about yellow people, regularly visiting his local cop shop

If he is the best, why have the weight stipulations? Why weaken your opponent? If you claim to be the best, prove it on a level playing field and dont skew the issue by making another fighter come into a fight already disadvantaged.

Is Manny a coward that he cant rely solely on his skills?

coxy0001 wrote:Brilliant

Another article on Manny

The sport is bigger than 1 or 2 fighters by the way. Thankfully both are near retirement which means hardcore fans will get a break from the same inane rudey poo trotted out every 2 minutes

A quick scan of the first page of boxing articles would suggest no articles by yourself.

Take the bull by the horns, Coxy, and create some discussion in a different type of thread. If it goes off the topic you post, we will intervene.

D4,

Is there any reason why Pacquiao/Roach may have insisted on any weight stipulation for the Cotto fight?

If he is the best, why have the weight stipulations? Why weaken your opponent? If you claim to be the best, prove it on a level playing field and dont skew the issue by making another fighter come into a fight already disadvantaged.

Is Manny a coward that he cant rely solely on his skills?
..........................................
Cotto came in like 2 or 3 pounds lighter than he already does and insisted weight never played a part, i've said it before and i'll say it again, im not interested in one of your witch hunts because someone doesnt agree with you, also he fought Margarito who weighed in at 150 and was in unbelievable shape, 3 pounds above what he beat Cotto at and lost to Mosley at, your splitting hairs, it wont work with me, he's rated number 1 and has said in boxing news last week, he's bigger and better than anyone out there, Mayweather isnt even number 2 Martinez is, you gotta fight to be up there, another guy Mayweather avoided yes even ANOTHER 1 . Paul Williams was fried in 2 rounds of Martinez, before he moved up to destroy a world level fighter in Dzinziruk last time out

I presume it is because like SSM getting better the older and slower he gets, making Cotto come in lighter than he would normally, means he will be stronger with more stamina.

azania wrote:

Steven_89 wrote:The stips are there to equalise things by giving Pac an advantage. To be the best you have to beat the best at the best's weight.
...................
No but Manny is the best isnt he really? i mean he's rated number 1 you cant argue with that, whilst Manny's been winning fights the other guys been having vile rants about yellow people, regularly visiting his local cop shop

If he is the best, why have the weight stipulations? Why weaken your opponent? If you claim to be the best, prove it on a level playing field and dont skew the issue by making another fighter come into a fight already disadvantaged.

Is Manny a coward that he cant rely solely on his skills?

Az, why should Manny fight at a weight he is not comfortable with when he is the champion and biggest draw in the fight?

D4,

Is there any reason why Pacquiao/Roach may have insisted on any weight stipulation for the Cotto fight?
.............................
King beer, did you hear Cotto say weight NEVER HAD NO EFFECT ON HIM, you dont have the guy's body and didnt fight, so i'll take his word not yours.

Just like me rolling this off
COTTO
MARGARITO
PAUL WILLIAMS
MARTINEZ
There's no excuse for the fact he hasnt fought any of those guys (Mayweather), as Manny should fight Martinez next and not Marquez, Martinez is a miles better and bigger fighter

Steven I agree with you on the Cotto win imo one of Manny's best since moving up from SFW.

He is number 1 imo due to Mayweathers inactivity I have always felt Floyd was the better fighter of the two.

Williams wouldn't beat Floyd he may be tall but sticks his chin out doesn't fight tall so negates his own height advantage.

Enforcer wrote:

azania wrote:

Steven_89 wrote:The stips are there to equalise things by giving Pac an advantage. To be the best you have to beat the best at the best's weight.
...................
No but Manny is the best isnt he really? i mean he's rated number 1 you cant argue with that, whilst Manny's been winning fights the other guys been having vile rants about yellow people, regularly visiting his local cop shop

If he is the best, why have the weight stipulations? Why weaken your opponent? If you claim to be the best, prove it on a level playing field and dont skew the issue by making another fighter come into a fight already disadvantaged.

Is Manny a coward that he cant rely solely on his skills?

Az, why should Manny fight at a weight he is not comfortable with when he is the champion and biggest draw in the fight?

