Analysis of Wlad vs some all time greats

The Ring magazine last year listed Wlad vs some all time greats, thought I'd share it's analysis for those who hadn't seen it, what's your thoughts agree ?




Joe Louis KO7 Wlad
"In the end, a Louis-Klitschko bout features a fighter with a dubious jaw against perhaps the greatest puncher of all time.


Wlad WPTS Rocky Marciano
"Our guess is that a Maricano-Klitschko bout would be ugle with Klitschko trying to smother Marciano, and Marciano gallantly trying to land something."

Wlad KO5 Floyd Patterson
"You can bet on Patterson hitting the canvas a few times in this one, gamely taking punches until the referee puts an end to it."

Sonny Liston KO5 Wlad
"A fierce, aggressive predator, Liston wouldn't allow Klitschko to simply stand in front of him and parry with his jab. Liston would force Klitschko to fight."

Ali WPTS Wlad
"Ali would come on strong during the last few rounds, alnd some crackling right leads over Wlad's lazy left."

Joe Frazier WPTS Wlad
"Wlad might land some bombs and maybe even drop Frazier a couple of times. But Wlad's habit of waiting for the perfect moment to strike would be disastrous against Frazier."

George Foreman KO10 Wlad
"Foreman could take a punch and would walk through Wlad's jab until he could land some bludgeoning punches."

Larry Holmes WPTS Wlad
Holmes was a rarity in that he was a bully who had the skill and toughness to back up his bullying...Holmes would outwork him."

Mike Tyson WPTS Wlad
The vintage Tyson...would have intimidated Wlad into freezing up."

Lennox Lewis KO10 Wlad
He would est Klitschko in a test match for a few rounds before turning up the aggression and finally answering the question of how many pile-driving right-hands it would take.



Thoughts?

Fair, except I'd expect some of the knock outs to be earlier. I also reckon Wlad may take Lewis, but that is a very unpopular view!!

Wlad is too big and strong for Louis...The relative midget Louis giving away nearly four stone and six inches ..Couldn't get past his jab and with his glass jaw gets knocked out in 3.........

Frazier stops Wlad...........with a swinging left hook early....

Wlad ko7 Liston...........Liston struggles to get inside the enormous Wlad's jab... being out weighed and outjabbed..........Quits like a dog at the end of the 7th.

Williams and witherspoon gave holmes nightmares ...........Reckon Wlad beats him on points........Holmes couldn't bang..

Lewis stops Wlad in 5 with a big right.

Wlad beats Marciano by late stoppage........60 pounds and 8 inches too hard to overcome.

Surely Foreman beats Wlad early or not at all...Ko10 WTF????

Tyson ko 2..........

Usual tripe about Louis your regurgitating I see.

How does Louis beat Wlad ?????????

Guys Louis was nothing more than a cruiserweight.....First time Wlad's jab lands his legs buckle.....170 pound Conn wobbled him and owned him for 12 rounds.........

Let's get real..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:How does Louis beat Wlad ?????????

Given you have described the brothers as the Primo Carnera of their day I would guess he would beat him in pretty much the same manner he beat Carnera.

They are huge and tall which is why I described them as such....

They offer more than he did though.

Watch him against Baer you'll see , funny how many pick Haye a guy who can't slip or parry a jab and counter, yet say proposterous statements like Louis is a midget with a glass jaw ???

So I take it your not counting Tyson as a midget then ? About 10lbs between him and Louis.

Like I said usual tripe

Cheers Rodders

Size does matter...................Baer is a small heavy as was Schmelling......and Braddock who decked him also..

Wlad to big and powerful......Couldn't take his shot.

Tyson went side to side...could take a punch......gave angles.......and was lightning fast...

No comparison to Louis.

Ok then that's theory why you're picking Tyson within 2?

So you gave Haye a better chance than Louis ? You picked him at the time ?

You and Az have no consistency whatsoever
Cheers Rodders

Haye is 6ft 3 and came in at a muscly 213 against Klit.........Louis was stick thin and weighed anything from 200-207 and was 6ft 1........

Id have to make Louis a favourite over Wlad but not that much of a one to be honest. Hes a lot smaller and more of a methodical stalker which I don’t think would make Wlad as uncomfortable as a high tempo swarmer. Wlad could find the room to get his jab going and find a rhythm. The other thing is Louis wasn’t the most difficult to hit, in particular by the straight right which is Wlads money punch.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Haye is 6ft 3 and came in at a muscly 213 against Klit.........Louis was stick thin and weighed anything from 200-207 and was 6ft 1........

Stick thin ???? 207lbs
I can't be bothered its getting silly.

Cheers rodders

manos de piedra wrote:Id have to make Louis a favourite over Wlad but not that much of a one to be honest. Hes a lot smaller and more of a methodical stalker which I don’t think would make Wlad as uncomfortable as a high tempo swarmer. Wlad could find the room to get his jab going and find a rhythm. The other thing is Louis wasn’t the most difficult to hit, in particular by the straight right which is Wlads money punch.

exactly 50 pounds is a lot of weight................Chuck in Wlad's mauling and jab ..Louis dodgy chin.....

