Why Is Ward Going To Be Marked Down On Not Leaving The USA?

And fighters such as Floyd aren't?

Mayweather won't ever even fight outside of Vegas anymore, let alone the USA, he doesn't ahve his legacy tarnished for it, all of a sudden Ward should fight in the UK or he will forever have question marks around him? How many great American fighters have there been that haven't fought outside of the USA?

Kinda ridiculous to keep putting that cloud over him if you ask me... De La Hoya never left the states, there's a current debate on whether he was great or not, the fact that he never fought outside of the states isn't an issue with him, doesn't even come up, but with Ward it is because a Brit travelled who is along the same timeline as him.

Well apparently Ward owes Froch a fight in the UK

Why Ward owes Froch a fight in the UK I dont know but apparently he does

I totally agree though Alex why he doesnt need to leave the US although I think he needs to take fights out of his hometown and bring himself to the American boxing public but there is not one fighter outside the US that deserves him leaving anyway

Love how your flag is now Brazilian Steffan, you must truly hate England...

AlexHuckerby wrote:Love how your flag is now Brazilian Steffan, you must truly hate England...

Only in football mate

Your rugby fans and players are a decent bunch

Boxing fans are a bit hit and miss but you get that with the Welsh ones as well to be fair

not such a case of him "needing" to, but more a case of it being the only really being something he has yet to prove. Currently in this division there are very lfew places he can go. He has beat Froch yes But he has never left the USA and Froch is currently no2 has had two very good victories since his loss to Ward and wants the rematch.

For me he needs to come to the UK to fight him or move up a weight into a very dull division. That's how I see it.

Mayweather has won more fights than Ward and this over shadows the fact he does not fight outside of the USA either, but its still a factor as we are actually not aware how Floyd would fight out of the USA and his home nation comforts.. if it was not for his impressive 0 he would have that pointed out as a flaw.

Prehaps he is worried that if he comes to England he will get robbed against Froch like his mate Dirrell did

I am not sure how Dirrell was robbed.. He tried to nick the fight and ran Froch very close... gave him all kinds of problems with his speed but was also holding and grabbing all night long so it was not exactly a robbery with Froch winning.

besides that's all part and parcel with fighting over seas and why it merits respect and credit.

I think what irks some people, including myself to an extent, is that Ward has always had everything in his favour, something that isn't true of Floyd. Even with the super six tournament's informal home/away system, he still had all home fights. I'm not sure if all this has much of an impact on his ranking and legacy, but it is a bit annoying.

Agreed. It has become clear that he didnt need any advantages during the super six, he could have beat any of them anywhere in the world.

I think Ward is in danger of being marked down by his relative inactivity and the fact that he has already handily beat everyone in and around his weight division. I genuinely dont know what he does for the next couple of years.

Ward is easily P4P #2 at the moment, but we're yet to see how he fares when he's not got everything he wants in terms of location, fans etc. He seemed to get pretty riled which is out of character when asked if he'd come here. I think he'd beat Froch pretty handily again, but even still you can tell he's worried about the effect it may have.

I'd mark him down....slightly, if he doesn't venture into an "away" arena. Referencing football, its almost like in the Champions League if a team only ever played home games, such as United. It'd be rather different.

I think he only gets marked down by Froch fans. He's p4P no. 2, I think given the level of opposition he has beat and how at ease he has been beating them, there is even a case of making him P4P no.1 and Floyd No. 2. But Floyd seems to be a carved in stone No.1 until defeat of retirement catch up with him.

He really isn't being marked down by the boxing community at large, It is testament to how far he is ahead of any potential opposition that people think he should fight with a handicap.

Who's marking Ward down???.........An idiot from Nottingham and a few internet surfers who know F-all about Boxing..........

Yeah I can see it when the ATg rankings come around in 2025........

"Ward should be top 20 but he didn't travel to England to face a guy he took the pee out of a couple of years before"..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Who's marking Ward down???.........An idiot from Nottingham and a few internet surfers who know F-all about Boxing..........

Yeah I can see it when the ATg rankings come around in 2025........

"Ward should be top 20 but he didn't travel to England to face a guy he took the pee out of a couple of years before"..

