All Blacks to mix it up to stay ahead

From the 3 day camp the AB's spent a fair part of it planning the potential demise of others through varying their style of attack. Good to see innovation once again coming to the fore. I guess Ranger suits the 'attack from anywhere' approach. I wonder if other sides do this sort of thing...I remember posting earlier that something needs to change. I think its come about with the Ozzie superxv sides learning to capitalise on our sides high risk factors, predictability etc.

http://www.allblacks.com/news/22345/All-Blacks-could-lean-towards-an-adlib-style-of-play

As Sir JK is saying with the Blues this season, Better never stops!

It's good to see an acknowledgement that there has been an evolution in play by the Aussie and Sa teams in the Super 15. This is the response.

I hope they looked at last year as well and saw where teams flooded the breakdown they prospered against us and sometimes not committing players to the rucks can be attacked.

They'll probably mix it up with selection as well. What do you think a run on team might look at 606 whanau taking into account injuries, form, absences? I suspect we might have more personnel changes than even last year.

Yes the pack certainly needs a rewrite. Hore and Mealamu arent up to their old form. Nor is Woodcock. S Whitelock and Read look the only certainty's with perhaps Messam next though Luatua's chomping his heels fast. One of Romano or Retallick will take the other lock and the new 7? Cane has front running (though I'd have Luke Braid).

TJP will get the 9 spot by default with Aaron Smith struggling in the South...but we all knew that would happen. Perenara will also suit any new focus on attack he varies his ply so much and offers far more with ball in hand.

DC and Cruden at 10. Dagg at 15 and bartlett and ben smith to back up all the back spots is a gimme. With 12 I'd be worried about Nonu if variety is the new flavour. nonu offers only predictability but is still sound and with all he changes going on Hansen wont want to break up the 12/13 alliance thats served us so well.

Wingers? Savea on one and again with attack and variation in mind Ranger has to be in there somewhere. He benefits more than anyone with a fresh new attack from anywhere philosophy. One things for sure a Nonu Ranger centre pairing could potentially be the most destructive of all time! Imagine handling those two all day. Gears doing good work this year and Piatau is solid- very Mils like.

Dagg will be lucky to keep 15. He's out of form and that guy who plays at the back for Auckland is the new Muliaiina.

Wings should be Halai/Lomu Jnr and Jane/Gear As suited to opposition.

I would play Nanai-Williams and Rene Ranger as 12/13 and Smith/Cruden at 9/10.

Bench Carter, Weepu, Nonu

Yes any of that are possible outcomes. Good to see we have options. Dagg's form drop is limited to sxv and he'll get his chance as the imcumbant and he's one of those when in black brings out his very best. Way too early to count him out yet.

Smith will lose his pos to Perenara. Thats almost a dead cert. Smiths been dropped for the Highlanders already this year and Perenaras shown he offers more on attack. Carters form has been very good so haerdly likely to be dropped. Possibly agree with Nonu and Weepu but Nonu's another who excels in black.

Janes out for the season I thought and yes Gear or Halai for the other spot.

I think Smith will keep his 9 spot with Perenara given a chance later. It's common for players to have a tough domestic season after debut at international level. Bringing a new 9 up to speed takes some time in the environment.

fair enough.
Ive always said TJP will be the no. 1 9 by seasons end and perhaps Aaron Smith will get the start. Sam Whitelocks now out of the French series with a broken finger so with Ali gone we're being stretched there (not that I want Ali back ) so the more of this that goes on (Jane, McCaw, Whitelock, Ali etc as first liners now out) the selectors will probably want to stick with as many first liners as is possible.

Necessity is the mother of all invention. Sam Whitelock out is a big blow as he's been looking in good touch in recent weeks. That Hurricanes lock has gone into the squad but I wonder if they might try Romano and Retallick together. A hooker has to be tried as well as a loose head prop. Read will have one or two new loonies under his wing. It's going to be a huge forward revamp! No wonder they're talking of attacking from nowhere. We won't have a solid platform with all those changes though those changes have to be made now.

There will be changes in the backs but they are more exciting options and in case of TJ add strength.

I have up to now always dismissed posters on this forum suggesting Dan Carter playing second five eigth as being absolutely ludicrous, but with the way he has been playing most of this year I can now see a lot of merit playing him outside Cruden.

Are owen franks and charlie faumuina still injured? If yes who's your number one TH prop?

Presently Cruden is outplaying DC even though both are playing well. He outshone DC in every area vs the crusaders the other day by some margin.

