Is Groves v Froch on?

First topic message reminder :

Groves tweeted today that he is on Sky tomorrow to talk about his next fight. He stated that, "you all know who it is".

Is it Froch? IF so, are we excited? Although it would be soon for Groves he is fighting a 36 year old who has had at least 6 heavy duty fights. Plus, Groves has really pushed for it.

Hope it happens

They fought one in the U.S, now they should fight in the UK. Froch has travelled all over throughout his career and Ward never does. Froch is alot better in the UK in front of his fans. He has been on top of his game recently. I think Froch beats Ward in the UK and Ward should be willing to travel instead of always staying at home with the advantage. He hasnt tested himself like Froch has.

JabMachineMK2 wrote:Ward hasn't sorted out who number 1 is?

Then what the hell was Ward vs Froch for? Who won that? You know, the super 6?

Was it Ward?

Winchester probably thinks that froch was robbed by the judges cos it was in America.....

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

winchester wrote:Froch is one of the best fighters in the world right now so I think he beats Groves easily. Groves is one for the future all the same I just hope Froch doesnt give him such a beating it will ruin his confidence. It would have made more sense for Ward to come to Britain and settle who is the number 1 in the division and then had an old v new fight with Groves after. The number 1 in the division who is getting old against the upcoming challenger looking to take over.

Oh dear Ward hasn't settled who's number 1....

Looking for a bite are we.

if he doesn't know ward is the number 1 then he doesn't know anything about boxing.

It's Winchester. We've settled how much he knows about boxing ages ago.

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

JabMachineMK2 wrote:Ward hasn't sorted out who number 1 is?

Then what the hell was Ward vs Froch for? Who won that? You know, the super 6?

Was it Ward?

Winchester probably thinks that froch was robbed by the judges cos it was in America.....

It was because he fought in his own back yard, because Atlantic City is a short walk from LA.

Ward is numero uno. Obviously. Let's not bite chaps!

If Kessler never gave the Froch chance to face him in the Uk then you lot would be saying Kessler was better. Home advantage makes a big differance. Froch has been brilliant in the UK in fornt of big crowds. Ward has never tested himself in that environemnt. He should be willing to tavel to the UK and offer Froch a match there. If he was so much better he wouldnt have a problem but it seems everyone has to travel to face him. Froch fought only match in the Super 6 in the UK. Ward fought all of his in the U.S. Explain how that is fair?

I am actually going to agree with that last statement Winchester.

mobilemaster8 wrote:I am actually going to agree with that last statement Winchester.

Froch-Kessler = Contentious...

Ward-Froch = schooling..

I actually agree to a point that it would be nice to see Ward travel. Not particularly for any other reason that it is good for the sport that people outside the states get to see great fighters. However as Truss has alluded to did not really see anything in the fight with Ward to suggest the fight is different wherever the location . The Kessler fight was close enough to suggest home advantage could be the tipping point. Ward might be a bit closer but not sure the bump home advantage is enough to turn it round.

IM just going off the fact that ward has fought three times in the same amount of time Froch has fought 6 (including groves). IM also going off the fact that Ward never fought out his backyard let alone his country in the super 6 where as Abraham, Froch and Kessler all had to sacrifice as did Green.

Whether a schooling or not, on two of the cards it was 115-113 so i wouldn't class it as mayweather type schooling.

I may be bias, but Froch holds a couple of titles, has fought a lot more times and is more active, has been willing to travel and has avenged one of his two defeats and has made more money and has a bigger pulling power.

Ward may come to the UK and out point him, but on the flip side, like Winchester stated, its completely new territory for him and it would actually be interesting to see how he copes. That's if he plans on fighting anytime soon which i highly doubt.

Agree with the sentiment in that Rowley. Kessler won the first match, but not by a huge amount, so I always had Froch and Kessler about equal. I knew the last fight would be excellent, but went for a Froch UD from the start as I believed he had matured a little bit since the first fight plus had home town advantage. Ward is a class above both and I would love it if he came over here so we could watch him at work. Result wouldn't change though.

