Wales to lose to Japan this summer?

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I think a loss to Japan is starting to look very likely after our recent injuries and the squad announcement/cuts. What is McBryde thinking!

Forwards: Ryan Bevington (Ospreys), Rhys Gill (Saracens), Emyr Phillips (Scarlets), Scott Baldwin (Ospreys), Scott Andrews (Blues), Craig Mitchell (Exeter Chiefs), Rhodri Jones (Scarlets), Bradley Davies (Blues), Lou Reed (Blues), Andrew Coombs (Dragons), James King (Ospreys), Aaron Shingler (Scarlets), Dan Baker (Ospreys), Rob McCusker (Scarlets), Andries Pretorius (Blues).

Backs: Lloyd Williams (Blues), Tavis Knoyle (Scarlets), Dan Biggar (Ospreys), Rhys Patchell (Blues), Ashley Beck (Ospreys), Owen Williams (Blues), Jonathan Spratt (Ospreys), Dafydd Howells (Ospreys), Liam Williams (Scarlets), Harry Robinson (Blues), Tom Prydie (Dragons), Steven Shingler (London Irish).

We've recently lost Ken Owens to injury and have two hookers who aren't regulars for their Region in contention. Big loss for us because Ken was having a good season and perhaps not far from Lions selection.
Our only openside Josh Navidi has been cut from the squad(?) and that leaves us with a back row mostly consisting of No.6's. Our 8's; Pretorius is just rubbish and has hardly played rugby this season as far as I know and Dan Baker is a Premiership player.
The No.9's haven't played well....one has barely played at all. The two best 9's available (Gareth Davies, Jonathan Evans) have been overlooked.
Our reserve 10 should be playing at the JWC. Hopefully he doesn't get injured and miss every rugby tournament this summer. Maybe Owen Williams should have been chosen instead. Unfortunately Priestland picked up an injury, I think his experience would have been vital on this tour.
Nobody has heard of the 18 year old bolter Howells. His selection is both surprising and pointless given we had other options available such as Ben John, Adam Hughes, perhaps Adam Warren if he was not on Sevens duty.
Back 3 might be a little weak with Robinson and Shingler there.

Japan have a good coach and seem pretty confident of turning us over. Does anyone else remember them play pretty well not so long ago in a world cup? I think this series could end 1-all.

Won't happen.

Wales should have 5 teams capable of beating Japan.

Considering your backrow is looking a little light especially at 8, is there a case to be made to get delve involved again especially considering his proximity to japan at the moment ? hes only 30 so will be 32 come the world cup...might provide a bit of experiene and leadership in a young group ??

LondonTiger wrote:As a Wales second string squad would apparently beat every other team in the 6Ns, it would be worrying for the rest of us if Wales did lose to Japan.

I'm down with that, he's off to Racing Metro next season FFS

In case anyone's interested, the series against Japan is officially the "Lipovitan D Challenge 2013":

For a description:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lipovitan

For pictures:

http://www.taisho.co.jp/lipovitan/

Another match sponsor is a mattress company. They have used some Italians in the past for advertising. Castro here:

http://www.sankeibiz.jp/business/photos/130522/prl1305221111028-p4.htm

And who is broadcaster?

Maybe I was being pessimistic.

maestegmafia wrote:And who is broadcaster?

I'd like to know this too

What time are these games and will they be televised?

We will win both games in Japan, Robbie McBryde has the best track record of any welsh coach. He has a 100% win record as Head Coach (Caretaker), Forwards COach of two Grandslam Winning sides, and Forwards Coach of a 6 Nations Championship winning/defending side. I have no worries that he will let us down. We have a pretty decent squad really, and whilst a few players who should have been there are missing, it should still be able to do a job.

Bevington
E Phillips
Mitchell
B Davies
Reed
Coombs
Shingler
McCusker

Ll Williams
Patchell
Li Williams
Beck
O Williams
Robinson
Prydie

(Bench -: Baldwin, Gill, Andrews, King, Petorious, Knoyle, BIggar, Spratt)

Yes that will probably be the team SS, but with Biggar to start. I'd also like to see Coombs at 6 for Wales.

