Leicester Tigers - 2013/14 Thread

[LondonTiger]

First topic message reminder :

Senior Squad

Props - Ayerza, Balmain, Bristow, Cole, Mulipola, Schuster, Stankovich
Hookers - Briggs, Chuter, Hawkins, Youngs
Locks - Cain, Deacon. De Chaves, Kitchener, Parling, Price, Slater
Back Row - Crane, Croft, Gibson, Mafi, Salvi, Waldrom

Scrum Halves - Harrison, Mele, Steele, Youngs
Outside Half - Flood, Lamb, Williams
Centres - Allen, Bowden, Smith, Tuilagi
Wings - Benjamin, Camacho, Goneva, Morris, Thompstone
Full Back - Hamilton, Tait

Coaches - Cockerill (DoR & Forwards), Blaze (Asst Forwards), Burke (Backs), Murphy (Asst Backs)


Aviva Premiership Fixtures

Sun 8 Sep 14:00 Leicester Tigers   32         Worcester Warriors 15
Sat 14 Sep 15:15 Bath Rugby  27   Leicester Tigers 20
Sat 21 Sep 15:00 Leicester Tigers  33   Newcastle Falcons 6
Sun 29 Sep 14:00 Exeter Chiefs   9   Leicester Tigers  22
Sat 5 Oct 15:15 Leicester Tigers 19   Northampton Saints  19
Sun 27 Oct 14:00 London Wasps 22   Leicester Tigers 12
Sat 2 Nov 17:30 Leicester Tigers  16   Harlequins 23
Sat 23 Nov 15:00 Leicester Tigers 20   London Irish 11
Sat 30 Nov 15:00 Gloucester Rugby 17   Leicester Tigers 22
Sat 21 Dec 15:00 Saracens  49 v   Leicester Tigers 10
Sat 28 Dec 15:00 Leicester Tigers   v   Sale Sharks
Sat 4 Jan 15:00 Leicester Tigers 27  v   Bath Rugby 27
Fri 7 Feb 19:45 Worcester Warriors  22 v   Leicester Tigers 23
Sat 15 Feb 15:00 Leicester Tigers 11  v   Gloucester Rugby  8
Sun 23 Feb 15:00 London Irish  15 v   Leicester Tigers 20
Sun 2 Mar 15:00 Newcastle Falcons  18 v   Leicester Tigers 41
Sat 22 Mar 15:00 Leicester Tigers   45 v   Exeter Chiefs 15
Sat 29 Mar 15:00 Northampton Saints 16  v   Leicester Tigers 22
Sat 12 Apr 15:00 Leicester Tigers   v   London Wasps Welford Road
Sat 19 Apr 15:00 Harlequins   v   Leicester Tigers Twickenham Stoop
Fri 2 May 20:00 Sale Sharks   v   Leicester Tigers Salford City Stadium
Sat 10 May 15:00 Leicester Tigers   v   Saracens Welford Road



Heineken Cup Fixtures

Friday, October 11 8pm Ulster Rugby 22  Leicester Tigers 16
Friday, October 18 8pm Leicester Tigers 34  Benetton Treviso 3
Sunday, December 8 3pm Leicester Tigers 41 Montpellier Herault Rugby 32
Sunday, December 15 4pm (local time) Montpellier Herault Rugby 14  Leicester Tigers 15
10/11/12 January 2014 Benetton Treviso 19 v Leicester Tigers 34
17/18/19 January 2014 Leicester Tigers 19 v Ulster Rugby 22
Saturday, 5th April ASM Clermont Auvergne v Leicester Tigers

[nathan]

I really do think we could of been in for some silverware this season if we didn't have this injury crisis that shows no signs of stopping. The next ones are;

Crane (damaged ac joint in his shoulder)
Tait (Back)
Kitchener (Knee)
Morris (Thumb)
Benjamin (Knee)

AHHHHHHHHHH

[king_carlos]

Have we got any news on how serious those various injuries are nathan?