I'll be honest I've seen a lot of Louis fights and all I see is one dimensional stalker with a decent right hand..........Think the Conn fight showed his limitations.......Conn himself said all he did was punch straight and move around and it was enough!!!..only lost that fight because he got too cocky.

Chuck in Schmelling's slap....Galento knocking him down with a hayemaker and the fact he lost to the only top 20 heavyweights he fought.....

I find it funny how someone can have Louis number 1 of alltime considering all he had was longevity........

I think Wlad would hold his own with all the past greats.

However I reckon he'd have more success against technical fighters and lose against the big punchers, I'd have him a massive fav over Patterson, however Louis and Tyson would be bad matchups for Wlad.


Truss you give Haye more of a chance than Louis, says it all mate, you don't need to waffle on about Louis, I give you a rise, now that's enough.
Cheers Rodders

I'm trying to see how Louis has anything more than a punchers chance against Wlad???

6 inches taller than a guy and 50 pounds bigger..........I'd love a matchup like that..

The problem Wlad has against Tyson however is his speed, ferocity, chin, side to side movement, power etc..........all the attributes bar power that Louis doesn't have..

Tyson would be hard work..........for Wlad or anyone..........

I'd Have Ali as the only man who beats a 1987 Tyson..

Whereas I'd pick Witherspoon, Lewis, Frazier, Foreman, Liston, Holmes, Wlad, plus an in shape prime Tubbs to all beat Louis...........

What's your criteria on Louis having a poor chin ??

He got up 9/10 and finished the job. Tyson never ever done that, never rescued anything when the chips were down.

Cheers Rodders

I love Frazier but he will not beat Wlad. Ever, He would be dropped like a house of straws, get up then get dropped again. Frazier, as they said took five punches to get one off. Against Wlad thats gonna accumulate.

Marciano stands no chance vs Wlad, eight inches and fifty pounds is a lot of giveway.

Sonny, though probably could win he has long arms, and a solid jab.

Foreman vs Wlad is tasty. Shannon Briggs rates Wlad as the hardest hitter he ever faced. And I think under Manny Stewart, Wlad protected his fragile chin very well. Of course, if Foreman lands a clean shot, its a game- changer, but Foreman got dropped by an Ali who failed to drop Frazier, Norton, or Chuck Wepner. Not saying he is chinny, but hardly George Chuvalo. You might say Foreman got KO'd because he was tiring, but he tired fifth round, yet Ring has him knocking Wlad out tenth round.

Tyson might beat Wlad, he probably doesnt hit as hard as Foreman, but he is faster and got hit less when he peek-a-boo'd.

Rodney wrote:What's your criteria on Louis having a poor chin ??

He got up 9/10 and finished the job. Tyson never ever done that, never rescued anything when the chips were down.

Cheers Rodders

Staggered of a 170 pounder is enough without adding the times he tasted the deck of small heavyweights.

Staggered of a 170 pounder is enough without adding the times he tasted the deck of small heavyweights

.

Hope that's not a typo, Truss.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

Rodney wrote:What's your criteria on Louis having a poor chin ??

He got up 9/10 and finished the job. Tyson never ever done that, never rescued anything when the chips were down.

Cheers Rodders

Staggered of a 170 pounder is enough without adding the times he tasted the deck of small heavyweights.

Ah well suppose Ali being almost knocked out flat by the physical imposing Cooper, suggests he was a little bit frail around the chops.

Cheers Rodders

Cooper wasn't 170 pounds..Holmes had a good chin not a great one............Spinks was heavier than Conn.....Couldn't hurt old larry..

A super middle shouldn't be rocking a heavy..

Ali took Foster's best shot.. He was a murderous puncher.

Buddy Baer, Schmelling, Braddock, Galento, Walcott, Marciano all sent him to the deck and Conn staggered him.........

Schmelling weighed 192 for Louis..........and knocked him out.........How does he take Klits "five stone" heavier right hand.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Cooper wasn't 170 pounds..

He certainly wasn't billy conn either.

What did cooper weigh by the way ?

You're emphasis is so much on weight yet you picked Haye a guy who knocked out by a 40 year old and dropped by a super middle, but he had muscles, no wonder no one takes you serious, your theories are about as consistent as the Missus cooking.

Cheers Rodders

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Cooper wasn't 170 pounds..Holmes had a good chin not a great one............Spinks was heavier than Conn.....Couldn't hurt old larry..

A super middle shouldn't be rocking a heavy..

Ali took Foster's best shot.. He was a murderous puncher.

Buddy Baer, Schmelling, Braddock, Galento, Walcott, Marciano all sent him to the deck and Conn staggered him.........

