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2013 LIONS - The Negative Topic ( WARNING not for the faint hearted )

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tigerleghorn
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2013 LIONS - The Negative Topic ( WARNING not for the faint hearted ) Empty 2013 LIONS - The Negative Topic ( WARNING not for the faint hearted )

Post by Scrumpy Mon 01 Jul 2013, 1:53 pm

With all the other Lions topics resulting in 'my Lions are better than your Lions' arguments and the usual Wales vs. Eng dross, this topic is geared so that grumpy Lions fans can let off some steam without derailing the serious Topics for the serious 606ers or being accused of being biased and anti this and auntie that!
 
Enjoy.
 
 
I'll start - for me Gatland got it wrong from day one, his attitude and comments towards some players before he even drafted a squad was wrong and not based on rugby.  

This tour has a sense of deja vu about it, but I can't wait for the DVD!
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Post by LondonTiger Mon 01 Jul 2013, 5:14 pm

COME ON YOU LIONS

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Post by SecretFly Mon 01 Jul 2013, 5:15 pm

If we get it off our chests..... won't the guys come over anyway and accuse us of being anti-this'n'that?

Have you this'n'that sound proofed this thread?

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Post by SecretFly Mon 01 Jul 2013, 5:16 pm

LondonTiger wrote:COME ON YOU LIONS

You are flagrantly anti-this thread, Tiger! If you persist a mod will be called.

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Post by R!skysports Mon 01 Jul 2013, 5:16 pm

Well I think it was destined to be a f up from the start

Don't they all play upside down in Australia - did we train for that - DID WE?!?!

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Post by R!skysports Mon 01 Jul 2013, 5:17 pm

SecretFly wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:COME ON YOU LIONS

You are flagrantly anti-this thread, Tiger!  If you persist a mod will be called.

But isn't being anti this thread allowed as is it a thread for anti comments, so an anti - anti comment is allowed - but only when we disagree

Arrrgh - sore head now

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Post by SecretFly Mon 01 Jul 2013, 5:55 pm

Riskysports wrote:Well I think it was destined to be a f up from the start

Don't they all play upside down in Australia - did we train for that - DID WE?!?!

Valid point! Well spotted.. Invalid in Australia though where the games are being played. The Lions should be cited for trying to play rugby the right way up actually.

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Post by GloriousEmpire Mon 01 Jul 2013, 6:10 pm

"Lions : Template Approach for Failure"

1. Appoint a partisan coach certain to select players from his own squad based on reputation, despite obvious lack of form; if possible first select players returning from injury.

2. Immediately neglect captains and figures of leadership and authority from rival nations in the name of "team harmony". Brazenly assume that captains from rival countries will enter into a disruptive power struggle rather than having the common cause at heart.

3. Select a conservative, out dated game plan and blithely assume this "secret weapon" will be the last thing expected by the host nation.

4. Arrange an unnecessary number of warm up games to maximise revenue. Ensure enough game time to allow key members of the squad to be injured for the test series.

5. Rotate selection in warm up matches suitably so that combinations cannot be developed. If possible make preposterous selections such as playing an unselectably fringe player in a pivotal role.

6. Ignore all evident form during warm up games when selecting for test matches.

7. Leverage team disharmony to its fullest by ensuring a game 3 days prior to the first test and asserting players included have no chance of test selection. This maximises the opportunity of the first tour loss and will help destroy all momentum and create a handy rift in the team.

8. Public statement to the media about how the referees will favour the home team and don't understand northern hemisphere rugby.

9. Accuse the opposition captain of being a thuggish cheat who needs a lengthy ban. This will maximise home siege mentality, turn home fans fervently against the Lions and ensure a raucous level of home support.

10. Go out there and lose it!


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Post by RubyGuby Mon 01 Jul 2013, 7:18 pm

SecretFly wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:COME ON WALIONS

You are flagrantly anti-this thread, Tiger!  If you persist a mod will be called.

