Lions vs Barbarians Player Ratings

First topic message reminder :

Here's how I saw the players. Be interesting to see all of yours.


Hogg: 7 - Some good touches but the BaBas barely kicked so didn't get much of a chance to see him counter

Cuthbert: 8 - Took his two tries very well and put himself in pole position early on

Davies: 8 - Had some great moments but a couple of wobbles here and there dropped his score, in better conditions he will thrive

Roberts: 7 - Great solid game from the big centre

Maitland: 5 - Looked a bit wobbly and failed to take his try chance, was good in defence and rucked well but overall not great

Farrell: 3 - A terrible day at the office. What was most worrying was his retaliation to punch.

Phillips: 9 - A well deserved MOTM performance. Very dangerous around the fringes. Passing wasn't great but that's not his strength

Vunipola: 5 - Was pretty quiet all round

Hibbard: 6 - Had some good carries and rucks but didn't get a chance to impress himself on the game

A Jones: 7 - Some great passes and put himself about the field

Gray: 7 - Made a couple of good runs and was the go-to man in the lineout but wasn't quite at his best

O'Connell: 8 - Scored a very good try and bossed the game well.

Lydiate: 8 - Very good game

Tipuric: 8 - Same as above

Faletau: 7 - Solid but a bit quieter than he had been in the 6Nations.

Replacements:

T. Youngs: 5 - Wonky lineout throw but didn't look out of place in the loose

Healy: 8 - Had a couple of very good runs and looked strong in the scrum.

Stevens: 5 - Made little impact.

A. W Jones: 7 - Did everything asked of him and finished off a try well.

Heaslip: 7 - Was strong when he came on but didn't have time to make a big impact.

Murray: 7 - Picked up where Phillips left off.

Sexton: 5 - Was poor with the boot and didn't get enough ball time to impress.

North: 6 - Had a good run but needs to start on Wednesday to put his hand up.

irfon17 wrote:

king_carlos wrote:Please can we leave the personal stuff out and keep it to the rugby! It's always frustrating that times like these when rugby debate should be at its best brings along increased tension on the boards. Too many posters already feel the need to have a sabatical around these times due to this so let's please not see usually insightful posters fall down the lines of personal attacks!

I think it is unfair to criticise Bluesman and not Cyril for their to and fro

I'd say both usually provide good comments on most points and are generally good value for money on the boards. It just frustrates me how quickly disagreements turn into personal slights during the bigger series and tournaments during which we should all be enjoying the rugby more than ever!

thebluesmancometh wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:You're probably right blues. I hope Youngs can put in a good performance on Wednesday though and just show something slightly different.

I see what your saying, but if he wants any shot at the test shirt he needs to execute the gameplan set out better than Phillips does, which means matching Phillips leadership, structure, defence and adding delivery, and snipes to his game.

It will be a huge undertaking but I hope he does give something for Gatland to think about

Quite simply I think we both know Youngs can't play that game better than either of the other 9s. Gatland must know this too though so would think he may ask for something different. To be honest it's all about the win for Gats and he will play how he thinks we will give us the best chance; I personally would prefer Youngs there but it may not fit the overall plan like you say.

I think we'll see both Tom and Ben Youngs earmarked as impact players off the bench when we want to raise the tempo. They'll be on the bench- its between Best and Hibbard and Murray and Phillips for the start.

My worry is Owen Farrell. Still unconvinced.

No 7&1/2 wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:You're probably right blues. I hope Youngs can put in a good performance on Wednesday though and just show something slightly different.

I see what your saying, but if he wants any shot at the test shirt he needs to execute the gameplan set out better than Phillips does, which means matching Phillips leadership, structure, defence and adding delivery, and snipes to his game.

It will be a huge undertaking but I hope he does give something for Gatland to think about

Quite simply I think we both know Youngs can't play that game better than either of the other 9s. Gatland must know this too though so would think he may ask for something different. To be honest it's all about the win for Gats and he will play how he thinks we will give us the best chance; I personally would prefer Youngs there but it may not fit the overall plan like you say.

The big worry for me is Gats gameplan, he doesn;t have a plan B because plan A is about breaking teams down and having too much for them last 15 or so. I think Phillips is probably our best option for test 1, but I'd like to see some plan B players on the bench such as Youngs and Hogg, real speed flair and excitement going into the last 10 minutes who aren't constrained by the plan.

