HC final 2013 - ASM Clermont Auvergne Vs RC Toulonnais - Teams announced etc

First topic message reminder :

I thought I would start a thread since teams are now announced. Appreciate this 100% french final might not draw loads of interest but it's still a game of rugby that will eventually decide who will be the next european top dog after years of Leinster dominance.

so here are the matchday 23 teams :

ASMCA :

15. Lee Byrne, 14. Sitiveni Sivivatu, 13. Aurélien Rougerie, 12. Wesley Fofana, 11. Napolioni Nalaga, 10. Brock James, 9. Morgan Parra, 1. Thomas Domingo, 2. Benjamin Kayser, 3. Davit Zirakashvili, 4. Jamie Cudmore, 5. Nathan Hines, 6. Julien Bonnaire, 7. Gerhard Vosloo, 8. Damien Chouly

subs 16. Ti'i Paulo, 17. Vincent Debaty, 18. Clément Ric, 19. Julien Pierre, 20. Julien Bardy, 21. Ludovic Radoslavjevic , 22. David Skrela, 23. Regan King

RCT :

15. Delon Armitage, 14. Rudi Wulf, 13. Mathieu Bastareaud, 12. Matt Giteau, 11. Alexis Palisson, 10. Jonny Wilkinson, 9. Sébastien Tillous-Borde, 1. Andrew Sheridan, 2. Sebastien Bruno, 3. Carl Hayman, 4. Bakkies Botha, 5. Nick Kennedy, 6. Danie Rossouw, 7. Juan Fernandez Lobbe, 8. Chris Masoe
subs : 16. Jean-Charles Orioli, 17. Gethin Jenkins, 18. Davit Kubriashvili, 19. Joe van Niekerk, 20. Steffon Armitage, 21. Maxime Mermoz, 22. Frederic Michalak, 23. Jocelino Suta,

It seems that there is finally very little injuries and should the weather be nice, we shall hope for a good game of rugby.
Some interesting matchups and questions:
- Will Domingo manage to deal with Hayman power (pushed by Botha and Rossow!!).
- Who will shine between Fernandez-Lobbe and Bonnaire who are quite similar players in terms of class and ability (very smooth line out operators, not very powerful but very efficient in the rucks)
- Who between Fofana and Giteau will have the most space to express themselves?
- Will Wilkinson score more than 20 points?
- Can Palisson outpace sivivatu?
- Will Cudmore get the 1st yellow card?

Wow, Clermont bottled it big time

What the hell was Skrela doing in the last 5 minutes? Lying at the bottom of at least 2 rucks and his scrum half was looking for him at least twice.

Best team lost, gutted for Clermont - two years running they have been so close, they were the best team in the competition this year

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Damn!!! Looks like you can buy the HC

That has done so much damage to rugby union in the NH, the HC is officially up for auction to the highest bidder from here on in!

profitius wrote:Could someone tell me how the Smeg Clermont managed to throw that game away???? Flukiest HEC win ever.

Harsh, I thought Toulon battered them at the breakdown and won the collisions. Clermont should have won but the team with most points deserves the title.

Agree Bluesman. The Toulon sugar daddy is going to throw even more money at Toulon now.

thebluesmancometh wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Damn!!! Looks like you can buy the HC

That has done so much damage to rugby union in the NH, the HC is officially up for auction to the highest bidder from here on in!

We knew that when Munster went out.

Well done Toulon, a win is a win. My god they are a boring team to watch. Clermont were fantastic this season. Incredible backline.

Ah well, back to the S15. Heineken Cup may be the best the NH can do, but the S15 is still a class above.

thebluesmancometh wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Damn!!! Looks like you can buy the HC

That has done so much damage to rugby union in the NH, the HC is officially up for auction to the highest bidder from here on in!

It has noticeably done the most damage to french international rugby.

As many others, I'm gutted to see Toulon buy the Heineken Cup. Hope it doesn't signal a new era for European competition.

Cotter takes one step backwards from accepting the Scotland job.

I hope to hell that Clermont win the Top 14 final. Really quite worried he'll stay in France for another year if they don't.

maestegmafia wrote:
Well done Toulon, a win is a win. My god they are a boring team to watch. Clermont were fantastic this season. Incredible backline.

True but when the games are tight they've been shown to lack balls. That was a total omnishambles at the end. You don't win the Heino in the group stages, once again they've shown they simply aren't good enough.

thebluesmancometh wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Damn!!! Looks like you can buy the HC

That has done so much damage to rugby union in the NH, the HC is officially up for auction to the highest bidder from here on in!

Clermont isn't eactly poor either in finances.........

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Ah well, back to the S15. Heineken Cup may be the best the NH can do, but the S15 is still a class above.

Totally disagree! Nothing comes close to the HC.

Really harsh on Clermont, they looked the best side for most of the match and this European season, but when it came down to it Toulon probably showed enough grit at the right moments. I guess that's what a side full of experienced internationals gives you despite what it lacks in other areas.

