Hogg- is tackling now optional.

Cannot believe the number putting forward Hogg before Halfpenny or even Kearney. Is full back now a non tackling position or an attack at any cost route!

Did anyone witness Hogg and his inept defence, albeit at wing against France. Loose isnt even a starting point. Way behind Halfpenny and Kearney.

The average amount of tackles a full back has to make every game is about 2 or 3. At the highest level that is. I would much rather pick a full back for his attacking abilities than the solid defensive option.

Of course you want the basic skills to be there though.

You've obviously not seen Hogg play for Glasgow this season then... He's the form 15 at the minute, playing very well for someone of his age and comfortably slotting into unfamiliar positions. He's dynamic in attack, got a massive boot and even though he's not the biggest, puts himself in the road (reminds me of a certain Leigh Halfpenny in that regard)

It's not surprising really the amount of people putting him forward. He was involved in the business end of the season, like Kearney and has recent good form, again like Kearney. I'm sure Gatland will consider all the options, but with Sexton the likely test 10, is there a need for Halfpenny? Why not add an extra creative option at fullback to complement our attack. Defence isn't optional, but it's not the be all and end all. Just as George North vs Ulster a few weeks ago!

daidimview wrote:Cannot believe the number putting forward Hogg before Halfpenny or even Kearney. Is full back now a non tackling position or an attack at any cost route!

Did anyone witness Hogg and his inept defence, albeit at wing against France. Loose isnt even a starting point. Way behind Halfpenny and Kearney.

Dai TWP

Few things here

1. Hogg was playing FB not wing, he came across to cover wing and FB positions.
2. Wesley Fofana is a world class player who has made many a player look rather foolish.
3. Did you see the tackles Hogg contributed to on Picamoles, Vahaamahina both stopped within inches of our try line?.
4. Did you see Hoggs tackle on the hefty winger Clerc?.
5. Did you see Hoggs awesome tackle on huge French replacement prop Debaty, he tried to run over Hogg but couldn't?.

Well did you DaiDim?, or were you still shouting "offside ref", while trying to order your 10th stella and lime, whilst trying to chat to the girl with the pink cowboy hat by the bar and crying "come barmaid on I haven't come out to watch the rugby you know there a'drinking to do"

Oh by the way did you see the Scarlets 24 v 6 Cardiff Blues match in April 2013, when Jon Davies walked all over Halfpenny to score an all too easy try. In the same match the Scarlets FB Liam Davies showed a certain Mr Halfpenny what attacking running is all about at the 15 channel

Revolving door or what!!

flyhalffactory wrote:

daidimview wrote:Cannot believe the number putting forward Hogg before Halfpenny or even Kearney. Is full back now a non tackling position or an attack at any cost route!

Did anyone witness Hogg and his inept defence, albeit at wing against France. Loose isnt even a starting point. Way behind Halfpenny and Kearney.

Dai TWP

Few things here

1. Hogg was playing FB not wing, he came across to cover wing and FB positions.
2. Wesley Fofana is a world class player who has made many a player look rather foolish.
3. Did you see the tackles Hogg contributed to on Picamoles, Vahaamahina both stopped within inches of our try line?.
4. Did you see Hoggs tackle on the hefty winger Clerc?.
5. Did you see Hoggs awesome tackle on huge French replacement prop Debaty, he tried to run over Hogg but couldn't?.

Well did you DaiDim?, or were you still shouting "offside ref", while trying to order your 10th stella and lime, whilst trying to chat to the girl with the pink cowboy hat by the bar and crying "come barmaid on I haven't come out to watch the rugby you know there a'drinking to do"

Oh by the way did you see the Scarlets 24 v 6 Cardiff Blues match in April 2013, when Jon Davies walked all over Halfpenny to score an all too easy try. In the same match the Scarlets FB Liam Davies showed a certain Mr Halfpenny what attacking running is all about at the 15 channel

Revolving door or what!!

Blues

Hogg missed one tackle throughout the 6Ns (and it was a poor one we all agree) but he made some pretty good tackles through the game overall.

Liam Williams try
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCHwdhjsSUo

Jon Davies 1st try right through the FB channel
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rNzdrSw1GM

Jon Davies 2nd try right through Neil Halfpenny
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saQXuPdbdHA

Just stating that its absolutely crazy to bring up one miss-tackle (a bloody awful one we all agree), and then bang on as if Halfpenny hasn't missed an easy tackle, that half hearted attempt to stop Foxy Davies was pathetic. Doesn't mean he isn't a good defender though and the same applies to Hogg.

