Thoughts on mens' quarters

First topic message reminder :

So, we finally get to the quarter-finals, with all top 4 seeds safely through. Arguably Ferrer has been the most impressive, but arguably he's the least likely to win the tournament. Djokovic has had some shaky moments but finished his matches strongly. Nadal stepped it up against Nishikori but still hasn't hit top form. Ferrer has been v impressive, and Federer has been a bit hot and cold - the best that can be said about the Simon match was at least the 5 sets were over relatively quickly.

Djokovic v Haas. Haas' great year continues, and he was v impressive in crushing Youzhny in straights after that epic win over Isner. Haas has a complete all-court game which if executed well could trouble Djokovic, as we've seen earlier this year. My heart says Haas in 4, but my head says Djokovic to prevail in 4, after a tricky start.

Nadal v Wawrinka. Great to see Wawrinka finally maintaining his form through slam tournaments. Nadal has looked vulnerable at times and Stan will really go for it here. I think this could be a great match and it may even go the distance, but I don't think the Swiss is consistent enough over 5 sets to beat Nadal. Nadal in 5 sets.

Ferrer v Robredo. I'm glad that the media have picked up on Robredo's consecutive 5 set comebacks, but Ferrer will be a step too far. Mentally and physically, Robredo will be too shattered to last the pace in this one. This will be the most one-sided quarter-final - Ferrer in 3 fairly straightforward sets.

Federer v Tsonga. Tsonga has really impressed me this tournament - some great defensive tennis to back up his attacking prowess, and he really seems to have sharpened up the tactical side of his game. Federer's form has been hard to judge - great in patches but sloppy at other times. Although this is clay, the serve will be vital, and Tsonga is serving better than Federer at the moment. I'll say Tsonga in 5 sets.

lydian wrote:To be fair family, etc, was his choice.
Family, kids, etc...is always going to increasingly lead your singular focus elsewhere.
So when we hear of decline lets bear in mind a lot of it is actually his choice to not spend as much time on the practice court or in the gym, etc.

I want Nole to get a Mohawk and seriously diss Mirke while driving Annacone into an early grave.

Worked before.

http://tinyurl.com/mmvlbf6

Perhaps Canas was getting a little help back then...

I think it is motivation BB - he's sitting atop the world with no-one near him besides Nadal on clay. He's got so little left to prove to himself, never mind anyone else. When you've achieved it all how do you carry on with the same physical training intensity? If he worked out like Haas, or the way he used to do, he could maybe get another couple of slams but then you might say...so what he might say? 17 becomes 19 but the picture doesn't change.

I'm not sure if he's Hendry or Davis...he doesn't seem to mind losing now he's achieved all he wanted so maybe he'll carry on. Perhaps he'll get a 2nd wind as he realises the curtain is dropping and dives back into the gym again. If he does decide to carry on it cant be half-arsed, he needs to commit to the tour fully and all the training or just bow out otherwise he doing no-one any favours and he'll become a whipping boy.

I suspect this morning he knows he's at the tipping point. Its either all or nothing. Haas obviously got to the point and decided to head back into the gym. Maybe with the end getting visibly nearer, he realises pro-tennis time is more precious so gives Paganini a call and says "Right Paggy, where were we with that 2004 gym routine?"

Yeah. I think we should all accept the great play Roger gave us and realise that it's unrealistic to expect the same now and actually be grateful for when he does show glimpses (i.e. Wimbledon / O2 semi & final)

I've been more perturbed by some of those almost painstakingly hanging on to their memories and trying to think that the same thing could happen at the 'next' event

I learnt the hard way with Mac, when I rather stuipidly thought he could give that brash kid from Vegas a lesson at Wimby 92', simply because he played well in 84'

Amazingly I came to love Agassi - but didn't make the mistake when he played Fed in 2005!!!