X Run


Last edited by RubyGuby on Mon 01 Jul 2013, 9:12 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Portnoy's Complaint Mon 01 Jul 2013, 8:56 pm

Anything that I can offer to get the thread back on track?

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Post by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Mon 01 Jul 2013, 9:13 pm

GloriousEmpire wrote:"Lions : Template Approach for Failure"

1. Appoint a partisan coach certain to select players from his own squad based on reputation, despite obvious lack of form; if possible first select players returning from injury.

2. Immediately neglect captains and figures of leadership and authority from rival nations in the name of "team harmony". Brazenly assume that captains from rival countries will enter into a disruptive power struggle rather than having the common cause at heart.

3. Select a conservative, out dated game plan and blithely assume this "secret weapon" will be the last thing expected by the host nation.

4. Arrange an unnecessary number of warm up games to maximise revenue. Ensure enough game time to allow key members of the squad to be injured for the test series.

5. Rotate selection in warm up matches suitably so that combinations cannot be developed. If possible make preposterous selections such as playing an unselectably fringe player in a pivotal role.

6. Ignore all evident form during warm up games when selecting for test matches.

7. Leverage team disharmony to its fullest by ensuring a game 3 days prior to the first test and asserting players included have no chance of test selection. This maximises the opportunity of the first tour loss and will help destroy all momentum and create a handy rift in the team.

8. Public statement to the media about how the referees will favour the home team and don't understand northern hemisphere rugby.

9. Accuse the opposition captain of being a thuggish cheat who needs a lengthy ban. This will maximise home siege mentality, turn home fans fervently against the Lions and ensure a raucous level of home support.

10. Go out there and lose it!


I can't believe that FatMan shared his master plan with you, GE?

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Post by robbo277 Mon 01 Jul 2013, 9:29 pm

Victor

If you are talking about Gatland's comments about not wanting to take too many English players in case the tour became a circus I totally agree with that. I was completely shocked when that came out and was largely put off the Lions tour until the squad was announced with a decent contingent of England players.

I agree with a lot of the points Glorious Empire has made as well. I don't like Gatland's mindgames and I think they rarely work. I remember him having a pop at Hartley before a game once, saying he could be targeted and his line-out throwing was weak, before Hartley stuffed his words back down his mouth by putting in a fine performance.

I think Gatland was unfortunate in that his gameplan involves a crashball 12 to get the team over the gain line, a role which neither Davies or O'Driscoll can fulfill. The unfortunate part was Roberts and Tuilagi both picking up injuries before the first test. Davies was in great form and got the nod at 12, but it didn't work in the first test and we were lucky to get away with it. Tuilagi should have at least got a bench spot in the second test to change it up if it failed again - which it did.

Similar to some fans questioning why Grant did not coming on for Vunipola, why did Farrell sit on the bench when things weren't happening for Sexton? He hauled Youngs off and Murray came on and looked sharper, but Sexton still wasn't pulling the strings and Farrell was left on the bench. Sexton was the right choice for the first test and I had no problem Farrell being left on the bench when Sexton was playing well, but in the second test I thought Farrell should have been used, especially after he put in a strong performance standing flatter against the Rebels.

If you look at the back row that finished the second test, we basically finished with 3 6s. I know O'Brien is versatile, but Lancaster proved in the Six Nations that 3 blindside flankers, no matter how talented, do not make a good back row. If he chooses Lydiate as his first choice blindside that's fine, but to put two blindsides on the bench doesn't make sense. The balance was wrong because he was trying to shoehorn his favourites into the 23 (Lydiate and Croft), while including the form player (O'Brien).

Enough on Gatland, and onto the players. We threw front ball and drive twice in the lineout on Saturday, both times we won penalties. Why did we then switch to back ball? And why did we keep using back ball when it obviously wasn't working? I understand back ball is better if you want to unleash your outside backs, but it just wasn't working. Parling has to take the brunt of that criticism, brought in as a lineout guru and got that one wrong.

