Diet is 90% of your results: Surely the biggest Myth of them all?

One of my pet gripes is senseles BS I hear in the gym. One which seems to have been repeated so often is that Diet is even more important than your actual exercise. There are two types of people who normally spew this garbage. 1) Stickmen who Imo are too lazy to push their bodies and now buy this hogwash
2) The Monsters who for some reason dont see the iron-y of claiming diet is more important, while benching 400lbs.

Now, look, I dont deny that diet is incredibly important. But I have never seen anyone legitimately claim that they got where they got by purely eating right. I have however seen Big guys (some clean, some...well) who have gotten huge with an awful diet by simply out working their diet, i.e compensating for their horrid diet by Working harder. Thoughts?

Depends what you want, Kingraf.

I look to stay athletic and lean year round, so arguably diet is every bit as important as the workout. They co-exist, of course, whereby you will only get the results you want if you pay due attention to both.

Since I started putting plenty more road miles in in preparation for Tough Mudder which is coming up in September, I've noticed a slight loss of muscle mass in my arms/shoulders, so what I'm doing now is hoping that my 2/3 gym visits per week are enough to maintain the size I'm currently at, as a means of counter-balancing the 2/3 cardio session I'm putting in. I suppose that could be an example where diet isn't so important.

Most of the time, I imagine diet only becomes vitally important if you're looking for abs...

It is BS..........Because whilst diet is important..........Form!!!, hard work and rest are just as important..

Go to a gym and see how many people do things right..

Form is a big one Truss, you're right.
 
But also, choosing the right exercises to do. So often you see new gym-goers who are looking to put on size, wasting time with sculpting exercises like wrist curls, or working the abductors. They should just concentrate on the fundamental basics of pushing and pulling to start. Shoulder press, bench press, squat, and deadlift. Hammer those and build the foundation.

It depends on what your goals are.
If you're just looking to lose weight than you can achieve your results simply through diet - with no training whatsoever.
If you're looking to increase muscle/strength/conditioning then training is obviously the top priority.
The majority of men strive for a Men's Health type of physique. For this type of build, I'd argue that training and dieting are both equally crucial. Training is required for the muscle, while diet is required to achieve sub 8% bodyfat.
I think the reason why some may stress the importence of diet is because it usually is the more neglected area.

Whilst 90% is too high...Its still hugely important.

I have a high intensity training week...6 days a week
2 x weights a week (Olympic lift,compounds)
2 x Boxing
2 x Bodyweight(pull ups,handstand press ups etc), stair work, circuit days etc.

I burn so many calories through a week i need a big healthy diet to keep my engine going. I eat lots of steak, chicken etc. There is a hugely noticeable difference if i dont eat enough...or eat crap food.

I think I'm the same, GF, though not quite to the same extent since I stopped boxing twice a week.

I'm now something along the lines of 1 x 45 mins squash, 1 x 5-7 mile run, 2-3 x weights, 1 x 3 mile run.

I'd love to know exactly what I should be eating and when, but that's probably why nutritionists are expensive...what I do eat seems to work fine, but there's always room for improvement.

Fury....

Steak, steak then when you've finished, crank in some more steak  

People throw out statements all the time in bodybuilding..

"You're a Cat If you don't squat"............."Machines are no good"

As for diet being 90%.

So many variables...........

Do you overtrain?? Do you undertrain ??.........Do you use good form ??...Do you sleep enough???

Bit like saying I think Meg Ryan is 83.67 % fit..

Sleep is probably as important as exercise. I used to go to a school that was very reliant on the success of its sports for funding.... Thus we had a nutritionist (though they always said it was to prepare us for the "rigors of professional sport"), a pretty decent gym (This was more a world cup legacy, as one of the teams used our school as a facility). And he always did say that if you miss out on sleep you're going to injure yourself.

