Won the lottery?

The title is a phrase beloved of dear old Trussman, and is generally used by him to describe the Mike McCallum left hook that separated Don Curry from his senses.

Of course, I fundamentally disagree with the implication in this case, since McCallum was boxing his way into the fight and causing Don serious discomfort to the body when the KO came, but there have undoubtedly been occasions when it is the only description of a fight-ending punch. There have been times when a fighter is apparently on the verge of being stopped or losing a landslide decision, only to turn the fight his way with a Hail Mary blow (as opposed to a well-constructed attack).

Of these, the most obvious examples to me are LaMotta beating Laurent-Dauthuille with a few seconds left in their fight, Mike Weaver's last gasp pole-axing of John Tate, Iran Barkley's eyes-closed haymaker to see off Hearns, Julian Jackson's piledriver to prevent Herol Graham from claiming a seemingly inevitable victory and the astonishing punch that turned Jorge Castro's fight against John David Jackson in his favour.

Any other examples, where blind luck, as against a skilful turning of the tide, has changed the destiny of a fight?

Would guess you would have to add Audley against Sprott to the list, a country mile behind on points and with seconds on the clock he had only one way of winning and he found it. As this was enough to secure him the PPV payday against Haye and seven figure payday even fits the bill of a lottery win punch as well.

What was John david Jackson doing ???? The worst I've ever seen that one....

Toney - Nunn..........

Would it be fair to chuck in Ezzard Charles - Marciano 2 ???

How about Castilio v Corrales

Robinsons ko of Turpin after getting cut.

Chavez - Taylor

Garcia v Khan is worth a shout imo

Although did not change the destiny of the fight

Henry Coopers famous hammer against Ali probably changed the destiny of the fighter himself as he dined off that forever!

Similarities between Marciano-Charles II and Robbo-Turpin II, I must say. However, I think luck is perhaps pushing it there. Both winners knew that they were in injury trouble and had little time to do what was necessary. Yes, therefore, desperation was their motivation, but I'm not sure that we could say that their fight-ending attacks were fortunate.

Toney-Nunn is a good one and I think Corrales-Castillo may be as well, even though it may sell Corrales a bit short for the sheer willpower he showed in even being able to continue at that stage, much less win the fight.

Chacon's ko of Limon after a great fight catching Limon on the jaw and Limon staggering backward and falling only for Chacon to add 1 more right hand before Limon's head hit the canvas.

My fav fight

Cowdell - Nelson...........Certainly outworked him for the first two minutes of the fight!!.......

Dear Old Azumah..never was a better fighter who could intimidate fighters and make them work twice as hard as they wanted to.. without throwing much in return..

captain carrantuohil wrote:Similarities between Marciano-Charles II and Robbo-Turpin II, I must say. However, I think luck is perhaps pushing it there. Both winners knew that they were in injury trouble and had little time to do what was necessary. Yes, therefore, desperation was their motivation, but I'm not sure that we could say that their fight-ending attacks were fortunate.

Toney-Nunn is a good one and I think Corrales-Castillo may be as well, even though it may sell Corrales a bit short for the sheer willpower he showed in even being able to continue at that stage, much less win the fight.

Fortunate perhaps in regards to there opponents lack of awareness.............Perhaps both could have spoiled more.........

But I concede your point.....They made their own luck..

Truss, I've never been able to assess the Taylor-Chavez fight properly, to be truthful. There was no doubt in my mind that Taylor was well ahead after 11, and yet the physical evidence was clear that all the while he was racking up the points, he was suffering a career-shortening beating as well. Never really seen the like of it before or since.

I guess Chavez was fortunate that his fight-ending combo landed as late as it did, but it wasn't a total bolt from the blue that it actually happened. With the benefit of hindsight, the last three rounds of that fight were never leading to anything good for Meldrick.

Enbanks v Watson.

Eubank put on his backside only to unleash an uppercut from hell on Watson who was winning the fight.

Eubank needed something big after getting off the floor sad that it was that punch that injured Watson

With respect, Onetwo, that was not a KO of Limon by Chacon, but the exclamation mark on one of the most dramatic decisions wins of all time. It happened in the last twenty or so seconds of their fifteen-rounder and confirmed Chacon's heroic and deserved victory. Can't be said to have changed the course of the fight, however.

Foreman v Moorer?

This is excellent, chaps. Like both Foreman-Moorer and Eubank-Watson II very much as examples.

Wasn't Fitzsimmons creaming Jeffriies in their second fight???

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Wasn't Fitzsimmons creaming Jeffriies in their second fight???

He was certainly having the better of the argument Truss as was Corbett in his fight with Fitz

Where would Johnson v Ketchal stand.

Did'nt Ketchal put Johnson flat on his back only for the big smoke to get up a deliver a murderous right hand on Ketchals kisser.

He did onetwo but there is so much mystery and shadiness around the fight it is difficult to say exactly what happened. The most commonly accepted version is the two fighters agreed beforehand that as the fight was being filmed they would gently spar for a few rounds to ensure the fight went a good distance, as the thought was that a longer fight would sell better in theatres. At a pre agreed point they would either let Johnson win or start fighting properly.