And that's the point. Connors gave Roswell a caning and then got spanked by Mac who got toasted by Agassi who then got a beating by Federer

The greats come and go, but we can always remember their great play as well as when it didn't go as great

Anyway, let's move on, i.e. to today's play / players

as someone who likes watching federer, watching him yesterday was not particularly likeable. having said that, his loss is not unexpected.

there arent any rose tinted glasses here. he was and is a great player and no two ways about that.

tsonga will lose to ferrer. tsonga has only one big match in him in any slam and this was it.

wawrinka will lose to nadal.

so pretty expected lineup.

Maybe this defeat - it was bad, worse than the scoreline in my opinion - might help. As he's declined he's had all this "Oh the quarter final streak", and the general media insistence that everyone is playing better than ever that perhaps could aid self-delusion.

As you say, he'd have to be an idiot not to have realised that yesterday told him something; that the issue today isn't whether he can he tackle Djokovic, Murray & Nadal, but can he even handle Tsonga & Berdych (who's also been getting on top of him progressively).

The upside is that he did seem to put something into later 2011 / 2012, so like you say it's choice.

bogbrush wrote:I want Nole to get a Mohawk and seriously diss Mirke while driving Annacone into an early grave.

Worked before.

http://tinyurl.com/mmvlbf6

And then he could receive the coaching from 'Rocky Balboa' (the sixth film):

"To beat this guy, you need speed. You don't have it. And you've got weakness in your back, so sparring is out. So what we'll be calling on is blunt force trauma. Let's start building some hurtin' bombs "

[cut to Fed hitting ballistic forehands and a shot speedometer showing ever higher numbers]

I agree banbrotam, except with the caveat that IMO if Roger could find the motivation to condition himself fully again he has the raw tennis ability to still give the young 'uns a caning for another couple of slam wins. Plus lets not forget there are no new major talents coming through...unlike McEnroe having to worry about Agassi, Agassi about Fed, etc, but there are no new guys 10 years younger than Fed to scare him - if he was as fit/strong as he could be then there is no reason he couldn't be right up there in the slam finals.

The problem is, Federer is now 31 and not a spring chicken. He can turn up as fresh as a daisy for R1, but winning 7 professional matches in a row is not easy. French Open was always his worst slam, and it's also the most physical. That's a bad combination. Wimbledon will be much better and I have a feeling he will surprise you there.... again. His ability can shine on faster courts because he is relying on his skill and not so much on the physical side, which is a let down in later years. As Nadal, Djokovic and Murray will soon discover (in fact, I think Nadal is already discovering it).

Good point homogenised, agree

Actually, I'm warming to this theme

http://tinyurl.com/bkw52m

Are those Lleyton Hewitt and Andy Roddick in the first minute?

Well moving forward, I have to say that if Novak loses today, and Rafa does what he needs to do, then this tournament is Rafa's to lose. The only person who can derail Rafa's progress towards title #8 is Djokovic. Ferrer does not have any weapons to trouble the man who has only lost once in eight years in Paris and Tsonga, although highly streaky and unpredictable, would be taken to the cleaners by one of the most dominant clay court players in history.

Novak is really the only barrier in Nadal's way.

lydian wrote:Good point homogenised, agree

Cheers. I just feel it's much better if we accept the truth that Federer has been on the decline physically for a while, and that one day, he won't be playing. Anything he does nowadays is a bonus and we should appreciate him for what he is now, and what he has given us, but not unfairly compare him to yesteryear. It isn't fair to criticise the guy or tell him to retire just because he doesn't enter god-mode as often these days. He enjoys playing, and we should respect that. I see it a lot in every sport... where once they aren't as good as what they were, they are thrown to one-side and criticised. Any respect that Federer lacked from others should have been dispelled when he reclaimed number 1 against all odds last season. At the age he is at, that tells you all you need to know about the great man. It's time to be realistic... can he win another Slam? Yes, he can. Can he dominate like 04-07? No, he is never going to do that again. But so what?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Federer#Grand_Slam_tournament_performance_timeline

That has to be respected.

Anyway... sorry about that off-topic.