Schmelling weighed 192 for Louis..........and knocked him out.........How does he take Klits "five stone" heavier right hand.

The above post covers it.......Now stop arguing you know I'm right.

Louis wouldn't get past wlad's jab. Plus a rangy fighter like Wlad would be all wrong for Louis. The height difference together with the weight would be too much.

Wlad beats Frazier in a tough fight.

If Foreman doesn't KO Wlad inside 6 then Wlad would win down the stretch via points.

Wlad v Rocky

Wlad v Patterson

Wlad v Holmes would be interesting. A battle of the jabs. Holmes had the better jab and movement and would get him in the end. KO 11.

Lewis would beat Wlad in 2 as would Tyson.

I stopped reading after I saw Louis wouldn't get past Wlads jab !

I agree Az.........Louis wouldn't get past his jab..........5 stone and six inches is a lot....Not sure Louis takes his jab!!

Louis destroys them all in devestating manner because he was the best ever.

Bottom line is Wlad would be too big for him. Wlad may be chinny but he punches very hard and Louis wasn't exactly the strongest in the chin department either. I can see Wlad being very cautious using all his physical advantages to win a scrappy fight.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:I'm trying to see how Louis has anything more than a punchers chance against Wlad???

6 inches taller than a guy and 50 pounds bigger..........I'd love a matchup like that..

The problem Wlad has against Tyson however is his speed, ferocity, chin, side to side movement, power etc..........all the attributes bar power that Louis doesn't have..

Tyson would be hard work..........for Wlad or anyone..........

I'd Have Ali as the only man who beats a 1987 Tyson..

Whereas I'd pick Witherspoon, Lewis, Frazier, Foreman, Liston, Holmes, Wlad, plus an in shape prime Tubbs to all beat Louis...........

And Roy Jones.

Az do you actually watch boxing ?

You're on week after week telling us how Haye will knock Klitschko silly, a man who doesn't possess the ability to slip a jab and counter , he's totally clueless in that area, he can't plant his feet that's why he would never beat a Klitschko, Haye is 6foot 3 by the way.

Louis was 6foot 2 lots of footage on you tube watch him slip and parry a jab then come back to us, thanks.

Cheers Rodders

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Haye is 6ft 3 and came in at a muscly 213 against Klit.........Louis was stick thin and weighed anything from 200-207 and was 6ft 1........

Haye is not 6 3" whatever the record says. I've stood next to him, closer to 6 1" Id say.

Rodney wrote:Az do you actually watch boxing ?

You're on week after week telling us how Haye will knock Klitschko silly, a man who doesn't possess the ability to slip a jab and counter , he's totally clueless in that area, he can't plant his feet that's why he would never beat a Klitschko, Haye is 6foot 3 by the way.

Louis was 6foot 2 lots of footage on you tube watch him slip and parry a jab then come back to us, thanks.

Cheers Rodders

I said Wlad would beat Haye because he is simply the better boxer. I said Haye would KO Vitali because Vitali is now so slow it seems like he walks on treacle. If Haye fought Wlad next, Wlad would win again.

I have seen those fights on you tube. But whenever I pose a question his nuthuggers blame the film speed.

I dont really follow the Rings reasoning on the Tyson fight. If Wlad were to freeze against Tyson he would lack the spoiling skills to make it a distance fight and without his jab he would be pretty helpless a la Bruno. Im not sure he freezes (why not against Foreman or Liston then??) but I think Tyson probably gets to him.

Foreman to win over ten is unusual as well as his effectiveness would tend to drop off as the fight goes on.

The point they make in the Frazier fight is crucial though because against most of these guys Wlad would have to unleash the right hand more and not rely on using it sparingly.

Wlad against Louis is a tough one to begin with, I think. Louis doesn't have that non-stop pressure and sheer physicality to panic Wladimir, and it's definitely possible that Wlad can outbox him given that he's maybe a shade more mobile than Louis and has those height, reach and weight advantages. However, even if he's spotting Wladimir four stone in weight, Louis still has that punching power and hand speed to keep Wladimir honest and a little cautious. Louis had the knack of eventually figuring an opponent out, even if he was struggling early on (and his record in rematches, which is absolutely exceptional, is a good indicator of that, too). Louis had great stamina and, even though he could be hit and hurt a little too often, he also had great powers of recovery, so if Wladimir can't get him out of there then in the late rounds I think Louis would have a real shot at taking Wladimir out. Really not much in it for me and if they fought ten times I wouldn't be surprised if they shared the spoils at five each.

Wlad beats Marciano all day and every day for me, more or less. The only real concern for me is if he outscores him or takes him out after the mid stages. Marciano just too easy to hit, too small and too limited to do anything worthwhile with Wladimir. I think Rocky loses a decision half of the time, and gets stopped the other half.

