The Enigma that is Jo-Wilfried Tsonga

Ever since that classy Aus 08' first round defeat of Murray, I've been a bit of a fan. What Tennis addict couldn't be? He has a varied power game and can play most shots very well. He then reached the final and we anticipated more Novak / Jo Slam finals, rather than Murray ones

Over the years my patience has run thin and I've rarely gone along with the optimism about Jo we get on these boards

And the SF vindicated this, I don't think I've seen such a sloppy display from a man with such skills.

We have to face it - nothing is going to happen with Jo's career. He hasn't got the mentally to play very well 90% of the time for the last three rounds of a Slam

For me, the issue is he's far too excitable and hence (mentally) spends too much time admiring his previous shot and then is ill-prepared for the next one. The (boring) saying 'take one point at a time' is an alien concept to our Jo!!

This means, when he's playing the top players his chances of victory are nearly always dependent on how they play. Isn't this the case for all players, I here you ask? Yes it is - but not those with the talent Tsonga has

No. My anger at watching Jo's pathetic showing wasn't that it was an isolated event, but a series - resulting in just one Masters victory

I was dissapointed with the semi too, but Ferrer played a clever game. He made it a battle of the backhands which Jo struggled with the whole match, he barely got his forehand in. Ferrer returned well too. I still love watching the guy, but not everyone can be mental giants.

I wasn't surprised by the way that semi panned out though. Ferrer has the game to beat lesser ranked players readily but is hopeless against higher ranked players. I give Ferrer even less of a chance in the final than if Tsonga had got there due to Ferrer lacking the weapons and having far too many battle scars against Nadal.

What nails it for me is that Jo's in danger of achieving less than grinning Greg did.

Astonishing!!

falzy21 wrote:I still love watching the guy, but not everyone can be mental giants.

We're not asking him to be a 'mental giant' - for me that's a category with Nadal and maybe Nole, even Roger has often played in a flaky manner

I would have thought that it wouldn't be too much to ask that he concentrates for longer than a 20-minute spell

Yesterday, he created some great 2nd set opportunities as Ferrer started making errors (a lot of them forced by Jo) and then gave them back in such a lame manner, we now realise why Simon has achieved nearly as much with half the talent

I don't think I've been as annoyed with a player in that 2nd set, in a long time, as I was with Tsonga

I think Tsonga feeds off a crowd and momentum, its no coincidence his only Masters is Paris, I dont think he would have been in a clay court semi-final at a slam if it wasn't in France. At Wimbledon, momentum of winning the 3rd set and the player he was playing plus the crowd being well involved back in 2011 really carried him through. Aus 08 that crowd was absolutely stunned and he went all out because he was the underdog, playing Ferrer was probably a shock suddenly his all or nothing shots actually meant something as he was almost 'supposed" to win.

He made a telling comment in his presser, "there were so many empty seats it was a very strange situation for me."

I think he came out flat, he hasn't really got a style to beat a top player on auto-pilot, he is all or nothing really, always has been.

Its incredible how someone can have so much power also has so much feel, he really does have it all. I sometimes wonder if that is almost a hinderance almost. He doesn't know what to go with at the start of a match. I used to feel the same of Murray, when he plays Nadal he tries to match him physically, when what he is best at is incredible touch and feel, he's just an awesome player than can do both.

Nadal, Djokovic and Federer you know what you are going to get with them every time almost. You adjust to them, not the other way around.

Well Banbro, people think Ferrer is weapon less and no show man, but this guy knows how to win, he doesn't make errors, a typical Rafa type player, and he do force opponents to make mistakes.

To beat Ferrer one need to have exception skill , power , talent, focus and belief, anything less Ferrer will run through you. Like you mentioned Tsonga might have the skill and power but neither focus nor belief to out gun the opponent.

Ferrer will beat Tsonga 9 out of 10 times and it could even be 10 out of 10 in clay.

I don't understand though, surely Fed takes away your timing and makes you less comfortable than anything Ferrer does so wtf was up with Tsonga.

break_in_the_fifth wrote:I don't understand though, surely Fed takes away your timing and makes you less comfortable than anything Ferrer does so wtf was up with Tsonga.

Come on Fed didn't turn up for French Open, the result was clearly seen on Simon's match itself, everybody who saw Fed on Simon's match knew writing on the wall for Fed if Tsonga would turn up, Fed is taking the game so casually, he is neither fit nor match fit to take big names, he thinks at this point of time his skill alone will do the work which certainly not the case.

I am pretty bleak on Fed's Wimbledon prospect as well, he needs to take the game back seriously like he did in 2011 end - 2012 Olympics and work hard in Gym and courts to get himself into contention, like many pointed out he is completely out of shape, but all understandable considering his age and desire to win.

This is not the case with Ferrer, he has achieved very little and still trying his best to achieve something big, and Tsonga met the wrong guy in the semi's.

Didn't see the Simon match. I saw the Tsonga match though and Fed looked ok. Very quick rallies and points. Fed should have tried mixing it up and slowing it down but his backhand was working. Sure his movement may have been off but Tsonga was timing much faster balls than I'd expect Ferrer to be hitting. Assuming Tsonga could do slightly more running and his one or two more shots each point he should have taken Ferrer no problem.

break_in_the_fifth wrote:Didn't see the Simon match. I saw the Tsonga match though and Fed looked ok.

