Injured Or Playing Possum?

What was up with Novak in the third set of the RG semi? Was it his back, his shoulder or something else? At one point he rushed off court at change of ends telling the umpire he was going rather than asking. His body language between points was like a dying swan. The commentators thought he might retire. Strangely haven't seen much discussion about this after the match it's as if it didn't happen... So what was up with him? Was he injured or was it some sort of tactic or was he just resigned to losing?

Ill stick my neck out and say it was plan B

I really don't think it was Plan B, sorry HN

He went off for a toilet break. and I think it was to regain his thoughts.
I think he just mentally dipped in terms of intensity.

If you watch the video of his presser he says it was physical .. not mental.
Novak lose it mentally enough to get a breadstick in the middle of a GS
O No Red sorry dont buy it

I think it was physical. There were two events;

1. At 3-3 in the first set he stumbled badly and instantly the match changed. Up to then he was very impressive, then he wasn't. It was only when Rafa got nervous at 3-2 2nd set that he roused.

2. At the start of the 3rd set he still looked good for game 1 but suddenly became hopeless and lacked any intensity. It's harder to know how long this persisted because at 4-0 he dumped the set.

The first incident was reminiscent of Federers problems after falling against Simon, though n his case the effect was even more extreme, going from stomping to being stomped.

Hard to say...was it a plan to mentally unseat Nadal? Well it would be a very risky and bizarre one! He did tank the set though which must have made Nadal look ahead to the finish line. Lol...maybe as Federer quipped the other day there were further match instructions placed in the toilet cistern!

Seriously, he just seemed to lose intensity and its not like we haven't seen this before in 2013. Losing it bizarrely versus Berdych and Dimitrov. Actually another one is being 3-0 up in the 3rd vs Delpo at IW and still losing. It speaks to a lack of focus at pressure of going on to win. We don't know just how hard Djokovic has to mentally focus to get his body to do the incredible things he puts it through all the time. Just one mental slip appears to bring his physical level down markedly. Nadal doesnt tend to suffer from this. I'll stick my neck out and state he's starting to show little signs of burn-out. Just little ones...the question is whether he can overcome them or whether they get bigger.

I'll stick my neck out and say, possum. Djokovic's reputation preceeds him. Remember USO11, when he was writhing in pain and then magically recovred to cane Nadal 6-1? I think he tanked the third set, to get going for the forth, credit to him it worked. But I dont believe there was an injury at work, or at least one worse than the daily bumps and niggles all pros go through.

Oh absolutely kingraf. I do think there is merit in assertions Djokovic likes to make opponents feel he is struggling at times to unsettle their mental groove. I remember a bizarre match vs Tsonga around 2009ish on HC when he was walking around like he'd been shot only to come through the match to the bemusement of all watching. Anyone remember it?

I agree and its a well known fact that Novak is a great actor.. I dont like saying it of any player but the third set was a ploy to distract Rafa that never paid off. He went for broke and Rafa called his bluff. He played too well for the remainder of the match for it to be physical.. Fine line between being a cynic and a realist Novak fans blame it on the fact I have had too many years in the world of Education

Again, I'm going to propose a simple answer.

He needed the toilet.

I don't think it was playing possum. Players have physical highs and lows in long matches, and Novak (along with Murray) is a player who doesn't try to hide it when he's in a physical dip. That's what happened in my view, and as players often do he recovered from it.

Have none of you guys played a long football match or taken part in long distance running events? I have, and quite often I would get my 'second wind' towards the latter stages, after feeling like I was running on fumes earlier on.

I remember the US open final last year, and in the third set Murray was moaning to his corner that his legs felt 'like jelly'. Yet he was the one who had enough left in the tank to win. I don't see this as any different.

I second the notion of second wind. Novak hasn't been at his best and he had a physical and mental dip. It isn't the same as an injury or as faking anything. When he really needed to he raised his level again and he could and we have seen him go through the gears before. His history of several years ago, where he dropped his body language and struggled sometimes mentally, indicates to me that he isn't naturally as mentally and emotionally tough as he seems in slams now or as Rafa is. He has managed to make himself raise to that level of toughness and that must take constant effort so it is not surprising that under pressure and with other things affecting him emotionally, he occasionally drooped his level of fortitude. That he raised it back up again for sets 4 and 5 is impressive

Nole often acts like he is tired just to confuse the enemy. Plenty of players do similar things. But I am sure he did not decide to lose an entire set as a part of a master plan.

I think he was very nervous yesterday. He raised the stakes too much. The match was always going to be big, but he was advertising how this was the main goal of this season for him. That just added to the pressure. He played his best tennis when it looked like he was out of it - the second half of the second set when a break down, the tail end of the fourth set.