Again, Patterson is on a bit of a hiding to nothing against Wladimir. The fact that he was so quick means that he might be able to dance his way through a couple of rounds or so, but once Wladimir gets hold of him he'd chew Floyd up and spit him out. We saw many times over that Patterson couldn't deal with the more robust, heavy-hitting fellas north of 200 lb and there's nothing to convince me that this would be any different. Wladimir by clean knockout inside the first half of the fight, virtually every time.

Not sure I like Wladimir's chances against Liston all that much, based on styles. There's a chance that Wladimir could outbox Sonny but Liston is one of the few whose jab carries just as much menace as Wlad's, and perhaps even more. I think Liston's too good to be stuck on the outside all night, which would be Wlad's preferred kind of fight. Sonny's good inside game, brutal uppercuts, great strength and sheer toughness proves too much for Wladimir in the end, I think. Liston by stoppage by the eighth / ninth round.

Ali dances a bit too well for Wladimir. I think their respective styles mean that Wladimir sees the final bell handily enough, but he loses a wide points verdict.

Frazier against Wladimir is another very interesting one, I think. While I can definitely see a case for Wladimir in this one, I'm amazed that kingraf could totally write Joe off here. Yes, Frazier often left himself open for some big-time punishment, but now and then he showed that his speed, rolling and head movement could make even the best of them miss. Ali was swinging at thin air pretty regularly in the 'Fight of the Century.' That might have been the exception rather than the rule when it came to Frazier, but it shows that he was capable of being elusive on his night (and again, this was against the man I'd consider to be the greatest Heavyweight of all time, here). Marciano let punches go in spurts a little more compared to Frazier, who never stopped once he got past the first couple of rounds (admittedly, he could be a slow starter) and he was also quicker than Marciano, with a better attacking arsenal as well. Wladimir moves backwards and forwards very smoothly, but he doesn't have great side to side movement and if he's moving back in straight lines against Frazier's constant swarming then he could be in trouble, I think. I'd make Frazier a narrow favourite, no more than 60:40 and with Wladimir definitely winning a few of them if they fought a long series.

The more time that passes, the more I begin to wonder if Foreman gets a bit of a pass for some of the less wonderful performances / results in his career. I know that I 'should' be thinking that he simply turns up, looks mean, pushes Wladimir back and clubs him to defeat, but something keeps niggling away in my mind and making me think that Wladimir could well box his way out of those tricky first few rounds and extinguish the Foreman fire. He probably manages that now and then, in fact. However, I'll stick with my old instinct on this one and say that, most of the time, Wladimir is stunned by the sheer strength of Foreman and is softened up by those uppercuts in the clinches before being stopped inside five or six rounds more often than not.

I think Holmes beats Wladimir the majority of the time, but only after an almighty struggle. Holmes had a tendancy to get frustrated and become ineffective when his opponent could smother his work and tie him up; Wladimir's extremely handy at this and has some very, very considerable height and weight advantages over Old Man Lar. He (Holmes) was also susceptible to a good jab himself. However, I don't think Wladimir can nail Larry to the canvas in the first half of the fight, and Holmes' brilliant stamina and fitness is likely to make it a dog fight in the late stages. It's been a while since Wladimir got dragged in to the trenches and if that happens here you'd have to back Holmes to find a way eventually, I think. Holmes either eeks out a tight decision or stops Wladimir very late on, having been behind in the early going.

Tyson's all wrong for Wladimir. Little brother is quicker than most think, but even then I just don't see how his upright stance can handle the onslaught that Tyson will be throwing at him in the early rounds. Tyson was hard to nail cleanly, insanely quick, punched in quicksilver combinations when at his best and had a superb chin himself. Every right to question whether he'd be able to hack it mentally if Wladimir could survive that and do so without going in to pure survival mode, ala Smith, but very honestly I don't think Tyson lets it get that far. Iron Mike to stop a very game (and not disgraced) but also very tired Wladimir on his feet in the fifth or sixth round.

Lewis hated shorter, aggressive fighters who got under his jab, but he always seemed more comfortable against fighters who were closer to his own ilk. He basically does most things better than Wladimir and, once more, we know that, although it wasn't his favourite kind of fight, he was capable of going to the trenches and brawling his way out of bother. If it's a technical kind of fight then Lewis wins a competative fight on points, but I don't rule out a late stoppage, probably the more likely outcome, if it gets ugly.

Wlad with a better chin would give Lewis nightmares and probably beat him over a series. People assume Wlad is not a good a boxer as Lewis is. But I reckon he has a better jad and balance than Lenny. Lewis' jab was often pawed out and his right hand resembled Courtney Walsh bowling. Wlad was the better pure boxer. But for his chin he would be an ATG top 10 easily.

kingraf wrote:I love Frazier but he will not beat Wlad. Ever, He would be dropped like a house of straws, get up then get dropped again. Frazier, as they said took five punches to get one off. Against Wlad thats gonna accumulate.

Marciano stands no chance vs Wlad, eight inches and fifty pounds is a lot of giveway.

Sonny, though probably could win he has long arms, and a solid jab.

