Melbourne Rebels v British & Irish Lions, 25 June

by **George Carlin** Sun 23 Jun 2013, 8:26 am

First topic message reminder :

AAMI Park, Melbourne
Tuesday June 25, 7:40pm local

Referee: Glen Jackson (New Zealand)
Referee: Romain Poite (France), Craig Joubert (South Africa)
Television match official: Ben Skeen (New Zealand)
Assessor: Lyndon Bray

TEAM LINE UPS:

Rebels

01. Nic Henderson
02. Ged Robinson
03. Laurie Weeks
04. Cadeyrn Neville
05. Hugh Pyle
06. Jarrod Saffy
07. Scott Fuglistaller
08. Gareth Delve (c)

09. Luke Burgess^
10. Bryce Hegarty
11. Lachlan Mitchell
12. Rory Sidey
13. Mitch Inman
14. Tom English
15. Jason Woodward

Replacements:
16. Pat Leafa
17. Cruze Ah Nau*
18. Paul Alo-Emile
19. Luke Jones
20. Jordy Reid
21. Nic Stirzaker
22. Angus Roberts
23. Cooper Vuna

*Rebels debut
^Rebels first start

Lions:
15. Rob Kearney
14. Sean Maitland
13. Manu Tuilagi
12. Brad Barritt
11. Simon Zebo
10. Owen Farrell
09. Conor Murray

08. Toby Faletau
07. Sean O'Brien
06. Dan Lydiate (captain)
05. Ian Evans
04. Richie Gray
03. Dan Cole
02. Richard Hibbard
01. Ryan Grant

Replacements:
Rory Best, Tom Court, Matt Stevens, Tom Croft, Justin Tipuric, Ben Youngs, Billy Twelvetrees, Stuart Hogg.

Preview 1 (from ESPN Sport):

Luke Burgess to direct Rebels
ESPN Staff
June 23, 2013

Luke Burgess will make his first start in Australia in almost two years after being named in Melbourne Rebels' run-on side to play the British & Irish Lions at AAMI Park on Tuesday.

Burgess, who has played 37 Tests for the Wallabies, recently returned to Australia from French Top 14 side with a stated aim of facing the Lions. "Every rugby player's dream is to have the opportunity to play the British & Irish Lions in their home country, and I am very honoured to have been selected to start for the Rebels and get a chance to play them," Burgess said. "Having been in Melbourne a couple of weeks now, I have built some solid combinations with this young playing group, and have enjoyed working alongside Nic Stirzaker in the half-back role. Together, we have both been able to apply a game plan that will look to challenge the Lions, and something we are both looking forward to."

Burgess made mention of the contrasting style between the two continents as a point of difference in his game management. "European rugby is a lot different to what we have down under, and I think I can bring an edge to the Rebels' attack and control the tempo of the game. It's important we establish this early, as we have seen what they can do when allowed to control the match."

Kurtley Beale, James O'Connor and Nick Phipps are unavailable for selection due to Wallabaies commitments, but the Rebels welcome the return of Hugh Pyle and Jarrod Saffy from injury. Rookie fly-half Bryce Hegarty also returns to the run-on side after missing the Rebels' previous match due to illness.

"There are many great milestones in this match," Rebels coach Damien Hill said. "Not only is it the first opportunity the Rebels have to play the British & Irish Lions in front of our members and fans, but it will be the first match for Cruze Ah-Nau at the Rebels and Luke's first start at the club. I am very proud of the way Melbourne has embraced the Rebels, and we hope to repay that with a record attendance at AAMI Park, and a historical moment in Victorian sporting history.

"We have been without a number of our high-profile players this season but the squad has met these challenges head on with many of the younger members like Bryce, Tom English, Jason Woodward, Jordy Reid, Angus Roberts and Pat Leafa getting their first taste of Super Rugby. Their efforts have contributed to a number of excellent team performances this season and they are excited about the challenge they will face together on Tuesday night."

Preview 2 (from ABC Sport):

2013 Lions Tour: England centre Manu Tuilagi to face Melbourne Rebels on Tuesday

England centre Manu Tuilagi will return to action after injury against the Melbourne Rebels on Tuesday after coach Warren Gatland named him in the British and Irish Lions team for the match on Sunday.