Rowley wrote:I actually agree to a point that it would be nice to see Ward travel. Not particularly for any other reason that it is good for the sport that people outside the states get to see great fighters. However as Truss has alluded to did not really see anything in the fight with Ward to suggest the fight is different wherever the location . The Kessler fight was close enough to suggest home advantage could be the tipping point. Ward might be a bit closer but not sure the bump home advantage is enough to turn it round.

 
So why doesnt Ward prove it? He is a boxer that wants all the advantages. I have more respect for Froch who has been willing to face challengers everywhere. Its common sense that fighting away from home in a tough crowd like the Froch crowd is will make things tougher but people act like it doesnt matter. Why not just have the winner of the Champions League play every match at home next year? Froch would have a great chance of beating Ward in the UK and he deserves to have the match there seeing as last time he went to the US.

mobilemaster8 wrote:IM just going off the fact that ward has fought three times in the same amount of time Froch has fought 6 (including groves). IM also going off the fact that Ward never fought out his backyard let alone his country  in the super 6 where as Abraham, Froch and Kessler all had to sacrifice as did Green.

US Geography not your strong point is it. Atlantic City is between 2,500 and 3,000 miles from LA. Not exactly backyard. I do take your point, but still believe Ward would win where ever they fought.

That's where Bruno went wrong...Should have fought Tyson over here..

winchester wrote:

Rowley wrote:I actually agree to a point that it would be nice to see Ward travel. Not particularly for any other reason that it is good for the sport that people outside the states get to see great fighters. However as Truss has alluded to did not really see anything in the fight with Ward to suggest the fight is different wherever the location . The Kessler fight was close enough to suggest home advantage could be the tipping point. Ward might be a bit closer but not sure the bump home advantage is enough to turn it round.

 
So why doesnt Ward prove it? He is a boxer that wants all the advantages. I have more respect for Froch who has been willing to face challengers everywhere. Its common sense that fighting away from home in a tough crowd like the Froch crowd is will make things tougher but people act like it doesnt matter. Why not just have the winner of the Champions League play every match at home next year? Froch would have a great chance of beating Ward in the UK and he deserves to have the match there seeing as last time he went to the US.

Yeah. How does Ward sleep at night knowing that people on a boxing forum doesn't believe he is number 1? Probably like a baby I'd think.

Okay that's fair enough, but you get my drift slightly.

You may be right, Ward maybe THAT good that no matter where he goes and fights, the result will be the same.

Massive fighters have proven similar over the years with Kessler undefeated coming to Wales, we had Froch go to see Ward and Kessler, we also had Mayweather in Gatti's garden near enough with a really bad crowd for "money".

We are yet to see this from Andre and id really like to see if he copes. If he does, ill openly admit i was wrong and will praise him to the rafters.

However, if he does make it across to the UK, Froch knocks him out.

can.worms.open.....

bhb001 wrote:

winchester wrote:

Rowley wrote:I actually agree to a point that it would be nice to see Ward travel. Not particularly for any other reason that it is good for the sport that people outside the states get to see great fighters. However as Truss has alluded to did not really see anything in the fight with Ward to suggest the fight is different wherever the location . The Kessler fight was close enough to suggest home advantage could be the tipping point. Ward might be a bit closer but not sure the bump home advantage is enough to turn it round.

 
So why doesnt Ward prove it? He is a boxer that wants all the advantages. I have more respect for Froch who has been willing to face challengers everywhere. Its common sense that fighting away from home in a tough crowd like the Froch crowd is will make things tougher but people act like it doesnt matter. Why not just have the winner of the Champions League play every match at home next year? Froch would have a great chance of beating Ward in the UK and he deserves to have the match there seeing as last time he went to the US.

Yeah. How does Ward sleep at night knowing that people on a boxing forum doesn't believe he is number 1? Probably like a baby I'd think.

The Klits are cowardly bums.....Ward is a ducker..Fury is the greatest ever....You not think this guy maybe perhaps.. wumming by any chance ??