Then perhaps he should fight at a weight he is comfortable instead of making the other guy lose weight and be innefective. Boxers take risks and will fight where the money is. Manny is the big draw and means money. They are risking their health each time they step into the ring and asking them to come in weight drained is increasing that risk.

Steven_89 wrote:D4,

Is there any reason why Pacquiao/Roach may have insisted on any weight stipulation for the Cotto fight?
.............................
King beer, did you hear Cotto say weight NEVER HAD NO EFFECT ON HIM, you dont have the guy's body and didnt fight, so i'll take his word not yours.

Just like me rolling this off
COTTO
MARGARITO
PAUL WILLIAMS
MARTINEZ
There's no excuse for the fact he hasnt fought any of those guys (Mayweather), as Manny should fight Martinez next and not Marquez, Martinez is a miles better and bigger fighter

Sergio,

Did you even read my post? Did i claim to have known Cotto? Was my post even aimed at you? No.

If i want an answer from a 2 bob WUM i'll ask for it. OK?

boxrec say Ortiz v Mayweather is on for september its on both guys records.

@Prettyboykev
........................................
i think Manny is much faster, is better to watch, they are just as good as each other, but you cant fight twice in 3 years when the other guy's fought 6 times and be ahead, also the other guy against better fighters. However, i stick with what i've always said, Pacquiao would break his heart, especially with the amount of punches he'd land on his face and stop him in 10 rounds. He went back to the corner looking a bag of nerves and moaned after Hatton's speed early, i knew he'd win that fight hands down as well, shame he was nervous though, i cant help but feel nerves would play a huge part against a mosquito stinging like combination thrower like Pacquiao buzzing about him.

Sergio,

Did you even read my post? Did i claim to have known Cotto? Was my post even aimed at you? No.

If i want an answer from a 2 bob WUM i'll ask for it. OK?
King Beer
Admin
..........................................................
hahahaha why the aggresive attitude?, you were doing a witch hunt, i disagreed, he's boiling over behind the PC, a wum, i'm no d4 i dont agree with everything Pacquiao does, your a mini hitler who dictates, im not.

Steven_89 wrote:Sergio,

Did you even read my post? Did i claim to have known Cotto? Was my post even aimed at you? No.

If i want an answer from a 2 bob WUM i'll ask for it. OK?
King Beer
Admin
..........................................................
hahahaha why the aggresive attitude?, you were doing a witch hunt, i disagreed, he's boiling over behind the PC, a wum, i'm no d4 i dont agree with everything Pacquiao does, your a mini hitler who dictates, im not.

Because i was asking him a question, not doing a witch hunt. Not addressing you.

I may well be a 'mini hitler' but it still tops being you every day of the week!

Godwins Law!

KB wins

Enforcer wrote:Godwins Law!

KB wins

Because i was asking him a question, not doing a witch hunt. Not addressing you.

I may well be a 'mini hitler' but it still tops being you every day of the week!
.........................................................
hahaha, does it now? hahahahahahahah its unbelievable how you know what being me is like to be honest with you, you seem really, really angry. You are doing a witch hunt, Cotto said himself that his body had nothing to do with being drained with regards to being stopped by Manny. Thats all im saying though, you wont be getting under my skin, Adolf.

azania wrote:

Enforcer wrote:

azania wrote:

Steven_89 wrote:The stips are there to equalise things by giving Pac an advantage. To be the best you have to beat the best at the best's weight.
...................
No but Manny is the best isnt he really? i mean he's rated number 1 you cant argue with that, whilst Manny's been winning fights the other guys been having vile rants about yellow people, regularly visiting his local cop shop

If he is the best, why have the weight stipulations? Why weaken your opponent? If you claim to be the best, prove it on a level playing field and dont skew the issue by making another fighter come into a fight already disadvantaged.

Is Manny a coward that he cant rely solely on his skills?

Az, why should Manny fight at a weight he is not comfortable with when he is the champion and biggest draw in the fight?

Then perhaps he should fight at a weight he is comfortable instead of making the other guy lose weight and be innefective. Boxers take risks and will fight where the money is. Manny is the big draw and means money. They are risking their health each time they step into the ring and asking them to come in weight drained is increasing that risk.