If it wasn't Gatland's plan to kick the leather off the ball, why did the players do it? And if it was the plan, why did the leaders not realise it wasn't working and change the plan? To be fair I suppose not much was working, but it seemed every time we got the ball in the second half we kicked it. Most of the time Australia had 5 players back to field a kick. That means they can only have 10 players defending up the pitch, why not take them on a bit and leave some doubt in the Australian players' minds? A couple of quick phases and a 20m gain might make them pull one or two players up from the deep, creating more space to kick into.

And to some of the fans, Brian Moore summed it up for me on Twitter. If you mention a players nationality either in reference to a good performance or a poor performance you don't understand what it means to be a Lion. Some of the stuff on this board hurts to read.

Those are my rants and complaints. I'll still be screaming for the Lions come the third test.

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Post by 21st Century Schizoid Man Mon 01 Jul 2013, 9:32 pm

GloriousEmpire wrote:"Lions : Template Approach for Failure"

1. Appoint a partisan coach certain to select players from his own squad based on reputation, despite obvious lack of form; if possible first select players returning from injury.

2. Immediately neglect captains and figures of leadership and authority from rival nations in the name of "team harmony". Brazenly assume that captains from rival countries will enter into a disruptive power struggle rather than having the common cause at heart.

3. Select a conservative, out dated game plan and blithely assume this "secret weapon" will be the last thing expected by the host nation.

4. Arrange an unnecessary number of warm up games to maximise revenue. Ensure enough game time to allow key members of the squad to be injured for the test series.

5. Rotate selection in warm up matches suitably so that combinations cannot be developed. If possible make preposterous selections such as playing an unselectably fringe player in a pivotal role.

6. Ignore all evident form during warm up games when selecting for test matches.

7. Leverage team disharmony to its fullest by ensuring a game 3 days prior to the first test and asserting players included have no chance of test selection. This maximises the opportunity of the first tour loss and will help destroy all momentum and create a handy rift in the team.

8. Public statement to the media about how the referees will favour the home team and don't understand northern hemisphere rugby.

9. Accuse the opposition captain of being a thuggish cheat who needs a lengthy ban. This will maximise home siege mentality, turn home fans fervently against the Lions and ensure a raucous level of home support.

10. Go out there and lose it!


Brilliant. Love it laughing 
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Post by dragonbreath Tue 02 Jul 2013, 3:19 am

21st Century Schizoid Man wrote:
GloriousEmpire wrote:"Lions : Template Approach for Failure"

1. Appoint a partisan coach certain to select players from his own squad based on reputation, despite obvious lack of form; if possible first select players returning from injury.

2. Immediately neglect captains and figures of leadership and authority from rival nations in the name of "team harmony". Brazenly assume that captains from rival countries will enter into a disruptive power struggle rather than having the common cause at heart.

3. Select a conservative, out dated game plan and blithely assume this "secret weapon" will be the last thing expected by the host nation.

4. Arrange an unnecessary number of warm up games to maximise revenue. Ensure enough game time to allow key members of the squad to be injured for the test series.

5. Rotate selection in warm up matches suitably so that combinations cannot be developed. If possible make preposterous selections such as playing an unselectably fringe player in a pivotal role.

6. Ignore all evident form during warm up games when selecting for test matches.

7. Leverage team disharmony to its fullest by ensuring a game 3 days prior to the first test and asserting players included have no chance of test selection. This maximises the opportunity of the first tour loss and will help destroy all momentum and create a handy rift in the team.

8. Public statement to the media about how the referees will favour the home team and don't understand northern hemisphere rugby.

9. Accuse the opposition captain of being a thuggish cheat who needs a lengthy ban. This will maximise home siege mentality, turn home fans fervently against the Lions and ensure a raucous level of home support.