Brilliant Fly. I just don't get these posts at all. Give the guy a chance and if he takes it he takes it and if he doesn't he doesn't.

All three fullbacks bring have different things
Halfpenny out standing goal kicker and brilliant defence.
Hogg skill full and great attacking player.
Kearney attacks the back line and theres no one better under the high ball.

One thing all three can do is take their chances when they come and also all three will be making more than 2/3 tackles which someone said they would only be averading, after all we are playing against the most dangerous backline in world rugby can take sides apart

I certainly wouldn't leave Halfpenny out of the starting XV, but he should be in his best position on the wing where he is more inclined to show his attacking ability and in place of one of the other wings who haven't shown comparable must start form.

Quite simply the 'FBs' are either better players or are in better form than most of the wings. Halfpenny playing in his best position on the wing gives us the opportunity to play two of those FBs.

flyhalffactory wrote:Blues

Hogg missed one tackle throughout the 6Ns (and it was a poor one we all agree) but he made some pretty good tackles through the game overall.

Liam Williams try
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCHwdhjsSUo

Jon Davies 1st try right through the FB channel
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rNzdrSw1GM

Jon Davies 2nd try right through Neil Halfpenny
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saQXuPdbdHA

Just stating that its absolutely crazy to bring up one miss-tackle (a bloody awful one we all agree), and then bang on as if Halfpenny hasn't missed an easy tackle, that half hearted attempt to stop Foxy Davies was pathetic. Doesn't mean he isn't a good defender though and the same applies to Hogg.

Fly, For what its worth Hogg would in no doubt be in my Lions squad but there are question marks over his defence, He missed 5 out of 12 tackles in the six nations not the one, Halfpenney is a rock at fullback, i think he has gone 2 six nations without missing a tackle which is pretty impressive, add that to his long range kicking then he has to be the favorite to be the Starting 15.

Halfpenny

Player of the six nations
Never makes a mistake
As good (if not better) than Hogg or Kearney in attack.

Silly question even considering who will be 15 for the tests.

Gatland won't even consider Halfpenny at wing as we're spoilt for choice at wing anyway plus Halfpenny is in the zone at 15.

daidimview - welcome to the boards.

I'm not sure if your intention was just to be inflammatory but you're commenting about three players that are very, very different. As you seem to be basing your aggregate views about a player's ability on one missed tackle in one game in one tournament in one season, it's quite difficult to attach much weight to it, though.

You don't seem to be awash with detailed knowledge about Hogg's game and I would wager have never actually seen him play (other than in ten second highlight reels), but lots of posters get overexcited by the Lions and deal in populist, sweeping hyperbole so that's absolutely fine.

Halfpenny is still probably favourite to start a test for a number of reasons, not least the long range goalkicking, but if you don't think any player has to earn his place with 6 dirttracker matches between now and the first test, I'm afraid that you are mistaken. I do note a lack of balance with Hogg - I don't see anyone complaining that Kearney is not a goalkicker or that Halfpenny rarely breaks the line, for example. But there's no reason why they should - that's not why each player is there.

Why don't we see how everyone gets on in a few games before we all start comparing todger sizes?

Answer to title: let's hope not

Reasoning: didn't 1/2p flop a try-saving tackle in the AIs giving Australia a last minute win and knocking himself out in the process? We'll certainly have less of that pls

Seriously: three exceptionally talented fullbacks are in the Lions party, perhaps it's time to cut the hyperbole? I suspect that 1/2p starts marginally as favourite for the test spot, with Fatman familiarity an undoubted plus, but there's really very little between all three

I wouldn't be unhappy with any of the full backs if chosen. Doubt that Hogg will get a look in for the tests as I feel that Gatland will always go with the 'safer' option. Can't wait to see what Hogg can do on Saturday though.

mpc28 wrote:

flyhalffactory wrote:Blues

Hogg missed one tackle throughout the 6Ns (and it was a poor one we all agree) but he made some pretty good tackles through the game overall.