Foreman vs Wlad is tasty. Shannon Briggs rates Wlad as the hardest hitter he ever faced. And I think under Manny Stewart, Wlad protected his fragile chin very well. Of course, if Foreman lands a clean shot, its a game- changer, but Foreman got dropped by an Ali who failed to drop Frazier, Norton, or Chuck Wepner. Not saying he is chinny, but hardly George Chuvalo. You might say Foreman got KO'd because he was tiring, but he tired fifth round, yet Ring has him knocking Wlad out tenth round.

Tyson might beat Wlad, he probably doesnt hit as hard as Foreman, but he is faster and got hit less when he peek-a-boo'd.

Amazed to hear that Briggs rates Wlad as harder puncher than Vitali, given that it was Vitali that for fought?

People bang on about Wlad's weak chin, but when was the last time he was actually troubled by a punch? - maybe against Peter 8 years ago? Can't think of many other fighters current, or in history, that have gone that long without being hurt. Even the defensive geniuses of Mayweather, Hopkins, Toney, Ward etc have all been in trouble in that that time. It seems a mighty long-shot to pick a guy over Wlad on the basis of him being 'easy to KO' when truth is he's barely tasted a punch in nearly a decade as champion.

Mayweathers cellmate wrote:People bang on about Wlad's weak chin, but when was the last time he was actually troubled by a punch? - maybe against Peter 8 years ago? Can't think of many other fighters current, or in history, that have gone that long without being hurt. Even the defensive geniuses of Mayweather, Hopkins, Toney, Ward etc have all been in trouble in that that time. It seems a mighty long-shot to pick a guy over Wlad on the basis of him being 'easy to KO' when truth is he's barely tasted a punch in nearly a decade as champion.

my thoughts exactly, people always talk about Wlads chin but Wlad has not even looked hurt in nearly a decade.

He hasnt really had his chin tested in about 6 years but thats because he hasnt been hit. Its fine against the calibre of opposition hes been up against but you would have to think against the best heavyweights in history its bound to be tested at some point and thats where there would be concerns. I think the actual weakness of his chin is overstated though, as is with Lennox Lewis. For me Wlads weakness is he loses composure when hit. Hes not the kind of fighter you could envisage prevailing in a war. He becomes fairly ragged when he gets buzzed and doesnt have much by way of survival instinct. I dont believe he gets layed out cold as soon as someone connects though.

manos de piedra wrote:He hasnt really had his chin tested in about 6 years but thats because he hasnt been hit. Its fine against the calibre of opposition hes been up against but you would have to think against the best heavyweights in history its bound to be tested at some point and thats where there would be concerns. I think the actual weakness of his chin is overstated though, as is with Lennox Lewis. For me Wlads weakness is he loses composure when hit. Hes not the kind of fighter you could envisage prevailing in a war. He becomes fairly ragged when he gets buzzed and doesnt have much by way of survival instinct. I dont believe he gets layed out cold as soon as someone connects though.

but the last time he was tagged was against Peters in 2005, Wlad was Ko'd 3 times in that fight yet he got up 3 times to win so he can win a fight after being buzzed.

Mayweathers cellmate wrote:People bang on about Wlad's weak chin, but when was the last time he was actually troubled by a punch? - maybe against Peter 8 years ago? Can't think of many other fighters current, or in history, that have gone that long without being hurt. Even the defensive geniuses of Mayweather, Hopkins, Toney, Ward etc have all been in trouble in that that time. It seems a mighty long-shot to pick a guy over Wlad on the basis of him being 'easy to KO' when truth is he's barely tasted a punch in nearly a decade as champion.

Wach stunned him very briefly but in that 8 years Wlad has barely been hit so it's hard to say his chin has improved when guys just don't land on it to find out.

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:He hasnt really had his chin tested in about 6 years but thats because he hasnt been hit. Its fine against the calibre of opposition hes been up against but you would have to think against the best heavyweights in history its bound to be tested at some point and thats where there would be concerns. I think the actual weakness of his chin is overstated though, as is with Lennox Lewis. For me Wlads weakness is he loses composure when hit. Hes not the kind of fighter you could envisage prevailing in a war. He becomes fairly ragged when he gets buzzed and doesnt have much by way of survival instinct. I dont believe he gets layed out cold as soon as someone connects though.

but the last time he was tagged was against Peters in 2005, Wlad was Ko'd 3 times in that fight yet he got up 3 times to win so he can win a fight after being buzzed.