Tuilagi suffered a shoulder injury during the match against the Queensland Reds two weeks ago and has not played since but will link up with Brad Barritt for the match against Australia's youngest Super Rugby team.

The team will be led by England lock Geoff Parling, who links up in the second row with Scotland's Richie Gray in a strong pack.

Although this was clearly a second string, or dirt-tracker, team, Gatland said a good performance would put players in contention for the second Test, where they will be looking to wrap up the series after Saturday's 23-21 win over the Wallabies.

"I think it's important for the players to get an opportunity on Tuesday," the New Zealander said.

"We've kept saying all along that there's still a chance for performances to really catch the eye and Tuesday night is another chance to go out and impress.

"We were disappointed with the Brumbies result, I think it was a gentle reminder of certain things we needed to remember for the Test match.

"So for certain guys taking the field on Tuesday, it would be nice to continue with that momentum for the second Test."

Several players saw their Test places go up in smoke when the Lions lost to a Brumbies side in Canberra last Tuesday and get a chance to make amends.

There is also a string contingent of players who were on the bench against the Wallabies at Lang Park, including loose forward Dan Lydiate and Scottish back Sean Maitland.

Owen Farrell starts at fly half in a halves partnership with Irishman Conor Murray while hooker Rory Best, who captained the Lions against the Brumbies, is named among the replacements.

Sean O'Brien gets a chance to impress at openside flanker with Lydiate coming in at blindside and Justin Tipuric, a favourite of many for a Test start at the beginning of the tour, on the bench.

Irish winger Tommy Bowe, who played a major role on the 2009 series in South Africa, has made a rapid recovery after fracturing a bone in his hand against the Reds but was not included in the team to ensure he is fit for Saturday.

There was also good news about another centre, Welsh battering ram Jamie Roberts, who sustained a hamstring strain in last weekend's match against the New South Wales Waratahs.

"They've done a fantastic job getting those guys back and fit and we don't think Jamie Roberts is too far away as well, he was up and running last week and he's potentially in contention for that second Test as well," Gatland said on Sunday.

"So to have Tommy fit and back and to have Manu fit and back as well it's a great contribution from the medical team and the fitness staff.

"The squad is looking healthy, we've got nearly everyone available, which is great, and if you look at the Australians, they took a bit of a battering last night.

"So we're in a good place now and looking forward to Tuesday."

by **George Carlin** Tue 25 Jun 2013, 2:56 pm

This "grunt" that is apparently unique to Evans must be great stuff if it's able to compensate for being 2 inches shorter and a stone and half lighter than Gray.

I agree with wales606 - Faletau was the standout player for me. Perhaps SOB would have been if he'd stayed on for the entire game. I'm not saying that Heaslip did enough wrong to lose his test shirt - just that if Toby replaced him for the second test, I wouldn't claim that it didn't represent form.

Lots of players desperate to get involved more - 36, Barritt, Stevens and Kearney in particular which is great to see. Kearney was limping by the end and whilst I'm a big fan of his, I have to question whether he's ever really been match fit this entire tour.

On to the final test, then. I think that Gats will persist with Philips and Warbuton with Lydiate on the bench. I've already been clear that I think this is the wrong bench to rescue a game that's slipping away but hopefully that won't come back to bite us.

Finally, if we take the second test and have won the series, I think that Gats owes it to a lot of his younger players to get a shot at a test cap. I would love to see Tuilagi and BOD in the midfield with Hogg at 15 and Zebo/Bowe on the wings.

by flyhalffactory Tue 25 Jun 2013, 3:03 pm

Comfort wrote:Total flanker/JMD -

Hibbards done alright in general, but not showing any of the form he had in the 6nations.

Best was better than in his first game on tour, but it was hard to get any worse.

Youngs way out in front at the moment.

I say that as a welshman and big hibbard fan, hes capable of a lot more and is a massively destructive hooker when on form, right now though he isn't up where he can be and has showed he can be.

