Lions Backrow Dilema. Its Tipuric or Croft for me...!

by maestegmafia Sat Jun 15, 2013 12:49 pm

First topic message reminder :

Today I thought Heaslip and Warburton earned two spots in the backrow, who will make the third.

For me we need a player who can do half what Croft does well in the open play, back support, lineout, and half what Lydiate does well in the tight with tackling and aggressive ball winning work around rucks expoliting the aussie attack and defence around the breakdown.

That man for me would be Warburton.

With Tipuric at openside we have a fetcher support player and in Warburton and Heaslip we have everything else we need in defence, attack and ball winning.

Great game in some aspects for Crofty, Warburton and Heaslip today...!

by bedfordwelsh Sat Jun 15, 2013 8:48 pm

Lets take it as read that Warburton will start at 7 so the debate is 6 and 8.

For me Heaslip and Croft are similar minded and both like to play a bit wider than some, after today I think Croft starts so for me the better compliment to him is Faletau.

by maestegmafia Sun Jun 16, 2013 2:08 am

bedfordwelsh wrote:Lets take it as read that Warburton will start at 7 so the debate is 6 and 8.

For me Heaslip and Croft are similar minded and both like to play a bit wider than some, after today I think Croft starts so for me the better compliment to him is Faletau.

Warburton might well start at six.

Best backrow would be tips Warburton and Heaslip.

by BigTrevsbigmac Sun Jun 16, 2013 8:10 am

maestegmafia wrote:
bedfordwelsh wrote:Lets take it as read that Warburton will start at 7 so the debate is 6 and 8.

For me Heaslip and Croft are similar minded and both like to play a bit wider than some, after today I think Croft starts so for me the better compliment to him is Faletau.

Warburton might well start at six.

Best backrow would be tips Warburton and Heaslip.

I am sur the commentator just before the start of the game said Warburton will only be considered at 7 ( or words to that effect) did anybody else hear that or was it just me?

Anyway, I firmly believe he will be picked to start at 7 (wrongly in my view), Croft will almost certainly start at 6
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/britishandirishlionsrugby/10122691/Lions-2013-Tom-Croft-seals-Test-spot-with-sterling-display.html

and I think Heaslip should & will start at 8 though I accept it is a close decision with Toby F & wouldn't be much of an issue for me if he starts.

The selection of the BR for the Brumbies suggests a Croft,Warburton,Heaslip start for the first test.

In fact the whole pack that played yesterday could start. I would have had Gray in for AWJ but Gray is carrying a knock & either Parling or AWJ wouldn't let the side down.

by maestegmafia Sun Jun 16, 2013 8:51 am

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:
bedfordwelsh wrote:Lets take it as read that Warburton will start at 7 so the debate is 6 and 8.

For me Heaslip and Croft are similar minded and both like to play a bit wider than some, after today I think Croft starts so for me the better compliment to him is Faletau.

Warburton might well start at six.

Best backrow would be tips Warburton and Heaslip.

I am sur the commentator just before the start of the game said Warburton will only be considered at 7 ( or words to that effect) did anybody else hear that or was it just me?

Anyway, I firmly believe he will be picked to start at 7 (wrongly in my view), Croft will almost certainly start at 6
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/britishandirishlionsrugby/10122691/Lions-2013-Tom-Croft-seals-Test-spot-with-sterling-display.html

and I think Heaslip should & will start at 8 though I accept it is a close decision with Toby F & wouldn't be much of an issue for me if he starts.

The selection of the BR for the Brumbies suggests a Croft,Warburton,Heaslip start for the first test.

In fact the whole pack that played yesterday could start. I would have had Gray in for AWJ but Gray is carrying a knock & either Parling or AWJ wouldn't let the side down.

I didn't hear anything about Warburton being only considered as an openside on sky sports yesterday. But much of the time when Barnes and Harrison are talking I have to switch off to commentary, else they would enrage me with the absolute rubbish they invent.

I would be very disappointed not to see Tipuric included. He is a player who makes things happen a match winner. We are running out of those.

by **LondonTiger** Sun Jun 16, 2013 8:54 am

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:
I am sur the commentator just before the start of the game said Warburton will only be considered at 7 ( or words to that effect) did anybody else hear that or was it just me?

