Gray, the Lion who should be roaring.

On a thread asking who has been overrated on tour, certain individuals stated that they thought Richie Gray was one of the most overrated players on the tour.

I found this comment laughable since Gray has done everything expected of him as an international lock. Normally I would have caveated that with IMO (in my opinion), not this time because it's not my opinion it's a fact.

The move to Sale didn't help Gray, people basically thought he's in a poor team, he is playing poorly. Of course guys that watch Scotland know differently. Sure we had a poor autumn series but Robinson paid for that with his job. Gray however along with Kelly Brown was one of the few players to emerge with his reputation intact.

Then came the 6N and Dean Ryan coached Gray to be even better. Ok so he isn't seen as much in the backline skinning Irish full backs anymore but instead he has been hitting rucks much more aggressively and with better technique. He is offering himself more to the scrum half to do the tight powerful carries, all the while improving his lineout work and his scrummaging technique.

I have seen this on the Lions tour from Gray so I find myself wondering how he is overrated. The fact that he hasn't started a single test points to the fact that he is underrated since in every game he has played he has been amongst the top carriers in the pack and is in the top 3 tacklers overall for the entire tour.

So to sum up, he is bigger, faster and more agile than AWJ, stronger and more abrasive than Parling at the rucks and in the scrum, and he is the Tallest of all the locks and is better at stealing opposition ball at the lineout.

So what is expected of an international or Lions lock? Certainly for me Gray has only been guilty of one thing

I couldn't agree more, possibly the worst treated Lion on tour, along with Grant and Hogg of course

I agree he has had a great tour, having IMO been lucky to get selected after a terrible club season,a decent international season before picking up a bad injury.
However the one thing that has held him back a bit is his lineout.
Yes i know he is great at the front, often making a mess of or stealing the opposition ball.

However as AWJ was shoed in at 4, to accomodate his selection alongside POC, Gatland decided to leave AWJ at 4 (his linout has been the weakest part of his game on tour) after POC's injury which left Gray competing with Evans and Parling for the 5 shirt.

Because Parling is a natural and good middle lineout operator, and is a club colleague of the first choice hooker, it made it almost impossible for Gray to get selected unless he played out of his skin as a middle jumper. To be fair to Gatland ( hard though it is!) they tried Gray in the middle of quite a few lineouts, in the mid week games, but he was unconvincing in that role. Having Hibberd and Best throwing will not have helped!

As the lineout has been poor, almost regardless of who is throwing i would have been tempted to move AWJ to his natural position at 5 to select Gray in his natural slot at 4. This would have added much more grunt to the scrum, put pressure on the front of the Aussie lineout and given us  a lot more carrying in the loose than Parling could provide.

Evans coming off the bench would have replaced power with power ( for Gray) or less power for more power ( for AWJ). Evans again usually plays 4 but is more adept as a middle jumper than Gray.
These seem like the obvoius choices given the players but as the head coach is Welsh and the forwards coach is English they were never going to happen. The linout has been poor so why not focus on the area of the forward game where we do have superiority, namely power and ball carrying in the front five? A good question for Gatland and his minions.

At this juncture, anything we post that is deemed as "negative" towards the Lions will be seen as vitrol!

If we vent frustrations about the perceived poor handling of the Scottish contingent then we seen as being xenophobic

If we state that we are no longer interested in the Lions tour due to way this tour has been managed, then we are slammed as being "children in the huff"

At the end of the day it will be friday, but also, everyone is entitled to thier opinions. An opinion may be right or wrong but it is an opinion! People should just learn to respect that matter!

My opinion! The tour has been a farce. Gatland has been a farce. I dont give a monkeys who wins on sat. I wont be cheering on either team as I have no passion for either one. Unfortuantly the Lions concept has taken a large step down the pecking order in my list of priorites. I'd rather walk my dogs than sit and watch the selected team on sat trying to bosh into the ozzies all 80 mins long

sensisball wrote:I agree he has had a great tour, having IMO been lucky to get selected after a terrible club season,a decent international season before picking up a bad injury.
However the one thing that has held him back a bit is his lineout.
Yes i know he is great at the front, often making a mess of or stealing the opposition ball.