Liam Williams try
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCHwdhjsSUo

Jon Davies 1st try right through the FB channel
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rNzdrSw1GM

Jon Davies 2nd try right through Neil Halfpenny
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saQXuPdbdHA

Just stating that its absolutely crazy to bring up one miss-tackle (a bloody awful one we all agree), and then bang on as if Halfpenny hasn't missed an easy tackle, that half hearted attempt to stop Foxy Davies was pathetic. Doesn't mean he isn't a good defender though and the same applies to Hogg.

Fly, For what its worth Hogg would in no doubt be in my Lions squad but there are question marks over his defence, He missed 5 out of 12 tackles in the six nations not the one, Halfpenney is a rock at fullback, i think he has gone 2 six nations without missing a tackle which is pretty impressive, add that to his long range kicking then he has to be the favorite to be the Starting 15.

mpc28
Good Morning,

If you are using stats based on the espn data then this has been covered to death and I am not going to disprove it yet again. Suffice to say it is terribly inaccurate and if you view 1/2ps matches he most certainly did miss a few, and Hoggs "classification of misses tackles" compared to 1/2p renders the data invalid.

Just to reveal how poor the data is this is an example........... in the 2013 Sco v Wal match, Hogg/Halfpenny challenged each three times for high ball "up & unders" the result was they each claimed one each and the other bounced off both their chests. The data collected was that Hogg lost out in the tackle twice and 1/2p didn't at all.

Tosh & garbage

I like to think that watching the games live (or the very least on the box) provides you with a better insight than the stats.

As already been said and which I concur that there is not much between all three, and we are lucky to have three good FBs. I agree that based on 6Ns performances in Feb/Mar Halfpenny is slight favourite.

Lets see how is unfolds

t1000advancedprototype wrote:Halfpenny

Never makes a mistake

Nonsense.

daidimview - I know you're new to the forum, but could you please back up your opinion? Sounds like you made it up. The only Scottish player who has been useless in defence in recent years, was Lee Jones. He was not cut out for international rugby. Hogg is a solid defender for his size and most on here would agree he deserves to be starting against the Baa's Baas. If you can show enough evidence to suggest Hogg cannot defend then I would be willing to take your comments seriously. As it is however, you just sound a bit jealous 1/2p isn't starting.

flyhalffactory wrote:

daidimview wrote:Cannot believe the number putting forward Hogg before Halfpenny or even Kearney. Is full back now a non tackling position or an attack at any cost route!

Did anyone witness Hogg and his inept defence, albeit at wing against France. Loose isnt even a starting point. Way behind Halfpenny and Kearney.

Dai TWP

Few things here

1. Hogg was playing FB not wing, he came across to cover wing and FB positions.
2. Wesley Fofana is a world class player who has made many a player look rather foolish.
3. Did you see the tackles Hogg contributed to on Picamoles, Vahaamahina both stopped within inches of our try line?.
4. Did you see Hoggs tackle on the hefty winger Clerc?.
5. Did you see Hoggs awesome tackle on huge French replacement prop Debaty, he tried to run over Hogg but couldn't?.

Well did you DaiDim?, or were you still shouting "offside ref", while trying to order your 10th stella and lime, whilst trying to chat to the girl with the pink cowboy hat by the bar and crying "come barmaid on I haven't come out to watch the rugby you know there a'drinking to do"

Oh by the way did you see the Scarlets 24 v 6 Cardiff Blues match in April 2013, when Jon Davies walked all over Halfpenny to score an all too easy try. In the same match the Scarlets FB Liam Davies showed a certain Mr Halfpenny what attacking running is all about at the 15 channel

Revolving door or what!!

You seem to think Hoggs bravery is being questioned, it is not. However there is a difference between being brave enough to stand in front of a bigger man and hope he falls over you, and defending against big fast men in the wider channels. It is here that Hoggs technique is questionable and to be honest in a tight game it worries me too. He will no doubt look great in the provincial games against weakened sides but it is upon rock solid defense that Gatlands strategy will be based. Hogg doesn't fit that profile IMO

Everyone seems to be almost discounting Kearney, who is a class player used to playing at this level and who has looked in great nick in the past couple of games. He is producing it at the right time and may well get the nod

flyhalffactory wrote:

mpc28 wrote:

flyhalffactory wrote:Blues

Hogg missed one tackle throughout the 6Ns (and it was a poor one we all agree) but he made some pretty good tackles through the game overall.