Yes that was said, and is something I have seen reported in the written press.

The selection of the BR for the Brumbies suggests a Croft,Warburton,Heaslip start for the first test.

In fact the whole pack that played yesterday could start. I would have had Gray in for AWJ but Gray is carrying a knock & either Parling or AWJ wouldn't let the side down.

Agree with both of these. also i would suggest that most of the forward on the bench are likely to be on the bench come Saturday.

by irnbrew Sun Jun 16, 2013 9:20 am

some disturbing stats for back row croft tackles 4 carries 7 Rucks HIT 12 Warby rucks hit 35 Lydiate tackles 3 carries 3 Rucks hit 10 seeing people was saying on here how well croft played they are not the stats of an international 6 .Score a try and all is forgiven or so it seems Australia will blow the Lions backrow away based on that if croft plays and Warby must be a worried man

by Scrumdown Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:42 am

6. Croft
7. Warburton
8. O'brien

break down nous, ball carriers, good defenders, lineout ability and pace.

by bedfordwelsh Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:47 am

Can't see SOB starting at N08 given he hasn't had a run out there on tour. I don't think Heaslip or Faletau have made the shirt their own and would be happy with either starting.

I think for me Faletau would compliment Croft and Warburton better but that's my opinion.

by maestegmafia Sun Jun 16, 2013 11:02 am

Croft worries me. We were watching the game again and he is missing far too often from the grunt work.

It is easy to exploit Crofts reluctance to get involved with two strong foragers. Wales exploited England at the breakdown in the six nations. Croft was lurking on the wing in defence and attack.

by **LondonTiger** Sun Jun 16, 2013 11:16 am

Perhaps, MM, rather than it being a reluctance it is the plan. You know have the man with pace defending wider? Which is why Croft actually secured more turnovers maybe.

In the ideal world we would have a player who can do what Lydiate and Croft can (no that is not SOB - honest). Instead we have either/or. Then the coaches have to decide whether they want what Croft brings or need what Lydiate does. If they want a defensive game, Croft is a luxury they cannot afford. If they want an expansive game Lydiate is a hindrance they cannot afford. If they want to drive it round the fringes, SOB is a must.

3 different players, 3 different styles, suit 3 different game plans.

by broadlandboy Sun Jun 16, 2013 11:23 am

MM,Do you think Australia will come through the forwards or backs? With their back line I ,IMHO, see their backs as the biggest threat so need someone with pace to assist in the defence. Contain them at the breakdown, hit them out wide.

by broadlandboy Sun Jun 16, 2013 11:29 am

Or if we are that short of wingers & we know Gatland likes big wingers play both with Croft playing where a lot seem to think he does play

by bedfordwelsh Sun Jun 16, 2013 12:20 pm

maestegmafia wrote:Croft worries me. We were watching the game again and he is missing far too often from the grunt work.

It is easy to exploit Crofts reluctance to get involved with two strong foragers. Wales exploited England at the breakdown in the six nations. Croft was lurking on the wing in defence and attack.

Croft has really changed my opinion of him and at the moment he gets my vote ahead of Lydiate, that said if it is Crfot that plays then I would pick Toby at 8.

If Heaslip gets the nod at No8 then I would go with Lydiate at 6 to do the grunt work.

by belovedfrosties Sun Jun 16, 2013 12:49 pm

irnbrew wrote:some disturbing stats for back row croft tackles 4 carries 7 Rucks HIT 12 Warby rucks hit 35 Lydiate tackles 3 carries 3 Rucks hit 10 seeing people was saying on here how well croft played they are not the stats of an international 6 .Score a try and all is forgiven or so it seems Australia will blow the Lions backrow away based on that if croft plays and Warby must be a worried man

Belovedfrosties:

where have you got those stats from? They don't match anything i have found anywhere, croft made 7 tackles 1 missed and 8 carries for 49m, only AWJ and Heaslip made more carries in the pack. LT said it best when we have 3 different 6s for 3 different game plans, Croft plays out wide because he is better there and offers more out wide than any other 6 does. He can secure ball when it goes wide and has the pace to cover in defence against backs and the strength to then compete for the ball, he made 2 turnovers doing this and if the Wallabies play wide, he will be a huge asset. His lineout work is better than any backrow player we have and as it's an area we are struggling in this is a big plus, he also steals opposition lineouts. People complain that he doesn't make as many tackles as Lydiate or whoever, but he does a lot more lineout work than them and only a few less tackles.