I agree Truss, but i do also agree that Ward is over rated.

hate to admit it, but until i see him take a risk to travel, then in not buying it, especially with his inactivity

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

bhb001 wrote:

winchester wrote:

Rowley wrote:I actually agree to a point that it would be nice to see Ward travel. Not particularly for any other reason that it is good for the sport that people outside the states get to see great fighters. However as Truss has alluded to did not really see anything in the fight with Ward to suggest the fight is different wherever the location . The Kessler fight was close enough to suggest home advantage could be the tipping point. Ward might be a bit closer but not sure the bump home advantage is enough to turn it round.

 
So why doesnt Ward prove it? He is a boxer that wants all the advantages. I have more respect for Froch who has been willing to face challengers everywhere. Its common sense that fighting away from home in a tough crowd like the Froch crowd is will make things tougher but people act like it doesnt matter. Why not just have the winner of the Champions League play every match at home next year? Froch would have a great chance of beating Ward in the UK and he deserves to have the match there seeing as last time he went to the US.

Yeah. How does Ward sleep at night knowing that people on a boxing forum doesn't believe he is number 1? Probably like a baby I'd think.

The Klits are cowardly bums.....Ward is a ducker..Fury is the greatest ever....You not think this guy maybe perhaps.. wumming by any chance ??

Still at the trolling I see.

Ward is overrated when people suggest he's up with the best ever smw's. I think calzaghe, benn, eubank, toney and raj fix him comfortably but in stinkers the most part. The guy trades in logfests.

Ward does need to travel, not sure why people argue the point with this. Froch went over to the USA to fight him, Ward should return the favour. If he is that good then it shouldn't be an issue.

I personally hope he does refuse to fight in the UK, he is boring.

seanmichaels wrote:Ward is overrated when people suggest he's up with the best ever smw's. I think calzaghe, benn, eubank, toney and raj fix him comfortably but in stinkers the most part. The guy trades in logfests.

Not sure about Benn and Eubank, but I agree he is only the best around at the moment. He has to fight more often for us to really gauge how good he is.

Lumbering_Jack wrote:Ward does need to travel, not sure why people argue the point with this. Froch went over to the USA to fight him, Ward should return the favour. If he is that good then it shouldn't be an issue.

I personally hope he does refuse to fight in the UK, he is boring.

Ward doesn't have to prove anything..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

Lumbering_Jack wrote:Ward does need to travel, not sure why people argue the point with this. Froch went over to the USA to fight him, Ward should return the favour. If he is that good then it shouldn't be an issue.

I personally hope he does refuse to fight in the UK, he is boring.

Ward doesn't have to prove anything..

Exactly. Ward schooled froch, doesn't matter if it was in USA or the UK ward will always win.

Mayweather beat Hatton in the USA but no one is calling for a rematch in the UK.

There's no doubt ward is número Uno at 168 but that doesn't mean he shouldn't have to travel

It's different for him be the reciever of a really hostile crowd and quite frankly there isn't any other fights out there for him. Chavez is a bum, GGG hasn't got enough money behind him, Martinez doesn't want to move up, he won't fight Bhop or dirrel, bute, Dawson and Pascal are at a all time low

If anyone doesn't think that a hostile crowd can make a difference then your a fool. Ward won easily but if a couple rounds swung Froch's way then he would have won, it was close but clear, not a shutout

Alot of people on here dont seem to think home advantage makes a differance. Maybe they should ask Kessler.

WHU_Champo_League_in_7Yrs wrote:There's no doubt ward is número Uno at 168 but that doesn't mean he shouldn't have to travel

It's different for him be the reciever of a really hostile crowd and quite frankly there isn't any other fights out there for him. Chavez is a bum, GGG hasn't got enough money behind him, Martinez doesn't want to move up, he won't fight Bhop or dirrel, bute, Dawson and Pascal are at a all time low

If anyone doesn't think that a hostile crowd can make a difference then your a fool. Ward won easily but if a couple rounds swung Froch's way then he would have won, it was close but clear, not a shutout

I disagree because i think it was a complete shut out. The judges cards were close but anyone who watched the fight could see that froch looked very very very poor that night and ward looked very good.