Hawkeye, go back and study the footage more closely. Make sure to freeze frame three sections.

Firstly, what is he concealing in his left hand as he walks off the court (and why isn't it there when he comes back)?

Secondly, what about the glance and nod and little smile to his box as he comes back on court? What is that all about?

Thirdly, who is the mysterious character in a black jacket and sunglasses that stands to wait for him to go off the court, and then seems to follow him. It's clearly not one of the officials as the way he is dressed is different, so who is it?

I also heard there was talk in the locker room about a strange machine seen in there. I've only seen that on forums but it sounds genuine by the way they talk about it. And if you look at Tsonga and Jim Courier's twitter accounts they both tweeted about the strange man with the black jacket and the machine.

I was also following the match on Betfair at this point and there were some bizarre fluctuations in the odds at the point where he was off court, the Nasdaq stock exchange actually dropped 1% during the match (look it up) and David Cameron was caught by a paperazzi through the fence of the Bilderberg conference taking a call on his mobile phone at that moment.

While I can't offer any evidence to back it up, I personally also just know that this is inextricably linked to area 51, the faked moon landings, Michael Jackson and the well-known hoax of global warming.

^ Ha ha!

Henman Bill wrote:Hawkeye, go back and study the footage more closely. Make sure to freeze frame three sections.

Firstly, what is he concealing in his left hand as he walks off the court (and why isn't it there when he comes back)?

Secondly, what about the glance and nod and little smile to his box as he comes back on court? What is that all about?

Thirdly, who is the mysterious character in a black jacket and sunglasses that stands to wait for him to go off the court, and then seems to follow him. It's clearly not one of the officials as the way he is dressed is different, so who is it?

I also heard there was talk in the locker room about a strange machine seen in there. I've only seen that on forums but it sounds genuine by the way they talk about it. And if you look at Tsonga and Jim Courier's twitter accounts they both tweeted about the strange man with the black jacket and the machine.

I was also following the match on Betfair at this point and there were some bizarre fluctuations in the odds at the point where he was off court, the Nasdaq stock exchange actually dropped 1% during the match (look it up) and David Cameron was caught by a paperazzi through the fence of the Bilderberg conference taking a call on his mobile phone at that moment.

While I can't offer any evidence to back it up, I personally also just know that this is inextricably linked to area 51, the faked moon landings, Michael Jackson and the well-known hoax of global warming.

Can I have the link please HB

Unlike Nadal, Novak played on and regained his focus. He didn't, you know, call for a trainer when the opponent was about to win the set or break.

_homogenised_ wrote:Unlike Nadal, Novak played on and regained his focus. He didn't, you know, call for a trainer when the opponent was about to win the set or break.

How many times since 2011 (ie when djokovic became really good), did Nadal call an MTO while playing him?

They've played 12 times btw since then.
6 in 2011 which Djokovic won, but 4-2 to Nadal after that.

God this forum is getting irksome... every single thread. Lets have another go at Rafa .... Im outta here

Haddie-nuff wrote:God this forum is getting irksome... every single thread. Lets have another go at Rafa .... Im outta here

It's good comedy value though.

Haddie-nuff wrote:Ill stick my neck out and say it was plan B

Hang on, aren't you the guy who goes mad when someone suggests Nadal isn't being honest? What is wrong with you? (to quote Roddick)

Haddie, you called Djokovic as faker. Double standards.

bogbrush wrote:Haddie, you called Djokovic as faker. Double standards.

Every single thread... dont give me a homily BB.. There have been a few times and just recently when you have brought his integrity into question .. dont talk to me about double standards..

Oh God please everyone stop, the whole forum is just a slagging match right now about Rafa or Novak

Haddie-nuff wrote:There have been a few times and just recently when you have brought his integrity into question

But what is wrong with bringing integrity of players into question? Clearly that should be fine. The double standard comes in when someone (a) on one hand, complain when posters question one player's integrity, yet (b) on the hand, question another player's integrity themselves.

It's always this way after a big match between any of the top 4.

I agree about 2nd winds but would be surprised to hear marathon man Djokovic needed one after 2 relatively standard sets at 1 hr 40 mins into the match?

summerblues wrote:

Haddie-nuff wrote:There have been a few times and just recently when you have brought his integrity into question

But what is wrong with bringing integrity of players into question? Clearly that should be fine. The double standard comes in when someone (a) on one hand, complain when posters question one player's integrity, yet (b) on the hand, question another player's integrity themselves.