Yeah but thats the last time somebody really got to him. If that were Foreman, Liston or Tyson then he probably doesnt survive. His survivals instincts werent good in that fight. When he Peter got close to him and landed Wlad lost his compusure. Hes become more competent over the years at using his size to tie up fighters but I still think he vulnerable in that regard.

manos de piedra wrote:

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:He hasnt really had his chin tested in about 6 years but thats because he hasnt been hit. Its fine against the calibre of opposition hes been up against but you would have to think against the best heavyweights in history its bound to be tested at some point and thats where there would be concerns. I think the actual weakness of his chin is overstated though, as is with Lennox Lewis. For me Wlads weakness is he loses composure when hit. Hes not the kind of fighter you could envisage prevailing in a war. He becomes fairly ragged when he gets buzzed and doesnt have much by way of survival instinct. I dont believe he gets layed out cold as soon as someone connects though.

but the last time he was tagged was against Peters in 2005, Wlad was Ko'd 3 times in that fight yet he got up 3 times to win so he can win a fight after being buzzed.

Yeah but thats the last time somebody really got to him. If that were Foreman, Liston or Tyson then he probably doesnt survive. His survivals instincts werent good in that fight. When he Peter got close to him and landed Wlad lost his compusure. Hes become more competent over the years at using his size to tie up fighters but I still think he vulnerable in that regard.

He won every round apart from i think 2 rounds where he was knocked down.

But a lot of people are judging the prime wlad of 2009-2011 with the green wlad of 1998 for eg.

Wlad under manny steward in 2009-2011 was so good defensively and so good at jabbing that he was impossible to hit.

If Louis lands on Wlad he hunts him down and finishes the job. Louis always got back up when he got knocked down and only lost one fight before his first retirement so Truss' argument about him have a glass jaw is his usual hobby horses sh!te.

If Wlad lands the right hand with meaning he has Louis in all sorts of trouble.


Truss despises Louis because he is seen by some as the greatest HW ever and that doesn't sit well with a man whose ultimate hero is Muhammad Ali.

Truss sees Ali as the greatest not SRR. That's why he has also run down Sugar Ray all these years. It's pathetic really but what's more pathetic is Az mimicking Truss' sh!te.

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:He hasnt really had his chin tested in about 6 years but thats because he hasnt been hit. Its fine against the calibre of opposition hes been up against but you would have to think against the best heavyweights in history its bound to be tested at some point and thats where there would be concerns. I think the actual weakness of his chin is overstated though, as is with Lennox Lewis. For me Wlads weakness is he loses composure when hit. Hes not the kind of fighter you could envisage prevailing in a war. He becomes fairly ragged when he gets buzzed and doesnt have much by way of survival instinct. I dont believe he gets layed out cold as soon as someone connects though.

but the last time he was tagged was against Peters in 2005, Wlad was Ko'd 3 times in that fight yet he got up 3 times to win so he can win a fight after being buzzed.

Yeah but thats the last time somebody really got to him. If that were Foreman, Liston or Tyson then he probably doesnt survive. His survivals instincts werent good in that fight. When he Peter got close to him and landed Wlad lost his compusure. Hes become more competent over the years at using his size to tie up fighters but I still think he vulnerable in that regard.

He won every round apart from i think 2 rounds where he was knocked down.

But a lot of people are judging the prime wlad of 2009-2011 with the green wlad of 1998 for eg.

Wlad under manny steward in 2009-2011 was so good defensively and so good at jabbing that he was impossible to hit.

He got hit and was all over the place though. He won the rounds easily that he didnt get caught in. When he did get caught, he looked ragged. I dont think he lacks heart as he has usually got back up after being knocked down but at the same time this was Sam Peter, not a genuinely great heavyweight. I dont place too much emphasis on his being floored because plenty of great heavyweights have been floored by inferior opponents. But he didnt look to have great survival instincts when he did get hit. Ultimately I dont think Wlad has the neccessary skill set to come through a brawl. His strength lies in not getting hit. Hes improved over the years but his level of competition hasnt been been all time great heavyweights. I think his skills/size give him a good shot of beating other great heavyweights but there are vulnerabilities there the same as with most of the other great heavyweights.

manos de piedra wrote:

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:He hasnt really had his chin tested in about 6 years but thats because he hasnt been hit. Its fine against the calibre of opposition hes been up against but you would have to think against the best heavyweights in history its bound to be tested at some point and thats where there would be concerns. I think the actual weakness of his chin is overstated though, as is with Lennox Lewis. For me Wlads weakness is he loses composure when hit. Hes not the kind of fighter you could envisage prevailing in a war. He becomes fairly ragged when he gets buzzed and doesnt have much by way of survival instinct. I dont believe he gets layed out cold as soon as someone connects though.

but the last time he was tagged was against Peters in 2005, Wlad was Ko'd 3 times in that fight yet he got up 3 times to win so he can win a fight after being buzzed.

Yeah but thats the last time somebody really got to him. If that were Foreman, Liston or Tyson then he probably doesnt survive. His survivals instincts werent good in that fight. When he Peter got close to him and landed Wlad lost his compusure. Hes become more competent over the years at using his size to tie up fighters but I still think he vulnerable in that regard.

He won every round apart from i think 2 rounds where he was knocked down.

But a lot of people are judging the prime wlad of 2009-2011 with the green wlad of 1998 for eg.