Liam Williams try
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCHwdhjsSUo

Jon Davies 1st try right through the FB channel
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rNzdrSw1GM

Jon Davies 2nd try right through Neil Halfpenny
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saQXuPdbdHA

Just stating that its absolutely crazy to bring up one miss-tackle (a bloody awful one we all agree), and then bang on as if Halfpenny hasn't missed an easy tackle, that half hearted attempt to stop Foxy Davies was pathetic. Doesn't mean he isn't a good defender though and the same applies to Hogg.

Fly, For what its worth Hogg would in no doubt be in my Lions squad but there are question marks over his defence, He missed 5 out of 12 tackles in the six nations not the one, Halfpenney is a rock at fullback, i think he has gone 2 six nations without missing a tackle which is pretty impressive, add that to his long range kicking then he has to be the favorite to be the Starting 15.

mpc28
Good Morning,

If you are using stats based on the espn data then this has been covered to death and I am not going to disprove it yet again. Suffice to say it is terribly inaccurate and if you view 1/2ps matches he most certainly did miss a few, and Hoggs "classification of misses tackles" compared to 1/2p renders the data invalid.Just to reveal how poor the data is this is an example........... in the 2013 Sco v Wal match, Hogg/Halfpenny challenged each three times for high ball "up & unders" the result was they each claimed one each and the other bounced off both their chests. The data collected was that Hogg lost out in the tackle twice and 1/2p didn't at all.

Dam the secret is out ESPN is run by Halfpenny's mum head of the Welsh Taffia

dragonbreath wrote:

flyhalffactory wrote:

daidimview wrote:Cannot believe the number putting forward Hogg before Halfpenny or even Kearney. Is full back now a non tackling position or an attack at any cost route!

Did anyone witness Hogg and his inept defence, albeit at wing against France. Loose isnt even a starting point. Way behind Halfpenny and Kearney.

Dai TWP

Few things here

1. Hogg was playing FB not wing, he came across to cover wing and FB positions.
2. Wesley Fofana is a world class player who has made many a player look rather foolish.
3. Did you see the tackles Hogg contributed to on Picamoles, Vahaamahina both stopped within inches of our try line?.
4. Did you see Hoggs tackle on the hefty winger Clerc?.
5. Did you see Hoggs awesome tackle on huge French replacement prop Debaty, he tried to run over Hogg but couldn't?.

Well did you DaiDim?, or were you still shouting "offside ref", while trying to order your 10th stella and lime, whilst trying to chat to the girl with the pink cowboy hat by the bar and crying "come barmaid on I haven't come out to watch the rugby you know there a'drinking to do"

Oh by the way did you see the Scarlets 24 v 6 Cardiff Blues match in April 2013, when Jon Davies walked all over Halfpenny to score an all too easy try. In the same match the Scarlets FB Liam Davies showed a certain Mr Halfpenny what attacking running is all about at the 15 channel

Revolving door or what!!

You seem to think Hoggs bravery is being questioned, it is not. However there is a difference between being brave enough to stand in front of a bigger man and hope he falls over you, and defending against big fast men in the wider channels. It is here that Hoggs technique is questionable and to be honest in a tight game it worries me too. He will no doubt look great in the provincial games against weakened sides but it is upon rock solid defense that Gatlands strategy will be based. Hogg doesn't fit that profile IMO

Everyone seems to be almost discounting Kearney, who is a class player used to playing at this level and who has looked in great nick in the past couple of games. He is producing it at the right time and may well get the nod

I don't think Hoggs bravery is been questioned at all..........where and when did I say that?

Questionalble by whom?.............
Nobody outside of a few Welsh posters on here (who are clutching at straws bringing up the one miss-tackle against France in attempting to justify selecting 1/2p ahead of him) are questioning his tackling or his technique, in fact if you watch the French game again you would see him covering wing and solid head on against much bigger men with superb technique. Moreover fact since the 6Ns his defence has been awesome in Glasgows run-in to the Rabbo semis.

Provincial games?....... Weakened teams?...... You are having a larf now.
When you start watching the Rabbo and HC cup games and the Scotland games then I will consider your comments with the seriousness they deserve, Mr Gatland will already know how much Hoggs defence has improved even since the 6Ns, but more importantly he will know being defensive alone will not win you games at the higher international level as could be seen last summer against Australia, hence he will seriously look at Hoggs strengths (and weaknesses) compared to the other FBs.

dragonbreath wrote:

flyhalffactory wrote:

daidimview wrote:Cannot believe the number putting forward Hogg before Halfpenny or even Kearney. Is full back now a non tackling position or an attack at any cost route!