But he does fight a comfortable weight? Surely it is the other boxer agreeing to it that should take a different fight at their weight.

Find any witches KB?

Steven_89 wrote:Because i was asking him a question, not doing a witch hunt. Not addressing you.

I may well be a 'mini hitler' but it still tops being you every day of the week!
.........................................................
hahaha, does it now? hahahahahahahah its unbelievable how you know what being me is like to be honest with you, you seem really, really angry. You are doing a witch hunt, Cotto said himself that his body had nothing to do with being drained with regards to being stopped by Manny. Thats all im saying though, you wont be getting under my skin, Adolf.

Awww, look at the little princess trying to get all defensive.

D4,

Is there any reason why Pacquiao/Roach may have insisted on any weight stipulation for the Cotto fight?

That was my question, now, please point out to me where that required your answer? I haven't stated anything about Cotto. Simply asked questions.

The key statements being...

Is there any reason why

and

may have insisted

Nothing about that infers a witch hunt.

Maybe you should get a better grasp of the English language before trying to look clever.

Danke schön.

Steven

FACT:

Why, if it didn't matter one iota, did team Manny enforce a catchweight stip for the fight?

Yes, his body may have been ok - but what toll did it take mentally? He came into camp earlier than usual, subconsciously you can't speak for him and neither can i. But it's pretty common that you suffer mental fatigue and burnout without realising it.

Naturally the above won't be facts in your eyes.

And please southpaw don't start offering me down your gym. I've told you before i'm not interested and don't sway away from the natural baby making pipe line. If you catch my drift.

Steven_89 wrote:boxrec say Ortiz v Mayweather is on for september its on both guys records.

@Prettyboykev
........................................
i think Manny is much faster, is better to watch, they are just as good as each other, but you cant fight twice in 3 years when the other guy's fought 6 times and be ahead, also the other guy against better fighters. However, i stick with what i've always said, Pacquiao would break his heart, especially with the amount of punches he'd land on his face and stop him in 10 rounds. He went back to the corner looking a bag of nerves and moaned after Hatton's speed early, i knew he'd win that fight hands down as well, shame he was nervous though, i cant help but feel nerves would play a huge part against a mosquito stinging like combination thrower like Pacquiao buzzing about him.

Can't argue with Mannys record over the last 3 years. Floyd is more the style of fighter i like watching. I'm a big Manny fan as well. But would have Floyd to win by close UD.

Awww, look at the little princess trying to get all defensive.
...........................................
When im asked things on the forum, others reply which is fine by me, its a forum not an interview, you really do sum up how immature you are by calling me a princessss as well, lets be honest, your clearly wound up and sound silly and childish saying things like that. 8)

Steven_89 wrote:Awww, look at the little princess trying to get all defensive.
...........................................
When im asked things on the forum, others reply which is fine by me, its a forum not an interview, you really do sum up how immature you are by calling me a princessss as well, lets be honest, your clearly wound up and sound silly and childish saying things like that. 8)

Yes but i'm sure they actually answer the question, whereas you completely missed the point with mine.

It's also princess, with 2 s's, not 4. And i just couldn't think of anything better to call you!

Enforcer wrote:

azania wrote:

Enforcer wrote:

azania wrote:

Steven_89 wrote:The stips are there to equalise things by giving Pac an advantage. To be the best you have to beat the best at the best's weight.
...................
No but Manny is the best isnt he really? i mean he's rated number 1 you cant argue with that, whilst Manny's been winning fights the other guys been having vile rants about yellow people, regularly visiting his local cop shop

If he is the best, why have the weight stipulations? Why weaken your opponent? If you claim to be the best, prove it on a level playing field and dont skew the issue by making another fighter come into a fight already disadvantaged.

Is Manny a coward that he cant rely solely on his skills?

Az, why should Manny fight at a weight he is not comfortable with when he is the champion and biggest draw in the fight?

Then perhaps he should fight at a weight he is comfortable instead of making the other guy lose weight and be innefective. Boxers take risks and will fight where the money is. Manny is the big draw and means money. They are risking their health each time they step into the ring and asking them to come in weight drained is increasing that risk.