Wlad under manny steward in 2009-2011 was so good defensively and so good at jabbing that he was impossible to hit.

He got hit and was all over the place though. He won the rounds easily that he didnt get caught in. When he did get caught, he looked ragged. I dont think he lacks heart as he has usually got back up after being knocked down but at the same time this was Sam Peter, not a genuinely great heavyweight. I dont place too much emphasis on his being floored because plenty of great heavyweights have been floored by inferior opponents. But he didnt look to have great survival instincts when he did get hit. Ultimately I dont think Wlad has the neccessary skill set to come through a brawl. His strength lies in not getting hit. Hes improved over the years but his level of competition hasnt been been all time great heavyweights. I think his skills/size give him a good shot of beating other great heavyweights but there are vulnerabilities there the same as with most of the other great heavyweights.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bBsTtqdkf0

look at round 5 both Knock downs were the result of illegal punches. The first being a massive rabbit punch to the back of the head (illegal in boxing) and the 2nd happened after peter pushed klitschko do the floor and then punched him in the head when klitschko was on the floor due to peter pushing him down which again is illegal. The 10th round knock down was a reulst of fatigue and stamina issues. peter barely touched him with the punch yet he just fell down and looked knackered.

Against purity again the Knock out was as a result of fatigue and stamina issues. Klitschko ran out of energy and lost.

Against sanders that was a massive punch that knocked klitschko down. Sanders was a massive puncher as shown when he nearly knowcked rahmans head off when they fought and when he punched vitali that nearly made vitali go down and vitali has the best jaw in boxing. No shame in klitschko getting Ko'd by massive sanders punch.

I think people make out that Klitschko has a glass jaw due to the above but most of his Knock downs have been the result of either illegal punches or stamina issues. Klitschko has worked on his stamina massively and so that is not an issue anymore.

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:He hasnt really had his chin tested in about 6 years but thats because he hasnt been hit. Its fine against the calibre of opposition hes been up against but you would have to think against the best heavyweights in history its bound to be tested at some point and thats where there would be concerns. I think the actual weakness of his chin is overstated though, as is with Lennox Lewis. For me Wlads weakness is he loses composure when hit. Hes not the kind of fighter you could envisage prevailing in a war. He becomes fairly ragged when he gets buzzed and doesnt have much by way of survival instinct. I dont believe he gets layed out cold as soon as someone connects though.

but the last time he was tagged was against Peters in 2005, Wlad was Ko'd 3 times in that fight yet he got up 3 times to win so he can win a fight after being buzzed.

Yeah but thats the last time somebody really got to him. If that were Foreman, Liston or Tyson then he probably doesnt survive. His survivals instincts werent good in that fight. When he Peter got close to him and landed Wlad lost his compusure. Hes become more competent over the years at using his size to tie up fighters but I still think he vulnerable in that regard.

He won every round apart from i think 2 rounds where he was knocked down.

But a lot of people are judging the prime wlad of 2009-2011 with the green wlad of 1998 for eg.

Wlad under manny steward in 2009-2011 was so good defensively and so good at jabbing that he was impossible to hit.

He got hit and was all over the place though. He won the rounds easily that he didnt get caught in. When he did get caught, he looked ragged. I dont think he lacks heart as he has usually got back up after being knocked down but at the same time this was Sam Peter, not a genuinely great heavyweight. I dont place too much emphasis on his being floored because plenty of great heavyweights have been floored by inferior opponents. But he didnt look to have great survival instincts when he did get hit. Ultimately I dont think Wlad has the neccessary skill set to come through a brawl. His strength lies in not getting hit. Hes improved over the years but his level of competition hasnt been been all time great heavyweights. I think his skills/size give him a good shot of beating other great heavyweights but there are vulnerabilities there the same as with most of the other great heavyweights.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bBsTtqdkf0

look at round 5 both Knock downs were the result of illegal punches. The first being a massive rabbit punch to the back of the head (illegal in boxing) and the 2nd happened after peter pushed klitschko do the floor and then punched him in the head when klitschko was on the floor due to peter pushing him down which again is illegal. The 10th round knock down was a reulst of fatigue and stamina issues. peter barely touched him with the punch yet he just fell down and looked knackered.

Against purity again the Knock out was as a result of fatigue and stamina issues. Klitschko ran out of energy and lost.

Against sanders that was a massive punch that knocked klitschko down. Sanders was a massive puncher as shown when he nearly knowcked rahmans head off when they fought and when he punched vitali that nearly made vitali go down and vitali has the best jaw in boxing. No shame in klitschko getting Ko'd by massive sanders punch.

I think people make out that Klitschko has a glass jaw due to the above but most of his Knock downs have been the result of either illegal punches or stamina issues. Klitschko has worked on his stamina massively and so that is not an issue anymore.

I dont consider the Brewster or Purrity losses to be an issue of chin, but I think you are looking things from a very glass half full perspective.