Did anyone witness Hogg and his inept defence, albeit at wing against France. Loose isnt even a starting point. Way behind Halfpenny and Kearney.

Dai TWP

Few things here

1. Hogg was playing FB not wing, he came across to cover wing and FB positions.
2. Wesley Fofana is a world class player who has made many a player look rather foolish.
3. Did you see the tackles Hogg contributed to on Picamoles, Vahaamahina both stopped within inches of our try line?.
4. Did you see Hoggs tackle on the hefty winger Clerc?.
5. Did you see Hoggs awesome tackle on huge French replacement prop Debaty, he tried to run over Hogg but couldn't?.

Well did you DaiDim?, or were you still shouting "offside ref", while trying to order your 10th stella and lime, whilst trying to chat to the girl with the pink cowboy hat by the bar and crying "come barmaid on I haven't come out to watch the rugby you know there a'drinking to do"

Oh by the way did you see the Scarlets 24 v 6 Cardiff Blues match in April 2013, when Jon Davies walked all over Halfpenny to score an all too easy try. In the same match the Scarlets FB Liam Davies showed a certain Mr Halfpenny what attacking running is all about at the 15 channel

Revolving door or what!!

You seem to think Hoggs bravery is being questioned, it is not. However there is a difference between being brave enough to stand in front of a bigger man and hope he falls over you, and defending against big fast men in the wider channels. It is here that Hoggs technique is questionable and to be honest in a tight game it worries me too. He will no doubt look great in the provincial games against weakened sides but it is upon rock solid defense that Gatlands strategy will be based. Hogg doesn't fit that profile IMO

Everyone seems to be almost discounting Kearney, who is a class player used to playing at this level and who has looked in great nick in the past couple of games. He is producing it at the right time and may well get the nod

You'll have to pardon me for stepping outside the site, but the icon that are currently provided with doesn't quite adequately convey my feelings:

A Lions thread criticising a player who is not Welsh... First time for everything I suppose.

daidimview- is the occasional mistake now enough to make glaring generalisations about players?

Oh wait, around here since when has it not been?

Didn't Hogg just watch Launchbury wander past for a try v England?

Knowsit17 wrote:daidimview- is the occasional mistake now enough to make glaring generalisations about players?

Oh wait, around here since when has it not been?

Stevens and Lydiate to start the first test - neither missed a tackle during the six nations.

viewtothegym wrote:Didn't Hogg just watch Launchbury wander past for a try v England?

Launchbury did not not score against Scotland.
You are obviously as clueless about rugby as the WUM who started the thread.
People who know about rugby and Lions tours know that it is players like Hogg who can become legends at these times ... or they can crash and burn.
Hogg is 20 years old - give him a chance.

viewtothegym wrote:Didn't Hogg just watch Launchbury wander past for a try v England?

viewtothejim......... you still "living the nightmare"

By the way... no Launchbury didn't wander past Hogg or anybody else in a Scottish jersey, you must have been still living in your dream, as opposed to anyone else connected to you who must be living the effing nightmare

ps Hogg scored a try against England tho

flyhalffactory wrote:

viewtothegym wrote:Didn't Hogg just watch Launchbury wander past for a try v England?

viewtothejim......... you still "living the nightmare"

By the way... no Launchbury didn't wander past Hogg or anybody else in a Scottish jersey, you must have been still living in your dream, as opposed to anyone else connected to you who must be living the effing nightmare

ps Hogg scored a try against England tho

wtf

My goodness I know how people get bored by wounded stalkers now.


View (as he quite often does) pulls out a wum one-liner with no basis of fact.............. and you rather highlight my view of his consistent inappropriate comments.

This whole thread is rather symptomatic of 606 (and other sports forums).

1) A player, not your favourite may be selected for a match
2) Disparage said player, consistently, mercilessly and without any real facts.
3) Glow in the knowledge that your favourite is obviously the better player.
4) Supporters of the disparaged player jump in, defend their player - initially by pointing out their strengths and the weaknesses in the disparagers arguments. Latterly by resorting to the same tactics as the original poster
5) Well known WUMs join in.
6) Everyone loses their heads and gets very angry.



