606 Aviva Premiership Dream Team - Full Back

Apologies, I was too busy to do this final poll on Friday, and had other things to do yesterday. The other 14 are now agreed:

MakoV, YoungsT, Cole
Borthwick, Manoa
Kalamafoni, Easter, Salvi

Care, Burns
Varndell, Twelvetrees, Tomkins, Wade.

Which leaves us looking for a Full Back.


Saracens have seen a number of players at FB, with Chris Wyles making the most appearances, but not included in the poll.
A similar situation at Leicester, sees Matt Tait not make enough regular season appearances. If he continues his form into next season he should be a genuine contender.

Mike Brown 14 starts
Gets the chance to show what he can do in his correct position at Twickenham today. For me, Brown has been Quins second best player this season, just behind Danny Care. He is an excellent club FB, strong, reliable, decent pace, big boot. He is not an international winger and hopefully that experiment is at an end and we can see if he is an international quality full back.

Ben Foden 15 starts
Not his best season, with first injury, then form, seeing him lose his spot in the England team. Towards the end of the season he has started to look as if that spark is back. His attacking has looked really good recently, especially in the play-off matches. Defence has looked shaky.

Rob Cook 17 starts (2 rep)
Unlikely to ever really trouble the England selectors, his consistent performances are worthy of being rewarded by polls such as this. Will probably stay in the memory for his bizzare pre-kick routine and ever so tight shorts.

Luke Arscott 21 starts (1 rep)
Has again been in excellent form leaving chiefs fans puzzled by his lack of recognition in even a Saxons squad. A touch unlucky to be playing in a position where there are a number of good and younger candidates. Would not have let England down if called.

Nick Abendanon 17 starts (1 rep)
Bendy is what he is. Capable of brilliance and schoolboy howlers within seconds of each other. Probably not his best season for Bath, he will be looking forward to next season where Bath could be challenging for the play-offs.

Hugo Southwell 17 starts, 2 rep
Has at times seen Elliot Daly playing ahead of him, the club captain has brought a reassuring solidity to the Wasps backs, using his experience to help guide the younger lads.

Tom Homer 19 starts
Seems to have settled on the FB position. Such a good kicker of the ball, not sure why he has not been LI's first choice kicker all season. For someone who has played wing as well, I am surprised that I have the feeling that he lacks a little pace. Usually plays really well against Leicester and is a clever player.

Sale have had so many different players at FB.

Chris Pennell 20 starts
Anothe deserving of the title "Mr Consistency". A decent all-rounder who would get more notice if at a bigger team.

Tom Arscott 19 starts
Has played mainly full back for London Welsh and good form has earnt a move to Sale. Is he even the best FB in his family though?

Individual displays from Tait, Foden and Daley caught the eye in the second half of the season. Brown I thought looked solid as opposed to last season when he was spectacular, so I can't look further than Luke Arscott for an entire season of quality.

Arscott.

Tait not an option, a shame. Torn between Arscott, Brown and Pennell. Foden had a great end (read: 2 matches) of the season but other times I've watched him he has looked out of sorts and he was poor against us at least. Daly, I am convinced, is a centre. I went Brown, then decided that was unfair and changed to Pennell who would be so much more in any other team

went for Mike Brown. Terrific club fullback.

But he is crazy, I think. Not crazy as in "wow that's a crazy move". More like "his eyes are a little too close together" crazy.

As long as we keep him fed and away from the women and children he is very good for his club.

doctor, you are fantastic

I went Arscott over Brown as they're both even in my mind but thought id go for the non Quins player.

Hahaha, who voted for Southwell?!

Cook has been brilliant for Glaws and has covered well for Morgan, who hopefully will return to the fold next season. Tait would have won this had the season just been the last 2 months. After his run of injuries he deserves to have a good run.

I've been slightly underwhelmed by Brown this season. He's still the best FB England has but I feel he was better last year.

The winner has to be Luke Arscott who was part of a wonderfully consistent backline, but he really stood out.

I should say thank you and well done LT for putting this together

I was undecided between L Arscot and Brown but after much deliberation (2 seconds) plumped for Brown because I like pit bulls and well...you get my drift!

Rob Cook is seriously underrated. Went for Arscott, Cook is in my top 3 though.

Arscott for me. Thought he looked a handy player over the last couple of seasons but prone to the odd significant error which he now seems to have eliminated.

Not sure he has enough out and out pace for the international game but the same could be said of the current England 15 Goode (although it can be argued he is a different style of full back).

doctor_grey wrote:went for Mike Brown. Terrific club fullback.

But he is crazy, I think. Not crazy as in "wow that's a crazy move". More like "his eyes are a little too close together" crazy.

As long as we keep him fed and away from the women and children he is very good for his club.

Why do you think he was relatively disappointing in the 6N, doc? A bit raw but will learn or is the step up in class of opponent too much?

InjuredYetAgain wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:went for Mike Brown. Terrific club fullback.

But he is crazy, I think. Not crazy as in "wow that's a crazy move". More like "his eyes are a little too close together" crazy.

As long as we keep him fed and away from the women and children he is very good for his club.

Why do you think he was relatively disappointing in the 6N, doc? A bit raw but will learn or is the step up in class of opponent too much?

Because he was selected out of position.

for 4 matches he made a passable impression of a winger, always making good ground, beating tackles etc. In the 5th match he was shown up more for poor positioning than anything else.