The Saint wrote:Yes that will probably be the team SS, but with Biggar to start. I'd also like to see Coombs at 6 for Wales.

Without a proper 7 it is possible Coombes will play in the backrow

However, with Baker and Pretorious in the squad I doubt McCucker will start at 8.

Pretorious' best position is still at 6 though

Both of those options at 8 are so poor.

Im looking forward to this hope its televised . i like to see patchell start .

Pretorious and Reed aren't needed. I would rather see youth or a decent player in their place. If we really have to take guys like these two shouldn't Ollie Kohn be ahead of Reed and Bearman ahead of Petorious?

Coombs and Davies second row. Backrow is tricky but let's see what Baker can do with Shingler and King alongside him.

Also I would probably suggest Baldwin ahead of Phillips.

The Saint wrote:Both of those options at 8 are so poor.

: i bet Ben Morgan kicking himself now he would have had a chance

maestegmafia wrote:Pretorious and Reed aren't needed. I would rather see youth or a decent player in their place. If we really have to take guys like these two shouldn't Ollie Kohn be ahead of Reed and Bearman ahead of Petorious?

Coombs and Davies second row. Backrow is tricky but let's see what Baker can do with Shingler and King alongside him.

Also I would probably suggest Baldwin ahead of Phillips.

Baldwin's lineout throwing under pressure is a serious issue

Pretorious is 27, Bearman is 34

Reed is 25, Kohn is 32

This tour should not be a capped tour as so many first team players are un available with the Lions or "rested". I suspect Pontypridd or the Dragons would beat Japan unless they fill the team with Kiwi's.

The Saint wrote:Fair point about our front 5. We'll need more than that to win though. More injuries will be disastrous for our cause.

Jhamer25 wrote:

as far as I know and Dan Baker is a Premiership player.

Couldn't be more wrong.He is much more than that, every star starts from somewhere. Dan is in the premiership now yes but in the not to far distant future I can see him being the Welsh number 8. You must have missed last years six nations
We missed out on Ben Morgan but he is like a younger version of Ben (literally I think they duplicated a ginger version).
He is what that team will need, brute strength.

Well if you've gone on to say "he's in the premiership now" then how can I be more wrong? Semi pro to full international honours is a big, big step up. There were options available at the Regions, the professional teams that feed the international team. That was my point. I've watched Baker play for the U20s in the past and I don't think he stood out much.

Because you said all he was, was a premiership player and he is much more than that now, the scarlet's are in talks with him and he will have a lot more game time next season for a regions whetehr it be ospreys or scarlet's he doesn't belong in the premierhsip

Jhamer25 wrote:

The Saint wrote:Fair point about our front 5. We'll need more than that to win though. More injuries will be disastrous for our cause.

Jhamer25 wrote:

as far as I know and Dan Baker is a Premiership player.

Couldn't be more wrong.He is much more than that, every star starts from somewhere. Dan is in the premiership now yes but in the not to far distant future I can see him being the Welsh number 8. You must have missed last years six nations
We missed out on Ben Morgan but he is like a younger version of Ben (literally I think they duplicated a ginger version).
He is what that team will need, brute strength.

Well if you've gone on to say "he's in the premiership now" then how can I be more wrong? Semi pro to full international honours is a big, big step up. There were options available at the Regions, the professional teams that feed the international team. That was my point. I've watched Baker play for the U20s in the past and I don't think he stood out much.

Because you said all he was, was a premiership player and he is much more than that now, the scarlet's are in talks with him and he will have a lot more game time next season for a regions whetehr it be ospreys or scarlet's he doesn't belong in the premierhsip

Number eight is starting to look promising for the future with Ieuan Jones of the under 20s showing great stuff at the Dragons too

The Saint wrote:Both of those options at 8 are so poor.

