Sky Sports' Lions Test XV

First topic message reminder :

This is the team that the Sky Sports panel picked this morning. What do people think of it?

Vunipola
Hibbard
Jones
Gray
O'Connell
Croft
Waurburton (c)
Faleteau
Philips
Sexton
North
Roberts
O'Driscoll
Cuthbert
Halfpenny

Rate this team out of 5

GunsGerms wrote:

fa0019 wrote:To be honest Best hasn't had a good tour and I think the staff's initial decision to choose Hartley seems like it was a good one at the time. From a rugby perspective at least.

No it wasnt a good selection because Hartley is a liability and that proved to be the case. At least Best isnt going to get sent home.

He will never be sent home for punching. If he tried to punch someone he would hit the air way above their head.

I am not sad to see Hartley go home but on current form Best is a liability. Hibbard's line out work is better but not great. He is however the best of the options in the scrum and probably even with Youngs around the park but in different ways. Therefore, pretty even between Hibbard and Youngs. Hibbard will play of course because it is obvious that Gatland picked the side before they left home. So expect Warburton to play too.

As good a guess as any.

Sky seem to be at odds with most people here on the backrow. 6 is completely up for grabs, and 7 would be too, but for the fact that Gatland see's Warburton as his captain and therefore nailed on starter. Heaslip has been the far more impressive of the two 8's.

I think 12 and 13 and very much up for grabs too. I wouldn't see O'Driscoll as nailed on, although he would be my choice.

The tight 5 and back three are probably spot on. Cuthbert harmed his chances with the game against Reds, but may be selected despite that since his main rival for the jersey (and probable starter), Bowe, is injured.

The half backs were always going to be Phillips/Sexton.

Does Sky still have Stuart Barnes in its lineup??? total cretin. If he advised me to take a life saving pill, I'd take the very opposite given his opinions in the past.

fa0019 wrote:Does Sky still have Stuart Barnes in its lineup??? total cretin. If he advised me to take a life saving pill, I'd take the very opposite given his opinions in the past.

I like Stuart Barnes. He does seem quite pro Ireland and Irish players which helps.

Feckless Rogue wrote:As good a guess as any.

Sky seem to be at odds with most people here on the backrow. 6 is completely up for grabs, and 7 would be too, but for the fact that Gatland see's Warburton as his captain and therefore nailed on starter. Heaslip has been the far more impressive of the two 8's.

I think 12 and 13 and very much up for grabs too. I wouldn't see O'Driscoll as nailed on, although he would be my choice.

The tight 5 and back three are probably spot on. Cuthbert harmed his chances with the game against Reds, but may be selected despite that since his main rival for the jersey (and probable starter), Bowe, is injured.

The half backs were always going to be Phillips/Sexton.

I think O'Driscoll is nailed on, particularly if the word that he isn't going to play again until the first test is true. The only other centre combination thats really been looked at is Tuilagi and Davies and it didn't work. They both have poor distribution. Davies passing has been seen as his weakness for quite some time and Tuilagi has also been heavily criticised in the past for poor distribution, particularly looking for contact when the better option is to pass. It says a lot that Tuilagi was being praised for putting in a couple of decent passes when he played with O'Driscoll when really any centre should be able to put basic passes together. I think if you look at all the centres and centre combinations available O'Driscoll is a shoe in at 13 and I have no doubt that provided there are no injuries Gatland will start with Roberts and O'Driscoll in the first test.

Feckless Rogue wrote:Heaslip has been the far more impressive of the two 8's.

Really? I think its been extremely tight especially when you see that Heaslip has started against Western Force and Combined Country.

Falatau had the Barbarians and Reds (and probably Waratahs).

To me this is one of toughest battles for the starting Test position but I'd expect Falatau to start the 1st Test. I'd be surprised to see Heaslip start at this moment in time.

red_stag wrote:

Feckless Rogue wrote:Heaslip has been the far more impressive of the two 8's.

Really? I think its been extremely tight especially when you see that Heaslip has started against Western Force and Combined Country.

Falatau had the Barbarians and Reds (and probably Waratahs).

To me this is one of toughest battles for the starting Test position but I'd expect Falatau to start the 1st Test. I'd be surprised to see Heaslip start at this moment in time.

Faletau looked very poor today, one promising attack in particular in the opposition 22 he threw a terrible pass which was followed by a Stevens knock on to end the move and give up possession. But aside from that I don't think Faletau has really performed thus far and hasn't done much in the way of staking a claim for the 8 shirt. Heaslip is ahead of him for me.

GunsGerms wrote:

fa0019 wrote:Does Sky still have Stuart Barnes in its lineup??? total cretin. If he advised me to take a life saving pill, I'd take the very opposite given his opinions in the past.

