Richie Gray, best lock in the world?

You'll have to allow me to indulge in this one for a moment, after being involved in a cracking debate on another thread I got looking up some stats on Richie Gray. Now us Scots don't have a lot to be optimistic about at the moment, after another dismal 6N we do have some glimmers of light.

The biggest glimmer, litteraly has to be Richie Gray.

6ft 9 and 19st 12 he is a monster of a man. In the 6N thusfar he has these impressive statistics :

Meters Carried = 89
Clean breaks = 2
Defenders Beaten = 3
Tackles made = 15
Tackles Missed = 0
Lineouts Won = 11
Opposition Linouts spoiled / won = 4


All well and good, however take into account the other fantastic players in the 6N thusfar. Gray has made more clean breaks and carried the ball further than Jamie Roberts or George North and beaten more defenders than Roberts too.

His defensive record is phenomenal too winning or spoiling 4 opposition lineouts and makeing 15 tackles and missing none.

So, is he the best lock in the world? It has to be said even without my navy blue tinted glasses on I'm struggling to think of a better lock playing at the moment. Happy to hear from other poster as to their suggestions for the accolade of best lock in the world.

Oh and he's only 22.

He hasn't carried more than Roberts.

but youve played england so he's bound to have gd stats

Chunky Norwich wrote:He hasn't carried more than Roberts.

Correct original post ammended. My apologies.

*** EDIT *** He has carried further than Roberts!

Furthermore all those voting no..... it would be nice to know who you do think is the best lock in the world!

Great player. Tremendous prospect. A sure bet for the Lions squad next year I'd have thought.

Not th best lock in the world though.

B Thorne Probably. Or Bakkies.

wonder_man wrote:but youve played england so he's bound to have gd stats

Hilarious.

wonder_man wrote:but youve played england so he's bound to have gd stats

Not sure if he's the best in the world, but he's getting there. I agree with chunky in that there's a breed of older, SH players who may have a better all round game at the moment. Thorn definitely sticks out.

Regardless, Gray is a fantastic player, and his mobility for a man his size is unbelievable.

He-Man is most definitely one of, if not the best young locks around.

Alternatives:
NZ - with Thorne retired, maybe Whitelock up there?
Australia - Nathan Sharpe, but not consistent enough?
South Africa - with Matfield retired, don't think Botha would make it on his own
France - Nallet pushing on a bit, Pape looks v promising
England - Lawes has shown plenty of promise
Ireland - POC = ligind, but not quite at the height of his powers
Wales - Charteris, needs another top notch season to consolidate; AWJ, nah; Davies, tipper
Argentina - Albacete, possbily
...

So, yes Gray is

Yes, he is the best lock in the world.

Ian Jones, Victor Matfield and the like stand in awe of him.

I heard Andries Bekker was asked if he thought Gray was the best lock in the world, well he promptly fell off his chair.

Sorry about that, just had to get it out.

In all seriousness though, yes he was very good on the weekend, but what is it with you guys in the north. You hype players up long before they have an established career.

bluestonevedder wrote:

wonder_man wrote:but youve played england so he's bound to have gd stats

Hilarious.

Don't worry, chunder man has an inferiority complex.

biltongbek wrote:

In all seriousness though, yes he was very good on the weekend, but what is it with you guys in the north. You hype players up long before they have an established career.

I'm not sure if some people even watch rugby played South of the Equator! And in some cases, south of Dover.

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:
South Africa - with Matfield retired, don't think Botha would make it on his own

Andries Bekker. He has everything Matfield had, and has been the best lock in the Super XV for the past 2 years.

James Horwill

Chunky Norwich wrote:

biltongbek wrote:

In all seriousness though, yes he was very good on the weekend, but what is it with you guys in the north. You hype players up long before they have an established career.

I'm not sure if some people even watch rugby played South of the Equator! And in some cases, south of Dover.

Biltong, whilst we're on locks, what do you reckon to Rynhardt Elstadt? Could him and Bekker become the new Bakkies and Victor?

Chunky Norwich wrote:

biltongbek wrote:

In all seriousness though, yes he was very good on the weekend, but what is it with you guys in the north. You hype players up long before they have an established career.

I'm not sure if some people even watch rugby played South of the Equator! And in some cases, south of Dover.

Chunky don't even try to act as if you don't fall into that category

biltongbek wrote:

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:
South Africa - with Matfield retired, don't think Botha would make it on his own

Andries Bekker. He has everything Matfield had, and has been the best lock in the Super XV for the past 2 years.

Forgot about Bekker, biltong, he's defo in my top 3

Ozzy3213 wrote:James Horwill

Hmm, close, Pete, but I would still take Gray personally

Biltong
In fairness to Gray, he was outstanding last year as well. OK, so being an enormous blond haired monster and stand-out player amongst the mediocrity of the Scottish team does mean he shows up prominently in their games (in the same way that Parisse stands out for Italy), but there are few if any better playing at the moment. One guy I hope is fit for the Lions tour.