I said it before the Lions selection and I will say it again the wrong Welsh hooker went on tour, Ken Owens over the last 6-9 months has been the better player and that's not just as a destructive player in the loose but he has a much better technique in the scrum (as is Matthew Rees if the cards are on the table). I haven't been surprised that Hibbard has played at his current level, however Gatland will pick him for the bench which is predictable and hence continually disappointing

by GunsGerms Tue 25 Jun 2013, 3:07 pm

So Faletau has had a good game. Not sure he will be picked for the test however, given that the Lions have just lost one of their most notable leaders in the pack (POC) is it likely that another leader Heaslip will be dropped for the less vocal Faletau? I doubt it.

by Comfort Tue 25 Jun 2013, 3:08 pm

"There were only two 8s that started the game and Toby came second in that particular race."

Only one number 8 in that game got smashed out of the way by the opposing 13....

Toby's not a huge tackler, but to say hes a passive tackler who doesnt stop the opposition....

generally strange comments for me, those... Erm

by **LondonTiger** Tue 25 Jun 2013, 3:10 pm

flyhalffactory wrote:
Comfort wrote:Total flanker/JMD -

Hibbards done alright in general, but not showing any of the form he had in the 6nations.

Best was better than in his first game on tour, but it was hard to get any worse.

Youngs way out in front at the moment.

I say that as a welshman and big hibbard fan, hes capable of a lot more and is a massively destructive hooker when on form, right now though he isn't up where he can be and has showed he can be.

I said it before the Lions selection and I will say it again the wrong Welsh hooker went on tour, Ken Owens over the last 6-9 months has been the better player and that's not just as a destructive player in the loose but he has a much better technique in the scrum (as is Matthew Rees if the cards are on the table). I haven't been surprised that Hibbard has played at his current level, however Gatland will pick him for the bench which is predictable and hence continually disappointing

I thought Owens finished the season injured?

by Comfort Tue 25 Jun 2013, 3:11 pm

FlyFH - now those comments re Owens I can agree with - hes probably the best of all the hookers in wales on form. Ale

forms the keyword i guess for all these guys. Owens certainly makes a stronger imapct from the bench, Hibbard always seems to have to get up to speed when he comes on as a replacement.

by RubyGuby Tue 25 Jun 2013, 3:23 pm

Jo Marler told me last week that Hibbard is a decent tackler thumbsup

by ChequeredJersey Tue 25 Jun 2013, 3:23 pm

Marler's gotten too nice

by RubyGuby Tue 25 Jun 2013, 3:30 pm

Too soft would be more apt CJ - Punching with the big boys is a little different but he will learn - He just needs to lower his profile a little a concentrate on his game and temperament thumbsup

by ChequeredJersey Tue 25 Jun 2013, 3:31 pm

RubyGuby wrote:Too soft would be more apt CJ - Punching with the big boys is a little different but he will learn - He just needs to lower his profile a little a concentrate on his game and temperament

To be fair he has worked on his temperament, he was very fiery early on. Now if anything I think he went a bit too far the other way due to lack of confidence for England. It's a fine balance. He's worked hard on his scrummaging game and he'll get there

by ChequeredJersey Tue 25 Jun 2013, 3:32 pm

Doesn't have much nous yet though

by flyhalffactory Tue 25 Jun 2013, 3:35 pm

George Carlin wrote:This "grunt" that is apparently unique to Evans must be great stuff if it's able to compensate for being 2 inches shorter and a stone and half lighter than Gray.

I agree with wales606 - Faletau was the standout player for me. Perhaps SOB would have been if he'd stayed on for the entire game. I'm not saying that Heaslip did enough wrong to lose his test shirt - just that if Toby replaced him for the second test, I wouldn't claim that it didn't represent form.

Lots of players desperate to get involved more - 36, Barritt, Stevens and Kearney in particular which is great to see. Kearney was limping by the end and whilst I'm a big fan of his, I have to question whether he's ever really been match fit this entire tour.

On to the final test, then. I think that Gats will persist with Philips and Warbuton with Lydiate on the bench. I've already been clear that I think this is the wrong bench to rescue a game that's slipping away but hopefully that won't come back to bite us.