I like Stuart Barnes. He does seem quite pro Ireland and Irish players which helps.

I think he hates any team which Rob Andrew still has some affiliation to. Don't blame him mind.

At the end of half time today Barnes said Gatland would go with Welsh power and Irish invention in the test team, fair comment?

As I say Artful I think its much of a muchness. Don't especially care either way.

Heaslips big advantage IMO is the lineout. If we are looking at Croft starting at 6 then it isn't such a big deal but if you have Lydiate or O'Brien or Tipuric partnering Warbs then it gives Heaslip another weapon.

Roberts & O'Driscoll for defence... Tuilagi & O'Driscoll for attack. Depends which one is more important to the coaches.

Artful_Dodger wrote:

Feckless Rogue wrote:As good a guess as any.

Sky seem to be at odds with most people here on the backrow. 6 is completely up for grabs, and 7 would be too, but for the fact that Gatland see's Warburton as his captain and therefore nailed on starter. Heaslip has been the far more impressive of the two 8's.

I think 12 and 13 and very much up for grabs too. I wouldn't see O'Driscoll as nailed on, although he would be my choice.

The tight 5 and back three are probably spot on. Cuthbert harmed his chances with the game against Reds, but may be selected despite that since his main rival for the jersey (and probable starter), Bowe, is injured.

The half backs were always going to be Phillips/Sexton.

I think O'Driscoll is nailed on, particularly if the word that he isn't going to play again until the first test is true. The only other centre combination thats really been looked at is Tuilagi and Davies and it didn't work. They both have poor distribution. Davies passing has been seen as his weakness for quite some time and Tuilagi has also been heavily criticised in the past for poor distribution, particularly looking for contact when the better option is to pass. It says a lot that Tuilagi was being praised for putting in a couple of decent passes when he played with O'Driscoll when really any centre should be able to put basic passes together. I think if you look at all the centres and centre combinations available O'Driscoll is a shoe in at 13 and I have no doubt that provided there are no injuries Gatland will start with Roberts and O'Driscoll in the first test.

Holding on to this for when Earls at centre comes up on those Irish threads. weh weh weh

Artful_Dodger wrote:At the end of half time today Barnes said Gatland would go with Welsh power and Irish invention in the test team, fair comment?

Until Healy and Jenkins got injured I was certain we would see a 1st Test Team with no Englishman

Healy, Hibbard, Jones
Gray, O'Connell
Lydiate, Heaslip, Warburton
Phillips, Sexton
Roberts, O'Driscoll
North, Halfpenny, Bowe

Artful_Dodger wrote:
I think O'Driscoll is nailed on, particularly if the word that he isn't going to play again until the first test is true. The only other centre combination thats really been looked at is Tuilagi and Davies and it didn't work. They both have poor distribution. Davies passing has been seen as his weakness for quite some time and Tuilagi has also been heavily criticised in the past for poor distribution, particularly looking for contact when the better option is to pass. It says a lot that Tuilagi was being praised for putting in a couple of decent passes when he played with O'Driscoll when really any centre should be able to put basic passes together. I think if you look at all the centres and centre combinations available O'Driscoll is a shoe in at 13 and I have no doubt that provided there are no injuries Gatland will start with Roberts and O'Driscoll in the first test.

Firstly, they were only on for 20 minutes and they were doing OK. Secondly, Roberts and Davies got a start together against Barbarians, so it's not the only other combination that's been tried.

Tuilagi's passing is a hell of a lot better than people give him credit for and he can offload well. Often when people have criticised him for not passing he'd have just been shunting it down the line to another England player who's no better positioned and is worse in contact. When he's part of a functioning backline his distribution is perfectly fine.

I'd also expect Roberts and O'Driscoll to start together, but only because it's been tried and tested four years ago. On form Tuilagi would be in there.

Sky Sports' Lions Test XV

Is an error.

In the OP, bluestone was inadvertently reporting CBeebies and the selection panel comprised the real Tellytubbies.

Easy mistake...

red_stag wrote:

Artful_Dodger wrote:At the end of half time today Barnes said Gatland would go with Welsh power and Irish invention in the test team, fair comment?

Until Healy and Jenkins got injured I was certain we would see a 1st Test Team with no Englishman

Healy, Hibbard, Jones
Gray, O'Connell
Lydiate, Heaslip, Warburton
Phillips, Sexton
Roberts, O'Driscoll
North, Halfpenny, Bowe

Amazing that given they're comfortably the highest ranked of the 4. Not unrealistic although Lydiate at 6 was always going to be a "dream team" selection... great on paper... simply not fit enough in reality to be considered... at least you'd hope anyhow.