Really a lot of people seem to e putting this lad back a bit, Don't judge the Kid if you haven't even seen him yet. If you had watched the U20's Six Nations in 2012 you would have seen him have 2 man of the matcher performances.
We missed out on Big ben big time, but this kid is like a incarnation of Ben. He is such a strong ball carrier and can show series skill in hand.
Think people back to 2009 when the likes of Sam warbs and Dan lydiate went on tour, they weren't in the lime light under everyone's radar. Bluddy look at them now.
Baker has the skill, size and power to go very far I mean he is 20 years old, 6 foot 3 and 17.8 stone of pure power.

Those of you who haven't seen him, here is a link to show you just a bot of what Dan is capable of:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/17323199

Why isn't Morgan Allen in there; always seems to do well for those O's. That Baker lad looks very promising, intelligent footballer as well very much in the Scott Quinnell mould

Jhamer25 wrote:

The Saint wrote:Fair point about our front 5. We'll need more than that to win though. More injuries will be disastrous for our cause.

Jhamer25 wrote:

as far as I know and Dan Baker is a Premiership player.

Couldn't be more wrong.He is much more than that, every star starts from somewhere. Dan is in the premiership now yes but in the not to far distant future I can see him being the Welsh number 8. You must have missed last years six nations
We missed out on Ben Morgan but he is like a younger version of Ben (literally I think they duplicated a ginger version).
He is what that team will need, brute strength.

Well if you've gone on to say "he's in the premiership now" then how can I be more wrong? Semi pro to full international honours is a big, big step up. There were options available at the Regions, the professional teams that feed the international team. That was my point. I've watched Baker play for the U20s in the past and I don't think he stood out much.

Because you said all he was, was a premiership player and he is much more than that now, the scarlet's are in talks with him and he will have a lot more game time next season for a regions whetehr it be ospreys or scarlet's he doesn't belong in the premierhsip

No, because he's still a premiership player who could be really far from the level required if and when he gets a cap. This selection is another pointless bolter.

Jhamer25 wrote:

The Saint wrote:Both of those options at 8 are so poor.

Really a lot of people seem to e putting this lad back a bit, Don't judge the Kid if you haven't even seen him yet. If you had watched the U20's Six Nations in 2012 you would have seen him have 2 man of the matcher performances.
We missed out on Big ben big time, but this kid is like a incarnation of Ben. He is such a strong ball carrier and can show series skill in hand.
Think people back to 2009 when the likes of Sam warbs and Dan lydiate went on tour, they weren't in the lime light under everyone's radar. Bluddy look at them now.
Baker has the skill, size and power to go very far I mean he is 20 years old, 6 foot 3 and 17.8 stone of pure power.

Those of you who haven't seen him, here is a link to show you just a bot of what Dan is capable of:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/17323199

You can't be serious. I've watched him at U20 level, that was a poor 6 Nations campaign. Wales were good at the JWC and he didn't stand out much. Not as much as Jenkins or Thomas who are both smaller guys.
He can't be 6 foot 3, Steele towers over him in the clip. Where are you getting all your info from because you don't seem to know much?

RubyGuby wrote:Why isn't Morgan Allen in there; always seems to do well for those O's. That Baker lad looks very promising, intelligent footballer as well very much in the Scott Quinnell mould

Yes Allen would have been a good, justified selection. It also makes more of a mockery of Navidi's omission.

The Saint wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:Why isn't Morgan Allen in there; always seems to do well for those O's. That Baker lad looks very promising, intelligent footballer as well very much in the Scott Quinnell mould

Yes Allen would have been a good, justified selection. It also makes more of a mockery of Navidi's omission.

They explained their reasons for Nalvidi's omission, to be honest he's had a tough season, the rest will do him good.

"They sniff an opportunity. That means....in our minds, selecting some of the best players for the job." Well McBryde has failed on that one so far. I missed what he said about Navidi. What's been tough for him apart from playing a full season of rugby like every other professional player does?

maestegmafia wrote:

The Saint wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:Why isn't Morgan Allen in there; always seems to do well for those O's. That Baker lad looks very promising, intelligent footballer as well very much in the Scott Quinnell mould

Yes Allen would have been a good, justified selection. It also makes more of a mockery of Navidi's omission.

