Sky Sports' Lions Test XV

This is the team that the Sky Sports panel picked this morning. What do people think of it?

Vunipola
Hibbard
Jones
Gray
O'Connell
Croft
Waurburton (c)
Faleteau
Philips
Sexton
North
Roberts
O'Driscoll
Cuthbert
Halfpenny

Rate this team out of 5

3/5 - Don't think any of that backrow will start. I think POC may be handed captaincy while Cuthbert is not a dead certainty

As it stands thats what I think Gatland would pick. Obviously it could be different but I'd expect that right now.

I think the 6 and 8 spots are still up for grabs otherwise this is spot on.

Maitland may pip Cuthbert too.

I found it quite strange how when discussing this team they kept mentioning the poor lineouts but then didn't even mention Parling as a second row! I presume he led the lineout on saturday, where according to stats we won 100% of our own lineouts and stole 5 of the reds lineouts?

Also surprised they think Roberts and O'Driscoll are so nailed on to start as to me Tuilagi and O'Driscoll has seemed to be our best centre combination thus far!

Generally pretty happy with this side, even though there are a fair few 50/50 decisions I may have made differently.

I gave the team 4/5. I think that backrow is missing a bit I must say.
Right now Warbs for me is not starting. He has to prove that he should be on Saturday but until then (if) he would not be starting in my books.

I would go with
6- O'Brien
7- Tipuric
8- Heaslip

I also think Cole is closer to Jones than many believe, he is really positive at ruck time, seriously aggressive.

Meflanker wrote:I found it quite strange how when discussing this team they kept mentioning the poor lineouts but then didn't even mention Parling as a second row! I presume he led the lineout on saturday, where according to stats we won 100% of our own lineouts and stole 5 of the reds lineouts?

Also surprised they think Roberts and O'Driscoll are so nailed on to start as to me Tuilagi and O'Driscoll has seemed to be our best centre combination thus far!

Generally pretty happy with this side, even though there are a fair few 50/50 decisions I may have made differently.

To be honest I have not been impressed by either Roberts or Tuilagi. I suspect the Sky team, like me, think the team was largely picked prior to the tour starting. For this reason I expect Lydiate to play even though he does not deserve it.

It's obviously going to be something like that.
I would go with Pete's back row, myself, but it isn't going to happen.

If that is the XV, presumably the bench will have Cole, O'Brien, B Youngs, Farrell, Hogg and possibly Corbisiero, Parling and Tuilagi or Maitland.

BTW that team would be 1 Scotsman, 1 Englishman, 3 Irishmen and 10 Welsh

Now I don't mind particularly I'll still be in Brisbane roaring them on but it just seems peculiar. Gatland spoke about how he "think it's important that there's a view of impartiality". He went onto say "Part of the problem in 2001 - and I think it would be Graham's criticism of 2001 - was there were probably too many Welsh players selected.".

He seems to be suggesting before the tour that whether the are the best individuals or not it was about picking the right team and ensuring no rifts or divisions by ensuring it was seen to be even handed.

There has never in my memory been a test side with 10 players from 1 nation on the test side.

Should this type of thing be taken into account. Is it important to be seen to be fair? Should positive discrimination take place?

For example is it easier to just give the 50-50 call between Heaslip and Falatau to Heaslip? Or Dan Cole to sneak in at tighthead etc.

3/5 Don't agree with any of the backrow selections I would have O'Brien, Tipuric and Heaslip.

Who knows what Gatland is thinking...

...but taking the Sky XV, I'd say...

Vunipola
Hibbard
Jones
Gray
O'Connell
Croft O'Brien
Waurburton (c) - there due to armband... but I'd have Tipuric
Faleteau Heaslip
Philips
Sexton
North
Roberts
O'Driscoll
Cuthbert - Not had an impressive tour, but he finishes trys (what a winger has to do) which makes him hard to drop.
Halfpenny


Tempted to put North in Centre instead of Roberts and Hogg/Halfpenny at Wing/FB (either in either pos)... be a bit of a punt..

Not sure about Roberts at 12 being a certainty - I would start ben youngs with sexton but see the argument for Phillips

Were they choosing the team they would like for the 1st test, or the one they believe will be selected?

Certainly, right now, that feels very much like the XV I expect them to announce for the 1st test. They may well go for another 6 and I am sure they would like to involve AWJ in some way, but other than that people will need to have a real stinker on Saturday to play their way out of the line-up.

"I would start ben youngs" - I guess it does depend on how they are going to approach the game, but I'd be quite pleased with that, too. If he's on the bench, I hope he gets on reasonably early.

red_stag wrote:BTW that team would be 1 Scotsman, 1 Englishman, 3 Irishmen and 10 Welsh

Now I don't mind particularly I'll still be in Brisbane roaring them on but it just seems peculiar. Gatland spoke about how he "think it's important that there's a view of impartiality". He went onto say "Part of the problem in 2001 - and I think it would be Graham's criticism of 2001 - was there were probably too many Welsh players selected.".