However as AWJ was shoed in at 4, to accomodate his selection alongside POC, Gatland decided to leave AWJ at 4 (his linout has been the weakest part of his game on tour) after POC's injury which left Gray competing with Evans and Parling for the 5 shirt.

Because Parling is a natural and good middle lineout operator, and is a club colleague of the first choice hooker, it made it almost impossible for Gray to get selected unless he played out of his skin as a middle jumper. To be fair to Gatland ( hard though it is!) they tried Gray in the middle of quite a few lineouts, in the mid week games, but he was unconvincing in that role. Having Hibberd and Best throwing will not have helped!

As the lineout has been poor, almost regardless of who is throwing i would have been tempted to move AWJ to his natural position at 5 to select Gray in his natural slot at 4. This would have added much more grunt to the scrum, put pressure on the front of the Aussie lineout and given us  a lot more carrying in the loose than Parling could provide.

Evans coming off the bench would have replaced power with power ( for Gray) or less power for more power ( for AWJ). Evans again usually plays 4 but is more adept as a middle jumper than Gray.
These seem like the obvoius choices given the players but as the head coach is Welsh and the forwards coach is English they were never going to happen. The linout has been poor so why not focus on the area of the forward game where we do have superiority, namely power and ball carrying in the front five? A good question for Gatland and his minions.

Ianto is a 5, don't think he's ever played 4.  

he was great in his last game, but he doesn't call the line-outs..so Parling gets ahead (he needs to front up too...but god help him with Hibbard throwing)

AWJ has 70 caps, is a lions captain and he can't run a lineout? Clearly the best the UK & Ireland has to offer!

 

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:AWJ has 70 caps, is a lions captain and he can't run a lineout? Clearly the best the UK & Ireland has to offer!

 

Don't worry wee Scotsman, you'll get your revenge against that pesky Gatland in the Six Nations. Oh.  

You have to be honest though someone who has 70 caps should be able to run a lineout? Surely?

The one thing Parling has over Gray imo is the lineout calling. With Hibbard starting and the form he's shown throughout the tour it completly negates that anyway!

I've lost count of the number of times on here I've said 'just because Gray isn't making line breaks it doesn't mean he isn't playing well'.

The man is an athletic freak with a huge work rate and a lot of athleticism and power - he's brought all that every time he's played.

And with regards to the lineout I'm not sure whether that's him not doing well in the lineout, or him just not getting the ball thrown to him - he hasn't been called upon much to jump.

I cannot wait for the 6N's when we get the chance to see again how mighty these Scottish players really are.We only have Gatland as coach and clearly he is pants.We are doomed!Doomed.Doomed!

I'm not saying Scotland will stuff Wales in the next 6N's

But I'd bloody love it if we did!

Gray has been playing poorly for Sale. He was outplayed by one of their youngsters and looked like he didn't care towards the back of the season. I'd expect a top player to shine in a weak side (a la Parisse) not look disinterested (unprofessional).

But that's irrelevant to the Lions as he's had his chance with Scotland this season and proved he still has it at a high level.

tigertattie wrote:I'm not saying Scotland will stuff Wales in the next 6N's

But I'd bloody love it if we did!

I hope just because you haven't beaten us for so long, as opposed to allegedly proving a point to Gatland or to faceless posters on a forum. Or is it just so you can come online and act just as badly as wums on here (some of whom might not even be Welsh)

Gray has been unlucky. AWJ was selected off his one good game and has been pretty solid throughout the series. Parling was probably also selected for the second test off the back of that Queensland Reds game where he made three steals. I would liked to have seen Gray in this week over Parling to really try and have a go at them in the scrum and for another carrier in the team.

I don't really understand some of the selections - why take players you aren't going to use? An extra fly-half and 12 would have been handy - too many of the subs are like for like replacements. Gatland is a one plan coach. If plan a. doesn't work, then try plan a.

I am one of the very few who rate Parling and the work he does, but if you're picking him for his lineout then using Hibberd - it's a pointless exercise and you might as well have the additional power of Gray.

Perhaps Gray is under-used at the lineout because nobody fancies trying to lift the behemoth?  

I hope he gets the opportunity to get on the field Saturday.