If Kitchener and Crane's are serious we can count ourselves lucky that Mafi has just returned to bolster the pack with his versatility.

Morris, Tait and Benjamin would be huge blows to the backline though given our struggles there all season. Hopefully they are not too serious. Will certainly need Hamilton to start rolling back the years if they are though!

[formerly known as Sam]

They are large blows to the team. I'm hoping we experiment a bit in the LV as at the minute we are a touch reliant on three or so players to add all of our creation to the backline. I'd like to see us give young Pohe the Manu role and look at some of the academy options in the back three to see what they can do.

A young pack with Matera getting game time is also a must.

[nathan]

I think we might see pohe playing in the Aviva before the end of the season. Hope he gets to start against quins.

[formerly known as Sam]

Sadly I don't believe we will. I'd have hoped we'd have utilised him more before now. We desperately need a Manu replacement and he could be a decent answer plus who doesn't want to see a Pohe/Manu combo?

[HammerofThunor]

It seems that one of Cockerill's flaws (as a coach/DoR ) is trusting in the younger players. I know there's a lot of pressure on Tigers to win every game etc but it seems the younger talented players don't get a chance over average experienced players. Of course these guys leave, get more time elsewhere and may come back but still...sometimes you're just screaming for someone be given a chance outside of the LV and they don't. At least that's what it seems to me sometimes. That may be unfair.

[broadlandboy]

IMHO with Cockers players aren't given a chance they have to earn it, remember 6 lions came through Tigers as youngsters with only Twelvetrees leaving. It might take longer but if the players are good enough they will get there when they are ready in Cockers point of view, he is not adverse to playing younsters but will bring them through slowly & when he thinks they are ready.

[king_carlos]

Definitely agree we should be giving Pohe a go over the next few weeks. Purdy probably deserves a run out in the LV as well.

1.Mulipola
2.Hawkins
3.Balmain
4.Price or Cain
5.Deacon (c)
6.Wells
7.Matera
8.Noone

9.Mele
10.Williams

11.Thompstone - Is he fit at the moment?
12.Bowden
13.Pohe - Or could look at 12.Pohe 13.Smith even
14.Purdy
15.Scully

Would love to see something such as the above. Bit more experience from guys like Hawkins, Deacon and Mele in key positions along with guys we need to test out. Should also be a good opportunity to get the likes of Muilipola and Mafi who have just returned from injury some match fitness as well.

What side of the scrum does Bristow predominantly play on does anyone know?

[broadlandboy]

IIRC Bowden out due to broken eye socket/cheek, put Allen in to give guidance to youngster either side.

[formerly known as Sam]

Bristow is a loosehead.

I'd go with.

Bristow, Thacker, Balmain
Cain, de Chaves
Wells, Noone, Matera
Harrison, Williams
Pohe, Catchpole
Purdy, Humphreys, Thompstone

Bench: Stankovitch, Hawkins, Mulipola, Price, Mafi, Mele, Lamb, Smith.

[formerly known as Sam]

Maybe my team won't be possible.

"Director of rugby Richard Cockerill confirmed the latest injuries to affect the club.

“Kitchener (knee) and Tait (back) should be back for the league game at Worcester,” he said. “But I am waiting on Niall Morris, who has dislocated his thumb. He may need something doing with that.

“We are also waiting for a surgical opinion on Miles Benjamin, which we hope will not be too serious.

“He finished the game in Treviso but his knee swelled up and there is some inflammation there which we are trying to get to the bottom of.

“On the first scans there is nothing structurally wrong with him but it is not settling down.

“Harry Thacker (hooker) has injured his ankle playing for Nottingham, so he will not be playing this weekend.

“Javiah Pohe (centre) is injured. He has done his anterior cruciate ligament in his knee.

“In the second row, Joe Cain is out after a knee operation and Tom Price got concussed playing for Nottingham.

“Scrum-half Sam Harrison also picked up an ankle injury in training.”"