DC at 12 is a no go for me. They should both stick to playing half a match each for bthe sake of consistency and continuity with the 10 position and besides it makes our inside trio of 9, Cruden and DC look tiny even if DC can tackle. It will just escalate DC's already high possibility of injury higher.

Disagree Taylorman. Nonu is a waste of space and Carter at 12 will really vary the attack. Nonu and Ranger may be useful on attack but they wouldn't be able to organise the defence between them. I say put Carter at 12, use Smith at 13 for now with Ranger on the bench or at 14 if we're desperate.
The pieman will be 9 with Smith backing him up and TJ getting a run at the end of the year.

No way would I have Nana Williams in the ABs. I like him great little player but defensively just too weak.

Sam Whitelock has been brilliant recently and in the WC he was clearly already our best lock. Bad luck to lose him but I think Romano and Rettalick can do the job well enough.

Will never agree with DC at 12. He's wasted there and others are better at 12 than he is. Didnt work with the couple of times they tried it with the Saders and wont work at test level for any sustainable period.

I'd rather half a game at 10 out of him than a full at 12. Too many cooks spoil the broth and DC and a Cruden combo is just wrong in terms of guiding the backline- both have to do it, its in the blood and they'll never settle. This is the same logic that put fullbacks at centre- "both players have gotta be there somewhere". Nonu's a better 12 than Carter.

Agree the rest though, Whitelock was putting himself in top 5 in the world class.

Parra is out of the French squad so that makes them a little less dangerous as I reckon he'd exploit any NZ weaknesses better than his rivals.

Depending on how the tests are going I could see Carter being tried at 12 outside Cruden. But I reckon Cruden is more effective with a big ugly linebreaker running outside him and Carter is a too pretty and b not physical enough to take the ball up on the burst to get over the gainline.

I just want to see us start with Carter inside Nonu and Perenara firing bullets out. DC's the best 10 I've ever seen-so why not use him in his best position. Though jeepers intercepts and chargedowns are his weaknesses and they've been quite common this year.

whocares wrote:Are owen franks and charlie faumuina still injured? If yes who's your number one TH prop?

Anyone care to reply to my question or is it that dumb?

Faumuina is still injuried. think he's gone for the season

Thanks Dallym

Owen Franks is only a little injured I thought and should be back. If not his big brother is playing really well for the Hurricanes and could do the job no problems.

I'm more worried about LH prop. Woodcock is an unknown quantity to some extent in terms of form, being in the Highlanders. Crockett scares me in terms of penalties against him. Some new faces would be welcome.

When is the team named? (Please don't say "at birth")

Any chance of Big Ben or Afeaki making the squad?

teams named sunday c/- Reunion...

Just had a chance to read this, didn't want to comment until I did (although it was far shorter than I had anticipated)

What a load of poppy man sausage, it's very reminiscent of the 'We will be fittest team on the planet' talk from Gatland pre world cup, nothing but a pre curser of bluffage to teams analysing them through software etc...

For me the kiwi's are under pressure, beaten by England and some of their big names underperforming in the Super table, losing a few key players, and knowing the replacements have to be something extremely special to fill the boots come RWC 2015, so far I see no top class replacements for Carter and Mccaw.

I think NZ have been very succesfull in the last 2 years but know that Aus and SA have been shadows of their former selves and the odd NH performance shows the gap may be closing, France and Ireland have run them close, the U20 side been beaten and look as if more losses may be coming their way if rumours prove true, and England well, we all know what happened there.

I expect NZ to come out fighting against France, and realistically should take France at a canter (although I havn't seen the squads but from what i'm expecting and I have seen from super rugby and T14 there is little contest)

Pressures starting to tell maybe?

Blues

3-0 sweep over Ireland
6-0 sweep over the 4N
50 tries to 17 for the year.
One loss at the end of the year
SXV champions in 12
Leading the sxv in 13 presently and the only nation to have 3 in the top 7, 4 in the top 9

Name one other country in the history of rugby union to have a better year than that. If you find one you'll be reaching thats for sure. And the first 10 you find will be...NZ.

Your ability to analyse the game astounds me. you really have no idea.

The so called 'pressure' you speak of is the pressure we put on ourselves to stay ahead of all the rest- a concept you are completely foreign to. So how you can even comment on it let understand it it is beyond me.

The gap is certainly not closing between the SH and NH. The S15 is almost a different game entirely (it is also the way rugby is meant to be played) and yet again the SH sides will mince us. They have better players, better structure, and a better understanding of the game.

It pains me to say this, but we are so far behind it is scary. I love watching S15 way more than any competition we have.

