Quadrangular Tournament: 8-23 June

First topic message reminder :

I have been "volunteered" () to start this thread, so here we go:

A. RULES

1. The hosts and Samoa will each play Italy and Scotland in a league format.
2. Italy will not play Scotland, nor Samoa the hosts, at this stage.
3. On June 22, the top two teams will face each other to determine first and second places in the tournament with the bottom two playing each other to determine third and fourth place in the tournament.
4. There is no point 4. This is simples.

B. FIXTURES

1. Round 1

Scotland v Samoa
10:30pm AEST Sat, 8th June
Mbombela Stadium, Nelspruit

South Africa v Italy
1:00am AEST Sun, 9th June
Mbombela Stadium, Nelspruit

2. Round 2

Samoa v Italy
10:30pm AEST Sat, 15th June
Kings Park Stadium, Durban

South Africa v Scotland
1:00am AEST Sun, 16th June
Kings Park Stadium, Durban

3. Third Place Playoff

22 June 2013, 14:15 SAST (UTC+02)

3rd Placed team v 4th Placed team

Loftus Versfeld, Pretoria
Referee: Pascal Gaüzère (France)

4. Final

22 June 2013, 17:15 SAST (UTC+02)

1st Placed team v 2nd Placed team

Loftus Versfeld, Pretoria
Referee: John Lacey (Ireland)

C. SQUADS

1. Scotland

Backs: Alex Dunbar* (Glasgow Warriors), Tom Heathcote (Bath Rugby), Peter Horne*, Ruaridh Jackson (both Glasgow Warriors), Greig Laidlaw (Edinburgh Rugby), Sean Lamont, Peter Murchie*, Henry Pyrgos (all Glasgow Warriors), Matt Scott (Edinburgh Rugby), Tommy Seymour* (Glasgow Warriors), Duncan Taylor* (Saracens), Greig Tonks* and Tim Visser (both Edinburgh Rugby)

Forwards: John Barclay (Glasgow Warriors), Johnnie Beattie (Montpellier), Kelly Brown (Saracens, captain), Geoff Cross, David Denton (both Edinburgh Rugby), Alasdair Dickinson (Sale Sharks), Ross Ford, Grant Gilchrist (both Edinburgh Rugby), Ryan Grant (Glasgow Warriors), Jim Hamilton (Gloucester Rugby), Alastair Kellock (Glasgow Warriors), Steven Lawrie* (Edinburgh Rugby), Moray Low, Pat MacArthur* (both Glasgow Warriors), Euan Murray (Worcester Warriors), Alasdair Strokosch (Perpignan), Tim Swinson* and Ryan Wilson (both Glasgow Warriors).

* = uncapped

2. South Africa

Forwards: Lourens Adriaanse, Willem Alberts, Arno Botha, Marcell Coetzee, Bismarck du Plessis, Jannie du Plessis, Pieter-Steph du Toit, Eben Etzebeth, Siya Kolisi, Juandre Kruger, Lappies Labuschange, Francois Louw, Tendai Mtawarara, Trevor Nyankane, Coenie Oosthuizen, Chilbioy Ralepelle, Pierre Spies, Adriaan Strauss, Flip van der Merwe.

Backs: Gio Aplon, Bjorn Basson, Juan de Jongh, Jean de Villiers, JJ Engelbrecht, Bryan Habana, Francois Hougaard, Zane Kirchener, Pat Lambie, Willie le Roux, Lwazi Mvovo, Ruan Pienaar, Jan Serfontein, Morne Steyn, Jano Vermaak.

3. Italy

Piloni
Matias AGUERO (Zebre Rugby, 17 caps)
Martin CASTROGIOVANNI (Leicester Tigers, 95 caps)
Lorenzo CITTADINI (Benetton Treviso, 21 caps)
Alberto DE MARCHI (Benetton Treviso, 9 caps)
Michele RIZZO (Benetton Treviso, 7 caps)

Tallonatori
Leonardo GHIRALDINI (Benetton Treviso, 53 caps)
Davide GIAZZON (Zebre Rugby, 10 caps)
Andrea MANICI (Zebre Rugby, esordiente)*

Seconde linee
Valerio BERNABO' (Benetton Treviso, 19 caps)
Marco BORTOLAMI (Zebre Rugby, 94 caps)
Joshua FURNO (Narbonne, 8 caps)*
Antonio PAVANELLO (Benetton Treviso, 18 caps)