Well its sad to see Fed dismissed in that fashion but clearly it was expected, he was not any where close to his best and physicality of Tennis is taking its toll, the worst part is the motivation, not sure how much motivation left in him to do the hard practice to get back into match shape to fight the young ones/

I am not so optimistic of his Wimbledon chances neither gonna rule him out, he gave a lot to Tennis and some day it all has to come and thank goodness its all been gradual.

@homogenised - my sentiments too. If the guy is enjoying it let him play on till he's had enough - I would not think it 'sad' if he gets kicked around a bit, like he used to administer kickings himself, we all get older.

I'm with lydian on this one, which seems to be happening a lot lately, for whatever reason! I was thinking yesterday that Federer looked like he was carrying slightly too much weight around the midsection compared to even last year, and particularly compared to fellow players. And the Haas comparison was one that jumped into my mind - he looks fit and strong, dedicated to putting in the hard yards. And of course, he has far fewer miles on the clock despite the age difference.

I think that motivation does play a key role - Federer would've naturally declined regardless, but perhaps it's been steepened by a relative lack of conditioning. Given the murmurings about his current peers catching up with him long-term, and that they would've had a chance to beat him during his prime years, I would've thought that the motivation would be there to work like a dog in the gym and give it everything over the next two years. If he's serious about Rio, then why not? This is his life - family commitments will take their toll, and there's no doubt he's a man with many interests outside of the sport. But on the flipside, you only get one shot at a pro career.

I hate to say it, but I can't see him realistically competing for slams across the board again unless he rededicates himself. I hope he hasn't been suckered into thinking that he could make up for a lack of fitness with innate talent, because in reality that gap is harder to bridge than most think, certainly at the top level. If yesterday was indeed the tipping point (as someone mentioned), then we'll see how things go for the rest of the year. An upturn in results would be nice, but I don't expect it; and if it doesn't happen, then the inexorable slide may well continue.

Note that none of the above are excuses from a fan for his poor performances, just an assessment. Even if people don't particularly like the man, most enjoy his brand of tennis when he's playing well...let's hope that he decides it's worth it. Bah, I'm usually quite positive about Federer's future prospects, too. Damn you, lydian

Silver wrote:I think that motivation does play a key role - Federer would've naturally declined regardless, but perhaps it's been steepened by a relative lack of conditioning. Given the murmurings about his current peers catching up with him long-term, and that they would've had a chance to beat him during his prime years, I would've thought that the motivation would be there to work like a dog in the gym and give it everything over the next two years. If he's serious about Rio, then why not? This is his life - family commitments will take their toll, and there's no doubt he's a man with many interests outside of the sport. But on the flipside, you only get one shot at a pro career.

If I were Fed I'd be of the opinion that I put all that crap to bed by beating Djokovic & Murray at Wimbledon in two days and reclaiming the #1. I mean, what else do you have to do on the brink of your 31st birthday against these guys at 25/6?

I agree is he a carrying a little extra weight.. off camera I see ther Mirka is too.. maybe their holiday was just a little indulgent too many burgers and ice creams with the kids. All part of him being a family man and paying less attention to the diet perhaps

bogbrush wrote:Actually, I'm warming to this theme

http://tinyurl.com/bkw52m

Are those Lleyton Hewitt and Andy Roddick in the first minute?

Pre-Clubber Lang was definitely a weak era, so maybe!

Now picture this scene but with Federer as Rocky and Pete Sampras as Apollo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhEHV2JGpM8&sns=em

This is shaping into a cinematic masterpiece!

bogbrush wrote:

Silver wrote:I think that motivation does play a key role - Federer would've naturally declined regardless, but perhaps it's been steepened by a relative lack of conditioning. Given the murmurings about his current peers catching up with him long-term, and that they would've had a chance to beat him during his prime years, I would've thought that the motivation would be there to work like a dog in the gym and give it everything over the next two years. If he's serious about Rio, then why not? This is his life - family commitments will take their toll, and there's no doubt he's a man with many interests outside of the sport. But on the flipside, you only get one shot at a pro career.