But he does fight a comfortable weight? Surely it is the other boxer agreeing to it that should take a different fight at their weight.

He fights at whatever weight he chooses. But the problem for me is that he also chooses what weight his opponent should come in at. He is the biggest draw and many boxers are very reluctant to lose out on a career high payday so most will agree with weight stips. For me it totally diminishes Manny's record.

If Manny wants to fight at Heavyweight, fine by me, but dont ask the other guy to come in at Middleweight. And dont claim it for the title also.

Steven_89 wrote:Because i was asking him a question, not doing a witch hunt. Not addressing you.

I may well be a 'mini hitler' but it still tops being you every day of the week!
.........................................................
hahaha, does it now? hahahahahahahah its unbelievable how you know what being me is like to be honest with you, you seem really, really angry. You are doing a witch hunt, Cotto said himself that his body had nothing to do with being drained with regards to being stopped by Manny. Thats all im saying though, you wont be getting under my skin, Adolf.

Good grief.

Steven

FACT:

Why, if it didn't matter one iota, did team Manny enforce a catchweight stip for the fight?

Yes, his body may have been ok - but what toll did it take mentally? He came into camp earlier than usual, subconsciously you can't speak for him and neither can i. But it's pretty common that you suffer mental fatigue and burnout without realising it.

Naturally the above won't be facts in your eyes.

And please southpaw don't start offering me down your gym. I've told you before i'm not interested and don't sway away from the natural baby making pipe line. If you catch my drift.
...................................................................
I dont know why he asks people to come in lighter than usual, who am i Alex Ariza? i know Cotto trains early for every fight, the guy walks about at about 13/14 stone this i know for truth as i've heard him say in interviews, you still obsessed about me asking you down the gym let me explain.

This johnny after timer said that i didnt box, so i asked him to come down the gym, i'd of shook his hand and shown him my medical card, i didnt have any interest in meeting a WUM like this, i just wanted to prove him wrong, i dont lie, i had a 15 fight amateur career, winning 10, losing 5 wasnt Manny or out special, but i would never lie, your a doughnut who has been offered the chance to be proved wrong and said no, as i said though i have no interest in you, your an absolute laughing stock in my eyes, an angry one too, you get boiled over.

He fights at whatever weight he chooses. But the problem for me is that he also chooses what weight his opponent should come in at. He is the biggest draw and many boxers are very reluctant to lose out on a career high payday so most will agree with weight stips. For me it totally diminishes Manny's record.

If Manny wants to fight at Heavyweight, fine by me, but dont ask the other guy to come in at Middleweight. And dont claim it for the title also.
.........................................
Then Mayweather fighting a lightweight as to come up doesnt it?

your a doughnut who has been offered the chance to be proved wrong and said no, as i said though i have no interest in you, your an absolute laughing stock in my eyes, an angry one too, you get boiled over.

----------------------------------------------

It's totally consumed me whether you box or not, i've even turned to hardcore drugs as a result.

What a shame i never took you up on your offer eh! Just think, i could be content with a great life and a lovely girlfriend if i had come to your gym to "shake your hand" (dirty git).... oh wait.........! I couldn't honestly give two s**ts!

Calm down southpaw, and stop using the boxing forum as a means to meeting new guys

Enough name calling from everyone!

Consider this a warning to all

Steven_89 wrote:

He fights at whatever weight he chooses. But the problem for me is that he also chooses what weight his opponent should come in at. He is the biggest draw and many boxers are very reluctant to lose out on a career high payday so most will agree with weight stips. For me it totally diminishes Manny's record.

If Manny wants to fight at Heavyweight, fine by me, but dont ask the other guy to come in at Middleweight. And dont claim it for the title also.
.........................................
Then Mayweather fighting a lightweight as to come up doesnt it?

I know this is in English, but for the life of me I cant understand your point. Care to try again?

When were Martinez and Williams fights realistice propositions, he took on the number one and two in the division instead of Margarito so was hardly ducking him

Davie wrote:Enough name calling from everyone!

Consider this a warning to all

Not sure i've done any so far!

And if i have it was laced with gods truth

Yes coxy - that warning included you.

Back to topic please

It's totally consumed me whether you box or not, i've even turned to hardcore drugs as a result.