Finally, if we take the second test and have won the series, I think that Gats owes it to a lot of his younger players to get a shot at a test cap. I would love to see Tuilagi and BOD in the midfield with Hogg at 15 and Zebo/Bowe on the wings.

We kinda have a different view on the game, first this was a lower position team with 5-6 ley players missing, the Lions on show today should have been chomping at the bit and sorry I did not think more than 2-3 players forced Gatland to think about his test 15 and not more than 5-6 for the test 23.

I am not sure if I agree Toby was the standout player, he tackled in the right areas today (not passively around the fringes as is his normal game) but with the domination that the Lions pack had he should have done much better. Delve IMHO was the better 8 in a vastly inferior pack. Lydiate (player of the first half) did all the dirty work in the first half to provide SOB with the time to produce the headline runs at the Rebels.

Tualgi was impressive in attack but defensively poor, his positioning in the defensive line meant that the distribution from midfield to wing often broke down, I find it difficult to understand from todays performance how he can replace Davies at 12. The Bench replacements weren't that effective and considering they went down to 14 men we only scored one converted try more than in the first 40 mins

Players who put their hand up for a first 15 slot

SOB
Lydiate

Players who put their hand up for a bench slot

Grant
Gray
Manu
Toby
Farrell
Evans

The others didn't enhance their standing

by GunsGerms Tue 25 Jun 2013, 3:37 pm

Was Murray no good? Zebo?

by ChequeredJersey Tue 25 Jun 2013, 3:38 pm

He was OK. Took his try well but didn't serve to Farrell fantastically considering the platform his backrow gave him

by flyhalffactory Tue 25 Jun 2013, 3:39 pm

GunsGerms wrote:Was Murray no good? Zebo?

I think Murray and Zebo had their best games to-date

by ChequeredJersey Tue 25 Jun 2013, 3:39 pm

Zebo was a mix of very impressive but a couple of turnovers. Lovely hands in a couple of passes, Fullback like positioning covering a couple of kicks, didn't get too much ball in space

by glamorganalun Tue 25 Jun 2013, 3:52 pm

I only watched the second half of the game, I thought the centres looked poor, the service Maitland was getting was rubbish. All the forwards looked good and the half backs. No body has said anything about Tipuric he turned over ball and supported the backs well. I have not been a fan of Faletau but he looked very good along with Gray and Evans. The tries in the second half were very good team tries SOB and Youngs finishing the moves. I thought Murray placed well but not impressed with Kearney, I suspect he is trying too hard but does not like to tackle. I do get frustrated by Croft on the wing preventing the wing getting the ball.

by SecretFly Tue 25 Jun 2013, 4:03 pm

GunsGerms wrote:Was Murray no good? Zebo?

I thought Murray was solid and a cool head. I was impressed by him early in his career. That died off a bit but now it's kinda growing again ...we'll see where how he goes under Schmidt, if he's chosen.

Zebo needs to rein in this idea that rugby is fun. It is, but it's also damn hard work and you have to commit to the non-fun elements of defensive slogging, protecting ball and being 'serious' about the contribution you make to the team. He's undoubtedly a talent but there is so much of his game that still needs a lot of honing to make him much more effective. (only an personal opinion you Munster guys Wink

)

by Portnoy's Complaint Tue 25 Jun 2013, 4:05 pm

A message to Gray: There's more than having a shock of blond hair to get yourself noticed. When you get involved in the down and dirty, there' no point keeping your head in the air for the cameras - you've got to get it buried beside your colleagues' buttocks and do some work to secure the ball.

p.s. you are supposed to be a second row - not a flanker.

by **George Carlin** Tue 25 Jun 2013, 4:10 pm

GG - I think that Murray actually had his best game today. His delivery was fine and he threw his weight around and took his try well. No problems. The common view will probably remain that if you're going to have a player of that ilk then Philips is a better example of the type but Murray ultimately confirmed why he deserved to tour.