Terze linee
Robert BARBIERI (Benetton Treviso, 28 caps)
Mauro BERGAMASCO (Zebre Rugby, 93 caps)
Francesco MINTO (Benetton Treviso, 7 caps)
Sergio PARISSE (Stade Francais, 95 caps) - capitano
Manoa VOSAWAI (Benetton Treviso, 11 caps)
Alessandro ZANNI (Benetton Treviso, 74 caps)

Mediani di mischia
Tobias BOTES (Benetton Treviso, 13 caps)
Alberto CHILLON (Zebre Rugby, esordiente)*
Edoardo GORI (Benetton Treviso, 24 caps)*

Mediani d'apertura
Alberto DI BERNARDO (Benetton Treviso, esordiente)
Luciano ORQUERA (Zebre Rugby, 33 caps)

Centri
Gonzalo CANALE (Stade Rochelais, 82 caps)
Gonzalo GARCIA (Zebre Rugby, 28 caps)
Luca MORISI (Benetton Treviso, 2 caps)*
Alberto SGARBI (Benetton Treviso, 24 caps)

Ali/Estremi
Tommaso IANNONE (Benetton Treviso, 1 cap)*
Andrea MASI (London Wasps, 77 caps)
Luke MCLEAN (Benetton Treviso, 46 caps)
Leonardo SARTO (Zebre Rugby, esordiente)*
Giovanbattista VENDITTI (Zebre Rugby, 14 caps)*

4. Samoa

Hookers:
Ti'i Paulo – ASM Clermont France
Ole Avei – Bordeaux Begles
Manu Leiataua – North Harbour

Props:
Cencus Johnston – Toulouse
Logovi'i Mulipola – Leicester
Sakaria Taulafo – Wasps
James Johnston – Harlequins

Locks:
Kane Thompson – Canon Eagles
Iosefa Tekori – Castres
Daniel Leo – Perpignan
Filo Paulo – Cardiff Blues

Loose Forwards:
Taiasina Tu'ifua – Newcastle
Alafoti Fa'osiliva – Bristol
Ofisa Treviranus – London Irish
Jack Lam – Hurricanes
Maurie Fa'asavalu – Harlequins
Fa'alemiga Selesele – Moata’a
** (one to be added) **

Halfback:
Kahn Fotuali'i – Ospreys
Jeremy Su'a – Crusaders
Auvasa Faleali'i – Auckland

First Fives:
Tusi Pisi – Hurricanes
Ki Anufe – Auckland

Midfields:
George Pisi – Northampton
Johnny Leota – Sale
Isaia Tuifua – Vigo Rugby Club
Brandon Vaaulu – Tokyo Gas

Wings:
Alesana Tuilagi – NTT Shining Arcs
Alapati Leiua – Hurricanes
Robert Lilomaiava – Vaiala
**(one more to be added)**

Fullbacks:
Paul Williams – Stade Francais
James So'oialo – Wellington

Also I'll comment properly on here when I get back to a PC.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

George Carlin wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:There are plenty of useful things on Twitter – it doesn’t have the nudity filters that Facebook does!

So that's why Radge is on it...

jeez I've been representing Scotland (for the 1st time) at model boat building and racing and came in 2nd out of 20 and my name is still getting slandered!



check out my twitter for the pics!

If I do Radge, do you promise to be wearing clothes?

Promise! Although my looks can get ladies pulses racing.... Especially when they are running away in terror...

Barclay is out of the tour, no killer Bs reunion.

http://sru-web01.dc2.iomarthosting.com/news/13/05/27/barclay-miss-scotland-tour

He won't be replaced in the squad.

Major bummer - he was in great form for Glasgow at the end of the season.

Hope Fozzy's feeling fit and well - I hate not playing a specialist there.

You guys needn't worry too much, we have a long list of injuries and players who just returned and is unlikely to be fully match fit.

Zane Kirchner, JP Pietersen, Johan Goosen, Beast Mtwarira, Bismarck du Plessis, Willem Alberts etc.

Ok, just recieved an update on who is definitely out.

“Apart from the players who are confirmed out of the June Tests, like Frans Malherbe, Pat Cilliers, Duane Vermeulen, Johan Goosen, Frans Steyn and JP Pietersen, I think we got a very good preliminary squad together

Players not yet fully fit.