Ozzy, I am concerned about our locks at present.

The sharks has been dabbling with Jean Deysel at lock to see if he can bring some physicality to the tight five.

I have not seen enough from Elstadt to be convinced.

Bekker has line out prowess and great ball carrying ability with very good ball skills, so we would need an enforcer type to compliment him.

I personally think the position at this point in time is one of our biggest worries.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

Chunky don't even try to act as if you don't fall into that category

Righto.

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Alternatives:
NZ - with Thorne retired, maybe Whitelock up there?
Australia - Nathan Sharpe, but not consistent enough?
South Africa - with Matfield retired, don't think Botha would make it on his own
France - Nallet pushing on a bit, Pape looks v promising
England - Lawes has shown plenty of promise
Ireland - POC = ligind, but not quite at the height of his powers
Wales - Charteris, needs another top notch season to consolidate; AWJ, nah; Davies, tipper
Argentina - Albacete, possbily
...

So, yes Gray is

If someone has already articulated your feelings, why post anything else.

I would not take any of the names mentioned in this post over Richie Gray.

dummy_half wrote:Biltong
In fairness to Gray, he was outstanding last year as well. OK, so being an enormous blond haired monster and stand-out player amongst the mediocrity of the Scottish team does mean he shows up prominently in their games (in the same way that Parisse stands out for Italy), but there are few if any better playing at the moment. One guy I hope is fit for the Lions tour.

Dummy I was alittle facecious there, but after the match on the weekend, I mentioned him and denton as your two best players.

biltongbek wrote:Ozzy, I am concerned about our locks at present.

The sharks has been dabbling with Jean Deysel at lock to see if he can bring some physicality to the tight five.

I have not seen enough from Elstadt to be convinced.

Bekker has line out prowess and great ball carrying ability with very good ball skills, so we would need an enforcer type to compliment him.

I personally think the position at this point in time is one of our biggest worries.

Deysel is a bit small for the move to lock though, no? At 6 foot 3, he would be one of the smallest.

Is Meyer likely to try someone like Willem Alberts in the engine room with Bekker?

Asbo, I would take Horwill over Gray to be honest. Gray is up there, but there are a few that i would take ahead of him. People also seem to be forgetting about Ali Williams who is still a class act.

He's a great player with a brilliant future ahead of him, however he's nowhere near good enough in the lineout to be considered the best yet. One of the best in the loose though.

As for who I think is the best in the world - Sam Whitelock and Paul O'Connell. I think these guys do everything in the loose that Gray does and are markedly better in the lineout.

Ozzy3213 wrote:Is Meyer likely to try someone like Willem Alberts in the engine room with Bekker?

Asbo, I would take Horwill over Gray to be honest. Gray is up there, but there are a few that i would take ahead of him. People also seem to be forgetting about Ali Williams who is still a class act.

True that, was watching Ali W during the RWC, and altho he seemed as much of a nuisance as ever, he didn't seem to 'do' quite as much as he used to.

Ozzy3213 wrote:Is Meyer likely to try someone like Willem Alberts in the engine room with Bekker?

Asbo, I would take Horwill over Gray to be honest. Gray is up there, but there are a few that i would take ahead of him. People also seem to be forgetting about Ali Williams who is still a class act.

I was thinking about Alberts as an option whilst I was typing there. One person I would really like to see there is Schalk burger, he isn't too small and is already a line out option we use. If we use Alberts/JUan Smith at 7 and Brussow at six, burger might well be an option.

One thing that I read a few weeks ago was that Meyer wants to talk to Matfield, I hope he leaves the man be and doesn't hold on to him like PDV did to Smit.

Artful_Dodger wrote:As for who I think is the best in the world - Sam Whitelock and Paul O'Connell. I think these guys do everything in the loose that Gray does and are markedly better in the lineout.

Very good calls those, especially Whitelock.

Artful_Dodger wrote:As for who I think is the best in the world - Sam Whitelock and Paul O'Connell. I think these guys do everything in the loose that Gray does and are markedly better in the lineout.

O'Connell no. He is not nearly as good as Gray in the loose anymore. Whitelock I agree with however is on the same level.

Artful_Dodger wrote:As for who I think is the best in the world - Sam Whitelock and Paul O'Connell. I think these guys do everything in the loose that Gray does and are markedly better in the lineout.

Dodge, think you're being overly generous to POC there - he has in the past been better than Gray in the lineout, but not recently imo

biltongbek wrote:

Artful_Dodger wrote:As for who I think is the best in the world - Sam Whitelock and Paul O'Connell. I think these guys do everything in the loose that Gray does and are markedly better in the lineout.

Very good calls those, especially Whitelock.

O'Connel is nowhere near as strong or powerful. Fantastic player but nowhere near as physical.

My top 3 in no particular order: Sam Whitelock (NZ), Andries Bekker (RSA), Richie Gray (Sco)

biltongbek wrote:

Ozzy3213 wrote:Is Meyer likely to try someone like Willem Alberts in the engine room with Bekker?