If I were Fed I'd be of the opinion that I put all that crap to bed by beating Djokovic & Murray at Wimbledon in two days and reclaiming the #1. I mean, what else do you have to do on the brink of your 31st birthday against these guys at 25/6?

Running to the Cincinnati title without dropping serve is quite a nice 'after'. Once he failed to turn that form into a big showing at the USO 2012 I think he's sagged a bit, and as you say, why the hell not - #1, #7, and #302 has really left him with little else to do except play for the love of it. He's happy at home and he's got plenty to do away from the Court, it's almost impossible to imagine that his fire for winning is equivalent to what it was a year ago, let alone half a dozen years ago.

bogbrush wrote:

Silver wrote:I think that motivation does play a key role - Federer would've naturally declined regardless, but perhaps it's been steepened by a relative lack of conditioning. Given the murmurings about his current peers catching up with him long-term, and that they would've had a chance to beat him during his prime years, I would've thought that the motivation would be there to work like a dog in the gym and give it everything over the next two years. If he's serious about Rio, then why not? This is his life - family commitments will take their toll, and there's no doubt he's a man with many interests outside of the sport. But on the flipside, you only get one shot at a pro career.

If I were Fed I'd be of the opinion that I put all that crap to bed by beating Djokovic & Murray at Wimbledon in two days and reclaiming the #1. I mean, what else do you have to do on the brink of your 31st birthday against these guys at 25/6?

I subscribe to that viewpoint too, but quite a few don't. I guess he shouldn't be (and probably isn't) fussed about it, and with a happy and evolving home life, the desire to pour yet more time into something that may not be guaranteed to pay dividends probably isn't as strong...understandably so. It's his life, after all, and he's already given millions of fans many years of magic. Still, I can't help but think about the damage that he could inflict on the tour again if he really went after the fitness in a big way.

lol silver...sorry to be the harbinger of doom!

I think we're agreed on the outlook though. He's probably got another 2 years in him (13 & 14) of challenging on the faster courts (RG was always difficult anyway) for slam titles. So yes, why not rededicate? Surely Mirka would be fine for him to give it one last push...because he's got the rest of his life to spend with his kids, he wont have much else to do!

I think he's been putting in a lot less gym work for a while now and its taking its toll. Like silver I believe he thinks talent is enough but it isn't in this era. Maybe having the mono stopped his training routine and he simply got out of the habit but if Haas can do it then why not Federer! The guy isn't particularly injured so all those miles haven't taken too much of a toll on him and he hasnt got masses of competition outside 4-5 players.

Maybe the RG loss might push him into the gym...I hope so because compare these images of Federer over the years I've just put together:


His neck is now narrower, traps on his shoulders are smaller, more bodyfat, delts on his shoulders are smaller, pecs much less defined/smaller and stomach area just doesn't look as strong.

In contrast, at 35 years old look at this pic of Haas:


Wow...that's some physique and the contrast with Federer is clear to see.

HM Murdoch wrote:

bogbrush wrote:Actually, I'm warming to this theme

http://tinyurl.com/bkw52m

Are those Lleyton Hewitt and Andy Roddick in the first minute?

Pre-Clubber Lang was definitely a weak era, so maybe!

Now picture this scene but with Federer as Rocky and Pete Sampras as Apollo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhEHV2JGpM8&sns=em

This is shaping into a cinematic masterpiece!

That would be awesome if Pete Sampras joins Fed's camp for the remaining of his outer. What a delight that would be for Tennis fans to see to legends working together for the final straw

HM Murdoch wrote:

bogbrush wrote:Actually, I'm warming to this theme

http://tinyurl.com/bkw52m

Are those Lleyton Hewitt and Andy Roddick in the first minute?

Pre-Clubber Lang was definitely a weak era, so maybe!

Now picture this scene but with Federer as Rocky and Pete Sampras as Apollo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhEHV2JGpM8&sns=em

This is shaping into a cinematic masterpiece!

I was waiting for that! Micky does say something to that effect in the film!!

Nothing's perfect though.