Lets not forget that if they fight again in 2014 froch will be 37 and ward would be 29/30. Froch's chances of beating ward are very very small.

I don't think anyone would deny that home advantage can make the difference in some cases, but I don't think it's foolish to deduce that, in some others, it's unlikely to change anything.

Strictly speaking, if you go on what the judges came up with then yes, a two round swing would have given Froch a split decision win. But I think I'm right in saying that it's basically impossible to find any observer who thought that those two 115-113 cards were anything other than very, very generous to Froch on the night, and not really an accurate reflection of how things panned out. I'd probably go so far as to say that Froch, the twelfth aside, didn't win a single round clearly, whereas Ward was not only winning his rounds, but taking them pretty emphatically. Ward seemed to coast, or perhaps even tire, a little as he nursed his lead, but he never looked in any real danger at all and Froch was really just huffing and puffing his way to the odd round here and there in the final third of the fight.

I'm also mindful that, according to most evidence and sources, Ward was fighting with an injured hand from the mid-rounds onwards, and he still outclassed Carl. Given Froch's form since that loss, many people's margin of victory for Ward in that fight seem to have decreased retrospectively, but to me the word 'outclassed' still fits perfectly.

I appreciate that this is, to a large degree, a gut instinct statement, but Ward doesn't particularly strike me as someone who'd wilt under the pressure of a hostile crowd or be pushed off his game plan by it. Given how the first fight unfolded, I'm certainly more inclined to believe that this would be one of those cases in which the venue of the fight and / or the hostility of the crowd would both be irrelevant.

In the interests of fairness, Ward hasn't said he won't fight in the UK, either. He's just said that he wants Hearn to actually make him a proper, worthwhile offer to do so, rather than just keep bringing his name up and making snide remarks without ever actually contacting him over a fight.

Also needs adding Chris, Ward appeared to coast late on knowing he was the proverbial mile in front. I got the impression he had some in reserve had things been closer.

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

Lumbering_Jack wrote:Ward does need to travel, not sure why people argue the point with this. Froch went over to the USA to fight him, Ward should return the favour. If he is that good then it shouldn't be an issue.

I personally hope he does refuse to fight in the UK, he is boring.

Ward doesn't have to prove anything..

Exactly. Ward schooled froch, doesn't matter if it was in USA or the UK ward will always win.

Mayweather beat Hatton in the USA but no one is calling for a rematch in the UK.

Mayweather knocked Hatton out in the USA. Froch has went on to solidify himself as number 2 in the division with some excellent performances.

And Ward didn't school him. Beat him comfortably yes, but schooling, no.

Ward just has to wait Mayweather out to become p4p number 1...That in itself makes him a hot commodity...

Why risk being robbed over here....

winchester wrote:If Kessler never gave the Froch chance to face him in the Uk then you lot would be saying Kessler was better. Home advantage makes a big differance. Froch has been brilliant in the UK in fornt of big crowds. Ward has never tested himself in that environemnt. He should be willing to tavel to the UK and offer Froch a match there. If he was so much better he wouldnt have a problem but it seems everyone has to travel to face him. Froch fought only match in the Super 6 in the UK. Ward fought all of his in the U.S. Explain how that is fair?

I agree, while Ward is clearly a better boxer and the best in the division he has not tested him self on the road which can sometimes have allot of impact on a fight. That's not to say that Ward would not past the test, but it is a bit unfair when a fighter always has the comfort of fighting in his own country all the time.

Tested himself on the road ??
Did Leonard ?????...........Did Hearns ???........Did Joe Louis ?????....Has Mayweather ???

What a crock..

Ward has fough abroad before in st lucia and the cayman islands

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Tested himself on the road ??
Did Leonard ?????...........Did Hearns ???........Did Joe Louis ?????....Has Mayweather ???

What a crock..

mayweather is another one, why just because he has been great he does not have to prove him self on the road ... I think its a valid point, if you fight at home you have a home advantage for a number of reasons, simple as that.

Is Froch better in the USA or the UK?

Home advantage is massive in boxing.

For example Froch vs Kessler 2......