Notch wrote:I think we'll see both Tom and Ben Youngs earmarked as impact players off the bench when we want to raise the tempo. They'll be on the bench- its between Best and Hibbard and Murray and Phillips for the start.

My worry is Owen Farrell. Still unconvinced.

Ye me too, only time he was under pressure today he fell apart (and I'm not talking about the punch), when the Barbs were in the game Farell looked dire, then got an armchair ride!

I don't see Youngs on the bench TBH, maybe if Hartley was on tour, but Best and Hibbard just have too much, and both would be better options, and I also get the feeling Gats is eyeing Murray on the bench to cover Phillips injury and not for impact.

Not that I agree

thebluesmancometh wrote:

Notch wrote:I think we'll see both Tom and Ben Youngs earmarked as impact players off the bench when we want to raise the tempo. They'll be on the bench- its between Best and Hibbard and Murray and Phillips for the start.

My worry is Owen Farrell. Still unconvinced.

Ye me too, only time he was under pressure today he fell apart (and I'm not talking about the punch), when the Barbs were in the game Farell looked dire, then got an armchair ride!

I don't see Youngs on the bench TBH, maybe if Hartley was on tour, but Best and Hibbard just have too much, and both would be better options, and I also get the feeling Gats is eyeing Murray on the bench to cover Phillips injury and not for impact.

Not that I agree

Out of interest, will the Super 15 teams the Lions are playing play their Wallabies?

Notch wrote:
My worry is Owen Farrell. Still unconvinced.

I think 10 was always going to be worry for the tour though, when you look at the options Sexton is the only standout:

Farrell and Biggar - They've both had good moments and bad moments and both have strengths and weaknesses. Both also have clutch games you can point to in which they have risen to the moment and struggled under the pressure. Both have also had question marks over their temperaments.

Wilkinson - Has his fans and detractors and like Farrell/Biggar has strength and weaknesses to his game. He's been playing very well for Toulon but has been behind a very strong pack whilst doing so.

Madigan and Burns - Both very exciting attacking players that have also displayed very good kicking games in recent seasons. Personally I'd have liked one of them too go as a bolter in a squad with 3 FHs but when only taking two pivots in the squad a bolter was never likely.

Hook - For whatever reasons has never held down the 10 shirt for Wales or the Ospreys. Prior to the tour I was hoping he'd go as a third 10 as he's got a great attacking game and the ability to make a break himself. His performance last weekend for the Baa Baas certainly won't have helped his cause if there's an injury though!

Other than Sexton there was never really an option who has a complete all round game for a test 10 if we're honest. The one thing I'm very certain of given the fact we aren't sure of the best option and need Johnny fit is that I'd have taken 3 fly halves on tour!

ChequeredJersey wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:

Notch wrote:I think we'll see both Tom and Ben Youngs earmarked as impact players off the bench when we want to raise the tempo. They'll be on the bench- its between Best and Hibbard and Murray and Phillips for the start.

My worry is Owen Farrell. Still unconvinced.

Ye me too, only time he was under pressure today he fell apart (and I'm not talking about the punch), when the Barbs were in the game Farell looked dire, then got an armchair ride!

I don't see Youngs on the bench TBH, maybe if Hartley was on tour, but Best and Hibbard just have too much, and both would be better options, and I also get the feeling Gats is eyeing Murray on the bench to cover Phillips injury and not for impact.

Not that I agree

Out of interest, will the Super 15 teams the Lions are playing play their Wallabies?

I have no idea, I was thinking that too, from a wallaby POV I think it would be good, especially for the players with question marks surrounding them such as Beale, AAC, JOC, Cooper etc...

I think we are all being abit harsh farrell was poor but he's 21 or how ever old he is, he was average did things wrong but the boy showed balls with that massive kick just be for half time and stuart hogg ran about 30m said ill kick if you like and farrell was like nah im the kicker on this pitch. Nearly every player made a lot of mistake simple drop balls etc all count. Sexton wasn't much better 1 or 2 good passes bit couldn't kick for Poopie. But only player IMOP that stod out showed his class for first time in years is jamie Roberts he was out standing but even he like the rest of the team showed we still got a lot to learn to put things right

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/britishandirishlionsrugby/10093360/Barbarians-v-Lions-how-the-players-rated.html

Farrell ratted 6/10...! Make your own mind up whether this is worth reading or not.