The expected rematch in the Top 14 final should be a cracker!

maestegmafia wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Damn!!! Looks like you can buy the HC

That has done so much damage to rugby union in the NH, the HC is officially up for auction to the highest bidder from here on in!

We knew that when Munster went out.

Well done Toulon, a win is a win. My god they are a boring team to watch. Clermont were fantastic this season. Incredible backline.

I can't describe how dissapointed I am with that result, I know CA have spent a lot too, but at least theyve built a team with a style and ethos instead of just signing every guy who has a run of good games on the int stage, this is a dark day for the sport up here, Metro, Toulon and numerous others will now look to open their chequebooks even further in an attempt keep up with the jones's.

Sadly also the gameplan in which Toulon employ will be mimic'd by others too!

The French national team will suffer for this too!

SecretFly wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Damn!!! Looks like you can buy the HC

That has done so much damage to rugby union in the NH, the HC is officially up for auction to the highest bidder from here on in!

Clermont isn't eactly poor either in finances.........

Yeah that's true I suppose. Clermont actually have a bigger budget than Toulon.

And I'm sure no rugby fan will begrudge Wilkinson his medal.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Ah well, back to the S15. Heineken Cup may be the best the NH can do, but the S15 is still a class above.

Totally disagree! Nothing comes close to the HC.

Perhaps that is because you can watch your own team compete? I have had the pleasure of watching more S15 games this year and if I am totally honest it is a class above. In almost every way.

Quite scary actually.

Feckless Rogue wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Damn!!! Looks like you can buy the HC

That has done so much damage to rugby union in the NH, the HC is officially up for auction to the highest bidder from here on in!

Clermont isn't eactly poor either in finances.........

Yeah that's true I suppose. Clermont actually have a bigger budget than Toulon.

And I'm sure no rugby fan will begrudge Wilkinson his medal.

He's already got a medal from a different tournament... talk about greedy!

That whole Toulon pack will need to be replaced in a couple of years because they are all over 30.

We need to tie down our irish players now.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:That whole Toulon pack will need to be replaced in a couple of years because they are all over 30.

We need to tie down our irish players now.

I doubt they will be that interested..

Feel sorry for Clermont, but also pleased for JW, Kennedy, Sheridan (not D.Armitage), S.Armitage. Good to see English talent ruling Europe

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Ah well, back to the S15. Heineken Cup may be the best the NH can do, but the S15 is still a class above.

Totally disagree! Nothing comes close to the HC.

Perhaps that is because you can watch your own team compete? I have had the pleasure of watching more S15 games this year and if I am totally honest it is a class above. In almost every way.

Quite scary actually.

No I would watch any HC match whether Leinster are playing or not before any super 15 game. Ive watched plenty of super 15 this year and last year and too me it doesnt even come close for entertainment.

I wish I could agree, LeinsterFan.

rodders wrote:

profitius wrote:Could someone tell me how the Smeg Clermont managed to throw that game away???? Flukiest HEC win ever.

Harsh, I thought Toulon battered them at the breakdown and won the collisions. Clermont should have won but the team with most points deserves the title.

Toulon created nothing throughout the game. I have literally never seen a team win a final having created so little scoring chances. Toulon scored 1 try in 3 games, todays try which came from a Clermont mistake.

A lot of people saying Toulon bought the Heineken Cup, but they're apparently not the top spenders in France, so money clearly isn't all there is to it.

It was interesting reading the ESPN piece by Tom Hamilton with Nick Kennedy on the reality within the Toulon camp compared to many's perception of them.

http://www.espnscrum.com/heineken-cup-2012-13/rugby/story/182865.html

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Ah well, back to the S15. Heineken Cup may be the best the NH can do, but the S15 is still a class above.

Totally disagree! Nothing comes close to the HC.

Perhaps that is because you can watch your own team compete? I have had the pleasure of watching more S15 games this year and if I am totally honest it is a class above. In almost every way.

Quite scary actually.

I wouldn't go that far, the rugby is more open, and the styles are far different but if we had some sort of world club championship I'd bet Leinster, Toulon and Cleremont would mix it with the best of them!!!

I'd call the rugby different, I personally enjoy the arm wrestle of some of the NH games as much as the 38 all draw types of super rugber!

Hello everybody, I'm new and I'd like to try and contribute something meaningful to this forum going forward. First up, I'd like to raise some questions and see what you think about it:
1) How on earth did Toulon manage to steal that Heineken Cup from Clermont?
2) Who will now be ERC Player of the year? It surely can't be Fofana or Sivivatu anymore, nor Bonnaire... And Wilkinson? Not on today's showing...

More open, faster, more physical, MUCH more skilful (in the forwards and the backs).

Much more entertaining, much better players involved.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:More open, faster, more physical, MUCH more skilful (in the forwards and the backs).

Much more entertaining, much better players involved.

Thats interesting the difference in opinion because I actually find the super 15 boring especially when SA teams play.

Even Biltong said the HC had more memorable games.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:More open, faster, more physical, MUCH more skilful (in the forwards and the backs).

Much more entertaining, much better players involved.