Home comforts, family and friends, crowd all for you, no travel lag etc etc

when he went to Denmark he had the cloud, lag, no family, hostile crowd.

it makes a huge difference.

I think both Froch - Kessler fights were close, but with clear winners in each case. It may have been home town advantage, but I think that the boxers have improved / declined between the two fights. But I am only talking about small changes here, with both boxers still world class and justifying their second and third rating. Not a RJJ type decline!!

It could also be argued that being on the road is an advantage. Glen Johnson and Sergio Martinez made their names boxing in other countries. Some people like it and some don't. Johnson and Martinez just two examples.

I remember people saying that Mayweather would struggle against Hatton as it'd be like an away fight for him and we all know how that went. Ward like Mayweather is just a fantastic boxer.

I some what agree that fighters prefer fighting abroad and on the road.

But until Ward actually does, we wont know.

One only has to look at football to see the advantage home crowds and comforts give you. It would be foolish to suggest otherwise.

one only has to look at the gulf of difference in talent and the comfort that gives you..

Lumbering_Jack wrote:One only has to look at football to see the advantage home crowds and comforts give you. It would be foolish to suggest otherwise.

I think that's quite an unfair comparison.

1. Football is team game and not individual sport
2. Some teams have better away home records than home records
3. Football does not go to points at the end of match on who deserved to win or not, a result is a result
4. If Froch v Groves for example is in London are we going to say Groves has home advantage as he's from London despite the fact that Froch sold the O2 London out for his last fight??? Because if you're arguing football as comparison then this is what you're saying

Pedro147 wrote:

Lumbering_Jack wrote:One only has to look at football to see the advantage home crowds and comforts give you. It would be foolish to suggest otherwise.

I think that's quite an unfair comparison.

1. Football is team game and not individual sport
2. Some teams have better away home records than home records
3. Football does not go to points at the end of match on who deserved to win or not, a result is a result
4. If Froch v Groves for example is in London are we going to say Groves has home advantage as he's from London despite the fact that Froch sold the O2 London out for his last fight??? Because if you're arguing football as comparison then this is what you're saying

Ward and Froch wasn't even close as well..........Froch nuthugger is Lumbering.

I'd like to know who the hell voted for Groves KO. Are you clinically insane? Froch has never, not once - been knocked out. He has fought at the top level, proven he has one of the best chins in boxing so who in the right mind would ever think that Groves would "knock him aaart"

Utter codwallop. Whoever voted that needs a re-evaluation of their presence on these boards.

Consensus is that Froch wins by KO - I see that. Either that or he wins on points. Groves is different from the man that took on Kenny Anderson, but his chin isn't exactly made of the same stuff Froch's is and although I'd like Groves to win because Froch irritates me, I just can't see past the inevitable.

Home advantage is a definate advantage. The extent of the part it plays can be debated and will vary on circumstances. I think the first Ward/Froch fight amongst other things is much stronger evidence than any speculation on the part home advantage might play. Froch was well beaten. He deserves a rematch though, and I think Hearn needs to make Ward a genuine serious offer to travel before Ward gets savaged. I actually do think the criticism stings Ward judging from his reaction but I also think he doesnt want to be bullied into not getting his full share. If he wanted to, he could not even entertain giving Froch a rematch given the first fight was decisive. But the fact he has been openly speaking about it and has not ruled out the UK means I think he is interested. Hearn is a money man who doesnt need Ward so that for me is the biggest issue. If they want Ward in the UK they might have to stump up a generous offer and that will test how serious they are. I think Ward has earned his status and the right to hold out for a good offer to come to the UK.

Going with Froch KO but wouldn't shocked at a Groves points win.

Groves looks very sharp but doesn't have the engine to stay on his toes for a full 12 rounds and by the end I see Froch catching him and forcing a stoppage.

It's crazy when you compare Degale's and Groves careers. A few years back Degale had the hype and Groves was merely 'the other guy'. Fast forward 2 years and Degale is fighting a nobody in front of 1,500 people at a shopping centre and Groves will be fighting for 2 legit straps at a sold out venue!

Degale must be in despair!