In my opinion he should have been given a flight home not a 6.

maes, do you think you could back off the Farrell abuse for a few days and give us all a rest?

Thanks!

Maesteg, just saw that, thought he was a bit generous all around to be honest. No way was Farrell a 6, also not sure we merited 3 9s either!

maestegmafia wrote:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/britishandirishlionsrugby/10093360/Barbarians-v-Lions-how-the-players-rated.html

Farrell ratted 6/10...! Make your own mind up whether this is worth reading or not.

In my opinion he should have been given a flight home not a 6.

Its not that bad a read actually, but just a little more generous than we are being on here I think. IT was very difficult conditions, and a very awkward situation with travel, the whole group not being together etc...

Maybe we are just negative and the author has taken these things into account and given the Barbs a lot of credit?

thebluesmancometh wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/britishandirishlionsrugby/10093360/Barbarians-v-Lions-how-the-players-rated.html

Farrell ratted 6/10...! Make your own mind up whether this is worth reading or not.

In my opinion he should have been given a flight home not a 6.

Its not that bad a read actually, but just a little more generous than we are being on here I think. IT was very difficult conditions, and a very awkward situation with travel, the whole group not being together etc...

Maybe we are just negative and the author has taken these things into account and given the Barbs a lot of credit?

To be honest you are right, bar Farrell. The kid deserves another chance but he had an absolute shocker. I am not his biggest fan but he is much better than he was today. I watched the game with some English friends and we were all cringing every time the ball went his way, he was pure awful.

thebluesmancometh wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/britishandirishlionsrugby/10093360/Barbarians-v-Lions-how-the-players-rated.html

Farrell ratted 6/10...! Make your own mind up whether this is worth reading or not.

In my opinion he should have been given a flight home not a 6.

Its not that bad a read actually, but just a little more generous than we are being on here I think. IT was very difficult conditions, and a very awkward situation with travel, the whole group not being together etc...

Maybe we are just negative and the author has taken these things into account and given the Barbs a lot of credit?

I reckon if you knock 1 off everyone's rating it looks OK. You have to remember that a scratch, young, inexperienced England beat an admittedly worse Baabaas team by 30 odd points last week, so 9s against opposition that refused to lie down but frankly were not represntative of the challenge posed by an International side is too high a score considering the mistakes all the players made.

ChequeredJersey wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/britishandirishlionsrugby/10093360/Barbarians-v-Lions-how-the-players-rated.html

Farrell ratted 6/10...! Make your own mind up whether this is worth reading or not.

In my opinion he should have been given a flight home not a 6.

Its not that bad a read actually, but just a little more generous than we are being on here I think. IT was very difficult conditions, and a very awkward situation with travel, the whole group not being together etc...

Maybe we are just negative and the author has taken these things into account and given the Barbs a lot of credit?

I reckon if you knock 1 off everyone's rating it looks OK. You have to remember that a scratch, young, inexperienced England beat an admittedly worse Baabaas team by 30 odd points last week, so 9s against opposition that refused to lie down but frankly were not represntative of the challenge posed by an International side is too high a score considering the mistakes all the players made.

I was thinking the exact same thing -1 all round would be a decent result, consideing last week and the amount of mistakes

Hibbard over threw 1 at the back, and the other that went wayward was Lydiate taking his eye off the ball, there was also 1 where it was pinched from POC.

Youngs misthrew his first to the front, there is a bit of difference, Youngs also only made 1 after that.

Both hookers weren't great, but I don't see Youngs getting better.

He threw one not straight to the middle for Gray and the threw at least three perfectly good lineouts after that. Nervous start as he came on and pretty much went straight into that lineout, after he'd got involved his nervous on a Lions debut disappeared and he was fine. Blue I think you're a touch harsh on the hookers as both did pretty well. As for Tom he's been on an upward trajectory of improvement for a couple of years now so he will continue to improve, he's only had two seasons (really one and a half because of injury) as a top flight hooker, four years in total at 2.

Vunipola had a few talking too's in the scrum though for his head and body positioning, and it's not the first time. His scrummaging tech is a bit ropy

I'm not sure if that was on purpose though, he only messed around when Walsh was on Jones's side. It was almost like he wanted Walsh over his side so Jones could bind on the arm and negate James and steal a penalty. See James's reactions after the scrum he's begging the TJ to say something to Walsh.