Players who took little or no part in the field sessions at Northwood High School were Zane Kirchner (finger), Willie le Roux (hamstring), Juan de Jongh (finger), Jean de Villiers (gluteus), Demetri Catrakilis (calf), Elton Jantjies (shoulder), Francois Hougaard (knee), Siya Kolisi (shoulder), Marcell Coetzee (shoulder), Flip van der Merwe (ankle), Coenie Oosthuizen (shoulder) and Chiliboy Ralepelle (knee).

Slightly concerned that we no longer have a 7 in the squad, and that if KB gets injured we have no one that can play there (Strokosh at a push – let’s not get back to this Denton at 7 nonsense).

Paves the way for 6 Denton, 7 Brown, 8 Beattie

I’d prefer that over Strokosh, Denton is just as physical but adds a lot more round the park.

When he’s not worrying about his new ridiculous haircut....

Did Wilson not start off as a 7?

Not at Glasgow at least. In his first game he dislodged Vernon from 8. Vernon was shifted to 7

Barclay is a huge loss IMO, the lack of a proper 7 was a big factor in our poor performance at the breakdown in the 6 nations, and having him back was one of the main reasons I was feeling positive about this tour. Is Fusaro still injured? Strange decision not to bring him in as a replacement if not.

I'd like to see Fusaro called up if he is fully fit, however you can understand the management preferring Brown. Fusaro has never played for Scotland before and hasn't even played any rugby this year due to injury.

Edit: He played in the Glasgow city sevens last week, not quite the level to make a compelling case for international selection.

Still for Brown to be top turnover taker in the 6N he knows what he is doing.

Yes I can understand the decision but I would definitely prefer Brown and a rusty Fusaro ahead of Strokosch and an out of position Brown (despite him making a decent fist of 7 in the 6 nations). I guess he won't be fit enough for 80 minutes but I'd probably still bring him into the squad for the experience at least, it's not like he needs a summer's rest anyway.

Surely Rennie could be called up? did he not get a couple of matches at the end of the season. Sure he's lacking match fitness but he is still a class act.

Think he got hurt again Solid8, perhaps coming back too early?

Bugger. A proper openside would be nice for this tournament.

I'm pretty sure I read that Rennie needed to see the shoulder specialist again. Which doesn't sound good so soon after his shoulder fell off in November.
Bilts - what sort of interest is the competition attracting in SA? I dare say that, from the Saffer perspective,it's not the most attractive guest list with the two teams who normally bring up the arse-end of the 6n table

Ross Ford is out of the tour due to injury, Scott Lawson to replace him.

Calf tear suffered in training on Wednesday, 6 weeks recovery time. The silver lining being that Pat MacArthur should definitely now start.

Bit of a blow losing Ford, but in the long run I think he needed the summer off to recover physically and get his head back in order – he’s in danger having a fairly limp end to his career, when he should be in his prime just now.

Shame for Ford, but hes been struggling with injury all season. He seemed to be constantly getting attention on his neck at edinburgh after 50 minutes in games. A summer off and some conditioning will do him a world of good.

On the bright side, Mccarthur and Lawrie should now definitely be getting gametime, and they both deserve it. Lawrie may be uncapped, but hes not inexperienced.

On the flanker front, we really are short of opensides. After Rossco and Barclay, its Fusaro, Grant, Watson, Bordill? (heard a rumour hes moving to Glasgow). Fusaro's on the cusp of international, although hes really short, so youd need a massive pair of ball carriers at 6 and 8. Grants solid, but has never surpassed the standards he set himself with his performances in 2009. Watsons got talent and a relentless engine. Needs to be honed into a consistent weapon though. Bordills been a constant in the u20's for a few seasons now, but I cant really comment on his ability, as hes usually in a retreating pack.

Speaking of Hookers, according to BBC Scotland news Lawson must have undergone a positional change since the Tongan game... https://twitter.com/GLove39/status/340528388462751744/photo/1

Could have been worse, at least it's Scott in the photo. Could have been Rory knowing the Old Firm obsessed BBC Scotland sports journos.

Imperialbigdave wrote:Shame for Ford, but hes been struggling with injury all season. He seemed to be constantly getting attention on his neck at edinburgh after 50 minutes in games. A summer off and some conditioning will do him a world of good.