[nathan]

feck

[yappysnap]

Honest question, are Leicester playing a gameplan that's detrimental to their players? Too physical? Too confrontational? It just seems like every season there is a massive injury list and it's never changing. Are the medical facilities not up to scratch? Or are players being brought back too early with too much pressure to perform where they left off from?

[formerly known as Sam]

Cain has an ongoing knee issue (having had it rebuilt last season), Thacker and Price picked up injuries playing for Notts. Not sure it's a Tigers thing, more a Poopie luck thing this season. I have heard the club are quite heavy in their Tuesday contact sessions though they are also working closely with Leicester Uni on monitoring body stresses etc.

Bristow, Hawkins, Balmain
Wells, de Chaves
Noone, Waldrom, Matera
Mele, Williams
Hempetema, Smith
Thompstone, Hamilton, Purdy

Is the new FKAS starting lineup.

[Welly]

Would have stanko starting, Catchpole for Smith, and scully for Purdy.

 Bench of
 Briggs
 Bristow
 Pasquali
 Mafi
 Owen
 Steele
 Lamb
 Purdy/Dunn

 Sounds like we should get Thacker, Price and Harrison next week apparently.

[formerly known as Sam]

I'd rather we started Bristow against Quins reserve props than Stanko. What does Boris get from playing in this game? Game time for Bristow will be more beneficial long term. Smith or Catchpole I'm not fussed either way though Smith could do with getting match fit and I don't rate Catchpole that highly at the minute, he seems to have lost pace since his academy days.

Good news with Price and Thacker available for next week. I rate those two highly and I'd like to see them get some game time.

[Welly]

I guess game time with Hawkins and Baiman more minutes on the clock as a unit.

 Trouble with smith was he took a knock against Ulster.

 Maybe Dunn at 13.

[formerly known as Sam]

I'd select Catchpole over Dunn. I'd forgotten Smith took that knock in the Ulster game, maybe give him a week off and then back in vs Bath.

Looking forward to seeing Pasquali getting more game time, nicknamed The Gladiator. Made his debut for the Italian under 20s at 18 and was first choice. Looks a real prospect.

[Welly]

there him and Riccardo Brugnara who I apparently doing well with Doncaster Knights, he is also in the Italy U20 squad. both look really promising.

 Add in the likes of Bower, Bristow and Rudkin all under 21 and the future of tigers props looks very strong, if we can keep them.

[formerly known as Sam]

I don't rate Bower. He's what, 22 now? Very weak in the scrum and anonymous in the loose. A Championship level player. Agree on the others though.

[Welly]

Good point, didn't think he was 22.

 but still really good depth.

 Reckon the U21's we have currently are some of the best yet.
 2nd row Joe Cain, Price in the 2nd row
 6 Wells is another Croft/Mafi mould.
 7 Owen was in the U18 summer squad to Australia, now in U20 squad.
 8 needs work on.
 9 Scott Steele (could be a huge talent will prob take Harrisons place as 3rd 9 soon.
10 Tresidder Looks promising enough plays 9 aswell
11. Henry Purdy excellent pick up from Wasps mess.
12. Pohe Huge lad, has real raw talent. Heptema already played in the first team looks a good talent imo.
13. Catchpole I think has potential, can have lapses of bad play
14. Dunn same as Catchpole
15. Humphreys looks really good, and handy of the tee.

out of those the players i'm think may be leaving us soon are, Purdy and Catchpole already linked with Wuss also reckon Dunn and Steele could well go, esp Steele to Scotland.

[formerly known as Sam]

Wells may have similar physical attributes to Mafi and Croft but he is far more abrasive much more in line with a stereotypical 6. Goes in for a lot more tight work. I would not be surprised if another club came in for Wells and offered him more first team opportunities, Quins could really make use of a player with his physical skill set and attitude that can play lock and 6.

I've heard good things about flyhalf Bryant and wing/15 Williams. Bryant missed out on the England under 18s with Tigers academy manager expressing his disbelief in an interview. Apparently a very skillful, attacking 10 but has had injury problems this season. Williams looked a talent in the JP7s at only 17, quick and a good footballer.