Zebo was good to watch - lively with a couple of good offloads. A player that always looks like he might break out, although as with the rest of the team, clean line breaks were hard to come by. I disagree that we played badly in that respect - I think that the Rebels defence was actually fairly good. He won't have done enough to knock Bowe off a test bench slot but he has enhanced his credentials and (unlike a number of other players whose 'game face' makes them look like a wet weekend) wwas clearly enjoying himself thoroughly.

by HammerofThunor Tue 25 Jun 2013, 4:21 pm

flyhalffactory wrote:Tualgi was impressive in attack but defensively poor, his positioning in the defensive line meant that the distribution from midfield to wing often broke down

Now I'm really dim but isn't this a good thing? His positioning in the defensive line broke down their distribution. Or did you mean his positioning in the defensive line meant he was out of place on a counter-attack? I haven't seen the game.

by **George Carlin** Tue 25 Jun 2013, 4:26 pm

greytiger wrote:A message to Gray: There's more than having a shock of blond hair to get yourself noticed. When you get involved in the down and dirty, there' no point keeping your head in the air for the cameras - you've got to get it buried beside your colleagues' buttocks and do some work to secure the ball.

p.s. you are supposed to be a second row - not a flanker.

I'm sure he will take your penetrating analysis into account GT. In contast, the BBC is quoting Gatland post match in saying that he thought Gray had his best game on tour.

by SecretFly Tue 25 Jun 2013, 4:38 pm

We must temper all match reports by acknowledging that Melbourne Rebels have won 4 of their 15 Super games and lie in 12th on the table. I don't really know why they or Force were ever seen as genuine challengers to the Lions, (even with a full contingent of players)

by **LondonTiger** Tue 25 Jun 2013, 4:41 pm

George Carlin wrote:I'm sure he will take your penetrating analysis into account GT. In contast, the BBC is quoting Gatland post match in saying that he thought Gray had his best game on tour.

which is bad news for Gray, as the players given special mentions by the Fat Controller after other midweek games did not make the test side I think.

by glamorganalun Tue 25 Jun 2013, 4:42 pm

greytiger wrote:A message to Gray: There's more than having a shock of blond hair to get yourself noticed. When you get involved in the down and dirty, there' no point keeping your head in the air for the cameras - you've got to get it buried beside your colleagues' buttocks and do some work to secure the ball.

p.s. you are supposed to be a second row - not a flanker.

Totally agree, similar to my comments about Croft stop posing on the wing and help out to win the ball in the tackle area.

by Portnoy's Complaint Tue 25 Jun 2013, 4:43 pm

George Carlin wrote:
greytiger wrote:A message to Gray: There's more than having a shock of blond hair to get yourself noticed. When you get involved in the down and dirty, there' no point keeping your head in the air for the cameras - you've got to get it buried beside your colleagues' buttocks and do some work to secure the ball.

p.s. you are supposed to be a second row - not a flanker.
I'm sure he will take your penetrating analysis into account GT. In contast, the BBC is quoting Gatland post match in saying that he thought Gray had his best game on tour.

Well I'm not surprised. Gray has had a surprisingly poor tour. Albeit that he was coached by Diamond this season.
Probably shows that the Celts should go it alone so far as Fatboy's comments go...

by flyhalffactory Tue 25 Jun 2013, 4:57 pm

HammerofThunor wrote:
flyhalffactory wrote:Tualgi was impressive in attack but defensively poor, his positioning in the defensive line meant that the distribution from midfield to wing often broke down

Now I'm really dim but isn't this a good thing? His positioning in the defensive line broke down their distribution. Or did you mean his positioning in the defensive line meant he was out of place on a counter-attack? I haven't seen the game.

I wouldn't say you were really dim.

Tualagi was out of the line defensive line frequently, rushed out a few times, and generally forced others (Lions out of position to cover the holes). As a result when the counter was on the attack which should have been seamless was anything but..... with passes going astray and turnovers abound.

He gave 100% though and could well have done enough to be on the bench

by flyhalffactory Tue 25 Jun 2013, 5:00 pm

greytiger wrote:
George Carlin wrote:
greytiger wrote:A message to Gray: There's more than having a shock of blond hair to get yourself noticed. When you get involved in the down and dirty, there' no point keeping your head in the air for the cameras - you've got to get it buried beside your colleagues' buttocks and do some work to secure the ball.

p.s. you are supposed to be a second row - not a flanker.
I'm sure he will take your penetrating analysis into account GT. In contast, the BBC is quoting Gatland post match in saying that he thought Gray had his best game on tour.
Well I'm not surprised. Gray has had a surprisingly poor tour. Albeit that he was coached by Diamond this season.
Probably shows that the Celts should go it alone so far as Fatboy's comments go...