For what it is worth, Hogg & Halfpenny (and Kearney) are very fine players. Halfpenny will probably be selected for the first test as I suspect that Gatland will rather let Sexton concentrate on just running the match so will want him as a goalkicker. Hogg though has his chance to show what he can do, though cynics may suggest that picking him against the Barbarians in Hong Kong, anything he does will be considered less relevant than the things done in Perth.

I wonder how many of the posters slating Hogg for his defence have Alex Cuthbert in their fantasy Lions XV...

A great many of them, Luckless.

The disasterously sad WUMmers like the original poster and the squealing pre-teens that pile on after them fascinate me. When people disagree with your leaden, unsubstantiated generalisations, what runs through your heads? "Not a bad point?" "Perhaps I was a bit hasty?" "I can justify a different view and so maybe I should".

That would seem to be a range of reasonable response to me but the way that these threads are killed by the WUMmers suggest that this is hardly ever the case. And it's all a bit of virtua-fun, of course. Just as long as people who queue up on these boards with the express intention of anonymously slating a 20 year old child that they have never met and who has more talent in his Hawick winkle than they have in their entire bodies know how that makes you look.

Like tiny, tiny little children.

I just think it's incredible that all our fullbacks are so good that there's so little between them we'd all pretty much (for the most part) be happy with whoever is picked in the first test. None of them will let us down! If Hogg is picked, aye he might miss a tackle but he'll create/score a couple of tries and leave us in the positive! If Halfpenny is picked we might not get the best in the way of attacking play but he's got a siege gun of a boot and will keep the scoreboard ticking over in Paterson-esque performance. If Kearney is picked we have the best aerial competitor in the world under the high ball and a rock in defense (aside from being dummy passed by lanky locks)! I will be happy anyway which way.

daidimview well done. Very brave of you to mention Hogg's poor tackling in the 6 nations. Hogg is seen as a deity by quite a few fans. Probably because he's a decent attacking Scottish back. Hogg is seen as a breath of fresh air by Scottish fans.

For the record I think Hogg is a good attacking player but seriously overhyped. I think he has done enough to deserve his Lions call up but he was the worst tackling full back in the 6 nations according to the stats.


flyhalffactory I seriously don't know why you think Hogg missed only one tackle in the whole 6 nations. I know you are a big fan of Hogg but surely you have to admit that even he is prone to making errors.

Best defensive full back is Halfpenny. If you want the more attacking option then Hogg is the option.

Personally I would prefer the more solid option of Halfpenny but I can understand why Hogg has so many admirers.

Beshocked, I always thought Kearney was the better defensive player, especially under the high ball?

Tramptastic wrote:I just think it's incredible that all our fullbacks are so good that there's so little between them we'd all pretty much (for the most part) be happy with whoever is picked in the first test. None of them will let us down! If Hogg is picked, aye he might miss a tackle but he'll create/score a couple of tries and leave us in the positive! If Halfpenny is picked we might not get the best in the way of attacking play but he's got a siege gun of a boot and will keep the scoreboard ticking over in Paterson-esque performance. If Kearney is picked we have the best aerial competitor in the world under the high ball and a rock in defense (aside from being dummy passed by lanky locks)! I will be happy anyway which way.

+1.

Beshocked - I don't think that anyone is denying that Hogg still needs to work on his game. He's 4/5 years younger than Halfpenny and about 7/8 younger than Kearney and his skillset reflects this. Basic common sense.

The problem is the lack of balance with the criticism. If I started a thread about why Kearney isn't very good because he cannot kick for goal or why I don't like Halfpenny because he doesn't break the line anything like as much as Dagg, Mogg or O'Connor, then people would be correct in pointing out that no player is perfect and that isn't why these players are selected.

It's a fair comment that Hogg generates a lot of hype but that is absolutely matched in the wildly disproportionate nature of the criticism aimed at him.

The irony is also not lost on me that a large number of the posters slating Hogg's defence and ignoring what else he brings to the team are exactly the same people whining as little as a year ago that we should all stop criticising Shane William's defensive frailties and focus on his amazing try scoring record.

Tramptastic that's your opinion fair enough. I personally think Halfpenny is the best defensive full back.

George Carlin count yourself lucky it's only one thread. A certain young English 10 gets more criticism than pretty much any player combined.

I do think there is actually balance in regards to Hogg. Lots of hype on one side matched with lots of criticism.

Statistically his tackling has not been good. You can't deny it. His attacking talents are very good though.