When I was in school, first team point guard in basketball, First team cricket. First team centre in rugby, first team tennis. The nutritionist was pretty clear about the importance of diet... Needed I was 5'11 185lbs, Needed 200g of protein during rugby season, but only about 100g every other season. Needed a pretty high calorie diet as well. I never had a fatigue related injury, so I can't doubt the veracity of his method.

Right now though, I lift just for the sake of lifting, as a result I've gained 10lbs this year. I eat Nando's three times a week, Pizza quite often, have developed a Snickers habit, and I don't look much worse than I did a year ago. And that's just because my cardiovascular is less intense than it use to be.

Sleep is probably as important as exercise. I used to go to a school that was very reliant on the success of its sports for funding.... Thus we had a nutritionist (though they always said it was to prepare us for the "rigors of professional sport"), a pretty decent gym (This was more a world cup legacy, as one of the teams used our school as a facility). And he always did say that if you miss out on sleep you're going to injure yourself.

When I was in school, first team point guard in basketball, First team cricket. First team centre in rugby, first team tennis. The nutritionist was pretty clear about the importance of diet... Needed I was 5'11 185lbs, Needed 200g of protein during rugby season, but only about 100g every other season. Needed a pretty high calorie diet as well. I never had a fatigue related injury, so I can't doubt the veracity of his method.

Right now though, I lift just for the sake of lifting, as a result I've gained 10lbs this year. I eat Nando's three times a week, Pizza quite often, have developed a Snickers habit, and I don't look much worse than I did a year ago. And that's just because my cardiovascular is less intense than it use to be. As a result I am less than convinced about diet. I don't doubt its important, I just don't think it can make up for a bad workout program.

i think, this is truly dependant on what your goals are. for me, I usually hear the ratio of 80% diet. however, if you have real goals to hit, you just need 100% commitment to diet, training and getting enough rest. diet is as critical as all three factors if you goal is around optimisiation of what you want to get out of the gym and improving strength and body composition overall.

Since new year I have lost just under 15kg, through following a strict training and diet plan. At points I had a take away or meal out and my weight loss for those weeks were lower than the weeks I stuck directly to the plan.

I was in a calorie deficit of around 500 a day, so 3500 a week. Eating a takeaway or meal out could be upwards of 2000 calories in one meal.

Eating to your goals is really important, you aren't going to lose weight without being in a calorie deficit (through diet or exercise) and you aren't going to gain weight without being in a calorie surplus.

Sam wrote:Since new year I have lost just under 15kg, through following a strict training and diet plan. At points I had a take away or meal out and my weight loss for those weeks were lower than the weeks I stuck directly to the plan.

I was in a calorie deficit of around 500 a day, so 3500 a week. Eating a takeaway or meal out could be upwards of 2000 calories in one meal.

Eating to your goals is really important, you aren't going to lose weight without being in a calorie deficit (through diet or exercise) and you aren't going to gain weight without being in a calorie surplus.

Well you could eat 2500 calories a day and still lose weight if you went running for 30 minutes and did some press ups etc.

Also you could eat 2000 calories a day and put on weight if you just stayed in bed all day doing nothing.

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

Sam wrote:Since new year I have lost just under 15kg, through following a strict training and diet plan. At points I had a take away or meal out and my weight loss for those weeks were lower than the weeks I stuck directly to the plan.

I was in a calorie deficit of around 500 a day, so 3500 a week. Eating a takeaway or meal out could be upwards of 2000 calories in one meal.

Eating to your goals is really important, you aren't going to lose weight without being in a calorie deficit (through diet or exercise) and you aren't going to gain weight without being in a calorie surplus.

Well you could eat 2500 calories a day and still lose weight if you went running for 30 minutes and did some press ups etc.

Also you could eat 2000 calories a day and put on weight if you just stayed in bed all day doing nothing.

That's why I said: "you aren't going to lose weight without being in a calorie deficit (through diet or exercise) and you aren't going to gain weight without being in a calorie surplus."
The amount of calories required for each depends on the individual.