EDIT: No pics, Lydian.

No pics? I can see them on the page from here...anyone else?

lydian wrote:lol silver...sorry to be the harbinger of doom!

I think we're agreed on the outlook though. He's probably got another 2 years in him (13 & 14) of challenging on the faster courts (RG was always difficult anyway) for slam titles. So yes, why not rededicate? Surely Mirka would be fine for him to give it one last push...because he's got the rest of his life to spend with his kids, he wont have much else to do!

I think he's been putting in a lot less gym work for a while now and its taking its toll. Like silver I believe he thinks talent is enough but it isn't in this era. Maybe having the mono stopped his training routine and he simply got out of the habit but if Haas can do it then why not Federer! The guy isn't particularly injured so all those miles haven't taken too much of a toll on him and he hasnt got masses of competition outside 4-5 players.

Maybe the RG loss might push him into the gym...I hope so because compare these images of Federer over the years I've just put together:


His neck is now narrower, traps on his shoulders are smaller, more bodyfat, delts on his shoulders are smaller, pecs much less defined/smaller and stomach area just doesn't look as strong.

In contrast, at 35 years old look at this pic of Haas:


Wow...that's some physique and the contrast with Federer is clear to see.

Thx for putting it together Lyd, I remember the young days of Fed, he was awesome, he did have that "eye of the Tiger" and like Rocky movies those eyes don't look scarier any more, it has gone gentle with time, that shows his focus has diminished with time.

Now getting back into his fitness thingy, man o man he looks great shape, good shape and now ok shape, I guess he will write this year off Lyd, we might see a pinch of fight back in Wimbledon but I am pretty sure he will give one big a go in 2014 and then call it off.

I really wanted him to win one last FO and Wimbledon, specifically French Open.

On Tommy Haas, he knows he hasn't fulfilled his potential and now trying his best to make the maximum out of it at the grandpapa age, A sport is in in healthy hands when 3 generations come hand in hand, we see the older generation still doing it and the current crop of Djoko/Rafa/Murray/Tsonga/Del Potro doing it but unfortunately the young ones are not stepping up.

bogbrush wrote:I was waiting for that! Micky does say something to that effect in the film!!

He does, doesn't he!

In fact, as of now, my official position on the early 00s is:

"They wasn't setups. They was good fighters, but they wasn't killers like this guy."

Where possible, I will express it in Burgess Meredith's voice.

HM Murdoch wrote:

bogbrush wrote:I was waiting for that! Micky does say something to that effect in the film!!

He does, doesn't he!

In fact, as of now, my official position on the early 00s is:

"They wasn't setups. They was good fighters, but they wasn't killers like this guy."

Where possible, I will express it in Burgess Meredith's voice.

The only thing is do Tsonga merit the status of Clubber ? it would have been apt for Djoko to play it

HM Murdoch wrote:In fact, as of now, my official position on the early 00s is:

"They wasn't setups. They was good fighters, but they wasn't killers like this guy."

Where possible, I will express it in Burgess Meredith's voice.

Pics are fine for me, lydian - and highlighting a stark contrast too, as you say. He's never been absolutely massive like some players, but in the past was extremely strong and efficient in terms of his muscular physique. I think we're fully agreed across the board, and I'd love to see him give it another go. He does have an ego though, and maybe that might persist in getting in the way. It's a big ask, but when you're acknowledged as the best...may as well try to extend the records while you have time. And every professional sportsman loves winning.

Haas looks in excellent nick, it has to be said!

[quote="HM Murdoch"]

antonico wrote:I don't think it's crazy to suggest to that Novak may end up with a better clay record.
Period.

"May" is a child's game of wishful thinking. When Djokovic makes 5 French Open Finals, we can entertain whether he's accomplished on clay what Federer has. And not until. Period.

antonico wrote:
"May" is a child's game of wishful thinking. When Djokovic makes 5 French Open Finals, we can entertain whether he's accomplished on clay what Federer has. And not until. Period.