Phillips passing was pants, ok everywhere else but still not great.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

Hibbard over threw 1 at the back, and the other that went wayward was Lydiate taking his eye off the ball, there was also 1 where it was pinched from POC.

Youngs misthrew his first to the front, there is a bit of difference, Youngs also only made 1 after that.

Both hookers weren't great, but I don't see Youngs getting better.

He threw one not straight to the middle for Gray and the threw at least three perfectly good lineouts after that. Nervous start as he came on and pretty much went straight into that lineout, after he'd got involved his nervous on a Lions debut disappeared and he was fine. Blue I think you're a touch harsh on the hookers as both did pretty well. As for Tom he's been on an upward trajectory of improvement for a couple of years now so he will continue to improve, he's only had two seasons (really one and a half because of injury) as a top flight hooker, four years in total at 2.

Vunipola had a few talking too's in the scrum though for his head and body positioning, and it's not the first time. His scrummaging tech is a bit ropy

I'm not sure if that was on purpose though, he only messed around when Walsh was on Jones's side. It was almost like he wanted Walsh over his side so Jones could bind on the arm and negate James and steal a penalty. See James's reactions after the scrum he's begging the TJ to say something to Walsh.

I admire Youngs improvement and he looks superb at club level, but I remain unconvinced of his ability to step up so far, and everytime Ive seen him on the int stage he's looked too lightweight, and unable to bring his mobility, but I have no doubt he will improve further.

RE Vunipola you may be right, I hadn't considered that, Jones was doing a job on James and I thought James had Jones on the ropes at times, then Jones would drop or just barrell through the inside of the scrum. Maybe Ive underestimated Vunipola there, thanks for that

123456789 wrote:I think Gray and O'Connell really complemented each other and I think the criticism of Maitland is unfair he would have scored that try in any other conditions and didn't have much of a chance otherwise.

Yep I agree about Maitland, anyone who watched him in Super Rugby knows he's top draw. He's a classy winger, the fastest player in the squad and has the hands of a centre (as seen in both the Italy and England game) and given more ball he can cause real problems.

It's gonna be be really tough considering Gatland is a big fan of North, Cuthbert and Bowe - unfortunately for him all the balls went to the other wing today and he fluffed the few chances he had. Hope he gets another chance.

No score for Gatland?

I'd give him a 3. This was the game to practice set piece plays and he fluffed the lines. Unsurprisingly the Welsh dominated pack dominated the scrum but that superiority was wasted. Maybe both Hookers missing their first throws and Farrell's horror show undermined his confidence in the set-piece...

... except that it looks pretty obvious that the Lions have little craft in the backs to compete with the Aussies, so just what is Gatland's plan? Given the lack of forward play it seems Gatland doesn't seem keen to develop a pack that can pick and go or maul. So does Warren really expect Phillips to win the series for the Lions by out-sniping Genia?

Notch wrote:
My worry is Owen Farrell. Still unconvinced.

Yup comfortably the Lions worst player. His distribution is awful and he has a poor temperament.

Phillips was a well deserving motm, closely followed by O'Connell,Roberts and Tipuric. Hogg really impressed too and he and Tipuric are real dark horses for the test team on this form.

O'Connell was pretty colossal, despite playing within himself a bit and clearly is someone all the players look to for leadership. When you look at his and Tipurics form, as well as the depth in the back row, Warburton looks an increasingly poor choice as captain.

North and Murray looked very sharp when they came on. Maitland was disappointing though and although its early days was badly outshone by Cuthbert.

All things considered a very powerful start by the Lions albeit the Baa-baas were very disappointing, Joe Rococco apart. There is a predictability though about the Lions that may cost them come the test series.

Lydiate scoring more than a 5 would amaze me. Likewise Mako getting less than a 7

madmaccas wrote:

123456789 wrote:I think Gray and O'Connell really complemented each other and I think the criticism of Maitland is unfair he would have scored that try in any other conditions and didn't have much of a chance otherwise.

Yep I agree about Maitland, anyone who has watching him in Super Rugby knows he's top draw. He's a classy winger, the fastest player in the squad and has the hands of a centre (as seen in both the Italy and England game) and given more ball he can cause real problems.

It's gonna be be really tough considering Gatland is a big fan of North, Cuthbert and Bowe - unfortunately for him all the balls went to the other wing today and he fluffed the few chances he had. Hope he gets another chance.

