what we want to see from the irish team and players this coming season

First topic message reminder :

There are i suppose 3 areas (if you feel more let me know)

1 Management
I think we are all excited about Schmidt but i think the whole management team needs to show that they can bring a joined up thinking and balance to the team.
I think by Aus we would hope that Ireland will do as well as Wales did last year but i would expect one win.

2 Team
I think we are close but i want to see two international standard players (or as close as we can) in each position, and probably 3 for each front row and half backs.  But i also want them to slot in seamlessly.  They should be able to do this as generally the training camps are for this reason.

3 Players
There are many players that we have high hopes for.  Here are just a few of mine but there are loads to mention.
Henshaw and Marmion - i would like them to shine a bit more in the HC stage
JJ and Archer - get more time in the big games for Munster.
Madigan and Jackson - would like to see of them get a sizeable amount of game time in the AIs and 6N.  I know its horrible to say but if sexton was not avaible for the 6N it would give these two players a good run.  I also want to see them take a big role in dictating their team's play.

Sin é wrote:

Scrumdown wrote:There appears to be a lot of clowns coming through the irish academy system at the moment which is in direct contrast to the uber professional nature of those coming through the welsh system.  

The IRFU and schmidt need to get on top of this sooner rather than later.  

Did Cuthbert & Halpenny go through the Welsh system?  

Wales just has more places in their academies due to having to raid them each year due to player drain.

Our academies can't be doing to bad as they do well in the B&I cup.

Sin é wrote:

Scrumdown wrote:There appears to be a lot of clowns coming through the irish academy system at the moment which is in direct contrast to the uber professional nature of those coming through the welsh system.  

The IRFU and schmidt need to get on top of this sooner rather than later.  

Did Cuthbert & Halpenny go through the Welsh system?  

Halfpenny was part of the ospreys academy and signed up by the blues. Cuthbert was not part of the academy system as he only started playing rugby when he went to uni in cardiff. he's a bit of a one off.

warburton, faletau, north, lydiate, roberts, davies, wyn jones, all academy products and the majority of the welsh squad under 27.

Scrumdown wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Scrumdown wrote:There appears to be a lot of clowns coming through the irish academy system at the moment which is in direct contrast to the uber professional nature of those coming through the welsh system.  

The IRFU and schmidt need to get on top of this sooner rather than later.  

Did Cuthbert & Halpenny go through the Welsh system?  

Halfpenny was part of the ospreys academy and signed up by the blues. Cuthbert was not part of the academy system as he only started playing rugby when he went to uni in cardiff. he's a bit of a one off.

warburton, faletau, north, lydiate, roberts, davies, wyn jones, all academy products and the majority of the welsh squad under 27.

Didn't know halfpenny was from Os unlike them to leave talent go.

Scrumdown wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Scrumdown wrote:There appears to be a lot of clowns coming through the irish academy system at the moment which is in direct contrast to the uber professional nature of those coming through the welsh system.  

The IRFU and schmidt need to get on top of this sooner rather than later.  

Did Cuthbert & Halpenny go through the Welsh system?  

Halfpenny was part of the ospreys academy and signed up by the blues. Cuthbert was not part of the academy system as he only started playing rugby when he went to uni in cardiff. he's a bit of a one off.

warburton, faletau, north, lydiate, roberts, davies, wyn jones, all academy products and the majority of the welsh squad under 27.

Ah, that explains Cuthbert taking off with the Irish boys for his holidays - he didn't go to a Welsh academy. I hope they didn't lead Halfpenny astray in the US  

Feckless Rogue wrote:I agree I'd like to see Zebo at 15 ahead of Kearney. And want Earls on the left wing. Remember he's a lethal finisher on the wing.

What about Payne? Won't he be Irish qualfied in the next year or so!

Earls will not end up on the wing - he will be our next outside centre.

Thomond wrote:A lot? Don't know where you're getting that information or belief to be honest. A few bad apples will sour the perception of all though rightly or wrongly.

Not even bad apples really, just young eejit men acting like young eejit men when they've had a drink. Need to grow up and be more mature off the field- yes. Is it a major issue? No.

Thomond wrote:It would be a Corkonian winger but legally we're not allowed  name him.

I'd be more inclined to think that the Irish US Marine from Cork got peed off because the Irish winger was getting too much attention from his female friends. The Marine sounds like a complete plonker. As for Marines - watch this video to see how the proud possessor of a Purple Heart can behave. The person videoing this in the back of the car is ex-marines who is paralysed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rym5unx0ZCo

Big question for the ulster lads:

What is going to be your situation next year regarding the 13 shirt?
Cave owns it currently. But will they move olding in to 13 with Luke "ridiculously talented" Marshall back? Will they realise they have 4 outstanding back 3 players and move Bowe/Payne to 13?

What will the orders be from lansdowne road?

Either way I can see the next Irish 13 being an ulsterman. Just not sure which one yet. I'd prefer Payne myself, seeing him at 13 for the blues is like watching magic.

I'd say if there's no unwelcome meddling from the IRFU Darren Cave will stay first choice barring injury or loss of form. He's the best outside centre in the squad still. I would definitely put my money on him keeping the shirt.

But Mark Anscombe is always open to picking someone else if they can prove themselves, so I wouldn't rule out Olding, Farrell or Marshall. I would rule out Bowe or Payne though. 4 guys in 3 positions isn't that much when you consider the sheer number of fixtures we have in the season now. Squad rotation means they will all get significant gametime.