Asbo, I would take Horwill over Gray to be honest. Gray is up there, but there are a few that i would take ahead of him. People also seem to be forgetting about Ali Williams who is still a class act.

I was thinking about Alberts as an option whilst I was typing there. One person I would really like to see there is Schalk burger, he isn't too small and is already a line out option we use. If we use Alberts/JUan Smith at 7 and Brussow at six, burger might well be an option.

One thing that I read a few weeks ago was that Meyer wants to talk to Matfield, I hope he leaves the man be and doesn't hold on to him like PDV did to Smit.

Whilst Matfield would clearly still be imperious in the lineout, South Africa need to move on and I think tempting him out of retirement would be a real backwards step for the Springboks. He would however be great to have on the coaching side working with the younger locks and passing on his experience.

For as good as O'Connell is...he is nowhere near as good as Gray is in the loose.....

Gray is right up there as one of the top locks....

GeordieFalcon wrote:For as good as O'Connell is...he is nowhere near as good as Gray is in the loose.....

Gray is right up there as one of the top locks....

To counter that though o'Connell brings Experience and leadership that Gray will get in time. But I agree O'Connell physically and in the loose has nothing on Gray.

O'Connell may not be quite as good as he was, still an immense player and what he has that Gray doesnt is leadership, he is still a player that an entire team can rally around. Granted some of that may be down to how young Gray is and he may develop into a great leader as well. I also feel that O'Connell systematically outplayed James Horwill in the Ireland vs Australia WC match and Ive seen Horwill name mentioned in this thread.

My top 3 would be; Whitelock , O'Connell and Bekker.

Whitelock, Lawes and Gray are the three young locks who really will be world class over the next number of years. Are there any other young second rows who are up there with these 3 guys? By young I mean below 25 or so.

Ozzy3213 wrote:

biltongbek wrote:

Ozzy3213 wrote:Is Meyer likely to try someone like Willem Alberts in the engine room with Bekker?

Asbo, I would take Horwill over Gray to be honest. Gray is up there, but there are a few that i would take ahead of him. People also seem to be forgetting about Ali Williams who is still a class act.

I was thinking about Alberts as an option whilst I was typing there. One person I would really like to see there is Schalk burger, he isn't too small and is already a line out option we use. If we use Alberts/JUan Smith at 7 and Brussow at six, burger might well be an option.

One thing that I read a few weeks ago was that Meyer wants to talk to Matfield, I hope he leaves the man be and doesn't hold on to him like PDV did to Smit.

Whilst Matfield would clearly still be imperious in the lineout, South Africa need to move on and I think tempting him out of retirement would be a real backwards step for the Springboks. He would however be great to have on the coaching side working with the younger locks and passing on his experience.

Yes, I agree with you. The problem is Matfield and Meyer has a very special bond. And Meyer will most definitely use Matfield in some form. The alternatives are poles apart though. If he uses Matfield as coach, great, if he uses Matfield as player and possibly captain, we will not change our gameplan and thus not progess.

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:My top 3 in no particular order: Sam Whitelock (NZ), Andries Bekker (RSA), Richie Gray (Sco)

I would think that is most likely close to the best, yes. Although I would like to see more of Gray, before I commit that in ink.

biltongbek wrote:

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:My top 3 in no particular order: Sam Whitelock (NZ), Andries Bekker (RSA), Richie Gray (Sco)

I would think that is most likely close to the best, yes. Although I would like to see more of Gray, before I commit that in ink.

But then if I reply to your post, we've got in ink and you can't go back on it! Unless you're going to blame that foxy secretary of yours

I typed......... uhh sorry my assistant typed that in pencil.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Whitelock, Lawes and Gray are the three young locks who really will be world class over the next number of years. Are there any other young second rows who are up there with these 3 guys? By young I mean below 25 or so.

Rory...i need to see a big improvement in Lawes. I just feel he is neither an enforcer type...nor a lineout guru...and this is a problem for me. Ive said before he needs to work his a$$ off on his lineout..and become a lineout leader. Then matched with his workrate..and tackling etc he could become an awesome player...

Lawes does have potential though. He puts in some huge hits and has a tremendous workrate. He is very athletic. I agree both he and Gray need to do more in the line-outs however.

The most exciting young 2nd row prospect in the world. Not the best in the world yet. He'll definitely be on the Lions tour and we'll see how he does in a much stronger team.

I have to say I'm very disappointed in his decision to go to Sale for less money that Glasgow were offering. Scottish rugby needs to hold onto stars like him. His logic was that Glasgow don't have much hope of going far in the HEC, so he thinks playing in the Premiership would increase his chances of being selected for the Lions.

a. He'll be selected for Lions anyway based on his great performances for Scotland
b. Why Sale?? There are far better teams in Europe who would have signed him I'm sure.
c. For top class Heineken Cup rugby he should have come to Leinster. The best team in Europe. And we need a good lock.