Yeah I was a bit disappointed to see so many negative comments about him on some news websites. His grubber kick to set up Tiperics try was magic. He has the best footballing skills of the wingers, and on a dry pitch away from tropical, humid HK, he'll be in his element. That is what he adds and Gatland knows it. I have a feeling Maitland is a big part of Gatland's plans.

Maitland could maybe have done better with the finish, but then any winger could've done the same. It was just bad luck.

I have said all along to my friends and maybe on here, that I think Maitland is currently pencilled in for the test 23 (I do think starting), as Gatland made a point of praising him. I think the two wings that Gatland probably had as his starting wings in his mind are North and Maitland. I look forward to seeing Maitland on his usual starting right wing position (well starting for Scotland anyway).

I think if Phillips plays like that against a half decent back row, he'll be shown up even more than he was yesterday. Sam Jones is a 6 playing 7 yesterday and Manoa was a lock playing 6. There was no pressure on Phillips and yet he still took hist sweet time faffing around at the base of the ruck before taking two steps and firing out a pass to someone's feet, or behind them.
Let's get someone who actually wants to play 9 please!

Philipps, Cuthbert, Roberts, Jones, POC, all top drawer

Murray, Sexton, Gray, Hibbard, Lydiate, Faletau, Tips, Davies, Mako, Healy, Heaslip, AW Jones, Hogg, Maitland, all middle drawer

Farrell pants drawer

Bet Jonny is packing right now because to be honest Farrell deserves nothing more from this tour after his disgraceful behaviour and awful game. I hope he has a long word with himself and matures fast or he will cost us the tour...right now there is no way he will even bench a test - Hogg or Jonny can cover 10.

I thought Maitland was great, attack and defence were superb. I agree he is a big contender for test spot. Difficulty is all four wingers are very good.

Roberts and Davies looked very good yesterday. Nice passes, clever steps, both attacked well and created loads for players around them. Last few international games Roberts has played since he finished his degree he has been back to his defining 09 form.

Here's my take:

Props - Jones did what he does and was bloody good at it. and Vunipola showed up OK too although thought Healy put a bigger marker down when he came on.

Locks - best forward position for me. Both good in the tight - POC some really good carries and Gray's work rate and tackle count great - felt for him later in the game, looked b@ggered. AWJ looked good as well.

Backrow - Tips fantastic, Warburton beware. Lydiate, going to take the middle ground, have seen both comments from 6s to 8s. I thought he was good on the ground doing the unseen and put in some good work (not exceptional but strong) similar to Gray on return from injury will have been a good blow out to get the fitness levels up. Faletau is my real undecided. Carried frequently but not to any great effect, can't work out if this was because he was the only one putting his hand up to carry and covering for the others not in position to do the same OR whether he would have been better placed not offering himself up to let other run other lines.

Centres - outstanding, both brilliant. Roberts got the real plaudits but thought Davies was fantastic. Great lines and hands.

Back 3. Cuthbert finishing was good and a strong performance. Probably a little more optimistic than some on Maitland, and per Risca Rev above, have the same sneaky feeling is in Gatland's thoughts already for his footballing skills. Hogg looked very hungry, (maybe too hungry in some instances - saw him as first to hit a couple of rucks that he maybe shouldn't have been and hope doesn't detract from where he should be positioning himself), but some of his support running lines looked good and with a non sweaty ball might have led to some points.

Areas of concern - hooker, scrum half and stand off. First a caveat, given the conditions I think these were probably the most likely positions to suffer from the sweaty ball e.g. at line out time. But neither Hibbard or Youngs did over much to impress, likewise Farrell and Sexton, and of greater concern is Farrell's potential to get rattled - should just stick to what he's good at and cut out the off the ball stuff - the ozzies will be licking their lips at that.

As for scrum half, might sound strange given Philips MOTM, but I thought he took a lot of wrong options - worked out because it was against a scratch side with poor defensive patterns. Against a well ordered settled team not sure a quicker service wouldn't be better. Harsh maybe, and thought he deserved his MOTM, but still undecided whether it was a case of genius OR 'me before team' to prove his test credentials because he could and what the implications against a better defence and Genia might be. Thought Murray was able to prove the same point against the defence when he came on.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

Hibbard over threw 1 at the back, and the other that went wayward was Lydiate taking his eye off the ball, there was also 1 where it was pinched from POC.

Youngs misthrew his first to the front, there is a bit of difference, Youngs also only made 1 after that.