Couldnt agree more Truss

The idiot from Nottingham should keep that slimey mouth shut (his repulsive accent doesnt help). He aint gonna beat Ward. Not now not ever

Ward has no reason to come to England and no one other than Froch fan boys are gonna care that he doesnt

And I thought you guys liked Chris

I don't believe it will have any bearing on his standing, however, I think it's a fair request from Froch.

I can't see Ward fighting Froch in Nottingham -- this is a guy who thought that Atlantic City was fighting on the road.

If it works out more lucrative for him to do so then he'll need to weigh up the risk but if he then chooses not to do so it won't hurt his overall standing -- just means the rematch probably doesn't happen (which hurts Froch more I'd say).

As for Dirrell being robbed: I was there that night and he fought like a thief -- his negativity cost him not home cooking.

ShahenshahG wrote:And I thought you guys liked Chris

For Ward to get robbed on the UK judges scorecards his jetlag would have to have been caused by him having a fight in Australia two days before and the jet he flew to England in would have to land at Heathrow with 20mins to spare before the first bell.

Outside of that, he hands Froch his rear end...again!

ShahenshahG wrote:And I thought you guys liked Chris

Fine work, Shah!

Ward won't be knocked down for this, he instead has a problem similar to the one that Mayweather faces.

Basically he is just too good for his division.

Because of this we, as boxing fans are trying to find a way to even the playing field. Mayweather fighting at a higher weight than he is comfortable and Ward having to come to Nottingham for a Froch fight.

Ward beats Froch pretty much anywhere because he is just better than Froch but the Nottingham element would make it tougher for him.

Let's look at Ward, who does he fight if he doesn't fight Froch?

Hopkins - a chance to beat a legend at a higher weight (not huge money though)

Dawson at Light Heavy - should be a fairly easy win (an average amount of money).

Froch in the US - a chance to beat someone he already beat fairly convincingly. Can't see too many Americans buying into the fight even though Froch has been doing well recently (an average amount of money).

Froch in the UK - Big with the UK audience (good PPV money)

Will be interesting to see which way he goes, doesn't seem to struggle with the weight so moving up may not be a priority.

From a legacy view Froch adds nothing that isn't already there. Money would probably be the biggest motivator for this fight but probably only in the UK.

For me he may as well start taking out the rest of the super middles for a year or so and then see who is on the horizon. Could beat Bute and Stieglitz fairly comfortably then the would be a bit of a turnaround in the super middleweight division.

Froch, Kesslar, Bika and Abraham are all in the top ten and getting to the stage they will want to retire (all mid-late 30's) or start to drop down the rankings leaving their spots for a few of the other younger guys to come through and get a shot.

Ward shouldn't be criticised for his not leaving the US other than not doing so during the Super 6 when everyone else left their own countries.

He is super-effective in the way he fights. The only problem he has is he is not pretty to watch and has the charisma of beige paint. Regardless of how well he beat Froch first time out (and it wasn't close), Froch is the headline grabber in the division, simply because he's exciting. Ward isn't.

Despite him being the best in the division he can't draw flies to an enormous pile of doo-doo; Froch has a point in trying to get his own terms for the fight but he would lose again anyway...

Can someone explain why he "should not" come to the UK?@

Froch is the cash cow at SMW. He also holds the most titles. Not only that, but how often has Ward fought recently?

Ward NEEDS to come across.

He has never faced a hostile crowd unlike the majority of champions:

Vitali Klitschko - went to poland to fight Adamek
Froch - went to the states for Ward and Taylor let alone his kessler trip
Mayweather - went to beat popular Gatti in front of his home fans
Calzaghe - trips to the states and europe (germany)
Haye - Germany to fight Wlad and Valuev
Khan - fought Peterson on his own turf
Rhodes - fought alvarez in mexico
Murray - martinez in argentina

Why is ward exempt and why is he p4p 2?

Boring fighter he don't test himself abroad and who rarely fights. When he does the crowd sleep and if they do he headbutts the opposition into oblivion. He gets away with it whilst the ref chills on angry birds as he finds it more interesting.

I rate Ward as number 2 on the strength of his talent and the opposition he has beaten.

He beat Froch comfortably without headbutts. I think his "need" to go to the UK is diluted by virute that the challenger that resides there is one who he has already beaten, and beaten well.