You are a little bit strange "greytiger"

Do you live alone in a bedsit below a railway arch?

by **RDW** Tue 25 Jun 2013, 5:02 pm

Really can't see how someone who was 2nd top of the tackle count and had so many carries could be accused of not doing hard graft and being a show pony?? Headscratch

Out of the two locks Evans did better in the lineout but Gray added a lot more round the pitch.

by SecretFly Tue 25 Jun 2013, 5:10 pm

greytiger wrote:Well I'm not surprised. Gray has had a surprisingly poor tour. Albeit that he was coached by Diamond this season.
Probably shows that the Celts should go it alone so far as Fatboy's comments go...

Two of the Celts are British. You try to pull off this idea that England are the 'outsiders' at the party and just have too much to be doing at a serious International level to be contributing to the Lions....but it don't work, grey.

We're the true outsiders of course. 81 starts for British players so far to our 25. We'll leave instead. You're grand, stay where you are - it's fambily after all Wink

by **LondonTiger** Tue 25 Jun 2013, 5:18 pm

flyhalffactory wrote:You are a little bit strange "greytiger"

Anyone with more than 1,000 posts is probably at least a little strange Wink

Do you live alone in a bedsit below a railway arch?

A nice retirement bungalow on the east coast, maybe Suffolk or the Naze, woudl be my quess

by Portnoy's Complaint Tue 25 Jun 2013, 5:26 pm

SecretFly wrote:
greytiger wrote:Well I'm not surprised. Gray has had a surprisingly poor tour. Albeit that he was coached by Diamond this season.
Probably shows that the Celts should go it alone so far as Fatboy's comments go...

Two of the Celts are British. You try to pull off this idea that England are the 'outsiders' at the party and just have too much to be doing at a serious International level to be contributing to the Lions....but it don't work, grey.

We're the true outsiders of course. 81 starts for British players so far to our 25. We'll leave instead. You're grand, stay where you are - it's fambily after all

I'm absolutely not saying that SF. What I'm saying is that the Lions is an episode which has died and and has been falsified by the media as being stronger and better since professionalism.

It's not considering the schedules and the management.

What I contend is that the Celtic bits of the Rabo could fare just as well without the English.

And the English could fare OK without the disruptive Lions tours.

by flyhalffactory Tue 25 Jun 2013, 5:26 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
flyhalffactory wrote:You are a little bit strange "greytiger"

Anyone with more than 1,000 posts is probably at least a little strange

Do you live alone in a bedsit below a railway arch?
A nice retirement bungalow on the east coast, maybe Suffolk or the Naze, woudl be my quess

Bl00dy hell I am coming close to 2000 posts does that make me a right nutter

I think he (greytiger) is an avid fan of Jeffrey Archer novels, and he reads them quietly in the evening with his cat purring alongside him

by thomh Tue 25 Jun 2013, 5:28 pm

flyhalffactory wrote:
HammerofThunor wrote:
flyhalffactory wrote:Tualgi was impressive in attack but defensively poor, his positioning in the defensive line meant that the distribution from midfield to wing often broke down

Now I'm really dim but isn't this a good thing? His positioning in the defensive line broke down their distribution. Or did you mean his positioning in the defensive line meant he was out of place on a counter-attack? I haven't seen the game.

I wouldn't say you were really dim.

Tualagi was out of the line defensive line frequently, rushed out a few times, and generally forced others (Lions out of position to cover the holes). As a result when the counter was on the attack which should have been seamless was anything but..... with passes going astray and turnovers abound.