They explained their reasons for Nalvidi's omission, to be honest he's had a tough season, the rest will do him good.

Samson Lee supposedly got overlooked due to his extensive involvement with the Scarlets for his age. Player management etc. Letting Navidi rest over the summer means he'll be fit rested and ready for the new season for the Blues (and Wales if needed) whilst Warbs rests up.

Jhamer25 wrote:Hell no we still have our main strength which is a good front 5. I mean you look at England's and Irelands options with players being rested and on the lions tour. (not Scotland cause apart from 2 players they are full strength) I think we have better front 5 options than them.
I think we still have a very dominant front 5.
Just look at this:
1. Rhys Gill
2. Emyr Phillips
3. Craig Mitchell
4. Bradley Davies
5. Andrew Coombs

Compare that front 5 to England's and Ireland's potential front 5's (because both teams also have a lot of players away).
England:
1. Corbisiero
2. Webber
3. Shrek I mean Dave wilson
4. Launchbery
5. Lawes

Ireland:
1. Court
2. Best
3. Ross
4. Dan Tuohy
5. Mike Mcarthy

Japan aren't know for their dominant scrums and front 5 so we will take them on their.
I am a bit wary about our back 3 options though

as far as I know and Dan Baker is a Premiership player.

Couldn't be more wrong.He is much more than that, every star starts from somewhere. Dan is in the premiership now yes but in the not to far distant future I can see him being the Welsh number 8. You must have missed last years six nations
We missed out on Ben Morgan but he is like a younger version of Ben (literally I think they duplicated a ginger version).
He is what that team will need, brute strength.

Allied with Morgan Allen and Ieuan Jones, a couple of young 8`s also pushing hard.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

The Saint wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:Why isn't Morgan Allen in there; always seems to do well for those O's. That Baker lad looks very promising, intelligent footballer as well very much in the Scott Quinnell mould

Yes Allen would have been a good, justified selection. It also makes more of a mockery of Navidi's omission.

They explained their reasons for Nalvidi's omission, to be honest he's had a tough season, the rest will do him good.

Samson Lee supposedly got overlooked due to his extensive involvement with the Scarlets for his age. Player management etc. Letting Navidi rest over the summer means he'll be fit rested and ready for the new season for the Blues (and Wales if needed) whilst Warbs rests up.

Samson Lee could do well from some rest. Its been a huge year from him, he has done well. Nothing outstanding but he has made a place his own and he is still remarkably young for a tighthead.

Samson Lee is IMHO well behind Mitchell and Andrews in the pecking order.

Norfolklass wrote:Samson Lee is IMHO well behind Mitchell and Andrews in the pecking order.

And Jarvis too when he gets back.

Lee is a fantastic 5th choice THP

Now who said we have nobody to replace Adam.

wales606 wrote:

Norfolklass wrote:Samson Lee is IMHO well behind Mitchell and Andrews in the pecking order.

And Jarvis too when he gets back.

Lee is a fantastic 5th choice THP

Now who said we have nobody to replace Adam.

He is 20 years old in his first season of senior rugby. Stole the show at the JWC last year. Of course he is fifth choice but (as Wales 606 says) what a fifth choice at such a young age.

Norfolklass wrote:Samson Lee is IMHO well behind Mitchell and Andrews in the pecking order.

In what respect?

Based on current form, overall across the 2012/13 season, potential, or talent?

I watched Lee live against us in late Oct 2012 when he had only what 2-3 professional games and again in March 2013 and in both he was very good, and the highlights of the televised Scarlets 24-6 Cardiff Blues match in April 2013 and Lee looked a different class to Andrews, apart from that I haven't seen much of them although wasn't overly impressed with Andrews when Cardiff beat us by one point in Feb

So I can't see how Lee is well behind Andrews based on those four games and taking into account Lee's inexperience and youth but I probably haven't seen them play as much as you

daidimview wrote:

Jhamer25 wrote:Hell no we still have our main strength which is a good front 5. I mean you look at England's and Irelands options with players being rested and on the lions tour. (not Scotland cause apart from 2 players they are full strength) I think we have better front 5 options than them.
I think we still have a very dominant front 5.
Just look at this:
1. Rhys Gill
2. Emyr Phillips
3. Craig Mitchell
4. Bradley Davies
5. Andrew Coombs

Compare that front 5 to England's and Ireland's potential front 5's (because both teams also have a lot of players away).
England:
1. Corbisiero
2. Webber
3. Shrek I mean Dave wilson
4. Launchbery
5. Lawes

Ireland:
1. Court
2. Best
3. Ross
4. Dan Tuohy
5. Mike Mcarthy

Japan aren't know for their dominant scrums and front 5 so we will take them on their.
I am a bit wary about our back 3 options though

as far as I know and Dan Baker is a Premiership player.

Couldn't be more wrong.He is much more than that, every star starts from somewhere. Dan is in the premiership now yes but in the not to far distant future I can see him being the Welsh number 8. You must have missed last years six nations
We missed out on Ben Morgan but he is like a younger version of Ben (literally I think they duplicated a ginger version).
He is what that team will need, brute strength.

Allied with Morgan Allen and Ieuan Jones, a couple of young 8`s also pushing hard.

Exactly

I am a big fan of Samson Lee, his back story and see enormous potential. He is a great prospect and a work in progress, however, Andrews is more experienced and has made good progress at international level. He currently deserves his place in the squad in my opinion. If you took Samson's age out of the equation are his performance s that special, for me, no. But I'm not looking through Scarlet tinted lenses.

THe comment with Samson was more about Rhodri Jones (loosehead, injured early in the season, and only used off the bench this year) being taken as a tighhead instead of him.

Norfolklass wrote:I am a big fan of Samson Lee, his back story and see enormous potential. He is a great prospect and a work in progress, however, Andrews is more experienced and has made good progress at international level. He currently deserves his place in the squad in my opinion. If you took Samson's age out of the equation are his performance s that special, for me, no. But I'm not looking through Scarlet tinted lenses.

Im not either...!

SS, I was replying to FHF. However they must see some potential in Rhodri Jones and I hope the experiment works out. Whatever happened to that other young tighthead from the Scarlets from a couple of seasons ago? Had a nasty looking knee injury, and was by reputation, a poor trainer. Is he still around?

Simon Gardener? He went to Rotherham (I believe), then Cardiff and is now with Llanelli RFC. (All in the space of a season or two). Decent lad, and very good prop. By all accounts he is a Scarlets fan from birth, but just had some issues that seemed to get in his way.

I hope Rhodri doesn't convert to tighthead, as Wales have many options there (as you said), and the Scarlets have Samson there, so Rhodri would struggle for game time.

That's him. Thanks

Norfolklass wrote:I am a big fan of Samson Lee, his back story and see enormous potential. He is a great prospect and a work in progress, however, Andrews is more experienced and has made good progress at international level. He currently deserves his place in the squad in my opinion. If you took Samson's age out of the equation are his performance s that special, for me, no. But I'm not looking through Scarlet tinted lenses.

And by that you are assuming that I (full on supporter of Musselburgh, Edinburgh, Scotland, Lions, Baa Baas......... then Ospreys a distant last) am looking through tinted glasses. But I have given you examples and you have provided no examples Norfolk Lass

I have asked why you have stated that Andrews (and Mitchell) are so far ahead of Lee, when the (four or five) games that I have seen Andrews and Lee play in 2012/13 season it appears that Lee has been the better player and most certainly was head-to-head when the Scarlets beat Cardiff 24-6 only a few months ago, and as such I don't think he is way behind Andrews or Mitchell. In fact by end of next season if he continues his progress I can him leap-frogging Andrews and possibly Mitchell.

At the moment only one of us hasn't provided evidence of their statement.............. I am awaiting you to take off your shades and provide some evidence

Cheers for now

Evening FHF. I don't see that you have offered evidence, value judgements yes, but evidence no.
In the games I have seen I was dissapointed to see the Scarlets scrum well beaten with Lee as tight head. On the other hand Andrews has acquited himself very well in the autumn internationals. The only real evidence either of us has outside our own equally valid subjective opinion is that Andrews and Mitchell have been selected for Wales and Lee hasn't.
You do have a history of favouring Scarlets players. eg Knoyle, JD2.