Diet and training are equally important. One without the other is pointless. If you're not getting gains out if your training look at your diet and I guarantee it's wrong at some point.

Not just the number of calories consumed though, your macro nutrients need to be spot on when you're training hard or else you'll still plateau. Likewise you need to supplement correctly.

bluestonevedder wrote:Form is a big one Truss, you're right.
 
But also, choosing the right exercises to do. So often you see new gym-goers who are looking to put on size, wasting time with sculpting exercises like wrist curls, or working the abductors. They should just concentrate on the fundamental basics of pushing and pulling to start. Shoulder press, bench press, squat, and deadlift. Hammer those and build the foundation.

THIS! If you're doing any isolation work before mastering the squat, deadlift and press then you are always going to struggle for gains. Far too many Gym newbies (usually lads) go straight for the bicep curl followed by forearm work. This. Is. Wrong!

The most important thing is to train with intensity. Shocking the body and making it adapt and change.

Food, protein, carbs and fat are needed to fuel the workouts and aid recovery. Some say there is no such thing as over training just under eating. I don't fully agree with that but understand the sentiment.


Find out how many calories you need for maintenance by counting your calories for a few weeks. Then work out the percentage split of carbs/ protein/ fat you have been eating. Experiment with the percentages from there. For weightlifting aim for 0.5 to 1.0 grams of protein per day per lb of bodyweight.

The hardest part is being consistent in every thing you do. This is terminally boring for me but it gets the best results.

Diet might not be 90%, but it is definitely more than 50%.

Unless you use high doses of tren. If you use a lot of tren and maybe some hgh, you could eat what you want. Especially if you are already lean to begin with.

How do I know? I have friends that compete in bodybuilding.

The most important bit is the training.....Without exercising the muscles everything else is irrelevant...

As long as you get enough calories diet isn't that important..The less frequent the workouts the more important it is...

My advice don't get too hung up on a strict diet...Life and bodybuilding should be fun.

I gain fat/size easy Truss. I need to be careful with my nutrition. I try to eat clean about 90-95% of the time when I'm on a cut, or trying to maintain.

I enjoy your advice. It is nice to hear from someone, who has been training as long as yourself. Even if our methods/goals are different, you can always pick up good tips.

I would really like to get this section going.

Not many people have the guts..desire and dedication to push themselves to the limit workout to workout....

Good physiques require hard work...

Hence the reason while diet is important... training is by far the most important piece in any jigsaw...

Diet doesn't bring sweat and tears and as long as you eat crap in moderation the workouts will take care of excesses..

I agree man. I train hard. I guess you do as well. I love training, it is either in you, or not.

People think lifting weights/bodybuilding is easy. It isn't. Whenever you have problems, or have bad days and still train. That takes serious dedication.

I don't care if someone bodybuilds, powerlifts, takes gear, or is natural. It takes time and dedication to reach ones goals.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Not many people have the guts..desire and dedication to push themselves to the limit workout to workout....

Good physiques require hard work...

Hence the reason while diet is important... training is by far the most important piece in any jigsaw...

Diet doesn't bring sweat and tears and as long as you eat crap in moderation the workouts will take care of excesses..

And thats the key word, moderation. To many people think they can eat a lot of rubbish and if they train hard it'll all be ok. Big mistake. I watched a video a few months back entitled 'you cant run off a bad diet'. If you are training like the champ and not getting the results you want or you're packing on the flab on your belly & ass then check your diet. A cheat day & a cheat meal per week is ok but don't make it the norm.

Drug use is also important too. People that spend more time jabbing their glutes,  find they can cheat their diets more.

sohotnot wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Not many people have the guts..desire and dedication to push themselves to the limit workout to workout....

Good physiques require hard work...

Hence the reason while diet is important... training is by far the most important piece in any jigsaw...

Diet doesn't bring sweat and tears and as long as you eat crap in moderation the workouts will take care of excesses..