On the bright side, Mccarthur and Lawrie should now definitely be getting gametime, and they both deserve it. Lawrie may be uncapped, but hes not inexperienced.

On the flanker front, we really are short of opensides. After Rossco and Barclay, its Fusaro, Grant, Watson, Bordill? (heard a rumour hes moving to Glasgow). Fusaro's on the cusp of international, although hes really short, so youd need a massive pair of ball carriers at 6 and 8. Grants solid, but has never surpassed the standards he set himself with his performances in 2009. Watsons got talent and a relentless engine. Needs to be honed into a consistent weapon though. Bordills been a constant in the u20's for a few seasons now, but I cant really comment on his ability, as hes usually in a retreating pack.

They're not bad options and, for a third choice, Fusaro is a cracking option and Brown, if necessary, can cover seven easily although if he gets his deserved call-up to the Lions we will have very few openside options in South Africa.

Kelly Brows ain't going to get a call up. Didn't get the pre tour letter, according to sources.

OP updated to reflect Springboks recent squad announcement.

No Goosen, which helps us and only one full back - ZK, whom I find it hard to get excited about.

i dont have sky and was wondering if anyone knew where i could watch it free online? or if it will be uploaded somewhere where i can download it before i go back to work on monday and someone tells me the score

thanks

I wish they had just played it as a straight up league. Much simpler. Samoa deserve their shot at the Boks.

poddy89 wrote:i dont have sky and was wondering if anyone knew where i could watch it free online? or if it will be uploaded somewhere where i can download it before i go back to work on monday and someone tells me the score

thanks

i am sending you a PM mate.

Scotland team for Samoa to be named tomorrow morning. Hopefully see Tonks, Dunbar & McAerhur get their first caps.

Biltong..

If you could also send me a link mate, that would be much appreciated.

Cheers

Scotland team announced

15. Tonks
14. Lamont
13. Dunbar
12. Scott
11. Visser
10. Heathcote
9. Laidlaw

1. Grant
2. MacArthur
3. Murray
4. Gilchrist
5. Kellock
6. Strokosch
7. Brown
8. Beattie

Bench - Lawrie, Dickinson, Cross, Hamilton, Wilson, Pyrgos, Horne, Taylor

Thanks GLove.

Backline is very good, very happy with that.

Stroker is presumably playing 6 with Kelly at 7? Would prefer Swinson to Big Grant but that's just my own prejudice. Johnson has made it clear that he rates Gilchrist so let's see how we go.

Can't seem to get a link anywhere for this. Was it on the Tweety? Would quite like to know the bench.

George Carlin wrote:Thanks GLove.

Backline is very good, very happy with that.

Stroker is presumably playing 6 with Kelly at 7? Would prefer Swinson to Big Grant but that's just my own prejudice. Johnson has made it clear that he rates Gilchrist so let's see how we go.

Can't seem to get a link anywhere for this. Was it on the Tweety? Would quite like to know the bench.

Yep, straight from the tweety pie land. Updated the post so the bench is there. Great to see Horne there.

Exactly the starting XV I would have selected - apart from the second row where I would have had Swinson and Hamilton. Gilchrist-Kellock seriously lacking in nastiness I fear. Would probably have had Seymour ahead of Taylor on the bench, especially as Horne covers both centre positions. Overall I'm pretty happy with it and can't wait to see how the new guys go.

I’ve never been so happy having at a Scotland selection in a long time!

Still not happy about Strokosh as an option but considering the alternative is an out of form and lacking gametime Denton can’t really complain.

Saturday is going to be a good day – lots of rugby to watch!

Hamilton has just got off the plane having been getting pished with the Ba Bas for the last 2 weeks - it's no surprise he's not starting.

Great to see Tonks and Dunbar in there.

Yes that's probably the reason, although the other way of looking at it is he has recent match practice, while Gilchrist hasn't played in over a month. But obviously Gilchrist has been training with the squad so it probably makes sense. Swinson-Kellock might have been better. No biggy though!

No Jackson, so is it Horne or Laidlaw covering 10?

With Pyrgos on the bench I’d assume Horne. Bit of a slap in the face for Jackson that he’s fallen below someone with 1 cap and someone with no caps who isn’t a regular 10. Entirely justified IMO after his erratic form this year – MOTM to rank amateur in the space of a week quite often!

Very happy with that team, though I share others' concerns about the lock pairing. Swinson's looked a lot better than Gilchrist this season.

