All Blacks to mix it up to stay ahead

by Taylorman Sat 25 May 2013, 1:02 am

First topic message reminder :

From the 3 day camp the AB's spent a fair part of it planning the potential demise of others through varying their style of attack. Good to see innovation once again coming to the fore. I guess Ranger suits the 'attack from anywhere' approach. I wonder if other sides do this sort of thing...I remember posting earlier that something needs to change. I think its come about with the Ozzie superxv sides learning to capitalise on our sides high risk factors, predictability etc.

http://www.allblacks.com/news/22345/All-Blacks-could-lean-towards-an-adlib-style-of-play

by kiakahaaotearoa Sat 01 Jun 2013, 10:16 am

He's out until the RC. Seems strange a bench option for the Crusaders can get noticed for the ABs. He's a big unit though so I guess that makes him easy to get noticed.

by aucklandlaurie Sat 01 Jun 2013, 10:34 am

I still see no reason why we shouldnt be looking at Clark.

by kiakahaaotearoa Sat 01 Jun 2013, 11:23 am

Same reason for Ellison Laurie. If you're playing overseas at the end of the year then what's the point of investing time in a player when you could be investing it in someone prepared to stick around.

by aucklandlaurie Sat 01 Jun 2013, 11:28 am

or why not get some rerturn on the investment before they go, last year we played Sonny Bill in the June series, and he was going off to play in japan and even after that he was going overseas to play another sport.

by kiakahaaotearoa Sat 01 Jun 2013, 11:34 am

I think he was a special case to plant a seed in his mind to come back for the 2015 RWC. I think we have options at lock but inside centre doesn't throw up the same amount of potential candidates.

by aucklandlaurie Sat 01 Jun 2013, 11:42 am

I just cant think who weve got as a performing loosehead side lock other than Clark, maybe Hoeata or Boric but they are both off overseas too arent they?

by kiakahaaotearoa Sat 01 Jun 2013, 11:44 am

Didn't know about that. Then that is a worry. No wonder Dominic Bird and Jeremy Thrush are being banded about as possibilities. Losing these fringe players is a big concern.

by aucklandlaurie Sat 01 Jun 2013, 11:47 am

Honestly Kia, Bird and Thrush (thats all very poultry) are no where near Internatuional locks.

by kiakahaaotearoa Sat 01 Jun 2013, 11:49 am

Yeah I hear you mate. But I honestly think the selectors' hands are tied. They have to reward loyalty and choose players who want to stay. You can shoot for sabbaticals down the line but the important thing is to stay in NZ. Otherwise the bottom opens up for rugby at all levels in NZ.

by Taylorman Sat 01 Jun 2013, 7:55 pm

Weepu took a bad knock so if the concusion theory applies he should miss most of the French tests. Not good for the player and chances are he would have been selected- I wouldnt have selected him, too safe an option for me. Theres more to be gained from getting TJP on the park in the series. We have A Smith, TKB and even Ellis capable of stepping up so n worries there.

Really annoyed Luke Braid is not there, for me a mistake by Hansen. In a losing and pathetic Blues side was brilliant, cosistent and always present. Best playing 7 by far in my book at the mo.

by Taylorman Sat 01 Jun 2013, 8:10 pm

Unfortunately for the Blues they came up against some last chance saloon AB hopefuls in Smith (both A and B), Gear, Nonu, Hore etc all who played well. Ben Smiths consistency will see himpicked ahead of Dagg at 15 today. Frankly it should be he and Piatau as the 2 15's but that won't happen.With a few out Hansen will pencil in every single incumbant at this point. Dagg has a week to impress in training.

by thebluesmancometh Sat 01 Jun 2013, 8:15 pm

Taylorman wrote:Weepu took a bad knock so if the concusion theory applies he should miss most of the French tests. Not good for the player and chances are he would have been selected- I wouldnt have selected him, too safe an option for me. Theres more to be gained from getting TJP on the park in the series. We have A Smith, TKB and even Ellis capable of stepping up so n worries there.

Really annoyed Luke Braid is not there, for me a mistake by Hansen. In a losing and pathetic Blues side was brilliant, cosistent and always present. Best playing 7 by far in my book at the mo.

By a mile, but after Thompsons form in the past, and how I bigged him up so much a few seasons ago I will be a bit more coy when screaming from the rooftops about kiwi 7's...