I too think Purdy and Catchpole may leave this summer, maybe Steele though the Scottish sides have a fair selection of 9s to choose from. The pro academies also decided against signing him before we took him on. Think Bower and Cain will move to Notts in the summer with Dunn going elsewhere as well. Cain has had some terrible luck with injuries and to my mind is at least as good as de Chaves but Joe seems to have a serious knee issue every season.

[Welly]

Yeh steele is tricky one, with Laidlaw rumoured to be off.



 I really want Wells to stay but see want you mean 6 and lock our are real strong point, can't see Deacon being in the set up much longer, he maybe take a chuter role in a couple of season would be nice to see Wells or Price come up in his place. yeh agreed re Cain has real potential just injuries.  I expect Bristow to take Stanko place unless cockers has found someone else.

 
 Forgot about Bryant and Williams, although Bryant is a real talent with Burns and Willaims here atm I t will be hard to break through, although if one of burns or Williams becomes the clear 2nd choice they may move to pastures new, in a couple of season.

 Although fans like to say cockers hasn't brought in enough youngster I feel the previous years they haven't been as much talent as this year, Lewington and stevens were both good players, but imho Thacker and Purdy (who was a 13 before he joined us) show more potential.

[formerly known as Sam]

I think Lewington was a loss and should have been utilised considerably more last season. I rate Purdy but he is a liability under the high ball and Cockers won't trust him whilst that remains the case.

Deacon has signed a new deal so will be around a bit longer. Hopefully we'll see Price or Cain over take him. I can see Parling leaving after the RWC so that could provide further opportunity for squad advancement. I hope we release Noone in the summer and use Wells more frequently next season. Given his injuries and the money on offer in France I would not be surprised to see Croft head over to France in the next couple of years as well.

Bryant is young, if we can give him LV games whilst Williams and Burns rotate in the first team he should develop nicely. By the time he is 22 we'll probably have lost one of Burns and Williams and he could be second choice. Just needs to develop his place kicking to a high standard as Cockers is a big believer in that.

[Welly]

Leicester Tigers (v Harlequins, away, Saturday 3pm)
15 Scott Hamilton
14 Blaine Scully
13 Matt Smith
12 Terrence Hepetema
11 Adam Thompstone
10 Ryan Lamb
9 David Mele (c)
1 Tom Bristow
2 Rob Hawkins
3 Fraser Balmain
4 Steve Mafi
5 Sebastian De Chaves
6 Michael Noone
7 Pablo Matera
8 Thomas Waldrom

Replacements
16 George Chuter
17 Boris Stankovich
18 Tiziano Pasquali
19 Harry Wells
20 Will Owen
21 Scott Steele
22 Owen Williams
23 Henry Purdy

[formerly known as Sam]

Don't know about anyone else but I'm fairly happy with that performance. Some young and fringe players putting in big performances against a strong Bath side that won the game by calling on a number of first team players off the bench.

All three of the young props (the oldest being 22) all put in a good shifts and gave the more experienced Bath players a real game. Liked what I saw from Price and Wells who are both niggly and good in the lineout. Mafi is getting back to match fitness and Matera looked good. Scully won everything in the air I would have liked to see more of Rhys Williams who I am told is a real nice guy, he stripped Fearns in the tackle (prompting a hilarious hissy fit from Fearns) and a nice break through a tiny gap by a ruck. Very promising from the young winger. Hempetema looked like he'd learnt how to tackle as well.

[Metal Tiger]

It does grate a little that we put out a very development side and others teams pack their sides with 1st teamers. Ho hum. I understood the motivation for some clubs to do this as it was a back door to Europe... but with no HEC for premiership sides next year it does render the competition a little mute.

[formerly known as Sam]

It did ruin the game as a competitive spectacle, poor form from the Bath coaches. Having said that we shot ourselves in the foot a touch by bringing on Stanko and Chutes who were both well off the pace in the loose. Balmain and Bristow were far more involved as was Pasquali though he did look very raw with a boat load of potential. There's three front rowers who should play a large part in our future.