I can't work out whether Croft's non-selection today is bad for him, or a sign that he'll be selected for what will be close to the Test XV on Saturday.

greytiger wrote:

Sky Sports' Lions Test XV

Is an error.

In the OP, bluestone was inadvertently reporting CBeebies and the selection panel comprised the real Tellytubbies.

Easy mistake...

Sorry Grey, why am I mentioned there??!

fa0019 wrote:

red_stag wrote:

Artful_Dodger wrote:At the end of half time today Barnes said Gatland would go with Welsh power and Irish invention in the test team, fair comment?

Until Healy and Jenkins got injured I was certain we would see a 1st Test Team with no Englishman

Healy, Hibbard, Jones
Gray, O'Connell
Lydiate, Heaslip, Warburton
Phillips, Sexton
Roberts, O'Driscoll
North, Halfpenny, Bowe

Amazing that given they're comfortably the highest ranked of the 4. Not unrealistic although Lydiate at 6 was always going to be a "dream team" selection... great on paper... simply not fit enough in reality to be considered... at least you'd hope anyhow.

I know its very strange isn't it. For what its worth BTW Lydiate for me is the one player who was not deserving of a place on this tour. Still annoys me that he got in ahead of people like Kelly Brown and Chris Robshaw. Still here's there now so he could feature.

fa0019 wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

fa0019 wrote:Does Sky still have Stuart Barnes in its lineup??? total cretin. If he advised me to take a life saving pill, I'd take the very opposite given his opinions in the past.

I like Stuart Barnes. He does seem quite pro Ireland and Irish players which helps.

I think he hates any team which Rob Andrew still has some affiliation to. Don't blame him mind.

Not sure that is the case. However, from an administration perspective Rob Andrew doesnt seem to have done much good for English rugby.

I think the RFU really needs some fresh thinking. Correct me if Im wrong but arent all the top administrators ex rugby players? Bill Beaumont, Paul Murphy and Rob andrew are all ex players. This may not always be a bad thing but perhaps some outside influences and ideas might help to shake the organisation up a bit.

red_stag wrote:

fa0019 wrote:

red_stag wrote:

Artful_Dodger wrote:At the end of half time today Barnes said Gatland would go with Welsh power and Irish invention in the test team, fair comment?

Until Healy and Jenkins got injured I was certain we would see a 1st Test Team with no Englishman

Healy, Hibbard, Jones
Gray, O'Connell
Lydiate, Heaslip, Warburton
Phillips, Sexton
Roberts, O'Driscoll
North, Halfpenny, Bowe

Amazing that given they're comfortably the highest ranked of the 4. Not unrealistic although Lydiate at 6 was always going to be a "dream team" selection... great on paper... simply not fit enough in reality to be considered... at least you'd hope anyhow.

I know its very strange isn't it. For what its worth BTW Lydiate for me is the one player who was not deserving of a place on this tour. Still annoys me that he got in ahead of people like Kelly Brown and Chris Robshaw. Still here's there now so he could feature.

I agree but I think its odd if he doesn't feature in the tests... as if so then why bother? Looks a bit slower, a big bigger and not as lethal as before. SH rugby is a step up in intensity to NH rugby.. the pace is huge and the intensity likewise. Can't have guys unfit or off the pace..... why I also think that Warburton (esp. against a paceman like Hooper) is also a worry.

Artful_Dodger wrote:At the end of half time today Barnes said Gatland would go with Welsh power and Irish invention in the test team, fair comment?

He also wrote a whole article in the Sunday Times last Sunday based around this prediction.

GunsGerms wrote:

fa0019 wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

fa0019 wrote:Does Sky still have Stuart Barnes in its lineup??? total cretin. If he advised me to take a life saving pill, I'd take the very opposite given his opinions in the past.

I like Stuart Barnes. He does seem quite pro Ireland and Irish players which helps.

I think he hates any team which Rob Andrew still has some affiliation to. Don't blame him mind.

Not sure that is the case. However, from an administration perspective Rob Andrew doesnt seem to have done much good for English rugby.

I think the RFU really needs some fresh thinking. Correct me if Im wrong but arent all the top administrators ex rugby players? Bill Beaumont, Paul Murphy and Rob andrew are all ex players. This may not always be a bad thing but perhaps some outside influences and ideas might help to shake the organisation up a bit.

Not sure Guns.... does the admin side have an impact on the pitch bar who the coach is and isn’t??? Whats wrong with the admin?

Barnes must have a seat named after him given he sat on one near every game for 10 years at Twickenham. Can’t remember much about his career mind bar some old Bath lads continually mentioning some drop goal.

I thought (apart from the one blip referred to) Faletau did very well when he came on today. He cleaned up a number of messes very effectively. I would still start Heaslip in the test, personally, though.

red_stag wrote:

Feckless Rogue wrote:Heaslip has been the far more impressive of the two 8's.