May be this is the first time you saw Fed then , I am not saying Fed was injured, but Fed clearly looked out of power, no stamina, no control, to sum it up easy he was completely out of match fitness, he has to blame himself for the defeat, unless and until he works hard to get back which is gonna be very difficult given his age these kinda results will be more frequent from here on.

Eventhough Tsonga played good, Fed did really make it so easy for Tsonga, which raised false hope among French fans that he could do a little title run here.

Fed was playing what looked to me in general like WTA tennis with a little bit of his former brilliance here and there. He was just bashing the ball, not so badly but Tsonga was better at the time so he should have tried slicing and mixing it up. He could have at least got a set if he'd done that.

Out of power- yeah Tsonga was more powerful
no stamina- I'm not sure how we can judge this
no control- due to the speed they were playing at

The pics Lydian showed did kind of show he's out of shape. I think even I look better than the recent ones (though still no where near as fit) so I'd agree with you that I think he's fragile physically but I'm not sure that showed in the Tsonga match.

I think anyone who can beat Federer in straight sets can surely do better than just a mere 10 games from Ferrer

If it was a lucky qualifier or an up and coming youngster, we could understand the vast trough after the Federer game

Federer playing bad is still good enough to get to Slam quarters, i.e. he is still a scalp

Indeed banbro and I would have been more pleased for Tsonga than disappointed for Fed if he'd actually managed to keep that level going and reach the final. I wouldn't have expected him to win the final especially against Nadal but making it should have been well within his capability.

break_in_the_fifth wrote:Fed was playing what looked to me in general like WTA tennis with a little bit of his former brilliance here and there. He was just bashing the ball, not so badly but Tsonga was better at the time so he should have tried slicing and mixing it up. He could have at least got a set if he'd done that.

Out of power- yeah Tsonga was more powerful
no stamina- I'm not sure how we can judge this
no control- due to the speed they were playing at

The pics Lydian showed did kind of show he's out of shape. I think even I look better than the recent ones (though still no where near as fit) so I'd agree with you that I think he's fragile physically but I'm not sure that showed in the Tsonga match.

Seriously bro Fed's matches are not the actual parameter these days, you say in 2003-2009 [barring 2008 where he gave so many free wins] it was very difficult to beat him, so any win during that time gives a lot of confidence to the winner, but now any wins over Fed giving false confidence.

banbrotam wrote:I think anyone who can beat Federer in straight sets can surely do better than just a mere 10 games from Ferrer

If it was a lucky qualifier or an up and coming youngster, we could understand the vast trough after the Federer game

Federer playing bad is still good enough to get to Slam quarters, i.e. he is still a scalp

Yup agree with you he is a big scalp even if he is playing shiit, and thats why false alarm rung that he will have it easy againt Ferrer, Tsonga certainly has in him to beat Ferrer but like you said he is more than satisfied with one big scalp rather than dreaming very big, this is one of the reason I liked Del Potro he always dreams to become the GOAT [which could sound like a joke] and thats what keeps him winning difficult situations.

Tsonga unless change his attitude not gonna win the title anytime and the clock is ticking he is already 28/29.

For Tsonga's sake had he had Ferrer in quarter and Fed in semi's then there was a chance for him making finals, but that didn't happen.

Federer looks so human these days, he was quite mythical back in the day. His demeanour is more fidgety, he hits shots now and again are quite frankly diabolical, either half way up the net or out of the tramlines from simple positions. He has taken his eye off the ball for sure, he doesn't win matches just by turning up anymore he has to work harder.

The only time he reminded me of the hold Federer was his semi against Novak at Wimbledon, he was stone faced, virtually unbreakable and intimidating

Its like the guy you see in the press conferences is the guy you see on the court, a man. Nadal and Federer to me had this incredible ability to transform into something else when the stepped onto the court. They were like playstation games

Tsonga has a slightly fragile, nervy side to him and we have seen him implode on a few occasions. I can't see a 3 set loss as a tank or choke, but more an ability to lose faith in his game.

He knew Ferrer may well be a more solid wall than Federer and was expecting a hard match, but he started really badly, wasn't really mentally focused from the 1st point and never really recovered. Ferrer smelt the fear and imposed himself, Tsonga did respond in the 2nd set, but it wasn't enough of a response to cause David any trouble.

I'd say Jo is now on a rocky road. I wouldn't write him off, but he is his own worst enemy, and only Jo can sort this out, but like people have said his time is running out.

He's almost the same as Monfils...flashy, showy, rides waves of emotion but ultimately brittle.

His performance yesterday was nothing short of shocking and actually didn't do Ferrer any favours in terms of a tough match. Rafa's step up in ability will hit him like a sledgehammer tomorrow.

lydian wrote:His performance yesterday was nothing short of shocking

It's that what astounded me the most. I mean there was just nothing - he genuinely looked like a little boy lost. I expected a defeat - but an honourable one, i.e. like Fed and Murray last year - where they made loads of unforced errors, but at least went down firing having given there all

I just don't think Jo has it. Never mind everyone worrying about Noel, Jo's the one who could now implode

Agreed ban'. Also, if Ferrer gets mauled tomorrow (which is probably unlikely but possible) he may wish he hadn't got that far either. It's been a very interesting RG this year in many respects.