How to beat Novak Djokovic

I think that the above is the question.

Who can stop Djokovic? That performance was immense. His footwork was nothing short of perfect and his backhand just destroyed the Nadal forehand. The second serve was strong. This man seems to have a mix of everything at the moment and it is only time before he is world no.1.

The rest of the field. The gauntlet is layed before you. No-one can out hit him or out last him. Fantastic. A privilege to see someone just gate crash the party and how.

That backhand was beyond epic tonight, what a shot! Nadal kept trying to go there but he found no joy. To come back from blowing a double break lead in the first set took, well it took balls.

It did socal. That first set he showed he was made of iron and the mentality with the crowd also on his back. It was packed full of guts and amazing shots to be frank. A lot of the Rafa fans are saying he was below par which is utter rubbish. Djokovic had his foot on his throat and didn't let go. Nadal looked panicked on his serve.

Another thing. Did the court seem a lot slower than it was at the start of the week? I thought it played slower today or is it me?

Legendkillar, I think quite frankly the two best defenders in the game and two best returners in the game made the court look slower. Two things won the match for Nole, the massive backhand and his ability to attack nadal on the second serve. He hit some returns off the line today that you couldn't have placed better if you had remote control on the ball. The backhand and the return where the keys.

Very true socal. At the moment Djokovic has the best backhand on the tour and is the best returner too. Like I say this just feels the beginning of something special for Djokovic. He hung on in long rallies and just put winner after winner away and it was amazing. Even with Nadal playing that ridiculous shot at the start of the 2nd set, he broke right back and he just looked ice cold. He didn't seem to show any sign of tiredness.

Beating Djokovic is simple.

Pick apart the forehand. It's noway near as good as his forehand. Once you do that, he'll take more risks with his backhand.

Anyone game enough to do it?

Well legendkillar, for this rivalry to be truely epic Novak has to beat Nadal in a grandslam. Right now three straight wins is great, and I think he can certainly do it. But to beat Rafa in a grandslam will remove any doubt about the level he has reached and will elevate this rivalry into one for the ages.

I shall look on Rome with great interest. Going into Roland Garros it just be Nadal and Djokovic that people will be talking about. Will be the rivalry of the year.

I would love to see someone attack the socalled weak Djokovic forehand. He can hit bombs off of that wing with regularity, it is easily won of the 10 or 15 best forehands on tour. I would say top ten.

Legendkillar, I think both guys or one of the two may lose early in Rome. I mean for godsake they have already started the first round, way to go on the scheduling ATP!

They will be in action on Tuesday I think. The ATP are poor on scheduling at times. It is the same on the North America hard court season too.

socal1976 wrote:I would love to see someone attack the socalled weak Djokovic forehand. He can hit bombs off of that wing with regularity, it is easily won of the 10 or 15 best forehands on tour. I would say top ten.

He misses more of his forehand than his backhand. Even when he's not 100% his backhand is secure, whilst his forehand can go spraygun.

legendkillar wrote:They will be in action on Tuesday I think. The ATP are poor on scheduling at times. It is the same on the North America hard court season too.

You sure about that my friend?

In Madrid the top 4 played on Wednesday

sonic_boom10 wrote:

legendkillar wrote:They will be in action on Tuesday I think. The ATP are poor on scheduling at times. It is the same on the North America hard court season too.

You sure about that my friend?

In Madrid the top 4 played on Wednesday

Hence why I said think.

legendkillar wrote:

sonic_boom10 wrote:

legendkillar wrote:They will be in action on Tuesday I think. The ATP are poor on scheduling at times. It is the same on the North America hard court season too.

You sure about that my friend?

In Madrid the top 4 played on Wednesday

Hence why I said think.

Sorry

Sonicboom, virtually every player on tour with a two handed backhand misses more off of their forehand and also hits more winners with their forehand. The two hander is very solid and rarely deserts you if you have a good one. Djokovic when he is off will usually miss with the forehand, but so does virtually every one else on tour. Even Rafa makes more errors with his forehand than his backhand, its just the nature of the two hander, if you got a good one its very reliable.

socal1976 wrote:Sonicboom, virtually every player on tour with a two handed backhand misses more off of their forehand and also hits more winners with their forehand. The two hander is very solid and rarely deserts you if you have a good one. Djokovic when he is off will usually miss with the forehand, but so does virtually every one else on tour. Even Rafa makes more errors with his forehand than his backhand, its just the nature of the two hander, if you got a good one its very reliable.