Spot on. In other news... 35 year old Tommy is having his haas kicked as predicted.

invisiblecoolers wrote: I remember the young days of Fed, he was awesome, he did have that "eye of the Tiger" and like Rocky movies those eyes don't look scarier any more, it has gone gentle with time, that shows his focus has diminished with time.

Now getting back into his fitness thingy, man o man he looks great shape, good shape and now ok shape, I guess he will write this year off Lyd, we might see a pinch of fight back in Wimbledon but I am pretty sure he will give one big a go in 2014 and then call it off.

Someone said on here once that they'd seen him up close and his musculature made it seem as if he was like a skeleton wrapped in steel cords.

antonico wrote:"May" is a child's game of wishful thinking.

Too easy...

antonico wrote:Maybe the real reason that Djokovic doesn't want to talk about anything is because he's knows theories like the Bodo Tinfoil Hat one is nonsense

antonico wrote:all I can say is that whatever he stated publicly might not be exactly what he actually thought.

antonico wrote:That loss to Dimitrov - coupled with the meltdown against Berdych - could well be signs that the air might already be starting to flow through his respiratory system with more difficulty.

Thank goodness these four 3-set QFs didn't happen at Wimby, or some people would be calling for the grass courts to be slowed down

I see Rafa is dismissing Stan easily, just as I said he would.

I see Djokovic is not above a little bit of moonballing to a SHBH.

In my club days, moonballing was the preserve of the middle aged ladies. Bottom line, real men don't moonball.

Edit: it was a very little bit.........

ok, so who thought Stan and Haas would put up a real challenge? I didn't (but not even a set from them). Shame Haas is so old... like Bogbrush said then he would have. Total walk over for Nadal.

Haas is a beast.

Haas you have been ferocious and a credit to the tournament, Stan needs to look at you

Answer to the OP - "yawn" with the sole exception of being pleased for Tsonga despite him beating TMF.

It looks like Nadal will have perfect conditions for his relentless spinny drudgery on Friday and will follow up by wrapping up his 8th dreary title on Sunday - perhaps even by swatting aside his bunny Ferrer in a laughably one-sided thrashing. Then, whilst all kudos would be due for a great achievement, I wouldn't be bothering to watch.

Like some others I hope that Tsonga gets through and either faces Djoko in a re-run of Aus Open 2008 or can somehow take advantage of damper conditions forecast for Sunday and, if not win, at least force Nadal into a 4th or even a 5th set.

The tournament match will be on Friday in conditions that suit Nadal best.

Hey Lydian, now I'm on my ipad I can get those pictures.

Two points;

1. Yes it's clear.
2. What websites are you frequenting?

Allez Tommy! What an amazing tournament for him.

Poor Stan

lydian wrote:lol silver...sorry to be the harbinger of doom!

I think we're agreed on the outlook though. He's probably got another 2 years in him (13 & 14) of challenging on the faster courts (RG was always difficult anyway) for slam titles. So yes, why not rededicate? Surely Mirka would be fine for him to give it one last push...because he's got the rest of his life to spend with his kids, he wont have much else to do!

I think he's been putting in a lot less gym work for a while now and its taking its toll. Like silver I believe he thinks talent is enough but it isn't in this era. Maybe having the mono stopped his training routine and he simply got out of the habit but if Haas can do it then why not Federer! The guy isn't particularly injured so all those miles haven't taken too much of a toll on him and he hasnt got masses of competition outside 4-5 players.

Maybe the RG loss might push him into the gym...I hope so because compare these images of Federer over the years I've just put together:


His neck is now narrower, traps on his shoulders are smaller, more bodyfat, delts on his shoulders are smaller, pecs much less defined/smaller and stomach area just doesn't look as strong.

In contrast, at 35 years old look at this pic of Haas:


Wow...that's some physique and the contrast with Federer is clear to see.

Thanks for posting Lydian. Yep, the camera does not lie. At this rate, I could look like I am in better shape than Roger and I am a man with a weakness for food high in salt and carbohydrates. Roger certainly does not look as physically fit as years gone by. Tommy Haas by contrast, looks well toned and extremely chiseled.