He seems to be suggesting before the tour that whether the are the best individuals or not it was about picking the right team and ensuring no rifts or divisions by ensuring it was seen to be even handed.

There has never in my memory been a test side with 10 players from 1 nation on the test side.

Should this type of thing be taken into account. Is it important to be seen to be fair? Should positive discrimination take place?

For example is it easier to just give the 50-50 call between Heaslip and Falatau to Heaslip? Or Dan Cole to sneak in at tighthead etc.

Never believed in Positive Discimination, not in politics, not in the work place, and definitly not in a Lions side. Best man for the job.. simples.

If that meant it would be 15 English and no others, so be it... I may be unhappy about it, but as long as it was the best being put forward, then I would accept it.

So if it means 1 Scotsman, 1 Englishman, 3 Irishmen and 10 Welsh, as long as that is the best team, that's how it should be. I know it can be a matter of opinion on who is the best, but that is the coaches decision and I may have an opinion, but I back it.

Oh, and on the fact that there would be 1 Scotsman, 1 Englishman, 3 Irishmen and 10 Welsh... I disagree... There will be 15 Lions

Same team I would go for except.

6. Lydiate
7. Warburton
8. Heaslip

Faletau and Tipuric on bench.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:This is the team that the Sky Sports panel picked this morning. What do people think of it?

Vunipola
Hibbard
Jones
Gray
O'Connell
Croft
Waurburton (c)
Faleteau
Philips
Sexton
North
Roberts
O'Driscoll
Cuthbert
Halfpenny

Rate this team out of 5

Spot on except for Faletau shouldnt start ahead of Heaslip IMO and maybe Cole ahead of Jones. I also dont think Cuthbert has done enough yet. Zebo or Maitland may squeeze him out yet or Bowe may still recover.

And 2 Englishmen, as both Vunipola and Croft are English, and 9 Welshmen.

red_stag wrote:BTW that team would be 1 Scotsman, 1 Englishman, 3 Irishmen and 10 Welsh

Now I don't mind particularly I'll still be in Brisbane roaring them on but it just seems peculiar. Gatland spoke about how he "think it's important that there's a view of impartiality". He went onto say "Part of the problem in 2001 - and I think it would be Graham's criticism of 2001 - was there were probably too many Welsh players selected.".

He seems to be suggesting before the tour that whether the are the best individuals or not it was about picking the right team and ensuring no rifts or divisions by ensuring it was seen to be even handed.

There has never in my memory been a test side with 10 players from 1 nation on the test side.

Should this type of thing be taken into account. Is it important to be seen to be fair? Should positive discrimination take place?

For example is it easier to just give the 50-50 call between Heaslip and Falatau to Heaslip? Or Dan Cole to sneak in at tighthead etc.

2nd test, 1993. 11 Englishmen plus Popplewell, Gibbs, Evans & Hastings. They won too. 17 of the 30 man tour squad were English.

t1000advancedprototype wrote:Same team I would go for except.

6. Lydiate
7. Warburton
8. Heaslip

Faletau and Tipuric on bench.

O'Brien is a certainty for the 22 as he covers 6 and 7 I would say the chances of two backrows on the bench are very very slim as well.

To be honest I understand the Lions is about four nations coming together as one, but like people have said numerous times on here, once they get on the plane to Aus they are no longer English, Irish, Scots, or Welsh, they are now Lions and all one.

So when it comes to the test side, what does it matter what nation they play for, they are playing as lions. I think we would all rather see a lions team take that realistically look like the best possible side, rather than seeing 3/4 players from each nation take to the feild, although look like a side destine to take a thumping from the off.

If that's the side they think Gats will go for in the first test they may well be spot on. Personally I'd like Heaslip and O'Brien in the back row alongside Tipuric but with the strength in depth there we should have a strong 6-8 no matter what.

1.Vunipola 2.Hibbard 3.Jones 4.Gray 5.O'Connell 6.O'Brien 7.Tipuric 8.Heaslip
9.Youngs 10.Sexton 11.North 12.Roberts 13.O'Driscoll 14.Maitland 15.Halfpenny

That would be my ideal side at current.

Interesting that very few fans here would choose Warburton over Tipuric & I agree.
It was also obvious with the slightly embarrassed laughter that the Sky pundits felt that way to but Scott spoke up quickly & said 'Sam but Tipuric very close on his heels'
On form you would start Tipuric.

Also on games so far I would have Manu T with BOD in the centre & the Youngs brothers & Heaslip at 8 starting but I would be very surprised to see it happen.