I suppose so, but I'd say(I'm guessing Nadal will end Djokovic's streakas they are playing most finals atm) that attacking the forehand is better than getting spanked by the backhand

Sonic boom, I think attacking the forehand per se, as in targeting it won't be effective unless early on in the match he is missing a lot of them. Like he was doing against Bellucci in the first set. But I agree with you that just going after the Djokovic backhand with high top spin shots isn't effective. Good two handers like the ball up in the zone. It is actually more effective to use short angled chips and dinks and to try to get a good two hander to move up in the court. The weakness of the two hander is that it is harder to hit the low ball or to hit that shot moving up into the court.

legendkillar wrote:I think that the above is the question.

Who can stop Djokovic? That performance was immense. His footwork was nothing short of perfect and his backhand just destroyed the Nadal forehand. The second serve was strong. This man seems to have a mix of everything at the moment and it is only time before he is world no.1.

The rest of the field. The gauntlet is layed before you. No-one can out hit him or out last him. Fantastic. A privilege to see someone just gate crash the party and how.

Nice to be with the like-minded folk....

I suggest everyone pays attention to the new service motion NOvak's started introducing on clay, esp when he is serving on T line: the swing is shorter and heavier, great stuff for grass, I hope he perfects it by then

Hey NITB,

I am more of a Murray fan than anything else, but I have warmed to Djokovic because it is just how he has turned his career around. No more lacks of concentration in matches and he has tightened up his game and his serve is so much more better and fluid and his backhand is just amazing. Watching him yesterday with a crowd that was so pro-Rafa and on his best surface he just crushed him. That in itself deserves so much credit. He was just focused and when his serve was broken, he didn't panic, didn't show any negative body language and then broke the Nadal serve. The self belief he has is amazing.

I just wish Andy would look at him and think hey if this guy can turn it around and become unplayable, then so could I.

socal1976 wrote:That backhand was beyond epic tonight, what a shot! Nadal kept trying to go there but he found no joy. To come back from blowing a double break lead in the first set took, well it took balls.

The fact that Novak was able to maintain his composure is testament to his new found confidence and mental fortitude. He is riding a wave of tremendous self-belief and believes that he can beat anyone in the game at the moment.

The difference with Novak is that he does not suffer from the same mental demons that Roger seems to suffer from whenever he plays Nadal. Novak respects Rafa for his amazing clay court game, but believes that he is beatable. That is something that Roger, despite his comments to the contrary, does not seem to believe. Novak does not suffer from the crisis of confidence that Roger suffers from whenever he is playing Nadal.

Rafa in his BBC post-match comments sums up the new and improved Djokovic well in this link:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/tennis/13330036.stm

I think that the true acid test as to how far Novak has come is how he fares in a Rome final against Nadal if he were to advance that far. It is virtually a given that Rafa will make the Rome final as he remains extremely formidable on clay. The conditions at Rome are closer to those at Roland Garros and we will see how Novak would fare against Nadal in these conditions should they meet.

I can hardly wait.

Kemet, it isn't so much a mental block that Fed has against Nadal. In sports there are certain matchups that are difficult for certain teams and players. Nadal's game is perfectly suited to defeat Federer. The one handed backhand doesn't handle heavy topspin well and nadal hits the ball with heavier spin than anyone. Plus being left handed allows him to match his cross court forehand against Fed's cross court backhand. It is also more difficult to hit the ball up the line with the one hander. Federer is a great attacker, Nadal is a great defender. Fed a great server, Nadal a great returner. Fed is righty, Nadal is lefty. Fed has a weaker backhand when it comes to the high heavy ball, and Nadal hits the ball heavier than anyone. In many ways if you wanted to create a difficult matchup and player that could beat Federer it would be Nadal.

With Novak he doesn't have that advantage because Novak's backhand is just too good to be exploited, and he in fact loves the high ball on his backhand and is among the best at the game at going up the line with the backhand. The up the line backhand by the righty is the crucial shot that you must have to be successful against Nadal.