What a shame i never took you up on your offer eh! Just think, i could be content with a great life and a lovely girlfriend if i had come to your gym to "shake your hand" (dirty git).... oh wait.........! I couldn't honestly give two s**ts!

Calm down southpaw, and stop using the boxing forum as a means to meeting new guys
.........................................
Your the angry one, you can tell, you dont bother me, and then you bring up sick fetishes when i say shake your hand, dont all sportsmen do that? again, proving your immaturity, do us a favour though if you talk boxing fair enough, dont start saying i offered you down the gym and trying to turn it into something other than boxing to satisfy your sick mind though, which is there for everyone to read into what your saying, i invited you down as you called me a liar, you looked a mug when you were offered the chance to be proved wrong though to be honest with you. Thats all im saying on the matter though, i'll ignore your childish/self pleasing fetish remarks in future, you smoke? i think you need 1 to calm yourself.

Yes coxy - that warning included you.

Back to topic please
.........................
yeah you went all sexual so i suppose even a monkey could work out it went to you too, were not on here for your fetishes we want to talk boxing

When were Martinez and Williams fights realistice propositions, he took on the number one and two in the division instead of Margarito so was hardly ducking him
......................................................
Could he not of boxed Martinez instead of Marquez? i mean it would of been a more level playing field, Mayweather's boxed at LMW before, Martinez held a title there at the time of him fighting a lightweight

Williams has always been better than Judah on a defeat or on a win !, Baldomir, Gatti, thats my opinion, i suspect many others think he's better than them as well is Williams.

Steven_89 wrote:Yes coxy - that warning included you.

Back to topic please
.........................
yeah you went all sexual so i suppose even a monkey could work out it went to you too, were not on here for your fetishes we want to talk boxing

It includes you as well........ and me...........and.........
everybody......

Was the Martinez fight viable at that time, no it wasn't and never has been, you know this but thought you'd name drop to try and substantiate a feable argument. A fight with Williams has never been viable either or is losing to Quintana acceptable using your logic of not fighting guys who have lost.

Steven_89 wrote:It's totally consumed me whether you box or not, i've even turned to hardcore drugs as a result.

What a shame i never took you up on your offer eh! Just think, i could be content with a great life and a lovely girlfriend if i had come to your gym to "shake your hand" (dirty git).... oh wait.........! I couldn't honestly give two s**ts!

Calm down southpaw, and stop using the boxing forum as a means to meeting new guys
.........................................
Your the angry one, you can tell, you dont bother me, and then you bring up sick fetishes when i say shake your hand, dont all sportsmen do that? again, proving your immaturity, do us a favour though if you talk boxing fair enough, dont start saying i offered you down the gym and trying to turn it into something other than boxing to satisfy your sick mind though, which is there for everyone to read into what your saying, i invited you down as you called me a liar, you looked a mug when you were offered the chance to be proved wrong though to be honest with you. Thats all im saying on the matter though, i'll ignore your childish/self pleasing fetish remarks in future, you smoke? i think you need 1 to calm yourself.

Cut it out steve and stick to boxing talk.

Thanks

It includes you as well........ and me...........and.........
everybody......
............................
Yes, i knew it included me cheers i already knew, but i thank you very kindly for informing me once again

..............................................
@ the mighty atom
The same Quintana he iced in a round in a rematch?, the Martinez fight as always been viable, Sergio is an unbelievable fighter, but hey you know what im thinking, i think, erm no you think sorry!

When was it specifically viable, when were they at the same weight, just name dropping doesn't mean it was ever an option which it obviously has never been.

Steven_89 wrote:It includes you as well........ and me...........and.........
everybody......
............................
Yes, i knew it included me cheers i already knew, but i thank you very kindly for informing me once again

You are very welcome.

Steven_89 wrote:Yes, i knew it included me cheers i already knew, but i thank you very kindly for informing me once again

Steven - if you already knew it included you, then why persist? You've already earned yourself 24 hours in the cooler but as the messages were coming through two or three per minute I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

Any more smart-mouthed replies to admins, mods or other members or any more abuse and the 24 hour ban will not only be enforced, but increased to 48 hours. Enough is enough