Froch holding more titles is a pretty lame reason for Ward to go to the UK btw. The only real incentive for him to go there would be if Hearn offers up enough money to tempt him.

Not really manos. Ward has no pulling power, less titles, inactive, not travelled and is p4p2??

Marquez beat paquiao easily in the 3rd fight and yet lost.....took the rematch.

Not really what? I dont see what relevanc pulling power has on ranking fighters ability. It doesnt matter that Froch gets bigger figures. It doesnt matter that Froch holds two belts because it only down to a ridiculous multi belt system. Ward is the real champion.

I dont see what relevance Pacquiao or Marquezhave. Marquez was robbed and took a lucrative rematch.

Froch was beaten fair and square pretty comprehensively. Ward is the best in the division. Everything points to it. Thats what matters to me in assessing my pound for pound ratings. Not whether he holds a pointless alphabet title or if he does good ppv numbers.

mobilemaster8 wrote:Not really manos. Ward has no pulling power, less titles, inactive, not travelled and is p4p2??

Marquez beat paquiao easily in the 3rd fight and yet lost.....took the rematch.

Ward beat froch easily. Nuff said.

As a side note, Ward holds two titles, just as Froch does; the proper (or 'Super', if they insist on that ridiculous name for it) WBA belt, which he took from Kessler (the one Mikkel carried in to the ring on Saturday night meant zilch in the big picture, much like Povetkin's Heavyweight strap) and, more tellingly, the Ring Magazine title as well, which he was awarded for beating Froch with something to spare.

Just out of interest, does anyone know how much money the Froch v Kessler fight made?
Froch being a'Cash cow' has been mentioned a lot recently when giving reasons for Ward to rematch him over here so just wondered how much that term equated to.

I dont want to knock Frochs entitlement to a rematch claim, because he has done everything he can really to put himself in line for one. But theres no real escaping from the reality of his fight with Ward or the respective levels in ability displayed by both over their careers so far.

Id like to see Ward go to the UK but I dont think he has any real obligation to. I dont think Ward will rule out the UK but it will take more money from Hearn to make the fight happen.

Well for me gents I dont rate him highly at all. I find him ultra boring and inactive. Not only yhat, but he has never put himself in the lions den which the majority of champions have done.

Let him continue fighting in Oakland with no fans. I really dont think anybody cares.

Don't underestimate the advantage of being at home. One only has to look at football to understand what it means to be performing in front of your own fans. It is one of the biggest advantages you can have.

Does that mean that any win for a fighter that does not occur in his opponents backyard in front of their fans comes with an asterix regardless of the comprehensiveness of the result?

Unfortunately for Froch, I dont think he can rely on any of the old excuses that are thrown at Ward. The fight want in Oakland. Ok, it wasnt exactly neurtal territory, but it wasnt Wards backyard either. He wasnt headbutted to death or fouled to defeat. The bout was generally clean. The ref and judges werent out to get him. Far from it. They did him a favour.

I wouldnt deny home advantage is an advantage. If you were talking two similarly matched fighters eg Froch and Kessler then it could make a huge differance. But this is two fighters on two differant levels based on what I have seen so far.

It has to be considered Manos for sure, as for how much emphasis you place on it I'm not sure.

Wards owes Froch a rematch in the UK about as much as Kessler did. I personally think it would enhance his reputation winning away from home. Who knows how he would perform in front of a partisan crowd. People have crumbled under less pressure. Anyway, he is boring, I'd rather Froch fights Groves.

Still think Ward wins though.

I think Froch has earned a rematch although I wouldnt say that Ward owes him one in the UK. I think the champion is entitled to the associated benefits. Froch is reasonably fortunate that Ward is entertaining a rematch at all as I dont really think there is any huge demand for it outside of the UK, and the first fight was quite comprehensive. I suspect he has managed to get under Wards skin though, which if he maintains it might end up stinging Ward into coming to the UK or accepting less of a share to have the fight in the US again.

I still think Groves needs a couple more fights and would prefer to see him in with Stieglitz, with hopefully a unification fight with Froch to follow.

Froch is the draw. This is business ward could earn a fortune in the UK. Let's not pretend this game is about anything more than money.