Rory I reckon if the weather was better then a lot more kids would be outside practising their skill sets (having said that I'm tragically looking out of my office into a gorgeous Dublin sunset).

Pressure? From one loss in 20 games? It's only the pressure of building the jersey which the team isn't only used to, but thrives under. Think the English media may have gotten you carried away Bluesman

Think you're looking for arrogance where it doesn't really exist Bluesman.
What the coach is saying is that if we don't get better we will get beaten so they are trying to do something a bit different.
Of course the ABs are under pressure. All fans in NZ are aware of our last result and how terrible it was. We know we've got old players that need replacing. Hansen has stated that very publically.

As others have said the pressure is always on the ABs to keep finding new ways to keep winning

Bluesman, The presure on not only New Zealand players but also on all the coaching staff is at all times utterly immense, always there are NewZealanders coaching all over the World. all waiting for that briefest of opportunity of when the All Black coaching job becomes available.The top coaching job in World rugby for any New Zealander and no one knows this better than Steve Hansen.

By the way the Froggies flew into town today.

It's the problem of increasing expectations. We now expect to win and to be no 1. We're in for hard psychology when we eventually slip down the table and have an ordinary year.

I haven't really looked at the team. Presumably the team's a bit short of players from clubs in the top 14 final.

aucklandlaurie wrote:
By the way the Froggies flew into town today.

It seems to me that if the arrogant self assurance oft reflected by NZ posters is shared by their team then that may be their weakness; If the team has an attitude anything like that then they are for sure beatable but somehow i doubt they do.

NZ are far from unbeatable, ask England's junior team who took them to he cleaners last year. Yet it does not dent their confidence or self belief.
Fact is if i had to bet on one side to take them in a pressure game - 1999 and 2007 spring to mind - then it is the French. The usual 'if they turn up ' caveat applies here and as this is no big match tour then perhaps the sulky french will go down badly.
And before we start the Barnes you Frak cheat stuff and we all get banned, that is the best example of the way over confidence becomes arrogance and leads to defeat because they were beaten by the better team - ask Richie.

We do lose games beefy. We also remember them. The last time we lost to England was June 2003. The last previous loss to Twickers was Brisbane 2011. The confidence comes from the fact that NZ has incredible consistency. NZ fans including myself expect too much. But somehow generally our team delivers on those expectations. Their record is the envy of all. That's where the assurance comes from. 8 straight defeats and many of your fans were dumping all over your team and when your team made a heroic fight back some of those same posters dumping on your team were proclaiming they were suddenly world beaters. So if you want to bring up arrogant self assurance recognize the reputation some Welsh posters have on these boards.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:The gap is certainly not closing between the SH and NH. The S15 is almost a different game entirely (it is also the way rugby is meant to be played) and yet again the SH sides will mince us. They have better players, better structure, and a better understanding of the game.

It pains me to say this, but we are so far behind it is scary. I love watching S15 way more than any competition we have.

Spot on Rory. Super 15 is also being referred in a completely different way at the breakdown. I think the lions tour will be a nightmare of recrimination from both sides when the referees from north and south take their parts.

NZ lose about 20% of their games Beefy. We know we are not unbeatable. We lose a game or two every year to remind us of that fact. And when we have a bad year and lose 3 or 4 games we make some changes and get better again. The point is that we keep trying to find new ways to win. There's a difference between arrogance and self assurance - some cross it some don't. At least there's a reason for that self assurance and that is a history of consistent success. Yes our last test was a terrible loss to England but history suggests we will get over that relatively quickly and move on.

On a site note with so many leaving again in the summer, is it me or are the All Blacks looking a little light in midfield. By my count Nonu & Smith will be the only capped players available (if Ranger goes to France). Throw into that mix the they only have 3 capped wingers available. Looks like All Blacks will need to blood a lot of players in preparation. To me that could make them shaky.

Those are issues wm. but Nz blooded a lot of players last year and this year is no different. The transition is happening and it needs to happen. Hansen has already acknowledged senior players won't make 2015. Hence a tweak in the gameplan.

Could cause them some bother though when they come up against some seasoned teams. That would put pressure on Hansen.

For sure. Last year Hansen wasn't put under too much pressure. It's going to be an interesting year. I sense though many are wishing for the house of cards to come crashing down. Performances will no doubt suffer at times but an almighty collapse seems wishful thinking. I was pleased at how many players were integrated last year. There will need to be more this year as well. Hard to strive for consistency with so many changes but that is what's always asked of them.