However Stanley decided he had a chance at the biggest prize in the world and decided to renege on the deal and try a sneaky knockout of Jack. When he did this he did manage to put Johnson down but Johnson got a little angry, promptly rose and knocked Ketchel into next week. The rumour is he hit him so hard he had two of Stanley’s front teeth embedded in his glove.

Rowley wrote:He did onetwo but there is so much mystery and shadiness around the fight it is difficult to say exactly what happened. The most commonly accepted version is the two fighters agreed beforehand that as the fight was being filmed they would gently spar for a few rounds to ensure the fight went a good distance, as the thought was that a longer fight would sell better in theatres. At a pre agreed point they would either let Johnson win or start fighting properly.

However Stanley decided he had a chance at the biggest prize in the world and decided to renege on the deal and try a sneaky knockout of Jack. When he did this he did manage to put Johnson down but Johnson got a little angry, promptly rose and knocked Ketchel into next week. The rumour is he hit him so hard he had two of Stanley’s front teeth embedded in his glove.

Jeeez never knew about the teeth bit. Thats put me of my lunch.

Cheers jeff

Would I be wrong to put forward Robinson v Fulmer.

was'nt Robinson behind on points before he unleashed the perfect left hook.?

He was behind, but it was only the 5th round in all fairness, Onetwo! A touch early to say that Robbo was moving irrevocably to defeat, I would think. It certainly changed the course of the fight, but I can't find it within myself to ascribe the most technically perfect and aesthetically pleasing punch ever thrown to anything as tawdry as luck.

"He doublecrossed me and I made him pay for it"

He certainly did...

It's already been touched upon, but Castro against JDJ was the definition of a lottery punch down to a tee. Some of the rounds in that one were embarrassingly one-sided in Jackson's favour and the amount of punishment which Castro soaked up was insane.

Again, I'm afraid I'm going to have to bore everyone with my Toney obsession when it comes to his win over Nunn! The knockout wasn't totally out of the blue; from round seven onwards, Toney was coming in to the fight more and more and, for me, had the best of it from there on in. 'Second To' was badly under the cosh as the fight reached the championship rounds. Toney was befuddled and clearly outboxed for the first half of the fight, sure, but I don't particularly think that 'lottery win' applies to that one.

Tyson was in dire straights before finding that single, perfect short right hand against Botha.

What about Julio Cesar Vasquez against Carl Daniels (or was it Robert Allen? My memory is slightly hazy!). The Argentine was a street behind on the cards before (again, if I'm remembering rightly!) a kind of lunging and gun barrel straight cross turned the tide in his favour. One hell of a one-punch turnaround, that.

Domestically, there's Benn against Logan and, of course, Eubank's right uppercut Watson. Gary Jacobs fell foul to a similar fate, too. I believe the fight was sandwiched inbetween his losses to McGirt and Whitaker, but I saw it and Jacobs clearly outboxed his man before being poleaxed with a single huge shot late on - it may even have been the last round. Again, much to my dismay, I can't remember who it was against! Ggggrr....

Anyway, while we're on the subject of insane turnarounds or lady luck giving a helping hand, I have to inform anyone who hasn't seen it (I suspect a couple may have done) about an incredible fight I discovered recently, which is available in full on YouTube for anyone who is interested. Soo Hwan Hong was a capable Bantamweight performer in the seventies but captured his world title, the WBA Super-Bantamweight belt, in 1977 against Hector Carrasquilla. If anyone hasn't seen it, then you should definitely check it out. I can't post the link right now, but I was very glad that I stumbled across it and I'm sure you will be as well!

Kennedy McKinney knocking out Welcome Ncita in a world title super bantamweight dust up, springs to mind. Although lottery might be an overstatement the South African was ahead on all scorecards when Kennedy hit Ncita with a howitzer of a hook, knocking him out cold.



And how about Tyson v Botha is that worth a shout ? Tyson looked woeful and not too far off completely flipping and going into meltdown before he found that peach of a right hand,

Cheers Rodders

Benn v Logan is a great shout. Forgot about that haha

captain carrantuohil wrote:He was behind, but it was only the 5th round in all fairness, Onetwo! A touch early to say that Robbo was moving irrevocably to defeat, I would think. It certainly changed the course of the fight, but I can't find it within myself to ascribe the most technically perfect and aesthetically pleasing punch ever thrown to anything as tawdry as luck.

Your right captain.

Stupid of me to even question it.

Obviously not as knowledgable as 99% of you in boxing ( trussman and az are in the 1%) but the two that spring to mind are when George foreman won the title for the last time and also one of my guilty pleasure fights - Jesse Brinkley vs bonsante

Bonecrusher vs Bruno......................

You guys won't probably have heard of our 80's cheesy cop IBF lightweight champ Harry Arroyo (butter wouldn't have melted in his mouth).......

As I recall he was being schooled by nearly man Terrence Alli when he landed a hayemaker.......Referee actually let it go on and could have had him killed.

Dempsey Sharkey is worth a mention. Dempsey was losing that one handily before he caught Sharkey when he was not paying attention. Got Jack another crack at Tunney and yet another million dollar gate payday.