[Ozzy3213]

Why is it poor form from the Bath coaches? They are perfectly at liberty to select whoever they choose from their squad.

[formerly known as Sam]

Joking Oz, joking...

[ChequeredJersey]

Question: Do you see Slater more of a 6 or a lock? Could he play 6 for England on, say, the NZ Tour for example?

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

What really grates is that although Tigers treat it as a development tournament they still seem utterly incapable of bringing anyone through from that development squad in the last few years and instead keep turning to whatever countries immigrants (including Wales) the scout wants a holiday to that year.

[LondonTiger]

Question: Do you see Slater more of a 6 or a lock? Could he play 6 for England on, say, the NZ Tour for example?

Whilst not slow, you would want a real flyer at 7 if Slater was to play 6 in internationals. I am actually interested to see if we recruit a No8. Crane is now the only senior No8 for next season and I cannot see anyone in the A team or Academy anywhere near the level needed to play in the AP. Slater however could quite easily, and we have more depth in the second row.

[formerly known as Sam]

Depends what kind of 6 you want. He can play the Garvey role perfectly well as he's athletic enough to get the tackling and carrying done round the park, he could probably do a job at 8 for England as he's a tireless carrier. Given that England like two 7s or a 7 and Croft on the flank he probably is more suited to lock. Great hands, intelligent and likely to be Tigers club captain full time next season. For me he should be on the bench ahead of Attwood.

[broadlandboy]

Word is that Tigers have signed Barbieri(plays 8 for Treviso & played 8 for Italy last weekend) & Laurence Pearce (Rotherham?)

[formerly known as Sam]

Pearce is confirmed (though currently crocked with a knee injury) and Barbieri is one of many rumoured. Cockers said he wanted a big nasty number 8 so someone like Barbieri who likes the carrying as well as getting involved at the breakdown might well be an option.

[Welly]

What really grates is that although Tigers treat it as a development tournament they still seem utterly incapable of bringing anyone through from that development squad in the last few years and instead keep turning to whatever countries immigrants (including Wales) the scout wants a holiday to that year.

 Because that has been really bad hasn't it, honestly not including this group there hasn't really been many players I would have moved up, can you name any.

 Out of this group Thacker has played in the Aviva and is looking like he will feature more next season.

 Then there is Pohe, (the two Italian U20 internet not loading tigs site so can't copy and paste names) sounds like cockers is trusting them more and more and views them as potential 1st squad players soon.

 The likes of Catchpole, Purdy and Wells are ones that may move.

 But imo we have one of the best scouts in the League, we have picked up the likes of Mafi, Ayerza, Castro, Goneva, Morris and Slater.


Also great news

 Parling, Morris, Benjamin and Camcho are expected to be back by the end of the month.

http://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/Leicester-Tigers-quartet-closing-return-action/story-20796570-detail/story.html

[LondonTiger]

Personally I wish the likes of Purdy (and Lewington before him) had been given chances ahead of recruiting the likes of Morris, Scully and Camacho. While the first two have actually done very well and made great progress with us, it has been at the expense of EQP lads.
It is not just in the backs - we signed Schuster and de Chaves because we did not trust Balmain or Price/Wells to be 3rd/4th/5thy choices.


Harry Wells is currently on loan at Bedford to get experience with adults. He could be a monster for us. Thacker could well be second choice next season.

I am though disheartened that we will be recruiting Bai, and various Italians.

[Welly]

I can't see why getting 3 Italian internationals is a bad thing.

Thacker isn't ready for week in and out top flight rugby yet and the same goes with the other props and with rizzo being brought in means we have a 2 international sets of front row. 19/20/21/22 are still very young for front row players.

Barberi as an 8/7 is a good move not many other international 8s about ATM and we have none of the rap to take that place.

Bai has look extremely dangerous when he plays and I can't think of a better 10 that wouldn't be wanting constant 23 game time.

I think lewington was better than purdy in the eng u20 he has looked below par at times and the likes of scully has been one of the standout backs this season and has held his own against north, yards and wade.