Ever since Foden usurped Armitage, Brown has been the form premiership full back. I have had concerns that he may be a player who excels at club level, but is just short of international class, but until he actually gets a run in the Full Back shirt we will never know. He impressed saffers last summer, and hopefully will shine in white this summer too.

LondonTiger wrote:
Nick Abendanon 17 starts (1 rep)
Bendy is what he is. Capable of brilliance and schoolboy howlers within seconds of each other. Probably not his best season for Bath, he will be looking forward to next season where Bath could be challenging for the play-offs.

He's not even in the top 10 full backs this year, but haven't seen any schoolboy howlers for a long time now. He was average this season, but so were many of the team!

Luke Arscott for me, I would have taken him to Argentina and see him as a better FB than Goode in many ways. If he had been the Leicester FB for the last couple of years he might well have been capped already?

I do wonder if one of the reasons why Brown ends up breaking so many tackles is because he isnt fast enough at international level to get away from the tacklers. Its a wonderful and spectacular skill but I too think he is going to be one of those guys who excels at club level but never quite convinces at test level.

he's not quick enough to be a int wing, but if he ever gets a shout at FB, I think you'd all be surprised at his pace

I thought Brown showed good acceleration and general speed at the weekend. Not as rapid as other FBs, but more than good enough, particularly when taking in his other attributes.

L. Arscott / Brown
22 Matches 16
4 Tries 5
20 Points 25
4 Try assist 1
99 Kicks From Hand 41
99 Passes 98
194 Carries 193
1463 Metres carried 1247
18 Clean breaks 13
30 Offloads 36
39 Defenders beaten 59
39 Tackles 39
13 Missed tackles 7

Foden / Tait
17 Matches 14
1 Tries 4
5 Points 20
3 Try assist 3
81 Kicks From Hand 52
91 Passes 76
148 Carries 138
1209 Metres carried 890
9 Clean breaks 13
29 Offloads 7
27 Defenders beaten 37
32 Tackles 25
9 Missed tackles 12

Abendanon / Cook
18 Matches 19
3 Tries 2
15 Points 58
4 Try assist 2
96 Kicks From Hand 61
86 Passes 61
151 Carries 130
1409 Metres carried 1048
10 Clean breaks 8
11 Offloads 9
35 Defenders beaten 20
50 Tackles 36
9 Missed tackles 16

Southwell / Homer
19 Matches 19
1 Tries 0
5 Points 101
6 Try assist 2
104 Kicks From Hand 82
164 Passes 89
114 Carries 121
741 Metres carried 547
8 Clean breaks 0
7 Offloads 11
11 Defenders beaten 17
19 Tackles 35
9 Missed tackles 17

Pennell / T. Arscott
20 Matches 19
2 Tries 3
10 Points 15
4 Try assist 0
60 Kicks From Hand 108
86 Passes 104
167 Carries 156
1362 Metres carried 1233
13 Clean breaks 22
12 Offloads 20
32 Defenders beaten 40
48 Tackles 46
10 Missed tackles 19

Brown's stats even better than I expected. Can't wait to see him (or not, thanks to the TV scheduling) in his proper position in Argentina

Interesting to see that Bendy is about middle of the group in terms of defenders beaten, with 2nd most yards made and one of the highest tackle rates as well. Genuinely surprised by that.

He has the best tackle rate doesn't he? Just ahead of Brown and Pennell?

ChequeredJersey wrote:Brown's stats even better than I expected. Can't wait to see him (or not, thanks to the TV scheduling) in his proper position in Argentina

Is there any TV coverage?

I thought not, though obviously I hope I am misinformed

Bathite wrote:Interesting to see that Bendy is about middle of the group in terms of defenders beaten, with 2nd most yards made and one of the highest tackle rates as well. Genuinely surprised by that.

I suppose that shows both a lack of other game changers at Bath this season, as well as highlighting how much he improved defensively. Bath have had one of the meanest defences in the league over the last 2 seasons, and Bendy's improvements have definitely helped there.

ChequeredJersey wrote:Brown's stats even better than I expected. Can't wait to see him (or not, thanks to the TV scheduling) in his proper position in Argentina

Protecting the Falklands?

doctor_grey wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:Brown's stats even better than I expected. Can't wait to see him (or not, thanks to the TV scheduling) in his proper position in Argentina

Protecting the Falklands?

Homer stats are awful. loads of missed tackles and not one clean break.

Missed tackles can be misleading for Full Backs. If you are making a last ditch tackle, bring the man down but he can ground the ball for a try that counts as a missed tackle. Anywhere else on the pitch and it would not.

Let someone run round you without touching them, not on the stats, make a heroic last gasp cover tackle and you get deemed to have failed.

This is why stats shouldn't be used as a primary function to judge someone by. Look at Tom Arscott who tops the missed tackle count at 19, yet he's actually had a pretty decent year for Welsh. I'd wager a large number of those we desperate finger tip tackles where he raced to cover for others. I'd imagine homer's missed tackles were also partly due to a misfiring Irish backline and not jsut his own inability to tackle.

Freddie Burns is criticised for his missed tackle rate, but a number of those missed tackles are where his pace has got him into a position where he can actually attempt a tackle, where others wouldn't. He may miss some, but equally he may slow the attacker down just enough for a support player to tackle him. Therefore a tackle is actually made because of him, yet it is regarded as a missed tackle.

I'm not suggesting ignoring all stats, but they really must be used in context and not as the yard stick as to whether someone is good in their position.