He was superb though!

by Sgt_Pooly Sat 01 Jun 2013, 8:19 pm

Rumoured squad:

Outside backs: Israel Dagg, Julian Savea, Ben Smith, Charles Piutau

Midfield: Conrad Smith, Ma'a Nonu, Rene Ranger, Francis Saili

First five-eighths: Dan Carter, Aaron Cruden, Beauden Barrett

Halfbacks: Piri Weepu, Aaron Smith, Tawera Kerr-Barlow

Loose-forwards: Kieran Read, Victor Vito, Liam Messam, Steve Luatua, Sam Cane

Locks: Brodie Retallick, Luke Romano, Jeremy Thrush, Sam Whitelock/Craig Clarke

Hookers: Andrew Hore, Keven Mealamu, Dane Coles

Props: Owen Franks, Tony Woodcock, Ben Franks, Ben Afeaki, Wyatt Crockett.

by Taylorman Sat 01 Jun 2013, 8:22 pm

Thompsons more a 6 but I liked him too, more a ranging ball carrier who according to the powers that be thought too light in the tight. Had good timing and a sniff for the break which always scores with me. Its Braids workrate and go forward that impresses me, one of those where you feel safe when he takes it up. I wasnt a fan of his brother Daniel in the same pos but Lukes a step up. For me will be McCaws biggest threat in 15.

by thebluesmancometh Sat 01 Jun 2013, 8:25 pm

Taylorman wrote:Thompsons more a 6 but I liked him too, more a ranging ball carrier who according to the powers that be thought too light in the tight. Had good timing and a sniff for the break which always scores with me. Its Braids workrate and go forward that impresses me, one of those where you feel safe when he takes it up. I wasnt a fan of his brother Daniel in the same pos but Lukes a step up. For me will be McCaws biggest threat in 15.

In 15 years? Surely even Mccaw can't last that long Laugh

I don't think Mccaw will be able to keep his level of physicality and mobility up by 15, and Baird will take his spot IMO, Baird just doesn't make a wrong decision, has that little burst about him and instills confidence to all around him (although not today)

Very impressive player!

by ChequeredJersey Sat 01 Jun 2013, 8:25 pm

Isn't that old age, McCaw's biggest threat?

Also, McCaw could easily play at 6 alongside another opensider. He's done it for the Crusaders...

by Taylorman Sat 01 Jun 2013, 8:30 pm

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Rumoured squad:

Outside backs: Israel Dagg, Julian Savea, Ben Smith, Charles Piutau

Midfield: Conrad Smith, Ma'a Nonu, Rene Ranger, Francis Saili

First five-eighths: Dan Carter, Aaron Cruden, Beauden Barrett

Halfbacks: Piri Weepu, Aaron Smith, Tawera Kerr-Barlow

Loose-forwards: Kieran Read, Victor Vito, Liam Messam, Steve Luatua, Sam Cane

Locks: Brodie Retallick, Luke Romano, Jeremy Thrush, Sam Whitelock/Craig Clarke

Pretty much bang on the Sgt Pooly.
Its missing a specialist wing but Ranger can cover that. I would have Luke Braid instead of Sam Cane and TJ Perenara ahead of Kerr Barlow who probably gets the nod with Crudens presence. But TJP has been stronger in my opinion and offers more on attack.

Love to see Craig Clrk get a run. One of the most consistent and deserving hard working locks we have, and is playing at peak at the moment. Saiili would be the bolter of his lot but I'm not so sure Hansen will want to reward too many Auckland backs for their incosistent performances.

Hookers: Andrew Hore, Keven Mealamu, Dane Coles

Props: Owen Franks, Tony Woodcock, Ben Franks, Ben Afeaki, Wyatt Crockett.

by thebluesmancometh Sat 01 Jun 2013, 8:34 pm

ChequeredJersey wrote:Isn't that old age, McCaw's biggest threat?

Also, McCaw could easily play at 6 alongside another opensider. He's done it for the Crusaders...

You mean like DC is going to play 12 to encorporate Cruden Whistle

by ChequeredJersey Sat 01 Jun 2013, 8:36 pm

Don't know why you are whistling, blues! If that combo works it's a pretty scary prospect and DC has played a bit at 12 for the ABs too, hasn't he? When he was starting out?

by thebluesmancometh Sat 01 Jun 2013, 8:38 pm

ChequeredJersey wrote:Don't know why you are whistling, blues! If that combo works it's a pretty scary prospect and DC has played a bit at 12 for the ABs too, hasn't he? When he was starting out?

I know quite a few kiwi's who are pretty touchy about that scenario, moving the best 10 of the modern era for a guy who's shown a bit of form for once.

The whistle was to cover my back just incase that feeling was reciprocated by our kiwi friends on here

by Taylorman Sat 01 Jun 2013, 8:47 pm

Its an option bandied about here. Just doesnt sit with me. DC has played every match this year and most of his career at 10. Why on earth some think he would perform at the 12 role better than any other current 12 is beyond me. His 10 form is only ok at the mo and for me taking the 'pick Cruden cos he's the form 10 but keep DC in there somewhere' thinking is completed flawed. Half a game each maintains consistency at both 10 and 12. What if Cruden falls off? Put DC back to 10 and bring in a 12 who hasnt been playing because of a traffic jam of 10's? Hansen would be mad to go down that route...

by nganboy Tue 04 Jun 2013, 10:29 am

Problem is we don't have any good and experienced 12s at the moment.

by Taylorman Tue 04 Jun 2013, 4:46 pm

true...DC being one of them that is neither good or experienced...

by GloriousEmpire Wed 05 Jun 2013, 7:16 am

What did Frank Halai do wrong? Replaced by Ben Smith must be a dagger in the heart?