Thats fine ... but confine it to one topic not every topic.. the certain poster is introducing his criticisms of Nadal on every thread.. not just this one.
I never wrote this article I merely passed my opinion on it.
Nowhere else on the forum have I been speaking of Djokovic.. THATS THE DIFFERENCE.
I dont mind being pulled up by someone who is in defence of Novak who hasnt questioned his integrity themselves either.. so the whole blidddddy thread is rife with double standards as I see it.

Anyway as I said Ill leave you with it ..have a party

Haddie-nuff wrote:Thats fine ... but confine it to one topic not every topic.. the certain poster is introducing his criticisms of Nadal on every thread..

Fair enough.

summerblues wrote:

Haddie-nuff wrote:There have been a few times and just recently when you have brought his integrity into question

But what is wrong with bringing integrity of players into question? Clearly that should be fine. The double standard comes in when someone (a) on one hand, complain when posters question one player's integrity, yet (b) on the hand, question another player's integrity themselves.

Thanks, saved me a post.

Edit: Haddie, you just don't get it. I don't question anyone's right to criticise a player. I do it myself. No double standard there.

You do criticise those you call integrity into question, and then you do it yourself.

Double standard.

Haddie-nuff wrote:

Henman Bill wrote:Hawkeye, go back and study the footage more closely. Make sure to freeze frame three sections.

Firstly, what is he concealing in his left hand as he walks off the court (and why isn't it there when he comes back)?

Secondly, what about the glance and nod and little smile to his box as he comes back on court? What is that all about?

Thirdly, who is the mysterious character in a black jacket and sunglasses that stands to wait for him to go off the court, and then seems to follow him. It's clearly not one of the officials as the way he is dressed is different, so who is it?

I also heard there was talk in the locker room about a strange machine seen in there. I've only seen that on forums but it sounds genuine by the way they talk about it. And if you look at Tsonga and Jim Courier's twitter accounts they both tweeted about the strange man with the black jacket and the machine.

I was also following the match on Betfair at this point and there were some bizarre fluctuations in the odds at the point where he was off court, the Nasdaq stock exchange actually dropped 1% during the match (look it up) and David Cameron was caught by a paperazzi through the fence of the Bilderberg conference taking a call on his mobile phone at that moment.

While I can't offer any evidence to back it up, I personally also just know that this is inextricably linked to area 51, the faked moon landings, Michael Jackson and the well-known hoax of global warming.

Can I have the link please HB

This is very suspicious but all the relevant links have just been taken down. No-one knows where I live or my real name, right? I will be keeping a low profile for the rest of the day.

Look at the title of this article is it a question or isn´t it
Did I answer it or didn´t I ..I did as to what I honestly thought.
Did it mention Nadal ?
Was the article intended to bring Rafa´s integrity into question or Novak´s
No matter what thread has been started on here since yesterday it comes back to criticisms of Nadal.
You bring Rafa´s integrity into question whenever it suits you. i.e. his cheating time wasting whatever. I have not defended that have I
You have brought Djokovic´s integrity into question also

i.e.http://sports.yahoo.com/tennis/blog/busted_racquet/post/This-is-the-fitness-pod-that-helped-Novak-Djokov?urn=ten-wp2719

I never entered into that discussion because I have no proof
I have stated my opinion on what I witnessed with my own eyes yesterday and I will repeat it.. I dont care.. I do believe he faked. I will stand by that opinion. Yes Rafa got time penalties yesterday... he broke the rules. Why am I being accused of defending his integrity about any other matter when its yesterday´s match we are discussing. But a certain poster takes every opportunity on every thread to denegrade a great champion. So BB if that still makes me in the wrong in your eyes.. then you know what ....!!!!!

Seriously everyone the forum has gone downhill in the last 24 hours after a polite rest of the tournament. It might be good to stop criticising players, stop writing articles about Nadal or Djokovic, or just take a few days off if you're in a bad mood. Anyway I'm shutting down the computer as soon as I see this message displayed and going out for the day so might not read any reply to this.

Henman Bill wrote:Seriously everyone the forum has gone downhill in the last 24 hours after a polite rest of the tournament. It might be good to stop criticising players, stop writing articles about Nadal or Djokovic, or just take a few days off if you're in a bad mood. Anyway I'm shutting down the computer as soon as I see this message displayed and going out for the day so might not read any reply to this.

Can I come with you HB

HM Murdoch wrote:Again, I'm going to propose a simple answer.

He needed the toilet.

A player takes a toilet break because he needs the toilet? Be serious HM, this is professional tennis we're talking about.

falzy21 wrote:Oh God please everyone stop, the whole forum is just a slagging match right now about Rafa or Novak

Just shows how tennis has moved forward. It used to be the whole forum was just a slagging match about Rafa or Fed

lydian wrote:It's always this way after a big match between any of the top 4.

