Healy- best loosehead in the world?

First topic message reminder :

Having watched Healy, throughout this season, it's rare that he's had a bad match.I can't think of a prop with a better overall work-rate, breakdown work, tackling, and in particular devastating ball carrying.His scrummaging is improving every year, it's a long time since someone's given him a hard time in that area.He seems to carry a lot less fat, than the other props, and as a result seems to be a lot fitter, and often is still making rampaging carries in the last quarter of the game.Props like Gethin and Cole(I know he's a tighthead), are mobile for props with decent ball carrying, however they surely can't compare to Healy!!!!Although at times he needs to control his anger ,and looses his discipline, a minor blip.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOPBwC0ZITs

Bathman_in_London wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

Artful_Dodger wrote:Have a look at Oosthuizen who Biltong mentioned:

http://www.rugbydump.com/2013/05/3187/prop-coenie-oosthuizens-knockout-run-and-two-tries-vs-the-hurricanes

Oosthuizen is your typical SA quality loose head prop. He is ferociously strong, ferociously powerful, ferociously mobile and ferociously overweight.He will go very far.

The perfect prop if you will!

Yep, skinny props don't tend to do very well.

Bathman_in_London wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

Artful_Dodger wrote:Have a look at Oosthuizen who Biltong mentioned:

http://www.rugbydump.com/2013/05/3187/prop-coenie-oosthuizens-knockout-run-and-two-tries-vs-the-hurricanes

Oosthuizen is your typical SA quality loose head prop. He is ferociously strong, ferociously powerful, ferociously mobile and ferociously overweight.He will go very far.

The perfect prop if you will!

He looks good alright. Despite the flab he can definitely shift it around the park.

Who the best is always a subjective question anyhow.... until the best all play together and face off each other in a short space of time then you can never be sure.
Guys like Carter, McCaw, Pocock, Genia, Burger, Fourie are hailed as the best because they have been around long enough to have no peers in the game, they've proved themselves year in year out, against the very best and performed on the world stage.

Healy hasn't done this yet. You can argue that there are no better players in his position yardy yardy yah but this tour is the sort which could enable him to gain this sort of tag if he goes on tour with the right frame of mind and tests.

His test spot is no way guaranteed mind.... Vunipola is making serious waves and Gethin has that experience tag which really counts in these series. I could see Gethin starting and Vunipola sitting on the bench if Healy doesn't perform... its happened to better players over the years in Lions series.

I wouldn't say he looks like he is on drugs either.. he's a muscular chap but he's not that big compared to guys like Sheridan, he's probably even on the light side for a prop no (110kg compared to many around 120kg) ??? In terms of his neck size, I heard Manu had the biggest neck in the tour and no one suggest he's on drugs.... probably because he's still the smallest of all his brothers (its either his mammie's cooking or the genes... probably both).

Biltong wrote:
The perfect prop if you will!

Yep, skinny props don't tend to do very well. [/quote]



French props are skinny by comparison but usually do very well.



...except Vincent Debaty

Tom Smith was barely 100kg in his prime yet he won 6 lions caps in a pro era and was able to compete with the likes of Garvey who was perhaps 20kg of muscle heavier. England also had a tiny prop in the early early 90s... can't remember his name (although his pack was superb.. which helps).

fa0019 wrote:Who the best is always a subjective question anyhow.... until the best all play together and face off each other in a short space of time then you can never be sure.
Guys like Carter, McCaw, Pocock, Genia, Burger, Fourie are hailed as the best because they have been around long enough to have no peers in the game, they've proved themselves year in year out, against the very best and performed on the world stage.

Healy hasn't done this yet. You can argue that there are no better players in his position yardy yardy yah but this tour is the sort which could enable him to gain this sort of tag if he goes on tour with the right frame of mind and tests.

His test spot is no way guaranteed mind.... Vunipola is making serious waves and Gethin has that experience tag which really counts in these series. I could see Gethin starting and Vunipola sitting on the bench if Healy doesn't perform... its happened to better players over the years in Lions series.

I wouldn't say he looks like he is on drugs either.. he's a muscular chap but he's not that big compared to guys like Sheridan, he's probably even on the light side for a prop no (110kg compared to many around 120kg) ??? In terms of his neck size, I heard Manu had the biggest neck in the tour and no one suggest he's on drugs.... probably because he's still the smallest of all his brothers (its either his mammie's cooking or the genes... probably both).

This is true and I agree. I must say I dont really care if Healy is the "best" in the world. All I know is he is a class act and a real commodity to Irish rugby. I am confident that every time he lines out for Ireland he will stand out for his barnstorming runs and ferioucios tackling. His scrummaging is decent too. Ireland and Leinster are very lucky to have him.