I think the front five will also go a long way in selecting the backrow. If we pick guys like POC, Youngs, AWJ Cole, Vunipola and Corbs, then we have plenty of tacklers, carriers and ruckers which will free us up to use some more athletic backrowers.

by belovedfrosties Sun Jun 16, 2013 12:50 pm

Also, how do we quote another poster without writing in the same box as them? I couldn't get out of it hence having to put a title for me, is there some sort of glitch, because i've done it before in this new format but couldn't this time.

by bedfordwelsh Sun Jun 16, 2013 12:57 pm

belovedfrosties wrote:Also, how do we quote another poster without writing in the same box as them? I couldn't get out of it hence having to put a title for me, is there some sort of glitch, because i've done it before in this new format but couldn't this time.

Yeah was thinking same myself

by wales606 Sun Jun 16, 2013 12:58 pm

belovedfrosties wrote:Also, how do we quote another poster without writing in the same box as them? I couldn't get out of it hence having to put a title for me, is there some sort of glitch, because i've done it before in this new format but couldn't this time.

Right hand button is switch editor mode

It returns it to text like normal

by belovedfrosties Sun Jun 16, 2013 1:07 pm

wales606 wrote:
belovedfrosties wrote:Also, how do we quote another poster without writing in the same box as them? I couldn't get out of it hence having to put a title for me, is there some sort of glitch, because i've done it before in this new format but couldn't this time.

Right hand button is switch editor mode

It returns it to text like normal

Ah, cheers Wales!

by The Saint Sun Jun 16, 2013 3:54 pm

So how do people actually rate Warbs performance against the Tahs then? Some of his criticism has been baffling, because those people were just watching the Lions to see how good/bad he played instead of supporting the team. I have to be honest I thought it was an okay performance, I'd rate him 7, just one above his previous game. He is getting through a lot of work as always but not smashing into the opposition in the tackle area or at the breakdown hard enough for me. Sam's form in 2011 was flawless, I hope he gets back up to that.

by belovedfrosties Sun Jun 16, 2013 4:01 pm

He isn't making anywhere near as many turnovers as he did previously but as you say, he is getting through a lot of work. The thing i noticed most was that the Lions ball was very clean and rarely slow, much of which i think was down to his work, shame Phillips was there to slow it down though Whistle

by The Saint Sun Jun 16, 2013 4:05 pm

Yeah, I didn't think Phillips was bad at anything at all, though I believe he is better suited to teams like SA and Youngs is better suited to Aus; but for that reason some people tend to start myths like Genia always outplays Phillips. Never happened.
My back-row would be: 6, Croft. 7, Tipuric. 8, Heaslip.

by belovedfrosties Sun Jun 16, 2013 4:38 pm

Youngs has had his best games in an England shirt against Australia, 2 of which were his first 2 caps and i reckon in the Lions shirt he will play out of his skin and when he does that, he gets the best of Genia.

by Comfort Tue Jun 18, 2013 12:46 pm

I can see it being 6.Warburton 7.Tipuric 8.Heaslip with SOB on the bench covering all 3 if needs be.

Gatland will go with a heavy set front 5 who will do the dirty work (say Corbs/Hibbard/Cole/POC/AWJ or Gray or Parling) and Phillips will play at 9.

It all sets it up for a backrow to get about and focus on winning the tackle area.

by maestegmafia Tue Jun 18, 2013 1:13 pm

The Aussie press are talking about using two sevens, might be good to do the same. Though I can see a defensive approach being taken.

Lydiate might get the call at the expense of croft.

by jelly Tue Jun 18, 2013 2:43 pm

With the way the lineout has been working, or not, I would think it is increasingly likely that Croft gets the nod to start.

Warburton will definitely start.