Time for Cruden to lead as 10 for the French series. He's the form 10 and fits any new approach in attack, and will serve to keep DC on ice for the 4N and beyond. Plus he needs more exposure to leading the backline from the start. Is now more likely to be the no. 1 10 in 2015, at least on par with DC.

Ranger and Piatau deserve starts on form alone but will probably start off the bench. Plus one eye on 2015 Piatau will be there of our 15's. Still think TJP is our best 9 but Weepu the obvious starter vs the French.

Nonu and Smith is a certainty. Nonu has proved he's a different player in black every time. So has Dagg.

Weepu, Cuden, Nonu, Smith, Ranger, Savea and Dagg with DC and and interesting remaining bench with TJP and A Smith fighting for the one pos, Ben Smith, Barrett and Piatau another with perhaps Smith for now edging them for experience and coverage. I just think Piatau must figure in this French series, even if to keep a struggling Dagg on his toes.

Read went out injured in the second half with a neck injury. Any reports you heard Tman on that. His injury could conceivably leave us with no senior players in the pack.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:We do lose games beefy. We also remember them. The last time we lost to England was June 2003. The last previous loss to Twickers was Brisbane 2011. The confidence comes from the fact that NZ has incredible consistency. NZ fans including myself expect too much. But somehow generally our team delivers on those expectations. Their record is the envy of all. That's where the assurance comes from. 8 straight defeats and many of your fans were dumping all over your team and when your team made a heroic fight back some of those same posters dumping on your team were proclaiming they were suddenly world beaters. So if you want to bring up arrogant self assurance recognize the reputation some Welsh posters have on these boards.

Very true. The thing is the All Blacks can back it up with wins too. But maybe I am just anti-Welsh, the new buzz word on here.

To be honest, the mentality that the All Blacks show is exactly why they are winners. It is similar to the Ulster/Leinster final last weekend. I genuinely believe Ulster could have won and had better players, but Leinster just know how to win, and how to win big games. They are a winning team, and real champions in Europe. Ulster had it in them but I did still have my doubts about whether or not they could win. I wonder if the players felt the same to some degree.

NZ are the same in world rugby. They are used to winning, they have the mentality to do it again and again. Other teams (especially Ireland who have yet to win against them) will always have that mental block when playing against them. People can call that arrogance (it isn't) but at the end of the day, they are the team who keeps winning again and again. I have tremendous respect for the All Blacks.

GloriousEmpire wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:The gap is certainly not closing between the SH and NH. The S15 is almost a different game entirely (it is also the way rugby is meant to be played) and yet again the SH sides will mince us. They have better players, better structure, and a better understanding of the game.

It pains me to say this, but we are so far behind it is scary. I love watching S15 way more than any competition we have.

Spot on Rory. Super 15 is also being referred in a completely different way at the breakdown. I think the lions tour will be a nightmare of recrimination from both sides when the referees from north and south take their parts.

Yep, definitely. It is so much quicker and allows the game to have a shred of continuity for a change. If you watched the Ulster-Leinster final last weekend, that was a perfect example of overly strict breakdown officiating and the game was dramatically affected.

The pace of the game was just very slow. Too many games up north have been like that this year and to be honest, if not for the S15 I would be very quickly losing my love for the game.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:Read went out injured in the second half with a neck injury. Any reports you heard Tman on that. His injury could conceivably leave us with no senior players in the pack.

Who would be the best options to replace him? Who will be called up for the squad in his place?

I always sees these sorts of things as opportunities rather than problems to sprout the cliche but the French go into the first test with half their top side missing and its Eden Park so I expect a reasonable score regardless.

That said I havnt heard anything yet re Read. No one from the squad immediately springs to mind as the obvious 8 replacement, the rest all 6 and 7's specialists. Perhaps Shieldsor Vito, perhaps they'll bring in Peter Sai'ili?

At this time of the year its a bit like watching the X factor or Idol- I love watching the first great debut of a newbie to the big stage, but after the auditions I go off the show, thats why I like seeing new players come in regardless. Dates back to the JK and Jones days when they burst onto the scene. The country was buzzing over these new prospects.

In the AB sense the real work is the 4N and regardless of who we turn out, they should be too much for the French as wooden spooners in the 6N but if they pinch one we'll still only have ourselves to blame.

Francis Sai'ili seems the bolter from the Blues with Luatua for Sundays side naming. Halai and Piatau slightly on the outer for the newbies...

Good news. Saw Kieran Read had a knock to the head but it isn't considered serious by the medical officials. Serious enough though to take him off in the second half though.

Hopefully he'll be right. We need his experience in the pack.

Lock Dominic Bird seems out though. Was probably a bench option at best.