A bit leftfield how about Jason Cook v Sandro Casamonica, European Lightweight title

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTA_JFcnzRQ

Perhaps less likely but I was thinking about this earlier today (not sure why) Frank Bruno v Lennox Lewis, Bruno possibly ahead on the cards, attacking Lewis then walking on to a huge left hook?

Bonecrusher-Bruno an outstanding example. If you'd told me after nine rounds of that one that not only would Smith KO Bruno in the next round, but would go on to fight Holmes for the title, cause him loads of trouble, then take the WBA crown with a one-round blow-out of 'Spoon, I'd never have believed you. Truly, I remember thinking that he was no better than most of the rest of the patsies that Bruno had previously lined up to smooth his way to a shot at the title.

Froch vs Taylor

Would Louis v Conn figure in this list or was Conn just stupid?

Bit of both, Onetwo, I would say. Conn himself thought that he had been "a dumb Irishman" for trading with Louis, but he was convinced that he could KO him at that stage. Joe was therefore extremely fortunate that Conn's fighting brain went on the blink at such a critical point. On the other hand, there was nothing remotely lucky about the way in which Louis made Billy pay for his idiocy and he deserves all the credit for making the most of his window of opportunity.

The Conn Louis fight was a bit closer than it is actually portrayed. However as I cannot be bothered to go through it again will post a link to this

https://www.606v2.com/t997-louis-conn-nailing-the-myths?highlight=nailing+the+myths

Pretty sure Gatti had a lucky escape against someone but as I am at work can't check on it.

Hearns v Barkley 1.

To go along with the ones I offered up earlier, and spanning all eras....

'Peerless' Jim, in his final fight and already ailing from the condition which would eventually kill him, was apparently bossing Charles Le Doux, who was France's first ever world champion, all over the ring for sixteen rounds before the Frenchman found a thunderous body shot out of nowhere.

Fighting Harada was boxing nicely and looking very well placed for a win against long-time Bantamweight contender Jose Medel before he walked on to a massive shot that he couldn't recover from, eventually being stopped soon after.

Carlos Palomino was struggling against Dave 'Boy' Green in one of his Welterweight title defences before pulling it out of the fire with his trademark left hook.

And only last year, we can probably add Randall Bailey's uppercut against Mike Jones, given that Jones only needed to stay on his feet for those final few minutes to get his hands on the IBF belt.

Mike Weaver/Big John Tate. Final round and 45 seconds to go with Tate streets ahead. One punch from Hercules changed all that.

This is only obliquely related to the thread, but in my first incarnarion as a sparring boxer (about 12 years old 4'10 and overweight) I survived two rounds against a local amateur champ, got cocky threw a hail mary overhand left, missed it and was dropped by a punch to the gut.

Needless to say, it hurt and I dissapeared from the gym for three years, took up cricket and came back a foot taller. The moral of the story is not every Hail Mary ends with your hands in the air

Although I agree with both of your contributions, az, I have a sneaking suspicion that you may not have read the whole of my preamble to this thread! Quite understandable, of course....

captain carrantuohil wrote:Although I agree with both of your contributions, az, I have a sneaking suspicion that you may not have read the whole of my preamble to this thread! Quite understandable, of course....

I went back and read it again and when I got to thiis bit:

Any other examples, where blind luck, as against a skilful turning of the tide, has changed the destiny of a fight

There is only one fight that can spring to mind.

When Fan Man flew into the Bowe v Holyfield fight. Holyfield was tiring and going to lose but the 45 minute delay gave him a second wind.

captain carrantuohil wrote:Truss, I've never been able to assess the Taylor-Chavez fight properly, to be truthful. There was no doubt in my mind that Taylor was well ahead after 11, and yet the physical evidence was clear that all the while he was racking up the points, he was suffering a career-shortening beating as well. Never really seen the like of it before or since.

I guess Chavez was fortunate that his fight-ending combo landed as late as it did, but it wasn't a total bolt from the blue that it actually happened. With the benefit of hindsight, the last three rounds of that fight were never leading to anything good for Meldrick.

Is the common consensus that the stoppage was the correct call in that fight, captain? Huge decision to make that late on!

I've been doing plenty of digging thanks to this thread, so thanks

It wsn't the common consensus at the time...........especially with the red lights flashing behind him.......

Same referee as Hearns-Barkley It has to be remembered!!

Was Holy not the man in ascendency at the point of fan man ?

It's a while since I've watched the fight, but from memory remember Bowe come steaming out the traps taking all the first 3 rounds, then the next 3 Holy really piling it on with Bowe looking gassed to hell.

Cheers Rodders

captain carrantuohil wrote:Although I agree with both of your contributions, az, I have a sneaking suspicion that you may not have read the whole of my preamble to this thread! Quite understandable, of course....

D'oh!

This fight did not end in a ko but 1 fighter got very lucky indeed.

De La Hoya v Trinidad

Oscar was cruising in this fight but with 4 rounds to go decided to jump on his bike and coast.

The decision went to Trinidad lol.

For five seconds Fan man had the best seat in the house.......No wonder the ringsiders were so upset........Having shipped out $2,000 bucks for the privilege.