Think it will be Faletau but think Heaslip has got as good a shout so it will then be about balance in the team and I think Faletau fits in with the other two slightly better.

by **LondonTiger** Tue Jun 18, 2013 2:49 pm

Warburton will definitely start, and after today's performance it will be at 7.
Faletau having played all 80 minutes looks, to me, unlikely to feature - unless from the bench.
So that leaves 6. Looking at the various press, and not just the "English" press, it does seem as if Croft will start. It may be Lydiate though, depending on how they are looking to play the game.

by RubyGuby Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:46 pm

Corbs
Hibbard
Adam
POC
AWJ
Croft
Heaslip
Warburton

Cole and Youngs off the bench between the 50 and 60 minute mark. thumbsup

by fa0019 Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:47 pm

Croft, Warburton and Heaslip. Nice balance, good experienced players.

Warburton looked like a captain on saturday, I wouldn't say he played out of his skin but he will start thats undeniable.

Can't see Gatland going outside of a natural 6 & 7 combo.... if he had done so he should have tried it out prior to the first test.

by thomh Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:56 pm

maestegmafia wrote:The Aussie press are talking about using two sevens, might be good to do the same. Though I can see a defensive approach being taken.

Lydiate might get the call at the expense of croft.

The two sevens approach is very unlikely given that Tipuric played 80 today. Whatever Gatland says in public, he'll have had 90% of his test team decided already, with maybe a couple of marginal calls at loosehead and hooker to finalise, and fitness in the backs to check on. Even Rowntree said a couple of weeks ago that realistically they needed to know the test team by the time they played the Waratahs and definitely by the time they played the Brumbies, so anyone who played 80 today won't make it.

Croft against the Waratahs was the best performance at 6 of the tour, and with the lineout being the main concern so far I'd be stunned if he's not in the team, alongside Warburton and Heaslip.

by maestegmafia Tue Jun 18, 2013 7:15 pm

thomh wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:The Aussie press are talking about using two sevens, might be good to do the same. Though I can see a defensive approach being taken.

Lydiate might get the call at the expense of croft.

The two sevens approach is very unlikely given that Tipuric played 80 today. Whatever Gatland says in public, he'll have had 90% of his test team decided already, with maybe a couple of marginal calls at loosehead and hooker to finalise, and fitness in the backs to check on. Even Rowntree said a couple of weeks ago that realistically they needed to know the test team by the time they played the Waratahs and definitely by the time they played the Brumbies, so anyone who played 80 today won't make it.

Croft against the Waratahs was the best performance at 6 of the tour, and with the lineout being the main concern so far I'd be stunned if he's not in the team, alongside Warburton and Heaslip.

Sorry

What was so good about Crofts performance? he spent 80% 0f the game out on the wing doing bugger all.

by lostinwales Tue Jun 18, 2013 7:23 pm

maestegmafia wrote:
Sorry

What was so good about Crofts performance? he spent 80% 0f the game out on the wing doing bugger all.

Keep on repeating it and it will be true....

by HammerofThunor Tue Jun 18, 2013 7:28 pm

Maybe bluesmancometh can run the video through his computer program to confirm it (if he came back after being banned)

by maestegmafia Tue Jun 18, 2013 7:31 pm

lostinwales wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:
Sorry

What was so good about Crofts performance? he spent 80% 0f the game out on the wing doing bugger all.

Keep on repeating it and it will be true....

Its my opinion, if you disagree mate, then say what you thought he did so well?

by HammerofThunor Tue Jun 18, 2013 7:34 pm

Surely spending 80% of his time on the wing isn't an opinion. It's either true or not. Also he scored a try so it wasn't bugger all. Although bugger all back row work would be fine

by maestegmafia Tue Jun 18, 2013 7:39 pm

HammerofThunor wrote:Surely spending 80% of his time on the wing isn't an opinion. It's either true or not. Also he scored a try so it wasn't bugger all. Although bugger all back row work would be fine

There were three players lining up for that try, it was not created by Croft.

He won a penalty at the breakdown, other than that he didnt pull his weight.

by nathan Tue Jun 18, 2013 7:43 pm

Maes speaking negatively about an englishman.... shock horror!!

by HammerofThunor Tue Jun 18, 2013 7:46 pm

maestegmafia wrote:
HammerofThunor wrote:Surely spending 80% of his time on the wing isn't an opinion. It's either true or not. Also he scored a try so it wasn't bugger all. Although bugger all back row work would be fine

There were three players lining up for that try, it was not created by Croft.