I see Kearney should be back playing at the weekend I would like him to put in a performance & I would then have him at FB & move 1/2p on wing for Cuthbert.

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:I see Kearney should be back playing at the weekend I would like him to put in a performance & I would then have him at FB & move 1/2p on wing for Cuthbert.

If Kearney has a stormer than that could be an option.

rodders wrote:I think the 6 and 8 spots are still up for grabs otherwise this is spot on.

Maitland may pip Cuthbert too.

I think you are right.

I might also add that there are big benefits having Grant or Corbs starting at loosehead and vino coming in as an impact player.

If there was more time/games to prepare we could have seen a backline somelike this:

11 Zebo
12 North
13 BOD
14 Halfpenny
15 Kearney

But BOD won't play again until the first test, Kearney and Zebo just won't have the time/stage to stake a claim. It's a shame because I think this lineup has amazing potential.

maestegmafia wrote:

rodders wrote:I think the 6 and 8 spots are still up for grabs otherwise this is spot on.

Maitland may pip Cuthbert too.

I think you are right.

I might also add that there are big benefits having Grant or Corbs starting at loosehead and vino coming in as an impact player.

I thought Corbisiero looked very good in the scrum, but I think our dominance seemed to stall when Grant came on, not writing him off as he's just arrived, but so has Cobisiero.

Back row very weird, as has been pointed out above - seems to run contrary to form. Did Sky really pick a loose forward for the test who hasn't played a game yet?

O'Driscoll looked flat today - I hope that they rest him. Roberts didn't actually really help his cause today and may have left open the door for Manu.

Cannot decide whether I want Vunipola to start or to crash on as an impact sub. I'm thinking the latter at the moment. Hopefully Grant will get a full 80 at the weekend. I don't remember seeing Corbs much today but I'm sure he did fine. As for hooker, Hibbard's wonky darts have also left the door open for Best, I think.

Lots still to play for.

Mickado wrote:If there was more time/games to prepare we could have seen a backline somelike this:

11 Zebo
12 North
13 BOD
14 Halfpenny
15 Kearney

But BOD won't play again until the first test, Kearney and Zebo just won't have the time/stage to stake a claim. It's a shame because I think this lineup has amazing potential.

Would have been dodgy to play North as a centre against a top side with so little experience there, I think, I would also prefer Halfpenny at full back and Maitland on the wing. North's best impact is when he comes in from the wing, attacking inside, as a centre I think that element would be taken away somewhat, although he would do alright there, due to his size alone.

Hmm. The line-out has worked best with Parling running it and Youngs throwing, that too against the strongest team the Lions has faced so far by a distance. Hibbard threw wonkily today against a very average team, and IMO shouldn't start, but that's just my view.

The rest isn't too far off, I disagree with the backrow, but it will likely be picked (with maybe Lydiate instead of Croft at 6). I also quite liked the look of Tuilagi-O'Driscoll partnership, feel Roberts is solid but somewhat unspectacular. Other than that not too many complaints so my team would look something like:

Vunipola
Youngs
Jones
POC
Gray
O'Brien
Tipuric
Heaslip
Philips
Sexton
North
Tuilagi
O'Driscoll
Cuthbert
Halfpenny

with a bench of
Hibbard/Best, Corbs/Grant Cole Parling Warburton? Youngs Farrell Maitland?

My team is currently this:

Vunipola, Youngs, Jones, POC, Parling, Croft, Warburton, Heaslip, Phillips, Sexton, North, Tuilagi, BOD, Cuthbert, Halfpenny.

Warburton only there cause he's captain, otherwise it would be Tipuric.

I gave it 5 as it is close to what Gatland will pick, the Wales online selected a similar team except Heaslip at 8 and AWJ instead of Gray. I prefer the Wales online team.

4 * from me. I didn't hear the debate on the selection but for me the pack is picked to dominate set piece. Vunipola as the only LH left from the original touring party is selected by default. He has been pretty good anyway, surprisingly so at scrum time. Hibbard is the best bet as an all round hooker. Best possibly better scrumager, Youngs possibly better darts but Hibbard shades it. Jones, best scrumaging TH around.
At the lineout, the locks will win plenty of ball and that backrow are all quality options as well.
So for me that starting pack would look to dominate possesition but might be vulnerable if Australia secure quick ball from their own set piece and look to play in the wider chanels. Cole, Best, Tipuric, O'Brien and Heaslip are all better players if this is the way it pans out. I would not be surprised if these changes are made for the second test if Australia win the first. Having said that, I think Lydiate will start at 6 anyway.
As for the backs. They look good to me. I can see Maitland pipping Cuthbert to the 14 jersey however.