And thats the key word, moderation. To many people think they can eat a lot of rubbish and if they train hard it'll all be ok. Big mistake. I watched a video a few months back entitled 'you cant run off a bad diet'. If you are training like the champ and not getting the results you want or you're packing on the flab on your belly & ass then check your diet. A cheat day & a cheat meal per week is ok but don't make it the norm.

How boring if you had one cheat meal a week....You're supposed to enjoy the adventure..

As for jabbing in butt's etc...People that have never used steroids over inflate their importance...

It's a good way to bemoan their lack of progress.

Truss my training buddies were average naturally. Small and no strength. They took gear, upped the intensity and now they are animals.

One guy couldn't use 35 naturally. He now reps 65 dumbbells like nothing and deadlifts over 300. Also they are huge and ripped. To be fair one of the guys had decent shape before.

you still have to train hard to get benefit, but they are not the icing on the cake.

If you're not as big and strong as these guys, perhaps you use moderate doses and smaller stacks.

You might not abuse gear, but plenty do. I have seen loads of guys change their physiques very quickly. On the flip side, I have also seen many a guy do little, because he doesn't have the desire or fundamental's.

Anyway users justify their gains and nattys will cry out their weakness.

You probably think they do little. I believe they do loads. When I train in the same gym as guys and beat them in every exercise. Then they use gear and it is me left in the shadows. There must be something happening.

My progress is fine. If I was mentally weak, I would of used already.

Also just to add, I have f..k all against gear. Just unfortunately I have seen many big guys look down on smaller guys. And bitch about them being fat or thin and weak. I would never ridicule anyone trying to better themselves, natural or otherwise.

"Many big guys"....I know barely five guys in the gym I go to...and a similar amount of ladies....I think you want to focus on what you're doing and avoid eves dropping in on conversations...

Very few big bodybuilders in my time look down on smaller guys because most have been one and know how hard the journey is...Most will offer advice if necessary...

I've had maybe five guys snap at me in nearly 30 years training at 15 or so gyms...and I just smile and walk away as they don't mean anything to me...

If most of the guys you know are arrogant...Then you're hanging around the wrong sort..

My advice is the advice I give my oldest...Don't get bothered by people you're not bothered about !!....and don't use false stereotypes..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

sohotnot wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Not many people have the guts..desire and dedication to push themselves to the limit workout to workout....

Good physiques require hard work...

Hence the reason while diet is important... training is by far the most important piece in any jigsaw...

Diet doesn't bring sweat and tears and as long as you eat crap in moderation the workouts will take care of excesses..

And thats the key word, moderation. To many people think they can eat a lot of rubbish and if they train hard it'll all be ok. Big mistake. I watched a video a few months back entitled 'you cant run off a bad diet'. If you are training like the champ and not getting the results you want or you're packing on the flab on your belly & ass then check your diet. A cheat day & a cheat meal per week is ok but don't make it the norm.

How boring if you had one cheat meal a week....You're supposed to enjoy the adventure..

As for jabbing in butt's etc...People that have never used steroids over inflate their importance...

It's a good way to bemoan their lack of progress.

I did actually say a cheat day & a cheat meal per week, so for example on Sunday eat what the hell you like morning, noon & night then Thursday night go to a restaurant or order a take away. If you are happy with the way you look with a less than strict diet then cool, but there are a lot of people out there trying to shift the fat but cant due to eating to much crap. Cut out the chocolate & deserts, the party foods, the deep fried foods and the booze you can lose a lot without changing your routine. Alternately if you do want to eat a lot of the aforementioned then its got to fall into 'if it fits my macros', that calorie laden desert or the big chocolate bar becomes your meal.

Eating clean doesn't have to be boring or a punishment like Hatton's weight cut for fights, just eating good quality foods with plenty of fresh fruit & vegetables. Whats boring about a a nice piece of fish, a decent steak or a marinated chicken fillet?