He won a penalty at the breakdown, other than that he didnt pull his weight.

Just saying it wasn't bugger all.

Anyway if you're annoyed about him being on the wing blame the coaches. The idea that he leaves his set position and runs over to the wing on every game without comeuppance is laughable.

by maestegmafia Tue Jun 18, 2013 7:50 pm

HammerofThunor wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:
HammerofThunor wrote:Surely spending 80% of his time on the wing isn't an opinion. It's either true or not. Also he scored a try so it wasn't bugger all. Although bugger all back row work would be fine

There were three players lining up for that try, it was not created by Croft.

He won a penalty at the breakdown, other than that he didnt pull his weight.

Just saying it wasn't bugger all.

Anyway if you're annoyed about him being on the wing blame the coaches. The idea that he leaves his set position and runs over to the wing on every game without comeuppance is laughable.

In his post match interview, he said how he likes to stay out wide on the wing. I think it is him far more than the coaches. Hopefully they will have enough sense to pick a backrow with more graft than what Croft gives. Tipuric does what Croft does in attack but also wins turnovers, penalty's and tackles as well as any top backrow.

by HammerofThunor Tue Jun 18, 2013 7:54 pm

maestegmafia wrote:
HammerofThunor wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:
HammerofThunor wrote:Surely spending 80% of his time on the wing isn't an opinion. It's either true or not. Also he scored a try so it wasn't bugger all. Although bugger all back row work would be fine

There were three players lining up for that try, it was not created by Croft.

He won a penalty at the breakdown, other than that he didnt pull his weight.

Just saying it wasn't bugger all.

Anyway if you're annoyed about him being on the wing blame the coaches. The idea that he leaves his set position and runs over to the wing on every game without comeuppance is laughable.

In his post match interview, he said how he likes to stay out wide on the wing. I think it is him far more than the coaches. Hopefully they will have enough sense to pick a backrow with more graft than what Croft gives. Tipuric does what Croft does in attack but also wins turnovers, penalty's and tackles as well as any top backrow.

He can like whatever he likes but if he doesn't do what the coaches tell him he'd get dropped.

Also most players say they 'like' doing what the coaches generally tell them to do.

by maestegmafia Tue Jun 18, 2013 9:50 pm

HammerofThunor wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:
HammerofThunor wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:
HammerofThunor wrote:Surely spending 80% of his time on the wing isn't an opinion. It's either true or not. Also he scored a try so it wasn't bugger all. Although bugger all back row work would be fine

There were three players lining up for that try, it was not created by Croft.

He won a penalty at the breakdown, other than that he didnt pull his weight.

Just saying it wasn't bugger all.

Anyway if you're annoyed about him being on the wing blame the coaches. The idea that he leaves his set position and runs over to the wing on every game without comeuppance is laughable.

In his post match interview, he said how he likes to stay out wide on the wing. I think it is him far more than the coaches. Hopefully they will have enough sense to pick a backrow with more graft than what Croft gives. Tipuric does what Croft does in attack but also wins turnovers, penalty's and tackles as well as any top backrow.

He can like whatever he likes but if he doesn't do what the coaches tell him he'd get dropped.

Also most players say they 'like' doing what the coaches generally tell them to do.

Do you think that coaches tell all the backrowers to loiter on the wing?

Is that maybe the reason Croft might be considered a first choice by the coaches and others might not???

You do write some rubbish arguing your propose.

by **Ozzy3213** Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:03 pm

Maes

Do you really think that Gatland tells Croft to stay in midfield and Croft thinks 'nuts to that, I like it on the wing' and then just goes and stands out there? That is laughable.

Croft does often get into wide areas in attack, because that is where he is effective. To allow him to do so you have to pick a pack that can facilitate that. That is the coaches call as to whether he feels it is worth it for what Croft gives the team. Time will tell what Gatland's opinion is.

In defence, the notion that he just loiters on the wing is absolute tosh frankly.