He gave 100% though and could well have done enough to be on the bench

I think it's highly speculative blaming a poor counter attack on someone rushing out of the defensive line before you turned possession over. Any concrete examples for us to judge?

by flyhalffactory Tue 25 Jun 2013, 5:32 pm

thomh wrote:
flyhalffactory wrote:
HammerofThunor wrote:
flyhalffactory wrote:Tualgi was impressive in attack but defensively poor, his positioning in the defensive line meant that the distribution from midfield to wing often broke down

Now I'm really dim but isn't this a good thing? His positioning in the defensive line broke down their distribution. Or did you mean his positioning in the defensive line meant he was out of place on a counter-attack? I haven't seen the game.

I wouldn't say you were really dim.

Tualagi was out of the line defensive line frequently, rushed out a few times, and generally forced others (Lions out of position to cover the holes). As a result when the counter was on the attack which should have been seamless was anything but..... with passes going astray and turnovers abound.

He gave 100% though and could well have done enough to be on the bench

I think it's highly speculative blaming a poor counter attack on someone rushing out of the defensive line before you turned possession over. Any concrete examples for us to judge?

Well did you watch the match?

by thomh Tue 25 Jun 2013, 5:33 pm

Yes and I didn't see a single example of that happening.

by flyhalffactory Tue 25 Jun 2013, 5:34 pm

YOU DIDNT.................. really

by flyhalffactory Tue 25 Jun 2013, 5:36 pm

Have you taped it?

by Cyril Tue 25 Jun 2013, 5:36 pm

glamorganalun wrote:I do get frustrated by Croft on the wing preventing the wing getting the ball.

This again? Croft was only on for about 15 minutes, got in his fair share of tackles (check the stats) and set up Youngs' try from the line-out. I'm not sure he had enough time to 'showboat on the wing'.

Are you sure you didn't just type this comment before the game and then pasted it in regardless of how it panned out?

I think some people just have opinions of players and don't like to change them even based on evidence right in front of them.

by thomh Tue 25 Jun 2013, 5:38 pm

flyhalffactory wrote:Have you taped it?

Yes.

by flyhalffactory Tue 25 Jun 2013, 5:42 pm

thomh wrote:
flyhalffactory wrote:Have you taped it?

Yes.

Ok I have too........... so what I will do is I will rewatch it and let you know every time that happened. Then you can let me know based on your original statement what you think OK?. Because he rushed out of the defensive line more times than Davies did in the first test

by SecretFly Tue 25 Jun 2013, 5:43 pm

greytiger wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
greytiger wrote:Well I'm not surprised. Gray has had a surprisingly poor tour. Albeit that he was coached by Diamond this season.
Probably shows that the Celts should go it alone so far as Fatboy's comments go...

Two of the Celts are British. You try to pull off this idea that England are the 'outsiders' at the party and just have too much to be doing at a serious International level to be contributing to the Lions....but it don't work, grey.

We're the true outsiders of course. 81 starts for British players so far to our 25. We'll leave instead. You're grand, stay where you are - it's fambily after all

I'm absolutely not saying that SF. What I'm saying is that the Lions is an episode which has died and and has been falsified by the media as being stronger and better since professionalism.

It's not considering the schedules and the management.

What I contend is that the Celtic bits of the Rabo could fare just as well without the English.

And the English could fare OK without the disruptive Lions tours.

I don't disagree with your general premise, grey (I'm not exactly the wildest Lions fan on these boards!) but again, 'the Celts need the Lions more than the English do' seems to be still your argument.
I'd say that the reality of European rugby these last few years proves different. I'd assume all of us as Individual (rugby) Nations would benefit much more on a selfish basis from having Summer tours devoted to full strength sides, especially in the lead in to the next WC. We'd all fare okay without the disruption of the Lions. But the fans of the event seem to love the disruption all the same.

by Cyril Tue 25 Jun 2013, 5:45 pm

flyhalffactory wrote:
thomh wrote:
flyhalffactory wrote:Have you taped it?

Yes.

Ok I have too........... so what I will do is I will rewatch it and let you know every time that happened. Then you can let me know based on your original statement what you think OK?. Because he rushed out of the defensive line more times than Davies did in the first test

Surely you've got something better to do, but if it's a slow evening, go for it.

Be sure to fax a transcript to Gats.

by thomh Tue 25 Jun 2013, 5:46 pm

flyhalffactory wrote:
thomh wrote:
flyhalffactory wrote:Have you taped it?