The only game I saw where Lee was stuffed was vs the Ospreys at PYS, and Duncan Jones really made him look poor. Although that was the start of the season, Samson had only played a few games, and our locks were not firing too well either.

Its hard to gauge props on regional performance as their locks, other front rowers and even the flankers make a differnce too. Not a big fan of Andrews at the Blues and remember lots of abuse being aimed at him and Hobbs last season, however he has been pretty decent for Wales when he has featured.

Norfolklass wrote:Evening FHF. I don't see that you have offered evidence, value judgements yes, but evidence no.
In the games I have seen I was dissapointed to see the Scarlets scrum well beaten with Lee as tight head. On the other hand Andrews has acquited himself very well in the autumn internationals. The only real evidence either of us has outside our own equally valid subjective opinion is that Andrews and Mitchell have been selected for Wales and Lee hasn't.
You do have a history of favouring Scarlets players. eg Knoyle, JD2.

Afternoon Norfolk Lass

Well contrary to your belief, I have categorically provided, quite clearly and most certainly evidence. Its not proof however.

Evidence in the most simplest terms is information that helps form a conclusion; proof is fact or factual information that verifies a conclusion. In this case highlighting four games (three of them I saw live and one I watched as a re-run "Scarlets 24-6 Cardiff game") is "bear witness, evidence, testify, prove, show" data and info to refute your statement that Andrews (and Mitchell to an extent) are well ahead of Lee. You however haven't countered my "meat on the bone" by providing any evidence of your own. By the way I am not suggesting Lee should be ahead of Mitchell or Andrews in the pecking order, however from the few matches I have seen Mitchell/Andrews v Lee there is nothing to suggest they are way ahead of him..

By the way if you want to cherry pick my forum messages perhaps you can look at my insistence on the selection of Lydiate (even when he was injured in March), and Biggar (IMHO better than Farrell in the 6Ns) and Ryan Jones (even though he was injured for the England 6Ns match), and Phillips at 9 for the Lions tests......... I also think Kelly Brown Lions non selection is an absolute disgrace. None of these are anything to do with the West Walians

I base my thoughts on Knoyle, JD2, Kelly Brown, Rennie, Barclay, Hook, Gav Henson, Gav Hastings, Barry John, Phil Bennett........ or any other player usually on the players form, potential or ability not his nationality, his club, region or province.

To answer the OP, I am never confident when we put out a second string squad, and the AIs have shown my fears to be justified on a number of occasions. I thought Japan looked good in the World Cup, giving France a scare until they pulled away at the end, and drawing with Canada. If they can show some of tha form then they shouldn't be taken too lightly, especially at home. I just hope that they players have it drummed into them that this is not a friendly series or trials matches, that this is full on test rugby and the only committed performances will be acceptable. I don't want players going there 'just for the experience'. I want players there to do a job and come home with a couple of wins.

Based on what I've seen, Scott Andrews is not far ahead of Samson Lee. Apart from two games for Wales, Andrews is very poor. Mitchell is a lot better and probably not far off the hair-bear. Jarvis did well when he stepped in so it will be interesting to see if he can come back in and continue to improve.

It's just good to see the strength of depth being concentrated on.

Mitchell didn't really impress me before his injury last season nad haven't seen a lot of him this.

Andrews filled me with dread everytime I saw him but this season proved me and a lot of critics wrong.

I still wish Lewis-Roberts would be given a decent shot at it and Lee looks a great prospect.

Eifion Roberts struck me as a bit of a Will James, Warren Fury or Olly Kohn. Talked up beyond what he is, and then constantly mentioned in 'what is your welsh squad' threads without really anything to back it up.

SS,

Kingsley Jones always spoke highly of him when at Sale, his move to Toulon (was it) didn't pay off nad he has had fair few injuries but reckon he will be one of thse 'will never really know' players.