As an aside, I watch the Waratahs game, and he did his fair share of carrying in midfield as well, and most neutral observers that I have seen comment appear to feel he was one of the Lions best performers on the day.

by belovedfrosties Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:07 pm

maestegmafia wrote:
HammerofThunor wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:
HammerofThunor wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:
HammerofThunor wrote:Surely spending 80% of his time on the wing isn't an opinion. It's either true or not. Also he scored a try so it wasn't bugger all. Although bugger all back row work would be fine

There were three players lining up for that try, it was not created by Croft.

He won a penalty at the breakdown, other than that he didnt pull his weight.

Just saying it wasn't bugger all.

Anyway if you're annoyed about him being on the wing blame the coaches. The idea that he leaves his set position and runs over to the wing on every game without comeuppance is laughable.

In his post match interview, he said how he likes to stay out wide on the wing. I think it is him far more than the coaches. Hopefully they will have enough sense to pick a backrow with more graft than what Croft gives. Tipuric does what Croft does in attack but also wins turnovers, penalty's and tackles as well as any top backrow.

He can like whatever he likes but if he doesn't do what the coaches tell him he'd get dropped.

Also most players say they 'like' doing what the coaches generally tell them to do.

Do you think that coaches tell all the backrowers to loiter on the wing?

Is that maybe the reason Croft might be considered a first choice by the coaches and others might not???

You do write some rubbish arguing your propose.

Croft is probably used out wide instead of other flankers because he's better out there, he is a lot faster than Tipuric (who is no slouch) and offers a similar level of physicality. The way i see it is that he offers support and a forward out wide in defence and attack, he has the pace to not be exposed and can attack the opposition backs on defence and secure our own rucks.

Croft is completely different to our other 6's and so is used in a different manner, is it really that hard a concept to grasp Maes?

by **Ozzy3213** Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:09 pm

frosties, it's not a difficult concept mate, and you have it spot on. Some people only see what they want to see though, and I suspect that the explanations given aroudn what Croft does and why are merely wasted keystrokes.

by HammerofThunor Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:25 pm

maestegmafia wrote:
HammerofThunor wrote:

He can like whatever he likes but if he doesn't do what the coaches tell him he'd get dropped.

Also most players say they 'like' doing what the coaches generally tell them to do.

Do you think that coaches tell all the backrowers to loiter on the wing?

Is that maybe the reason Croft might be considered a first choice by the coaches and others might not???

You do write some rubbish arguing your propose.

What are you talking about? Why would coaches want all their back row on the wing?

Tigers are the ones that started using Croft on the wing. It gives them confidence that if the ball goes wide there is someone that can keep up AND handle the ruck if needed AND cover counter attacks. It works very well for them. They use Mafi in the same way when Croft isn't available.

Maybe, just maybe, Gatland thinks the same. Either that or he's too weak not to select a back row player with little time back from injury, hangs out on the wing and does no work.

As valid as your opinion is, in my opinion it's complete rubbish

Edit: swear filter didn't pick something up

by lostinwales Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:54 pm

I havnt been watching the Lions so I cant comment on what is or isnt happening - just on what I read and what I have seen in the past. One of the big things about Croft is that he runs and runs and runs - and he is quick. That means he does tend to get everywhere.

All of the backrowers out with the Lions are good players. All of them have some areas at which they really excel - and just because they are good at one thing doesnt mean they are bad at everything else

by maestegmafia Tue Jun 25, 2013 7:17 pm

Well Tipuric, SOB, Faletau and Croft all had a run out today and there are potentially changes that need to be made to cope better with the fringe defence on Saturday.

We need more tacklers in the back row. Faletau and SIB had an outstanding game today and could well take Crofts spot at blindside for Saturday. Giving us more aggression around the fringes.

The other option would be moving Warburton to blindside and Tipuric, the form seven so far in the larger majority's opinion, to openside.

Tipuric and Warburton did a great job for Wales against Scotland with Joubert was referee. This could be a sensible move.

by Guest Tue Jun 25, 2013 7:24 pm

belovedfrosties wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:
HammerofThunor wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:
HammerofThunor wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:
HammerofThunor wrote:Surely spending 80% of his time on the wing isn't an opinion. It's either true or not. Also he scored a try so it wasn't bugger all. Although bugger all back row work would be fine

There were three players lining up for that try, it was not created by Croft.

He won a penalty at the breakdown, other than that he didnt pull his weight.