Very pleased for Dunbar especially, and it's great to see Horne in as FH cover. What does this say about Jackson's future I wonder? I think the first choice backline and options from the bench could be very, very effective. As long as our defence holds and we're patient enough with the ball we get. I'll be so disappointed if we continue to play the kicking game from the 6N.

Agreed, although having someone so inexperienced starting it might have been useful to have a more experienced 10 on the bench, which is why I was wondering if Laidlaw might be thought of as an option there.

I agree with the above in that whilst this lock pairing is fine for Samoa, we'll get a monumental wedgie against the Springboks without Swinson and Hamilton in the boiler house for that game.

One of the things I love most about that selection is Horne on the bench, clearly to cover 10, and Taylor whom I don't prefer as a prospect to the Messiah but in His absence I would so much rather see have a run out than any other utility back I care to mention. You probably know my views on Jackson by now - I just don't think that he deserves any more time. Let's move on. I saw with pleasure a report on the Glasgow website that Finn Russell is winning match of the match awards for his club side in Canterbury during his tenure on the MacPhail scholarship.

The Meatball, Heathcote, Russell and Tommy Allan now running out for Perpignan's young team - where does Jackson fit into the future? I'm not entirely convinced that he does.

Edit: AND Peter Horne.

It'll definitely be Horne covering the FH spot. He's looked pretty good there for Glasgow, especially with ball in hand. Probably our most attacking option at FH right now.

Looking at the team, I'm pretty sure that the coaches plan to keep either Laidlaw or Heathcote on for the whole game, as they are the two place kickers.

Captain_Sensible wrote:Very happy with that team, though I share others' concerns about the lock pairing. Swinson's looked a lot better than Gilchrist this season.

Very pleased for Dunbar especially, and it's great to see Horne in as FH cover. What does this say about Jackson's future I wonder? I think the first choice backline and options from the bench could be very, very effective. As long as our defence holds and we're patient enough with the ball we get. I'll be so disappointed if we continue to play the kicking game from the 6N.

Just saw this Captain - great minds...

George Carlin wrote:

Captain_Sensible wrote:Very happy with that team, though I share others' concerns about the lock pairing. Swinson's looked a lot better than Gilchrist this season.

Very pleased for Dunbar especially, and it's great to see Horne in as FH cover. What does this say about Jackson's future I wonder? I think the first choice backline and options from the bench could be very, very effective. As long as our defence holds and we're patient enough with the ball we get. I'll be so disappointed if we continue to play the kicking game from the 6N.

Just saw this Captain - great minds...

You're too kind.

George Carlin wrote:I agree with the above in that whilst this lock pairing is fine for Samoa, we'll get a monumental wedgie against the Springboks without Swinson and Hamilton in the boiler house for that game.

One of the things I love most about that selection is Horne on the bench, clearly to cover 10, and Taylor whom I don't prefer as a prospect to the Messiah but in His absence I would so much rather see have a run out than any other utility back I care to mention. You probably know my views on Jackson by now - I just don't think that he deserves any more time. Let's move on. I saw with pleasure a report on the Glasgow website that Finn Russell is winning match of the match awards for his club side in Canterbury during his tenure on the MacPhail scholarship.

The Meatball, Heathcote, Russell and Tommy Allan now running out for Perpignan's young team - where does Jackson fit into the future? I'm not entirely convinced that he does.

Frustratingly, I'm starting to agree. It's a real shame, as he can be a really quality player on a good day. If only he could find some consistency. Maybe he needs to see a sports psychologist or a hypnotist or something! Would be such a waste if his career fizzled out because of something psychological. I am happy with the new blood coming through through.

Speaking of which, does someone who can be bothered want to start a thread on Scotland's JWC campaign? The team for the Argentina game is up on twitter

I don't think this is the end for Jackson. He is on the tour, after all. And, for all that we see Horne as a possible FH, he's still primarily a 12 and won't get much gametime at FH for Glasgow with Weir and Jackson there. Or maybe he will, with Dunbar shifting to 12 and Bennett securing the 13 shirt. Who knows

I do think that Jackson should be worried, as he's no longer our default, anyone-but-Parks pick. Let's not be too sad for him, mind, as it's great to finally have so many emerging options at FH. I'm particularly excited about Allan and Russell, though Leonard seems to have dropped back a fair bit now.