I agree about 2nd winds but would be surprised to hear marathon man Djokovic needed one after 2 relatively standard sets at 1 hr 40 mins into the match?

It's not always the physical intensity that can drain an athlete though is it. As I said earlier, Murray was complaining about his legs feeling like jelly in the third set of the final in New York. That was the most important match of his life and that can have a huge impact.

Yesterday was Novak's most important match of the year as RG was his primary target, something he has openly admitted. That is probably why he had a period of running out of gas.

JuliusHMarx wrote:

falzy21 wrote:Oh God please everyone stop, the whole forum is just a slagging match right now about Rafa or Novak

Just shows how tennis has moved forward. It used to be the whole forum was just a slagging match about Rafa or Fed

IIRC - Correctly even after Nadal threw up vs Fish, people were still wondering wether he really needed the bathroom break... I think fans would prefer players releasing their fluids on court, to prove authenticity

JuliusHMarx wrote:
Just shows how tennis has moved forward. It used to be the whole forum was just a slagging match about Rafa or Fed

I haven't seen that though- the Djokovic fans on here (Socal, HM, and Slasher) are all excellent posters who get on really well with the Nadal fans.
I don't really see any slanging match between Nadal and Djokovic.

Novak did a POSSUM on Murray at the 2012 Ozzie open final.

3rd set looked like he would throw the towel in.

4th set incineration of Murray.

5th set continuous huffing and puffing but pulled out incredible winners and lasted 12 games of gruelling tennis.

I'd stick my neck out and say, mental gamesmanship, but seriously, nothing wrong with that in my book if the other fella falls for it.

Haddie-nuff wrote:Look at the title of this article is it a question or isn´t it
Did I answer it or didn´t I ..I did as to what I honestly thought.
Did it mention Nadal ?
Was the article intended to bring Rafa´s integrity into question or Novak´s
No matter what thread has been started on here since yesterday it comes back to criticisms of Nadal.
You bring Rafa´s integrity into question whenever it suits you. i.e. his cheating time wasting whatever. I have not defended that have I
You have brought Djokovic´s integrity into question also

i.e.http://sports.yahoo.com/tennis/blog/busted_racquet/post/This-is-the-fitness-pod-that-helped-Novak-Djokov?urn=ten-wp2719

I never entered into that discussion because I have no proof
I have stated my opinion on what I witnessed with my own eyes yesterday and I will repeat it.. I dont care.. I do believe he faked. I will stand by that opinion. Yes Rafa got time penalties yesterday... he broke the rules. Why am I being accused of defending his integrity about any other matter when its yesterday´s match we are discussing. But a certain poster takes every opportunity on every thread to denegrade a great champion. So BB if that still makes me in the wrong in your eyes.. then you know what ....!!!!!

I think it's great that you have an opinion, and express it. It's good, carry on.

I don't like that you complain about other posters - in this case the fairly vigorous homogenisation - doing the same about Rafa.

I don't expect you to get the point though, you'll carry on protesting you have a right to an opinion, as if anyone has said otherwise.

On this thread I have ever right to complain about homegenisation.. this thread was not about RAFA .. therefore my vigorous defence of him was not out of order here!!!! Its the same with any article posters support their argument by criticising Nadal and turn it into a fan fight..THIS THREAD I WILL REPEAT IS ABOUT NOVAK.I expressed my opinion of Novak and I didnt come on this thread to speak of Rafa. Im sure that is clear enough for anyone to understand .. you so more particularly BB

Take me up on this argument on another thread if I do so and I will listen.

Injured or playing possum? Only Nole knows. But I would advise any player who plays him in the future to ignore him if he looks like a dying swan. In fact they should prepare their defenses as the dying swan look could well be a sign that he is about to play some of his best tennis...

I think that the idea Djokovic tanked the third set just to play mind games is not really believable at all.

Depends what we mean by 3rd set. If he gets to 3-0 down with a double break and thinks this set is over...it's more plausible. I don't tend to believe he'd tank though, he usually rather appears dead on his feet but the winners keep coming.

Yes, he could have conceivably tanked the tail end of the se once he knew he was not winning it. He also quite possibly acted to look tired - he does it quite a lot.

But to suggest he planned to lose that set meekly all along just to trick Rafa is silly. What was Rafa expected to do? Fall asleep and not wake up until Saturday ignoring whatever improved play Novak was going to throw at him?

How can you afford to tank any part of a set in the FO against the King of Clay it makes no sense. Im sorry I dont buy it and neither did Rafa

HN, are you actually serious?

Surely you can afford to tank a set that is all but gone far more than you can afford to choose to lose a set on purpose?