George Carlin wrote:Back row very weird, as has been pointed out above - seems to run contrary to form. Did Sky really pick a loose forward for the test who hasn't played a game yet?

O'Driscoll looked flat today - I hope that they rest him. Roberts didn't actually really help his cause today and may have left open the door for Manu.

Cannot decide whether I want Vunipola to start or to crash on as an impact sub. I'm thinking the latter at the moment. Hopefully Grant will get a full 80 at the weekend. I don't remember seeing Corbs much today but I'm sure he did fine. As for hooker, Hibbard's wonky darts have also left the door open for Best, I think.

Lots still to play for.

Not 100% but I thought Best missed two throws outright today, whereas Hibbard missed one (with another where nobody jumped). Regardless Best is in no way showing that he is completely over his Six Nations wobbles and if we were looking at more accurate darts, then I think we are looking at Youngs.

Cuthbert will be turned inside out by AUS. No point playing a guy who is guaranteed to score 1 try but let in 2. Its a bad decision if he plays... very obtuse.

I'd rather have someone whole is less attackingly potent but more solid defensively....especially when we have chaps like Folau, Beale, Genia and O'Connor in the AUS backline to face.

Point to note: This is the team the Sky panel wanted, not the one they predicted to be named by Gatland.

Interesting to see that so many people would select SOB-Heaslip-Tipuric

Isn't that 5 overthrown lineouts for Best in about 80 minutes of play now? Can't see how he'll get ahead of Youngs and Hibbard

Can't select Best, he has been really poor in the lineout

To be honest Best hasn't had a good tour and I think the staff's initial decision to choose Hartley seems like it was a good one at the time. From a rugby perspective at least.

Croft's selection is a joke

fa0019 wrote:To be honest Best hasn't had a good tour and I think the staff's initial decision to choose Hartley seems like it was a good one at the time. From a rugby perspective at least.

No it wasnt a good selection because Hartley is a liability and that proved to be the case. At least Best isnt going to get sent home.

I think there's a very good chance now that Corbisiero will start the first test. Rowntree loves him and it would ease any concerns about Vunipola's scrummaging, with him coming off the bench later on when it's not such a factor. Grant will probably start vs the Brumbies on Tuesday, so it's a question of whether Corbisiero or Vunipola starts this Saturday.

Would be harsh on Vunipola after putting in a big shift in the first three games, but I wouldn't be at all surprised.

Looseheaded wrote:Croft's selection is a joke

I agree, I don't see that he offers anything outside of the lineout which is hardly the role of a blindside. In what I've seen from him on this tour and for Leicester and England he spends huge amounts of time looking for space on the wing. His fans say he is really under rated with regard to tackles he makes, his contribution to rucks and carrying. Personally I don't buy it. He offers incredibly little anywhere outside of the lineout unless he is given enough space to build up speed and go on a run which is why hes always in the wide channels. His stats in the 6N are evidence of this. He won a lot of lineout ball for England but did precious little anywhere else. He would be my last pick at 6 right now.

Many posters want to leave out Croft. The reason the Sky team put him in was to give an extra option at the line out. Given how poor the line out was today this seems sensible. To be fair the proplems with the line out stem from Hibbard and Best but a third option would be useful.

Exiledinborders wrote:Many posters want to leave out Croft. The reason the Sky team put him in was to give an extra option at the line out. Given how poor the line out was today this seems sensible. To be fair the proplems with the line out stem from Hibbard and Best but a third option would be useful.

Heaslip if in the team would be a third option at the lineout.

GunsGerms wrote:

Exiledinborders wrote:Many posters want to leave out Croft. The reason the Sky team put him in was to give an extra option at the line out. Given how poor the line out was today this seems sensible. To be fair the proplems with the line out stem from Hibbard and Best but a third option would be useful.

Heaslip if in the team would be a third option at the lineout.

With Warbs a fourth

Lineouts are major worries for Lions teams. Lions teams don't have the luxury of building complex calls and we've been bested their in 01, 05 and 09. We need players who can offer genuine lineout options in the rear.... not just someone who puts their hand up like Warburton.

He did very well in 09 and I think Gatland likes him. It looks like Warburton, Croft and Heaslip will get a run on Saturday and that looks like a likely test trio...in terms of whom Gatland may choose... although I wouldn't necessarily agree with it.

Exiledinborders wrote:Many posters want to leave out Croft. The reason the Sky team put him in was to give an extra option at the line out. Given how poor the line out was today this seems sensible. To be fair the proplems with the line out stem from Hibbard and Best but a third option would be useful.

Heaslip is also a good lineout option and offers considerably more around the pitch

Odd choice of backrow by Sky. Doesn't seem to reflect performances so far.

I'd certainly go for

6. O'Brien
7. Tipuric
8. Heaslip

at the moment.