The bottom line for me is when he gets caught and hurt he loses his composure and becomes ragged and open. He cant move around the ring well, he doesnt cover up well, he doesnt tie up particularly well. He loses his balance and becomes vulnerable. To put it another way, Ive never really seen him take a great shot and handle it well. Question mark for me.

Hes improved as a fighter in the sense his game has been fine tuned to the point where actually getting at him at all is immensely difficult. But hes been in total control. That would be fine if he was facing fighters of the calibre of Frazier, Foreman, Tyson etc but he isnt so as always there will be question marks there. His stamina has been addressed in the sense that he is more economical with his punches and more measured in his approach. But I still dont think it has been tested in a frenetic, high tempo bout where he isnt in total control of the tempo. He has always been able to box at his own pace. What happens when he cant? Question mark for me.

manos de piedra wrote:

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:He hasnt really had his chin tested in about 6 years but thats because he hasnt been hit. Its fine against the calibre of opposition hes been up against but you would have to think against the best heavyweights in history its bound to be tested at some point and thats where there would be concerns. I think the actual weakness of his chin is overstated though, as is with Lennox Lewis. For me Wlads weakness is he loses composure when hit. Hes not the kind of fighter you could envisage prevailing in a war. He becomes fairly ragged when he gets buzzed and doesnt have much by way of survival instinct. I dont believe he gets layed out cold as soon as someone connects though.

but the last time he was tagged was against Peters in 2005, Wlad was Ko'd 3 times in that fight yet he got up 3 times to win so he can win a fight after being buzzed.

Yeah but thats the last time somebody really got to him. If that were Foreman, Liston or Tyson then he probably doesnt survive. His survivals instincts werent good in that fight. When he Peter got close to him and landed Wlad lost his compusure. Hes become more competent over the years at using his size to tie up fighters but I still think he vulnerable in that regard.

He won every round apart from i think 2 rounds where he was knocked down.

But a lot of people are judging the prime wlad of 2009-2011 with the green wlad of 1998 for eg.

Wlad under manny steward in 2009-2011 was so good defensively and so good at jabbing that he was impossible to hit.

He got hit and was all over the place though. He won the rounds easily that he didnt get caught in. When he did get caught, he looked ragged. I dont think he lacks heart as he has usually got back up after being knocked down but at the same time this was Sam Peter, not a genuinely great heavyweight. I dont place too much emphasis on his being floored because plenty of great heavyweights have been floored by inferior opponents. But he didnt look to have great survival instincts when he did get hit. Ultimately I dont think Wlad has the neccessary skill set to come through a brawl. His strength lies in not getting hit. Hes improved over the years but his level of competition hasnt been been all time great heavyweights. I think his skills/size give him a good shot of beating other great heavyweights but there are vulnerabilities there the same as with most of the other great heavyweights.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bBsTtqdkf0

look at round 5 both Knock downs were the result of illegal punches. The first being a massive rabbit punch to the back of the head (illegal in boxing) and the 2nd happened after peter pushed klitschko do the floor and then punched him in the head when klitschko was on the floor due to peter pushing him down which again is illegal. The 10th round knock down was a reulst of fatigue and stamina issues. peter barely touched him with the punch yet he just fell down and looked knackered.

Against purity again the Knock out was as a result of fatigue and stamina issues. Klitschko ran out of energy and lost.

Against sanders that was a massive punch that knocked klitschko down. Sanders was a massive puncher as shown when he nearly knowcked rahmans head off when they fought and when he punched vitali that nearly made vitali go down and vitali has the best jaw in boxing. No shame in klitschko getting Ko'd by massive sanders punch.

I think people make out that Klitschko has a glass jaw due to the above but most of his Knock downs have been the result of either illegal punches or stamina issues. Klitschko has worked on his stamina massively and so that is not an issue anymore.

I dont consider the Brewster or Purrity losses to be an issue of chin, but I think you are looking things from a very glass half full perspective.

The bottom line for me is when he gets caught and hurt he loses his composure and becomes ragged and open. He cant move around the ring well, he doesnt cover up well, he doesnt tie up particularly well. He loses his balance and becomes vulnerable. To put it another way, Ive never really seen him take a great shot and handle it well. Question mark for me.

Hes improved as a fighter in the sense his game has been fine tuned to the point where actually getting at him at all is immensely difficult. But hes been in total control. That would be fine if he was facing fighters of the calibre of Frazier, Foreman, Tyson etc but he isnt so as always there will be question marks there. His stamina has been addressed in the sense that he is more economical with his punches and more measured in his approach. But I still dont think it has been tested in a frenetic, high tempo bout where he isnt in total control of the tempo. He has always been able to box at his own pace. What happens when he cant? Question mark for me.

because he never takes any hits. 10-15 years ago he had stamina issues and got knocked out due to that but apart from stamina and illegal punches he never really has been punched hard in the face (sanders fight excluded as discussed above).