Wouldnt be that concerned about Vunipola. Hasnt been that impressive.

GunsGerms wrote:

French props are skinny by comparison but usually do very well.

Good solid technique. Hopefully the IRB will eventually get to grips with the scrum issues rather than fanny around the problem like they are at the moment. If not, we will see the end of 'real' props and future generations will just see shorter and stouter flankers packing down at 1 & 3.

When I played, I will never forget Ralph, our tighthead prop. He was excessively fat from the age of 13, had ginger hair, questionable personal hygiene, a very 'relaxed' attitude to education and a face that looked like he had been smacked with the back of a spade.

Phenomenal scrummager though.

fa0019 wrote:Tom Smith was barely 100kg in his prime yet he won 6 lions caps in a pro era and was able to compete with the likes of Garvey who was perhaps 20kg of muscle heavier. England also had a tiny prop in the early early 90s... can't remember his name (although his pack was superb.. which helps).

I often think of the Lions series in 1997 and wonder what the outcome would have been if scrums were contested under current rules. There is much made of the technique that Smith and Wallace used to combat the much bigger SA props but I doubt that would have been possible had there been as much emphasis on the 'hit'. Os Du Randt at 135kgs slamming with great velocity into Paul Wallace at 110 kgs would probably have brought about very different results.

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:

fa0019 wrote:Tom Smith was barely 100kg in his prime yet he won 6 lions caps in a pro era and was able to compete with the likes of Garvey who was perhaps 20kg of muscle heavier. England also had a tiny prop in the early early 90s... can't remember his name (although his pack was superb.. which helps).

I often think of the Lions series in 1997 and wonder what the outcome would have been if scrums were contested under current rules. There is much made of the technique that Smith and Wallace used to combat the much bigger SA props but I doubt that would have been possible had there been as much emphasis on the 'hit'. Os Du Randt at 135kgs slamming with great velocity into Paul Wallace at 110 kgs would probably have brought about very different results.

I just think of all the kicks missed in the second test and then I cry....

Biltong wrote:

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:

fa0019 wrote:Tom Smith was barely 100kg in his prime yet he won 6 lions caps in a pro era and was able to compete with the likes of Garvey who was perhaps 20kg of muscle heavier. England also had a tiny prop in the early early 90s... can't remember his name (although his pack was superb.. which helps).

I often think of the Lions series in 1997 and wonder what the outcome would have been if scrums were contested under current rules. There is much made of the technique that Smith and Wallace used to combat the much bigger SA props but I doubt that would have been possible had there been as much emphasis on the 'hit'. Os Du Randt at 135kgs slamming with great velocity into Paul Wallace at 110 kgs would probably have brought about very different results.

I just think of all the kicks missed in the second test and then I cry....

There is that as well!

Biltong.... the 2nd test was a once in 50 year event. The boks scored 3 tries, conceded none and still lost. It was the ultimate freak of nature. It hasn't happened to either SA, ENG, AUS or NZ in the pro era since. The next time it happens you and I will be telling our grandkids about it.

Sure the 97 lions wouldn't have done as well under the current rules... but a 130kg Oz would have suffered also with the fitness and would probably have shed 15kg of that weight too.

fa0019 wrote:but a 130kg Oz would have suffered also with the fitness and would probably have shed 15kg of that weight too.

Yep, that is a good point. His longevity as a prop, much like Jason Leonard is admirable.

LordDowlais wrote:Although Healey (sic) has improved over the last few seasons, he does seem to be getting a little to big for his boots, he know's that he is the best loose head in Ireland and it seems to have gone to his head a little, he just needs to take step back and just let his ability do the talking.

I'm confused by this. What has he said or done to make you think this?

He always goes around wearing the number one jersey. It's embarrassing.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Although Healey (sic) has improved over the last few seasons, he does seem to be getting a little to big for his boots, he know's that he is the best loose head in Ireland and it seems to have gone to his head a little, he just needs to take step back and just let his ability do the talking.

I'm confused by this. What has he said or done to make you think this?

I dunno, it must be me, but when I have seen him play for Leinster and Ireland over the last few seasons, I have to admit, I have seen a massive improvement in his scrummaging, but he seems to have a cocky demeanour about him and he tends to back chat the refs inbetween coolapsed scrums and the what not, I duuno it must just be me, but I do tend to see it, I have notced our Adam doing this as well, it's just something I have noticed I suppose.

I just don't see it myself, Dowlais, that's all.

If he's more vocal to refs it's as a result of growing in experience and confidence. All props will have a friendly word in a refs ear to plead their case.
He was in front of my mate at a roundabout recently. My mates car broke down. Healy got out of his own motor, pushed the car out of the way and offered him and his three young kids a lift.