What about this TJP we keep hearing about? Ignored again for out of form Smith and overweight Piri?

Are the selections completely wrong?

by dallym Wed 05 Jun 2013, 9:04 am

GloriousEmpire wrote:What did Frank Halai do wrong? Replaced by Ben Smith must be a dagger in the heart?

What about this TJP we keep hearing about? Ignored again for out of form Smith and overweight Piri?

Are the selections completely wrong?

Piri is not overweight this year, and he's the form halfback in the NZ conference.

And Ben Smith is a must have in this team. He's better than Halai.

So the selections are not wrong.

by whocares Wed 05 Jun 2013, 10:58 pm

Carter injured, Weepu rested. The teams have been named:

All Blacks team to play France at Eden Park on Saturday, kick-off 7.35pm is: Israel Dagg, Ben Smith, Conrad Smith, Ma'a Nonu, Julian Savea, Aaron Cruden, Aaron Smith, Kieran Read (c), Sam Cane, Liam Messam, Brodie Retallick, Luke Romano, Owen Franks, Dane Coles, Wyatt Crockett. Reserves: Keven Mealamu, Ben Franks, Ben Afeaki, Jeremy Thrush, Victor Vito, Tawera Kerr-Barlow, Beauden Barrett, Rene Ranger.

France: Yoann Huget, Adrien Plante, Florian Fritz, Wesley Fofana, Maxime Medard, Camille Lopez, Maxime Machenaud, Louis Picamoles, Fulgence Ouedraogo, Thierry Dusautoir (c), Yoann Maestri, Sebastien Vahaamahina, Luc Ducalcon, Dimitri Szarzewski, Thomas Domingo. Reserves: Guilhem Guirado, Vincent Debaty, Daniel Kotze, Alexandre Flanquart, Yannick Nyanga, Jean-Marc Doussain, Frederic Michalak, Maxime Mermoz.

by Taylorman Wed 05 Jun 2013, 11:23 pm

GloriousEmpire wrote:What did Frank Halai do wrong? Replaced by Ben Smith must be a dagger in the heart?

What about this TJP we keep hearing about? Ignored again for out of form Smith and overweight Piri?

Are the selections completely wrong?

Yes agree...Smiths form is ultra consistent at the moment and last weeks match vs the Blues was his way of telling Hansen he's the best man for the job. He's also experienced as an AB and deserves his start. I dn't think you'll find many kiwi's disagreeing with that one Glorious. Halai's time will come. He probably has more star power and potential but for a first test of the year hansen is wisely sticking with the tried and true and Ben Smith sure is that at the mo.

Love the Cruden Smith pairing from Manawatu days. Personally I'd rather see Cruden in there than DC as he offers much more on attack, takes the ball to the line. Very prdictable and good to see Ranger will get time.

But agree with TJP- I believe he's the better 9 and between he and Cruden I reckon would match the Genia Cooper duo on attack.

For me the surprises are Crockett and Coles. Not sure why Hore is out altogether and is the incumbant pre ban, and he played ok the other day. And Crockett over Franks? No idea where that comes from but what I know about props wouldnt fill a tea cup.

Otherwise a smart, if comfortable selection.

by aucklandlaurie Wed 05 Jun 2013, 11:28 pm

plus Halal didnt make it to training on Tuesday.

Gotta say I'm also a little surprised at Mealamu being selected ahead of Hore.

by Taylorman Thu 06 Jun 2013, 12:37 am

Bit on Ben Smith...really good to see a player who grafts and grinds for years and finally gets rewarded for sheer stubborn consistency. Never picked to start because there are better X factor players around Smith has just quitely toiled at just being a damned good player...well done I say.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/8754750/Ben-Smith-shaping-as-pivotal-to-ABs-backline

by nganboy Thu 06 Jun 2013, 1:22 am

Yeah good on Ben for hanging in there instead of rushing off to take the $$ or yen or whatever. Just imagine if Nick Evans had hung in there he could have won a world cup with us. I've no problem with Halai not making it yet.
I think Piri has been the form halfback and agree TJ is a little unlucky to not be in the squad but his time will come - he was terrible early this season.
Problem with Ben Franks is that he has decided he want's to be a specialist TH with the change in rules about reserve props so he has to sit behind his little bro.

by Taylorman Thu 06 Jun 2013, 1:33 am

nganboy wrote:Yeah good on Ben for hanging in there instead of rushing off to take the $$ or yen or whatever. Just imagine if Nick Evans had hung in there he could have won a world cup with us. I've no problem with Halai not making it yet.
I think Piri has been the form halfback and agree TJ is a little unlucky to not be in the squad but his time will come - he was terrible early this season.
Problem with Ben Franks is that he has decided he want's to be a specialist TH with the change in rules about reserve props so he has to sit behind his little bro.

Cheers Ngan, that explains it...pretty much guarantees him at least a bench spot if he can cover both...

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