Just saying it wasn't bugger all.

Anyway if you're annoyed about him being on the wing blame the coaches. The idea that he leaves his set position and runs over to the wing on every game without comeuppance is laughable.

In his post match interview, he said how he likes to stay out wide on the wing. I think it is him far more than the coaches. Hopefully they will have enough sense to pick a backrow with more graft than what Croft gives. Tipuric does what Croft does in attack but also wins turnovers, penalty's and tackles as well as any top backrow.

He can like whatever he likes but if he doesn't do what the coaches tell him he'd get dropped.

Also most players say they 'like' doing what the coaches generally tell them to do.

Do you think that coaches tell all the backrowers to loiter on the wing?

Is that maybe the reason Croft might be considered a first choice by the coaches and others might not???

You do write some rubbish arguing your propose.

Croft is probably used out wide instead of other flankers because he's better out there, he is a lot faster than Tipuric (who is no slouch) and offers a similar level of physicality. The way i see it is that he offers support and a forward out wide in defence and attack, he has the pace to not be exposed and can attack the opposition backs on defence and secure our own rucks.

Croft is completely different to our other 6's and so is used in a different manner, is it really that hard a concept to grasp Maes?

Croft is NOT faster than Tipuric! And he's probably more physical than Tipuric. But the rest of what you say I can go along with.

by Cyril Tue Jun 25, 2013 7:34 pm

It's still Croft for me.

There's a danger of trying to 'contain' the Aussies without looking to the strengths of the Lions.

Griff, Tips is quick but Croft is faster surely. I really rate Tips though.

by Guest Tue Jun 25, 2013 7:41 pm

I haven't got the times to hand, but I'm sure that Tipuric is faster. Croft is fast for a 6 though, no doubt. Not Tipuric fast though!

by belovedfrosties Tue Jun 25, 2013 7:43 pm

Griff wrote:
belovedfrosties wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:
HammerofThunor wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:
HammerofThunor wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:
HammerofThunor wrote:Surely spending 80% of his time on the wing isn't an opinion. It's either true or not. Also he scored a try so it wasn't bugger all. Although bugger all back row work would be fine

There were three players lining up for that try, it was not created by Croft.

He won a penalty at the breakdown, other than that he didnt pull his weight.

Just saying it wasn't bugger all.

Anyway if you're annoyed about him being on the wing blame the coaches. The idea that he leaves his set position and runs over to the wing on every game without comeuppance is laughable.

In his post match interview, he said how he likes to stay out wide on the wing. I think it is him far more than the coaches. Hopefully they will have enough sense to pick a backrow with more graft than what Croft gives. Tipuric does what Croft does in attack but also wins turnovers, penalty's and tackles as well as any top backrow.

He can like whatever he likes but if he doesn't do what the coaches tell him he'd get dropped.

Also most players say they 'like' doing what the coaches generally tell them to do.

Do you think that coaches tell all the backrowers to loiter on the wing?

Is that maybe the reason Croft might be considered a first choice by the coaches and others might not???

You do write some rubbish arguing your propose.

Croft is probably used out wide instead of other flankers because he's better out there, he is a lot faster than Tipuric (who is no slouch) and offers a similar level of physicality. The way i see it is that he offers support and a forward out wide in defence and attack, he has the pace to not be exposed and can attack the opposition backs on defence and secure our own rucks.

Croft is completely different to our other 6's and so is used in a different manner, is it really that hard a concept to grasp Maes?

Croft is NOT faster than Tipuric! And he's probably more physical than Tipuric. But the rest of what you say I can go along with.

Hard to say really without them both running next to each other, I've seen Croft fly by plenty of people who are seriously quick and the try he scored against the Tahs was against the fastest player in their squad, not saying Tips is slow, just i don't think he's as fast as Croft. Though i've seen plenty more of the latter.

He also did loads of that work in the tight which he constantly gets criticised for not doing, made more tackles than Tips (in less time) and also made more tackles per minute than Lydiate did.

Lydiate - 15 tackles in 65 minutes
Tips - 5 in 25 minutes
Croft - 6 in 15 minutes

Think SOB may have played his way onto the bench today as well, harsh on tipuric who i thought was good when he came on.

by Sponsored content