Both hookers weren't great, but I don't see Youngs getting better.

He threw one not straight to the middle for Gray and the threw at least three perfectly good lineouts after that. Nervous start as he came on and pretty much went straight into that lineout, after he'd got involved his nervous on a Lions debut disappeared and he was fine. Blue I think you're a touch harsh on the hookers as both did pretty well. As for Tom he's been on an upward trajectory of improvement for a couple of years now so he will continue to improve, he's only had two seasons (really one and a half because of injury) as a top flight hooker, four years in total at 2.

Vunipola had a few talking too's in the scrum though for his head and body positioning, and it's not the first time. His scrummaging tech is a bit ropy

I'm not sure if that was on purpose though, he only messed around when Walsh was on Jones's side. It was almost like he wanted Walsh over his side so Jones could bind on the arm and negate James and steal a penalty. See James's reactions after the scrum he's begging the TJ to say something to Walsh.

Adam Jones? Bind on the arm? Surely not?

I don't think Farrell was as bad a people are making out, his place kicking was pretty much spot (Sextons was way off) and he was a petulant when clapping Brits off the pitch but I don't think he was terrible.

No 7&1/2 wrote:I have to admit I'm a bit bemused by the motm given to Phillips by Sky as even though he scored twice I thought he was mediocre at best! So slow, sloppy passing (although conditions looked horrible!). Having side that if he was playing 6 he would have had a good day!

Seriously, if you have nothing intelligent to say say nothing. Comments like these just make you look like a moron.

bedfordwelsh wrote:I don't think Farrell was as bad a people are making out, his place kicking was pretty much spot (Sextons was way off) and he was a petulant when clapping Brits off the pitch but I don't think he was terrible.

His kicking was fine, but the rest of his game was poor. Big, big improvement when Sexton came on. Nearly all the other players can be satisfied with their work. Second row is going to be very competitive, backrow, FB and wings too. Real embarrassment of riches there. Roberts and JD2 were close to their best. Let's see what BoD and Manu have got.

Mike P was his usual self - commitment and power, but also some flaws. Thought he should have scored on the break that became a try for O'Connell. But he did make that break - and the two others he scored. He's quick off the first 10 yards, then relies on power to get over.

Phillips was awesome but Roberts should have had MOTM

What's hard to judge is the quality of the Ba-Bas. Castro is not the man he was, and Tindall is way, way past his sell-by date. Such was the dominance of the Lions pack that the Ba-bas backs had almost no ball to play with.

How much booze did they consume in Wanchai the night before?

dragonbreath wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:I have to admit I'm a bit bemused by the motm given to Phillips by Sky as even though he scored twice I thought he was mediocre at best! So slow, sloppy passing (although conditions looked horrible!). Having side that if he was playing 6 he would have had a good day!

Seriously, if you have nothing intelligent to say say nothing. Comments like these just make you look like a moron.

i actually agree to an extent, i think with a better defending team they will negate phillips attacking threat of using his bulk. I don't think he has the game for getting the ball out of the ruck quickly and allowing the 10 to move the point of attack. This latter bit is something i think B. Youngs and Murrey would be better at and may suite when playing against the better teams.

I also worry that phillips will sometimes try to take too much on himself and get isolated.

samuraidragon wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:I don't think Farrell was as bad a people are making out, his place kicking was pretty much spot (Sextons was way off) and he was a petulant when clapping Brits off the pitch but I don't think he was terrible.

His kicking was fine, but the rest of his game was poor. Big, big improvement when Sexton came on. Nearly all the other players can be satisfied with their work. Second row is going to be very competitive, backrow, FB and wings too. Real embarrassment of riches there. Roberts and JD2 were close to their best. Let's see what BoD and Manu have got.

Mike P was his usual self - commitment and power, but also some flaws. Thought he should have scored on the break that became a try for O'Connell. But he did make that break - and the two others he scored. He's quick off the first 10 yards, then relies on power to get over.

not in the kicking department, he had a awful time. We need someone to keep the scoreboard ticking over in the tests if we have any chance to win it. Having said that, they move back to using gilbert balls so Sexton's kicking may be spot on for the rest of the tournament.

nathan wrote:

samuraidragon wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:I don't think Farrell was as bad a people are making out, his place kicking was pretty much spot (Sextons was way off) and he was a petulant when clapping Brits off the pitch but I don't think he was terrible.