Plus when a youngster is thrown into the spotlight we as armchair pundits like to question their inclusion.

Perhaps collectively we are too harsh on players.

beshocked wrote:daidimview well done. Very brave of you to mention Hogg's poor tackling in the 6 nations. Hogg is seen as a deity by quite a few fans. Probably because he's a decent attacking Scottish back. Hogg is seen as a breath of fresh air by Scottish fans.

For the record I think Hogg is a good attacking player but seriously overhyped. I think he has done enough to deserve his Lions call up but he was the worst tackling full back in the 6 nations according to the stats.


flyhalffactory I seriously don't know why you think Hogg missed only one tackle in the whole 6 nations. I know you are a big fan of Hogg but surely you have to admit that even he is prone to making errors.

Best defensive full back is Halfpenny. If you want the more attacking option then Hogg is the option.

Personally I would prefer the more solid option of Halfpenny but I can understand why Hogg has so many admirers.

Beshocked
I don't think any Scottish posters think Hogg is a god, we have a history of outstanding FBs who have gone on to play and captain the Lions. so we all think a lot of Hogg but we are under no illusions of where he is coming into the Lions tour. that's 3rd choice FB but that's cool as he is only 20 and very little experience............ The ESPN stats are inaccurate, I have gone into it in detail a few months ago. I will tell you again as you seem to have selective memory, a good example Scotland v Wales: 3 "up and unders" between 1/2p and Hogg........ the conclusion without a doubt was one a piece with one bouncing off both their chests, ESPN info was that Hogg missed two tackles and 1/2p none relating to those three incidents. The data is gash

He probably was the worst defensive FB in the 6Ns based on the miss tackles stats, but it doesn't say anything about his nailed on tackles, or other FBs being out of position so that they couldn't make the tackle anyway. Basically He wasn't as far off defensively as some posters make out. Most importantly he has put 1/2 stone on and increased his speed, he has worked on and improved his defence since the 6Ns immeasurably (if you want I will send you the last 5-6 Glasgow games to prove that). I would suggest you review Scotlands 6Ns matches and Wales 6Ns matches and then I will point out 1/2p and Hoggs technique, and the actual classification of miss-tackles of both.

At the moment I wouldn't be miffed if any of the FB was selected, Kearney has been looking immense in his last few games, Hogg has been a major factor in Glasgow superb run-in to the Rabbo semis, and we all know who deserved to win the Glasgow V Leinster semi, and 1/2p was 6Ns player f the tournament and rightly so.

The only thing I will say is we will save games by good defence but we wont win them. Hoggs acceleration might even shade Maitland with regard to the first 20-40 mtrs, and you cannae legislate for speed especially on the hard pitches that we will encounter.

I'll wait for your opinion after the next three games

On a side issue, I don't understand why 1/2p wasn't selected for Saturdays match, particularly as Farrell is starting at 10. Can anybody enlighten me?

Och aye Beshocked, Halfpenny is a really good defender, I think maybe Kearney edges it though? I think it's really just his utmost safety under the highball that does it for me! But fairplay it's really an opinion on fine margins!

We all have opinions and we all see things from different angles, like I think halfpenny is a different player for blues he attacks more so sometimes we only see what we want to.
Like my view the best full back this season isn't going on the tour lee byrne looking like he's close to his best but thats a topic for another day.
The thing is we have 3 solid full backs who bring a lot of different things. I know I have criticised Hogg my self but I took some advise and watched some clips theres mote to his game than the 6 nations he isn't as week defensively as people are making out.

welshboii15 wrote:We all have opinions and we all see things from different angles, like I think halfpenny is a different player for blues he attacks more so sometimes we only see what we want to.
Like my view the best full back this season isn't going on the tour lee byrne looking like he's close to his best but thats a topic for another day.
The thing is we have 3 solid full backs who bring a lot of different things. I know I have criticised Hogg my self but I took some advise and watched some clips theres mote to his game than the 6 nations he isn't as week defensively as people are making out.

Good for you. It is refreshing to see people willing to amend their opinion I wish more would do that

I would agree he is the weakest defensively of the 3 FB - but probably the best open field runner

It really is up to how the game plan is set out, but in FB we are blessed with the greatest strength and depth

The beauty of it is, most people are excited by the depth at 15, so these repetitive "discussions" are unnecessary to real supporters. I would genuinely be happy whichever 15 got the nod.