Submachine wrote:If he's more vocal to refs it's as a result of growing in experience and confidence. All props will have a friendly word in a refs ear to plead their case.
He was in front of my mate at a roundabout recently. My mates car broke down. Healy got out of his own motor, pushed the car out of the way and offered him and his three young kids a lift.

He didn't put the car on his left shoulder, the family on his right and carry them all home? The stuck-up f**ker! That's what I don't like about him - only half helps people.

LordDowlais wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Although Healey (sic) has improved over the last few seasons, he does seem to be getting a little to big for his boots, he know's that he is the best loose head in Ireland and it seems to have gone to his head a little, he just needs to take step back and just let his ability do the talking.

I'm confused by this. What has he said or done to make you think this?

I dunno, it must be me, but when I have seen him play for Leinster and Ireland over the last few seasons, I have to admit, I have seen a massive improvement in his scrummaging, but he seems to have a cocky demeanour about him and he tends to back chat the refs inbetween coolapsed scrums and the what not, I duuno it must just be me, but I do tend to see it, I have notced our Adam doing this as well, it's just something I have noticed I suppose.

He does it no more than any other prop, and this is the first I have ever seen this highlighted as an issue. He was extremely foolish in the England game and deserved a ban/red card. However, the comments that have been made about his character since then are ridiculous. I really do not know what game people think they are watching, but rugby is an aggressive contact sport. Sometimes people go too far and lose their head. That is what happened in the England game with Healy. Hopefully he has learnt his lesson and that is that. No issues so far.

Dowlais you have always been very critical of our props/players for a while now, maybe you just don't like the fact he is doing so well?

SecretFly wrote:

Submachine wrote:If he's more vocal to refs it's as a result of growing in experience and confidence. All props will have a friendly word in a refs ear to plead their case.
He was in front of my mate at a roundabout recently. My mates car broke down. Healy got out of his own motor, pushed the car out of the way and offered him and his three young kids a lift.

He didn't put the car on his left shoulder, the family on his right and carry them all home? The stuck-up f**ker! That's what I don't like about him - only half helps people.

Submachine wrote:If he's more vocal to refs it's as a result of growing in experience and confidence. All props will have a friendly word in a refs ear to plead their case.
He was in front of my mate at a roundabout recently. My mates car broke down. Healy got out of his own motor, pushed the car out of the way and offered him and his three young kids a lift.

I swear to god, and I am not lying about this, when we had the massive snow my car was stuck and Adam Jones came out and helped me push it, I was scrumming down with a Wales and Lions tighthead pushing cars, until his wife came out and gave him a bollocking for doing it as he could injure himself, then the fun was over, oh well, thats my claim to fame.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Although Healey (sic) has improved over the last few seasons, he does seem to be getting a little to big for his boots, he know's that he is the best loose head in Ireland and it seems to have gone to his head a little, he just needs to take step back and just let his ability do the talking.

I'm confused by this. What has he said or done to make you think this?

I dunno, it must be me, but when I have seen him play for Leinster and Ireland over the last few seasons, I have to admit, I have seen a massive improvement in his scrummaging, but he seems to have a cocky demeanour about him and he tends to back chat the refs inbetween coolapsed scrums and the what not, I duuno it must just be me, but I do tend to see it, I have notced our Adam doing this as well, it's just something I have noticed I suppose.

He does it no more than any other prop, and this is the first I have ever seen this highlighted as an issue. He was extremely foolish in the England game and deserved a ban/red card. However, the comments that have been made about his character since then are ridiculous. I really do not know what game people think they are watching, but rugby is an aggressive contact sport. Sometimes people go too far and lose their head. That is what happened in the England game with Healy. Hopefully he has learnt his lesson and that is that. No issues so far.

Dowlais you have always been very critical of our props/players for a while now, maybe you just don't like the fact he is doing so well?

I stated in an earlier thread that I think has improved his scrummaging and that he has the potential to be the best in the world, what more do you want ?

"I have to admit, I have seen a massive improvement in his scrummaging, but he seems to have a cocky demeanour about him"

You have to admit that looks very bitter. You don't seem to like the fact he is doing well, so his character gets attacked next. I just genuinely do not understand (nor have I ever heard this from anyone else) why you think he has a cocky attitude. Which is why I think you are frustrated that he is doing so well now.

If i'm wrong fair enough, but that is how it comes across.

Rory I have nothing against the man, I do not even know him, I think he is going to be one of the worlds best, but it is a trait I have noticed in him, and to be fair I said I have noticed it with Adam Jones as well, look I am not bitter about his success, far from it, and I will more than likely be cheering him on within the next few weeks, but I suppose you do need a certain streak like that in you if you want to become the best.

Fair enough, I just don't see it myself.