His kicking was fine, but the rest of his game was poor. Big, big improvement when Sexton came on. Nearly all the other players can be satisfied with their work. Second row is going to be very competitive, backrow, FB and wings too. Real embarrassment of riches there. Roberts and JD2 were close to their best. Let's see what BoD and Manu have got.

Mike P was his usual self - commitment and power, but also some flaws. Thought he should have scored on the break that became a try for O'Connell. But he did make that break - and the two others he scored. He's quick off the first 10 yards, then relies on power to get over.

not in the kicking department, he had a awful time. We need someone to keep the scoreboard ticking over in the tests if we have any chance to win it. Having said that, they move back to using gilbert balls so Sexton's kicking may be spot on for the rest of the tournament.

Halfpenny will start. Think the kicking will be just fine

ChequeredJersey wrote:

nathan wrote:

samuraidragon wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:I don't think Farrell was as bad a people are making out, his place kicking was pretty much spot (Sextons was way off) and he was a petulant when clapping Brits off the pitch but I don't think he was terrible.

His kicking was fine, but the rest of his game was poor. Big, big improvement when Sexton came on. Nearly all the other players can be satisfied with their work. Second row is going to be very competitive, backrow, FB and wings too. Real embarrassment of riches there. Roberts and JD2 were close to their best. Let's see what BoD and Manu have got.

Mike P was his usual self - commitment and power, but also some flaws. Thought he should have scored on the break that became a try for O'Connell. But he did make that break - and the two others he scored. He's quick off the first 10 yards, then relies on power to get over.

not in the kicking department, he had a awful time. We need someone to keep the scoreboard ticking over in the tests if we have any chance to win it. Having said that, they move back to using gilbert balls so Sexton's kicking may be spot on for the rest of the tournament.

Halfpenny will start. Think the kicking will be just fine

very good point! completely overlooked that.

samuraidragon wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:I don't think Farrell was as bad a people are making out, his place kicking was pretty much spot (Sextons was way off) and he was a petulant when clapping Brits off the pitch but I don't think he was terrible.

His kicking was fine, but the rest of his game was poor. Big, big improvement when Sexton came on. Nearly all the other players can be satisfied with their work. Second row is going to be very competitive, backrow, FB and wings too. Real embarrassment of riches there. Roberts and JD2 were close to their best. Let's see what BoD and Manu have got.

Mike P was his usual self - commitment and power, but also some flaws. Thought he should have scored on the break that became a try for O'Connell. But he did make that break - and the two others he scored. He's quick off the first 10 yards, then relies on power to get over.

Bedford mate,

Did you miss the failure to provide a try scoring pass after the teams hard work? The charged down kick, the aimless kicks to the opposition half (one of which was close to causing an opening try for Payne, dropped balls (wet ball means you should not be standing so deep at flyhalf, all players were struggling to get long passes away not just Mike Phillips), he took wrong options as well as his lack of composure under pressure. He missed his kick after the Britz incident.

Now Bedford, if Farrell had of been Priestland yesterday you would have been in an apocalyptic rage..!!!

Farrell deserves another chance, that was an awful performance, he was a liability and as such no use to this tour. If he can't prove his worth in another game I would replace him with Biggar, Burns or Madigan.

A good training run in awful conditions.

Very little can be learned from the game.

The tour starts on Wed

I'll be shocked if Halfpenny isn't the front line goal kicker for the Lions, especially after yesterday

As allty said.... a post-longhaul fight, post-weeks of training blow out against a side whose players got some more spending money for their holidays.

The tour starts in Australia after the promotional stop-over.

BamBam wrote:Lydiate scoring more than a 5 would amaze me. Likewise Mako getting less than a 7

Explain why on both counts?

flyhalffactory wrote:

BamBam wrote:Lydiate scoring more than a 5 would amaze me. Likewise Mako getting less than a 7

Explain why on both counts?

I thought Lydiate was good. He's not a flashy player, he's pragmatic and what he does makes a big difference.

Mako did really well. That was one of his best games, he shares a maturity and a tranquility with his cousin Toby that is very impressive. There was one point where Walsh had a very stern word with him, he didnt inflame the situation, just got on with his job and ended up winning a penalty for the lions from the next scrum.

I like players that answer questions with good performances.

Looking forward to seeing young Mako really make a name for him this tour. The environment is definitely going to help him develop.

rodders wrote:

Notch wrote:
My worry is Owen Farrell. Still unconvinced.