Wow!
The day has arrived when a thread like this has been created.....Nole's really made it !

legendkillar wrote:Hey NITB,

I am more of a Murray fan than anything else, but I have warmed to Djokovic because it is just how he has turned his career around. No more lacks of concentration in matches and he has tightened up his game and his serve is so much more better and fluid and his backhand is just amazing. Watching him yesterday with a crowd that was so pro-Rafa and on his best surface he just crushed him. That in itself deserves so much credit. He was just focused and when his serve was broken, he didn't panic, didn't show any negative body language and then broke the Nadal serve. The self belief he has is amazing.

I just wish Andy would look at him and think hey if this guy can turn it around and become unplayable, then so could I.

Legend,

I'll be brutally honest here: when Murray had his breakthrough in 2009 (or 08, when he played his first slam final at USO), I thought he was going to let rip and take off big time: he was on fire. Then came that loss to Federer in AO final and he has never been the same since.
I don't know why, but I'm guessing he needs to mature a bit and get over himself a bit like Nole did after his post breakthrough slump.

Remember his cockiness? I loved it and still do, but as I said he wasn't mature and experienced enough to deal with it straight away which is why he had that relative slump in part of 09 and 10: Nole has never stopped being very hungry and having the desire, I don't know whether that's his make up (probably is), but that's the thing that's been driving him ALL the time, including now. This phenomenal run is just a jigsaw with all the bits finally in: it would be nowhere without Novak's desire and hunger, though.

Murray went through the same except that he is a bit different, not so openly cocky, but inwardly probably a bit of a clever-dick, knowing best, thinking he could beat anybody, a bit of an inward world of immense proportions. So when he crashed he bore it all inwardly, and only he knows what damage has been done there.
Novak's re-rise has probably made him think and inspired him to buckle down and just get on with it. It's still not late for a "new" start (mentally) if you are hungry enough.

Murray does need to work on a few aspects of his game, but at the very top level it all comes fro inside your heart and belly.

Yes, Nitb it is wonderful to finally see Novak fulfill his great potential and to thrill us his fans. It took a long time for him to gain the knowledge and experience necessary to put this run together. But when you think about all the things he has turned around in the last 5 months. His losing streaks against Fed, Nadal, and Murray. His grandslam drought, and if things go well and he stays healthy he will soon realize his dream of becoming #1.

Socal, see my last post on ATP Rome thread (I copied and pasted someone's comment from another thread) his numero uno dream is closer than I thought....

noleisthebest wrote:Socal, see my last post on ATP Rome thread (I copied and pasted someone's comment from another thread) his numero uno dream is closer than I thought....

BUT IT'S WRONG!!!! WRONG I SAY! Even Captain Jean Luc-Picard thinks it's wrong!

I have corrected you, o misguided one, on the relevant thread.

Hey NITB,

Murray actually slumped IMO in 2009. In the Grand Slams he went out to players who had big forehands and went after him and it was frustrating as I felt he would kick on from his US Open final in 2008. He went into the AO 2010 as favourite which was madness. I was surprised he made the final. He had gameplans against his opponents and they paid off. I think the top 3 know how to handle Murray and they go after him. Murray needs to do what he did before and just go after them and dictate.

Djokovic I never felt was cocky. When I saw him on court and his performance would dip, he would flap his hands and beat himself up and even look at his box. Almost like he was in direction and they were in the other. What speaks volumes of Djokovic was his reaction after defeating Nadal on sunday. Went to his box and the celebration to me said I have beat the man on clay and now the real hard work is still ahead. It is that attitude which I find refreshing.

Legend,

Well, the world can't blame me for not trying to tell them all these years..... 8)

Nole is an utter gem in many ways...

Stealth Maestro Agro Love wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:Socal, see my last post on ATP Rome thread (I copied and pasted someone's comment from another thread) his numero uno dream is closer than I thought....

BUT IT'S WRONG!!!! WRONG I SAY! Even Captain Jean Luc-Picard thinks it's wrong!

I have corrected you, o misguided one, on the relevant thread.

I know Maestro, I know.....I hang my head in shame....