Schuster cockers has admitted to that mistake and de cheves has looked very strong.

I happy to see more of the academy going to loan ATM though.

[Welly]

Also I think cockers wanted to give baimaln loan game time because he has played more rugby than cole did at his age. Cockers has gone record saying he wants to protect his young front rowers until they are fully ready because as I said even 23 is considered very young for a prop.

[formerly known as Sam]

Purdy and Catchpole I haven't been convinced by, losing Lewington last summer was a hideous error on our part though. Sure Scully has been good but would have been nice to see a local lad in there rather tha giving Hamilton a two year deal after some average form from him last season when Lewington should have been playing. Bai could be a great 10 back up but I'm worried we'll see less of Pohe because of his arrival.

If we fail to progress Thacker, Cain, Price and Wells to the first team then we need to look at overhauling our structure.

[Geordie]

Whats the crack with Pohe...is he still out with the ACL?

Is Price the lock...about 6'9 but a beanpole? Has he bulked out any?

When you mean overhauling the structure do you mean the willingness of the coaches to play the academy lads...or the fact the academy lads arent seen as good enough?

[Welly]

I reckon pohe could be placed at 12/13. Yes he still is out with an acl

Agreed about Thacker, Wells, Cain and price but the latter 3 are up against some very strong players.

Cain and price will prob be fighting for one spot really deacons and depending on how willing they are towait maybe parling.

Wells has croft, Mafi, Gibson (who has had a stormer).

If matera goes I could see Owens being given a shot.

In the next group they are some good players coming up.

Thacker is a dead cert to be given a chance next year.

What with Hawkins and chuter both not being offered a new contract at the moement. ( cockers is waiting too see if other players resign)

[formerly known as Sam]

Cain and Price are very different locks. Cain seems a mobile and physical unit from little I've seen of him whilst Price is a lineout operator. We need them both to stay. Slater and Kitchener will start to get international recognition and Parling is likely to be France bound post RWC. Big fan of Wells, he likes to tackle and get stuck in but seems mobile and comfortable at lock and blindside. Loans next season and LV experience next season before stepping up into the squad for the RWC year and after I hope.

Geordie, the first team structure. How we recruit, loan and develop youngsters for first team rugby. If a divide between our academy and first team becomes apparent the best talent will be tempted elsewhere before they even get to our academy. We've been good in recruiting quality players but the recruits won't have the same loyalty a Tigers fan and home grown player will. Matt Smith is a good example, not good enough to warrant automatic selection but is always there proud to wear the shirt and support his club because we developed him properly and we're his club. A career Tiger. Now look at Lewington who we didn't develop properly (neglected to give him the game time he deserved), he's gone and is doing a fine job elsewhere and we're spending money finding a replacement and have wasted the money we invested on his development.

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

A career family Tiger.

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

I get that in many cases its hard to argue that the academy players deserve to stay or get Jeff time over second string foreigners but theres the rub ... thats where the failing is. The academy just hasnt been producing the level of talent it should or was.

[LondonTiger]

Ours has failed to produce in recent years, Saints is doing well. Merely co-incidence that Dusty Hare left one and joined the other during this period?

[yappysnap]

Was Dusty Hare an ex Saints player? Or did he just get offered more money or something?

[formerly known as Sam]

Rumours were he got offered more money and more budget for his scouting network. Tiger couldn't/wouldn't match the offer so he left. Shame he was a hero at Tigers and Notts as well as being the greatest kicker of all time.

I'd say after a slightly iffy period we are churning out good players we're just not adapting our recruitment and making the most of them.

[Geordie]

I get that in many cases its hard to argue that the academy players deserve to stay or get Jeff time over second string foreigners but theres the rub ... thats where the failing is. The academy just hasnt been producing the level of talent it should or was.

Yes we are...Scott Wilson, Keiron Brookes, Mark Wilson, Zac Kibirige, George McGuigan...etc etc...the academy is going great guns...  

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