Yes.

Ok I have too........... so what I will do is I will rewatch it and let you know every time that happened. Then you can let me know based on your original statement what you think OK?. Because he rushed out of the defensive line more times than Davies did in the first test

Maybe he did, but I wasn't denying that. I was just denying that him rushing out of the defensive line had any negative effect on our ability to counter attack.

by flyhalffactory Tue 25 Jun 2013, 5:56 pm

thomh wrote:
flyhalffactory wrote:
thomh wrote:
flyhalffactory wrote:Have you taped it?

Yes.

Ok I have too........... so what I will do is I will rewatch it and let you know every time that happened. Then you can let me know based on your original statement what you think OK?. Because he rushed out of the defensive line more times than Davies did in the first test

Maybe he did, but I wasn't denying that. I was just denying that him rushing out of the defensive line had any negative effect on our ability to counter attack.

Are you serious?

He was playing "Outside" (not left-right) - His inability to nail the man on the rush, or his positional faux pas (on occasions) in that respect often left Maitland and/or Kearney attempting to shore up the holes, hence on the counter the distribution lacked cohesion as one or both of them were not in the attacking line. Did you notice how many times we botched up the attacking movement between 9-14, then watch how many times the line was broken and more importantly where it was broken.

by **George Carlin** Tue 25 Jun 2013, 6:06 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
George Carlin wrote:I'm sure he will take your penetrating analysis into account GT. In contast, the BBC is quoting Gatland post match in saying that he thought Gray had his best game on tour.

which is bad news for Gray, as the players given special mentions by the Fat Controller after other midweek games did not make the test side I think.

So by complimenting Gray, Gatland is actually secretly criticising him? Genius. I would have missed that entirely.

by thomh Tue 25 Jun 2013, 6:14 pm

flyhalffactory wrote:
He was playing "Outside" (not left-right) - His inability to nail the man on the rush, or his positional faux pas (on occasions) in that respect often left Maitland and/or Kearney attempting to shore up the holes, hence on the counter the distribution lacked cohesion as one or both of them were not in the attacking line. Did you notice how many times we botched up the attacking movement between 9-14, then watch how many times the line was broken and more importantly where it was broken.

All very theoretical, but can you actually point to any instances of it happening?

by **LondonTiger** Tue 25 Jun 2013, 6:23 pm

George Carlin wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:
George Carlin wrote:I'm sure he will take your penetrating analysis into account GT. In contast, the BBC is quoting Gatland post match in saying that he thought Gray had his best game on tour.

which is bad news for Gray, as the players given special mentions by the Fat Controller after other midweek games did not make the test side I think.
So by complimenting Gray, Gatland is actually secretly criticising him? Genius. I would have missed that entirely.

I was getting the feeling that rather than being critical, it was liek a primary school teacher telling a kid how well they have done, before giving the prize to their favourite

by flyhalffactory Tue 25 Jun 2013, 6:35 pm

thomh wrote:
flyhalffactory wrote:
He was playing "Outside" (not left-right) - His inability to nail the man on the rush, or his positional faux pas (on occasions) in that respect often left Maitland and/or Kearney attempting to shore up the holes, hence on the counter the distribution lacked cohesion as one or both of them were not in the attacking line. Did you notice how many times we botched up the attacking movement between 9-14, then watch how many times the line was broken and more importantly where it was broken.

All very theoretical, but can you actually point to any instances of it happening?

As I said to you I will make a point of providing you with examples throughout the match........... and as you have taped it then you can watch it and come back with your opinions ok?

by majesticimperialman Tue 25 Jun 2013, 6:45 pm

Another men against boys type of game. Dont get wrong the Rebels put in a good game, but if they had any internationals in their team they would have punish the Lions with the amount of mistakes they made.

Nice for the Lions to nil the rebels and some good and not so performances from certain players.

Tualagi had a slow start to the game but made up for it in the second half.

Rob Kerney not one of his best performances, but to be honest he looked like he picked up an injury.

Connar Murry had one of his better games to day. Great try from him.

Zebo and Maitland had pretty good games to day.

How many of the team that played to day will make it to the test team for saturday?

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