Nope. There is some real guff in super rugby too looking decent, Sam norton knight jumps to mind, playing ok but was the worst pro rugby player I had ever seen at the Blues!!!

Well done and congratulations to Danie Rossouw and Bakkies Botha for now having won a Super Rugby title, HC title and RWC.

Cloggie wrote:Hello everybody, I'm new and I'd like to try and contribute something meaningful to this forum going forward. First up, I'd like to raise some questions and see what you think about it:
1) How on earth did Toulon manage to steal that Heineken Cup from Clermont?
2) Who will now be ERC Player of the year? It surely can't be Fofana or Sivivatu anymore, nor Bonnaire... And Wilkinson? Not on today's showing...

Players of the Year should not be based or even really swayed by one game

thebluesmancometh wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:More open, faster, more physical, MUCH more skilful (in the forwards and the backs).

Much more entertaining, much better players involved.

Nope. There is some real guff in super rugby too looking decent, Sam norton knight jumps to mind, playing ok but was the worst pro rugby player I had ever seen at the Blues!!!

Nope..

But seriously, I think we are really clutching at straws if we are trying to base the competition on the failure of one player who moved abroad to a NH competition. Shall I mention the amount of players who have shown to be a class above? For every Norton Knight, there is a Pienaar, Nacewa, Howlett, Elsom, Afoa, Payne.. and plenty more.

How many finals have Clermont lost now? Like 15?

Feel sorry for Rougerie - he's such a gent.

Delon Armitage - a terrible indictment of rugby

As, Stag, Dreamer, KiwiPete in Dublin

Once Skrela came on the pitch, I knew it was over. Clermont with all their firepower couldnt go through Toulon very abrasive defense who dominated the rucks after the 60th minute. The bench might have made the difference. Gutted for bonnaire, rougerie and co. I guess they are getting closer year by year.
I think Sivivatu should get the award, he had another great game today. Fofana wasnt seen a lot. Bastareaud had a great impact today though. Who got MOTM? (I switched off after the wistle).

I will have to rewatch it but in the last minute i'm pretty sure Regan King could have scored the try by himself instead of passing it to the replacement hooker.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:More open, faster, more physical, MUCH more skilful (in the forwards and the backs).

Much more entertaining, much better players involved.

Nope. There is some real guff in super rugby too looking decent, Sam norton knight jumps to mind, playing ok but was the worst pro rugby player I had ever seen at the Blues!!!

Nope..

But seriously, I think we are really clutching at straws if we are trying to base the competition on the failure of one player who moved abroad to a NH competition. Shall I mention the amount of players who have shown to be a class above? For every Norton Knight, there is a Pienaar, Nacewa, Howlett, Elsom, Afoa, Payne.. and plenty more.

Oh I agree, and I wasn't basing it all on one player, there are plenty of them! Of the players you list though most signed with big reputations, for big money deals at winning clubs, for every one of those players theres an unsuccesfull version who has traveled north and 2 more still playing super rugby!

whocares wrote:Once Skrela came on the pitch, I knew it was over. Clermont with all their firepower couldnt go through Toulon very abrasive defense who dominated the rucks after the 60th minute. The bench might have made the difference. Gutted for bonnaire, rougerie and co. I guess they are getting closer year by year.
I think Sivivatu should get the award, he had another great game today. Fofana wasnt seen a lot. Bastareaud had a great impact today though. Who got MOTM? (I switched off after the wistle).

Fat Bastareaud was MOTM and gave a very gracious interview accepting it.

ROG, Ryan and Quinnel gave fairly good analysis of the game. Who was that 10 year old who presenting the programme for Sky though?
I could have slapped him purple. He couldn't manage to utter two sentences in succession without squealing the words 'Jonny Wilkinson'.

Get Wilkinson to oz!

t1000advancedprototype wrote:Get Wilkinson to oz!

No need. Leigh Halfpenny can take the kicks.

Is it me or is d armitage a really in unpleasant bad sport

t1000advancedprototype wrote:Get Wilkinson to oz!

Why

All he did was kick some goals.

Riskysports wrote:Is it me or is d armitage a really in unpleasant bad sport

It was a bit of a dick move

Well done Danie and Bakkis. Most successful rugby players ever

RWC
Multiple Currie Cups, Super 15 and Tri Nations
British and Irish Lions Series win
And HC

Legends!

Biltong wrote:Well done and congratulations to Danie Rossouw and Bakkies Botha for now having won a Super Rugby title, HC title and RWC.

I always thought Danie Rossouw was a fantastic player. Rather underrated but in the 2007 World Cup, that SA back row was terrifying.

MMaaxx wrote:Well done Danie and Bakkis. Most successful rugby players ever

RWC
Multiple Currie Cups, Super 15 and Tri Nations
British and Irish Lions Series win
And HC

Legends!

Brad Thorn did it first

wales606 wrote:

MMaaxx wrote:Well done Danie and Bakkis. Most successful rugby players ever

RWC
Multiple Currie Cups, Super 15 and Tri Nations
British and Irish Lions Series win
And HC

Legends!

Brad Thorn did it first

yeah, but Danie and Bakkies did it better.