10. Go out there and lose it!


Brilliant. Love it laughing 

I expected more from a Crimson fan:drumroll: 

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Post by nobbled Tue 02 Jul 2013, 12:10 pm

Gatland reminds me of General Melchett in Blackadder.
Similiar battle tactics - march straight towards the enemy - as we did the last 18 times - they'll never expect us to be stupid enough to try it again!
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Post by RuggerRadge2611 Tue 02 Jul 2013, 12:12 pm

I have said it from day one. You need more than backs who weigh in excess than 16st to beat Australia.
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Post by nobbled Tue 02 Jul 2013, 12:13 pm

Although I did enjoy George North picking up an Australian and running down field with him...


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Post by funnyExiledScot Tue 02 Jul 2013, 12:13 pm

GloriousEmpire OK

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Post by HongKongCherry Tue 02 Jul 2013, 12:13 pm

It so obvious, Gatland the plonker, should have taken the tour to a different country and selected more All Blacks. We'd win then Whistle 
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Post by banshee007 Tue 02 Jul 2013, 1:02 pm

[quote="GloriousEmpire"]"Lions : Template Approach for Failure"

1. Appoint a partisan coach certain to select players from his own squad based on reputation, despite obvious lack of form; if possible first select players returning from injury.

2. Immediately neglect captains and figures of leadership and authority from rival nations in the name of "team harmony". Brazenly assume that captains from rival countries will enter into a disruptive power struggle rather than having the common cause at heart.

3. Select a conservative, out dated game plan and blithely assume this "secret weapon" will be the last thing expected by the host nation.

4. Arrange an unnecessary number of warm up games to maximise revenue. Ensure enough game time to allow key members of the squad to be injured for the test series.

5. Rotate selection in warm up matches suitably so that combinations cannot be developed. If possible make preposterous selections such as playing an unselectably fringe player in a pivotal role.

6. Ignore all evident form during warm up games when selecting for test matches.

7. Leverage team disharmony to its fullest by ensuring a game 3 days prior to the first test and asserting players included have no chance of test selection. This maximises the opportunity of the first tour loss and will help destroy all momentum and create a handy rift in the team.

8. Public statement to the media about how the referees will favour the home team and don't understand northern hemisphere rugby.

9. Accuse the opposition captain of being a thuggish cheat who needs a lengthy ban. This will maximise home siege mentality, turn home fans fervently against the Lions and ensure a raucous level of home support.

10. Go out there and lose it!

[/quote

A "Glorious" masterclass in negativity. Well said that man.

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Post by RuggerRadge2611 Tue 02 Jul 2013, 1:36 pm

OK Pretty accurate stuff from GE.
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Post by tigertattie Tue 02 Jul 2013, 1:50 pm

My dad is bigger than your dad!

I win!
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Post by lostinwales Tue 02 Jul 2013, 1:52 pm

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:OK Pretty accurate stuff from GE.

Well even a broken clock is right twice a day (unless its digital)

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Post by RuggerRadge2611 Tue 02 Jul 2013, 1:55 pm

I work with a few Welsh guys and even they think Gatland has picked certain Welsh guys on reputation alone.
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Post by t1000advancedprototype Tue 02 Jul 2013, 3:52 pm

This is so racist.

Please stop being racist.

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Post by RuggerRadge2611 Tue 02 Jul 2013, 3:54 pm

 
t1000advancedprototype wrote:This is so racist.

Please stop being racist.

Erm chin
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Post by jimmyinthewell68 Tue 02 Jul 2013, 4:14 pm

do u know who i feel sorry for the poor coach who is picked to take the lions to New Zealand four years time . arise sir Stuart of lancaster . Robshaw be captain

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Post by sickofwendy Tue 02 Jul 2013, 4:26 pm

Andy Robinson has been promised the next gig Shocked 

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Post by Glas a du Tue 02 Jul 2013, 4:41 pm

LondonTiger wrote:COME ON YOU LIONS

That's too clever to be really funny...

Or maybe not Laugh
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Post by LondonTiger Tue 02 Jul 2013, 4:52 pm

Glas a du wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:COME ON YOU LIONS

That's too clever to be really funny...

Or maybe not Laugh

Edited to further enhance the spirit of unity Very Happy

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Post by tigertattie Tue 02 Jul 2013, 4:54 pm

I AM SPARTACUS!
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Post by Glas a du Tue 02 Jul 2013, 4:55 pm

tigertattie wrote:I AM SPARTACUS!