Fed looks just like your average guy in that last picture.

back to the QFs, does anyone know when was last time we had only straight sets victories in a slam QFs?

Saw Federer at the last O2 from the front row and was struck with how old he looks. his legs kind of look old.

[quote="antonico"]

HM Murdoch wrote:

antonico wrote:I don't think it's crazy to suggest to that Novak may end up with a better clay record.
Period.

"May" is a child's game of wishful thinking. When Djokovic makes 5 French Open Finals, we can entertain whether he's accomplished on clay what Federer has. And not until. Period.

Busy today antonico, and had to respond to your last lengthy post. Djokovic is half way through his career and has already won a great deal on clay, your using Fed's career clay court stats against Djokovic assumes that Djokovic will not outgain Fed in the future. Since 2011 he has won 3 masters on the clay and beaten Nadal in 3 finals while reaching a slam final on the surface. You can argue about Fed's career numbers, but my statement is a predictive one about the future. I said that when their careers are said and done Novak will be regarded as a better clay court player than Federer, I did not say that as of right now Novak has had a better career on the clay. Anyone can make a prediction, that was mine. But your rebuttal of Fed's career numbers isn't much of rebuttable to future predictions.

kingraf wrote:Im rejoining the thread, it dawned on me that I was suckered into an argument. Although even in this argument I discussion I am saddened as the weather topic is being brought back again. Despite me having been told by all & sundry that the weather doesnt have "shet" to do with the result of a Djokovic match. Bogbrush might ask me what my point is... And I have none, really, it just really frustrates me as a person when something I said six weeks ago which got rubbished is now the gospel truth.

In fact it almost feels like a personal attack on me and my knowledge as a poster: from Socal - " That Djokovic would have beaten any Nadal on
any given surface and conditions on that given
day period."

Emancipator - "Dry clay? You mean like Rome and Madrid in
2011.
If Novak plays his best he wins regardless of the
surface. However even a small drop in novaks
level and rafa grinds out a win"

Danny 1982 - Kingraf - "It's ridiculous to blame conditions for
a defeat, especially in a match where the
conditions are relatively normal"

johnnyjeep - "So let me get this straight, Nadal goes
from being the king of clay to the king
of dry clay at sea level?
I promise
But i'm glad I'm not the only one who
is reading it like this lol"

IC intimating that Im a fanboy - "Welcome to the world of Fanboyism if you are
already not a part of it"

Now, of course, not only is the weather a factor, like I said, according to some it might be thee factor. I think I just need time away from this section of 606v2, will spend the next week or so hiding out in the boxing, basketball, and News section. See you all after Wimbledon

©Kingraf (thats how you declare youre taking time out)

Kingraf, come now, I did not go at you quite that hard. The way Djoko played at MC it isn't a far fetched conclusion to claim that if he plays that way he beats Nadal regardless of surface or conditions. Please we don't need another member of the Abused by Socal Encounter Group. The list is long and not so distinguished. In fact, I remember I told people they were being a bit harsh with you. Lydian and BB, both are part of your weatherman theory of who wins between Novak and Nadal on clay.

Me personally, I am hoping for a warm and dry day with no wind, lets test that hypothesis.

although I am disappointed, he really should have gone out in the QFs to JMDP last year before the Tandil giants knee seemed to be troubling him. A slam final would have been exciting but a mauling by Rafa or watching Novak complete a career slam against him wouldn't have been a better feeling so maybe he's saved us a greater frustration by going out now. He will still be a threat at Wimbledon but would have to admit I would love to see Andy take it

CAS wrote:although I am disappointed, he really should have gone out in the QFs to JMDP last year before the Tandil giants knee seemed to be troubling him. A slam final would have been exciting but a mauling by Rafa or watching Novak complete a career slam against him wouldn't have been a better feeling so maybe he's saved us a greater frustration by going out now. He will still be a threat at Wimbledon but would have to admit I would love to see Andy take it

Del Andy finals