Yup comfortably the Lions worst player. His distribution is awful and he has a poor temperament.

Phillips was a well deserving motm, closely followed by O'Connell,Roberts and Tipuric. Hogg really impressed too and he and Tipuric are real dark horses for the test team on this form.

O'Connell was pretty colossal, despite playing within himself a bit and clearly is someone all the players look to for leadership. When you look at his and Tipurics form, as well as the depth in the back row, Warburton looks an increasingly poor choice as captain.

North and Murray looked very sharp when they came on. Maitland was disappointing though and although its early days was badly outshone by Cuthbert.

All things considered a very powerful start by the Lions albeit the Baa-baas were very disappointing, Joe Rococco apart. There is a predictability though about the Lions that may cost them come the test series.

Yes, about as bad as that served to him by Phillips. How you missed his wobblers I'm not sure. That said Bluesman made a good point that Farrell was positioned too far away.

POC was fantastic, as usual. Wish he'd been picked as captain but I'm sure Warbs will do a good job.

maestegmafia wrote:

flyhalffactory wrote:

BamBam wrote:Lydiate scoring more than a 5 would amaze me. Likewise Mako getting less than a 7

Explain why on both counts?

I thought Lydiate was good. He's not a flashy player, he's pragmatic and what he does makes a big difference.

Mako did really well. That was one of his best games, he shares a maturity and a tranquility with his cousin Toby that is very impressive. There was one point where Walsh had a very stern word with him, he didnt inflame the situation, just got on with his job and ended up winning a penalty for the lions from the next scrum.

I like players that answer questions with good performances.

Looking forward to seeing young Mako really make a name for him this tour. The environment is definitely going to help him develop.

Whilst I rate Lydiate highly it really wasn't a game for him with the Baa Baas having so little possession he had no real chance to impose himself defensively. I was a bit disappointed not to see try to take up some more carrying since he didn't have as much defensive work to do. Given people's (mostly justified) criticism of his carrying game it would've been a good chance for him to try and prove a point to a few people. Given his upper body strength alone he should be very good around the finges/picking and going.

As for Mako's talking to another poster (formerly_known_as_sam I think) made a very good point that the talking to he had on a couple of occasion actually made Walsh come round to Mako's side of the scrum allowing Jones to bind on the arm and force a penalty from the other side. No idea whether it was intentional but given Rowntree's tuition and Paul James' dismayed look to the touch judge after the penalty it may well have been planned!

flyhalffactory wrote:

BamBam wrote:Lydiate scoring more than a 5 would amaze me. Likewise Mako getting less than a 7

Explain why on both counts?

Maestaeg and King Carlos pretty much hit it on the head.

For me, Lydiate was fairly invisible for most of the first 60 mins, he is a defensive specialist and the Baa Baas' had insufficient ball for him to show his tackling strength. He very rarely carried, and I didn't notice him very much at all. Having said that, he did improve in the last 20, but I can't give him much credit for the try, so I reckon a 5 is a fair rating. Average performance deserves an average rating.

I thought Mako was one of our best players, a few decent carries, a nice offload to Tipuric which nearly led to a try. Added to that his work in the scrum and showing he belongs in this stage I reckon he was worth a 7.

Maybe I am harsh with ratings, but I don't think anyone deserved higher than an 8, and Mako probably wasn't as good as Roberts etc who I would rate as an 8, so for me - Mako gets a 7 and Lydiate a 5

Sorry Risca, didn't mean to annoy; just blurting out my personal opinion. Let's just say I'm not a fan of Dan. Yes, he's a tackling machine. But so are lots of 6's. I like more from a 6 than getting through lots of tackles. Put it this way; if O'Brien just did what Lydiate does in a match, he'd be lauded for the tackle rate but also mildly criticized for just tackling, because more would be expected of him.

Obrian does not do what Lydiate does and never does in fact in the 6 nations it was said that he was playing his way out of the Lions squad.His form was not good .In yesterdays game Gatland said and i quote Lydiate worked his socks off today and believe it or not it is his opinion that matters not any of yours or mine.If Lydiate progresses as his form did yesterday in the game he will make the test team much to the dis cussed of some on here .And if he does,nt and O,brian or Croft does then i will supprt them all the way as i will not decry any of these boys who are trying there best and desrve are whole hearted support.