BTW enjoyed a chicken doner with naan bread after a few beers last night, felt it this morning though

The happiest bodybuilders are the ones that switch off outside the gym and aren't engulfed in all the 1g of protein per body part and eating every three hours crap..Must do exercises I don't like etc...Must be in bed by...

.Alcohol is a test killer but if you want something nice to eat...eat it !!..

Life is supposed to be fun..

If you train hard enough you'll kill your excesses..

If you believed everything you had to do for a great body you'd never start bodybuilding.....

Focus in the gym...eat well...and forget about the gym till you go again..

Longevity - Enjoyment..

Fair play Truss. You don't bull sh1t.

Good advice.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:The happiest bodybuilders are the ones that switch off outside the gym and aren't engulfed in all the 1g of protein per body part and eating every three hours crap..Must do exercises I don't like etc...Must be in bed by...

.Alcohol is a test killer but if you want something nice to eat...eat it !!..

Life is supposed to be fun..

If you train hard enough you'll kill your excesses..

If you believed everything you had to do for a great body you'd never start bodybuilding.....

Focus in the gym...eat well...and forget about the gym till you go again..

Longevity - Enjoyment..

Where have I not said this? And is all nice food junk & all healthy food bland or horrible?

Not if you are only about excess thats why people get out of shape, again moderation.

I agree......and as I have been saying eat well just don't put crap in your body consistently.

AdamT wrote:Fair play Truss. You don't bull sh1t.

Good advice.

Are you training hard enough to kill your excesses? From a guy who was looking to get down to 13 but went up to 16.5 I'd definitely look at your diet. As you said you put on fat quite easily and clean eating will help with reducing that.

I'm not that fat mate. Anyway I am looking to get down for a comp.

Do you know anything about natural strength training? Please advice me.

I am definitely not looking at 13 anymore. I'd look like a wreck.

Also not to be cheeky, I have lost a stone since Christmas. I was 17'4 Christmas morning.

Also last year I lost over 20 pounds in 8 weeks for a competition.

I know how to diet. If training is hard and cardio is added, you only need to eat clean about 70-75% of time. As the weight and body fat drops, obviously the diet needs to be tightened more. However I don't want to be a skinny guy with abs. Been there before. It's no different that a fat bird with big baps.

AdamT wrote:Also not to be cheeky, I have lost a stone since  Christmas. I was 17'4 Christmas morning.

Also last year I lost over 20 pounds in 8 weeks for a competition.

I know how to diet. If training is hard and cardio is added, you only need to eat clean about 70-75% of time. As the weight and body fat drops, obviously the diet needs to be tightened more. However I don't want to be a skinny guy with abs. Been there before. It's no different that a fat bird with big baps.

Hahahaha

But seriously I apologize if I caused any offence, that was definitely not the intention. when reading through replies on the various topics it can seem there are some mixed messages when you read between the lines. I was a little confused or surprised at the weight gain in 7 months especially with the debate on the boxing forum with regards to David Haye's weight/muscle gain.

I take it then that your weight loss for competitions is along the lines of a boxer making weight? Is it mostly water and then you rehydrate? How long before the event is the weigh in?

My comments & debate with Truss has been based on my own experiences with fat loss and a clean diet when my training & lifestyle was not changed. I have also seen it with others. There is always the calories in calories out approach but we all get the wake up call when we actually look at what we eat and why we can't seem to shift the fat. Eating fairly healthy but then adding chocolate or a desert, eating what the hell we like at the weekend and doing 5 days calories in the weekend. I personally like what is considered healthy or clean foods, eating processed and junk foods really don't make me feel good if I overdo it and in my case that doesn't have to be that much. I really do believe eating a diet high in fresh fruits and vegetables, good quality real meat & fish and rice is the way to go. If I start eating pastry snacks, ready meals etc I fart a lot which isn't really normal.

With regards to training tips.........lift heavy

I was low carbs that day. haha

I use a carb cycling approach when cutting. Eat low carbs on off days and cardio days. On the 3 weightlifting days, I eat more carbs.