Really? I think its been extremely tight especially when you see that Heaslip has started against Western Force and Combined Country.

Falatau had the Barbarians and Reds (and probably Waratahs).

To me this is one of toughest battles for the starting Test position but I'd expect Falatau to start the 1st Test. I'd be surprised to see Heaslip start at this moment in time.

Well that's a fair point that Heaslip has played against two very poor teams. Definitely has to be taken into account. But I think Faletau has not been on top form. He's made planty of mistakes, not stamped his presence on games. He has displayed a really nice passing/offloading skill at times. While Heaslip seems to have brought his great late season Leinster form with him on tour. I won't even get into my views on the dynamics of the Leinster boys playing for Deccie's Ireland compared to playing in a more positive environment. But I believe Heaslip is a better shout. More leadership, more experience, better so far at ball carrying, better lineout option. Very capable at the breakdown. He's also a capped Lion who performed really well 4 years ago.

http://www1.skysports.com/watch/video/8770801/who-will-face-australia?

GunsGerms wrote:

fa0019 wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

fa0019 wrote:Does Sky still have Stuart Barnes in its lineup??? total cretin. If he advised me to take a life saving pill, I'd take the very opposite given his opinions in the past.

I like Stuart Barnes. He does seem quite pro Ireland and Irish players which helps.

I think he hates any team which Rob Andrew still has some affiliation to. Don't blame him mind.

Not sure that is the case. However, from an administration perspective Rob Andrew doesnt seem to have done much good for English rugby.

I think the RFU really needs some fresh thinking. Correct me if Im wrong but arent all the top administrators ex rugby players? Bill Beaumont, Paul Murphy and Rob andrew are all ex players. This may not always be a bad thing but perhaps some outside influences and ideas might help to shake the organisation up a bit.

The Chief Executive, Ian Ritchie, is an outsider who ran Wimbledon for many years.

Youngs T for hibbard. Hooker

No think Warburton should start but think he will( because Gatland) made him captain. Tipuric would be my choice.

Phillips? Not sure. Close call with him and Youngs B

Heaslip would start.

Not sure about Bod and Roberts for the Centres.

Halfpenny at full back.

Second row would be for me POC and Parling.

Not sure about the rest of the team either to be honest.

majesticimperialman wrote:Youngs T for hibbard. Hooker

No think Warburton should start but think he will( because Gatland) made him captain. Tipuric would be my choice.

Phillips? Not sure. Close call with him and Youngs B

Heaslip would start.

Not sure about Bod and Roberts for the Centres.

Halfpenny at full back.

Second row would be for me POC and Parling.

Not sure about the rest of the team either to be honest.

It would have been quicker just to write that you would rather English players were piked than Irish, Scottish or Welsh.

maestegmafia wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:Youngs T for hibbard. Hooker

No think Warburton should start but think he will( because Gatland) made him captain. Tipuric would be my choice.

Phillips? Not sure. Close call with him and Youngs B

Heaslip would start.

Not sure about Bod and Roberts for the Centres.

Halfpenny at full back.

Second row would be for me POC and Parling.

Not sure about the rest of the team either to be honest.

It would have been quicker just to write that you would rather English players were piked than Irish, Scottish or Welsh.

maestegmafia.

I was not picking ( ENGLISH PLAYER/S) Over any other country.

I am not Bias or Racist for that matter.

I was picking the player/s that i thought was the best player/s for the 1st test. ok.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:I gave the team 4/5. I think that backrow is missing a bit I must say.
Right now Warbs for me is not starting. He has to prove that he should be on Saturday but until then (if) he would not be starting in my books.

I would go with
6- O'Brien
7- Tipuric
8- Heaslip

I also think Cole is closer to Jones than many believe, he is really positive at ruck time, seriously aggressive.

Me too. Tipuric is playing very well atm, but gatland will prob go for croft, healsip and warburton with o'brien as sub as he can cover all 3 positions...

Piking English players? unfortunate slip of the fingers there

Meflanker wrote:I found it quite strange how when discussing this team they kept mentioning the poor lineouts but then didn't even mention Parling as a second row! I presume he led the lineout on saturday, where according to stats we won 100% of our own lineouts and stole 5 of the reds lineouts?

Also surprised they think Roberts and O'Driscoll are so nailed on to start as to me Tuilagi and O'Driscoll has seemed to be our best centre combination thus far!

Generally pretty happy with this side, even though there are a fair few 50/50 decisions I may have made differently.

Agree roberts hasn't looked great. I see tuilagi as a significantly BIGGER threat than roberts, but gatland has his soft spots and may go for a safe roberts/bod combo.