Are you? Then sit on that bench and don't move...
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Post by RuggerRadge2611 Tue 02 Jul 2013, 5:00 pm

Glas a du wrote:
tigertattie wrote:I AM SPARTACUS!

Are you? Then sit on that bench and don't move...

He said he is Spartacus. Not Ryan Grant.
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Post by Portnoy's Complaint Tue 02 Jul 2013, 5:03 pm

COME HOME YOU TIGERS

Get out of that Hell hole.

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Post by tigerleghorn Tue 02 Jul 2013, 5:37 pm

Portnoy's Complaint wrote:COME HOME YOU TIGERS

Get out of that Hell hole.

+1

Mid table mediocrity awaits for us if we're not careful with our resources.

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Post by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Tue 02 Jul 2013, 5:40 pm

Portnoy's Complaint wrote:COME HOME YOU TIGERS

Get out of that Hell hole.

 Hmmm, the horrors of Bondi, or the sunny beaches of Leciester. Tough choice Wink
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Post by LondonTiger Tue 02 Jul 2013, 5:41 pm

Barbie or Balti.

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Post by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Tue 02 Jul 2013, 5:44 pm

LondonTiger wrote:Barbie or Balti.

Hmmm chin
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Post by doctor_grey Tue 02 Jul 2013, 7:10 pm

tigerleghorn wrote:
Portnoy's Complaint wrote:COME HOME YOU TIGERS

Get out of that Hell hole.

+1

Mid table mediocrity awaits for us if we're not careful with our resources.
Spend, spend, spend...........

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Post by SecretFly Tue 02 Jul 2013, 7:29 pm

WALTZING MATILDA!

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Post by The Saint Tue 02 Jul 2013, 7:57 pm

VictorU3 wrote:
 
 
I'll start - for me Gatland got it wrong from day one, his attitude and comments towards some players before he even drafted a squad was wrong and not based on rugby.  

Interesting. And what exactly do you think the squad was based on if not rugby, a few games of backgammon?

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Post by RubyGuby Tue 02 Jul 2013, 8:57 pm

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
Glas a du wrote:
tigertattie wrote:I AM SPARTACUS!

Are you? Then sit on that bench and don't move...

He said he is Spartacus. Not Ryan Grant.

Now that's funny Yahoo Yahoo Yahoo Yahoo Yahoo Yahoo 

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Post by SecretFly Tue 02 Jul 2013, 9:02 pm

That was Ryan Grant saying he's Spartacus

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Post by SecretFly Tue 02 Jul 2013, 9:04 pm

The Saint wrote:
VictorU3 wrote:
 
 
I'll start - for me Gatland got it wrong from day one, his attitude and comments towards some players before he even drafted a squad was wrong and not based on rugby.  

Interesting. And what exactly do you think the squad was based on if not rugby, a few games of backgammon?

On evidence of last two games???? Hmmmm, tough one

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Post by yappysnap Tue 02 Jul 2013, 9:36 pm

LOUD NOISES!

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Post by RubyGuby Tue 02 Jul 2013, 9:38 pm

thumbsup Get back on the Lithium Yappy

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Post by Glas a du Tue 02 Jul 2013, 10:21 pm

Any truth in the broken curfew rumour?
Glas a du
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Post by RubyGuby Tue 02 Jul 2013, 10:24 pm

thumbsup There was a young poster called Glas
Who would always profer to ask
Any truth in the broken curfew rumour
Or has Gats just and gone and lost all his Humour
or am I still talking out my arxe



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Post by doctor_grey Tue 02 Jul 2013, 11:34 pm

Portnoy's Complaint wrote:COME HOME YOU TITS

Get out of that a*se hole.
Sorry.  Couldn't resist.  The devil made me do it.

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Post by Glas a du Tue 02 Jul 2013, 11:39 pm

He has the best Tunes.
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