There is a discussion on that very topic on the Uafc site pete and it seems there isn't a consensus. I only skimmed the discussion but the answer is I don't know. I think Schmidt will be keen to go with Marshall at 12 as D'arce's replacement as he can truck up bad ball which the latter did so well for Leinster. Olding doesn't offer that.

I am a big fan if cave but if Olding can shift out a place and we can maintain our defensive strength I would love to see Marshall/Olding as our centre pairing as Olding would be massively threatening in the extra space and he has the speed and step to be a serious player there.

I'm not even taking into account Farrell yet as he is only back but that will be another head scratcher if he delivers.

Sin é wrote:

Thomond wrote:It would be a Corkonian winger but legally we're not allowed  name him.

I'd be more inclined to think that the Irish US Marine from Cork got peed off because the Irish winger was getting too much attention from his female friends. The Marine sounds like a complete plonker. As for Marines - watch this video to see how the proud possessor of a Purple Heart can behave. The person videoing this in the back of the car is ex-marines who is paralysed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rym5unx0ZCo

I have met some incredibly arrogant US marines myself. One guy I knew used to love getting into fights and would always boast about his "licence to kill" and how he would get away with it if he had to beat some to a pulp. Grade A tw@t.

I find the Cork winger stories hard to believe because he seems a nice guy and it is the suin which is bog roll.

I must admit that I can see the Irish management meddling in this one and don't blame them for it.

For all his solidity for ulster cave has never looked international class in my eyes. I really like him, he is smart, tough, picks great lines and rarely makes a mistake but firstly I don't think he would suit Ireland and secondly I don't think he is good enough.

Earls I would consider a bad international centre and a potentially very good international winger. Despite earls getting his game at 13 this year coming (if he holds off LLL) I don't think he is even nearly the answer for Ireland (not sure about munster) at 13

Leinster have got nobody other than Fitzgerald who has a lot to prove and will get little time at 13 this year I'd say.

Connacht have griffin who seems to have stalled a bit.

In ulster there is Payne, Bowe and olding. I'd love one of them and they are potentially better than cave. Could be pretty interesting I think as I wouldn't object to the irfu having a word.

The number 13 shirt is wide open at the moment. Ulster have an abundance of riches there. Joe Schmidt will have options and maybe have some ideas of his own on what he wants there. I'm looking forward to seeing hoe Olding ad Farrell get on this coming season. If Gatland was in charge of Ireland Chris Farrell would be picked. At least Ireland will have the options of some big centers in the next season or two.

Yeah prof it's great to at least have that option now! When you include Bowe or Payne in to the mix as well we could have a very powerful and yet silky centre pairing.

Imagine by 2015/16 we could have

Marmion-sexton
Marshall-Payne
Gilroy-zebo-Bowe

That's before you get in to any other up and coming lads.
I'm really excited to see what Joe does and even if he picks earls I'd be confident that Joe can help/guide/work a gameplan around him

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:In ulster there is Payne, Bowe and olding. I'd love one of them and they are potentially better than cave. Could be pretty interesting I think as I wouldn't object to the irfu having a word.

I would. We have to make the decision which is best for Ulster. If any of those guys are better outside centres than Cave they will overtake him naturally. If they can't get ahead of Cave at club level- who people see as not being good enough- then they can't be ahead of him in the international pecking order.

Truth is, all three of those players are better in different positions.

Interesting news re. forwards coach too;

http://brendanfanningrugby.wordpress.com/2013/07/31/plumtree-set-to-coach-ireland-pack/

Brendan Fanning was as good as his word- John Plumtree has been officially appointed as Forwards Coach.

http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/29545.php

A very good appointment in my view.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Yeah prof it's great to at least have that option now! When you include Bowe or Payne in to the mix as well we could have a very powerful and yet silky centre pairing.

Imagine by 2015/16 we could have

Marmion-sexton
Marshall-Payne
Gilroy-zebo-Bowe

That's before you get in to any other up and coming lads.
I'm really excited to see what Joe does and even if he picks earls I'd be confident that Joe can help/guide/work a gameplan around him

Marmion - you expect someone who hasn't even been capped yet (even though he toured Canada) to have leap frogged a guy who is 2 years older him who was a test player on the Lions this year?

Marshall could be - but he will have to sort out the frequency of his head injuries. Watching Paddy Wallace too much.

Cave just signed a new 2 year contract with Ulster - considering he really doesn't cover any other position, that is an awful waste of money from Ulster Rugby if they are going to move either one of Payne or a 29 year old Bowe there.

Cave started at 13 on the Nth American Tour, so it looks like any of the other potential 13s are a bit behind yet as that would have been an ideal opportunity to give them a go.

Notch wrote:Brendan Fanning was as good as his word- John Plumtree has been officially appointed as Forwards Coach.

http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/29545.php

A very good appointment in my view.

Interesting apointment. Would be interested as to what Faa and Biltong think of this fellow.

Looks a good signing. Seems pretty successful in everything he's touched.

Still need a scrum and kicking coach and we definitely aren't gonna get a 2 in 1 on that front.

Back to the 13 debate: I think the irfu's primary interest is Ireland rather than ulster an if they feel that Payne or Bowe "could" be better that cave then try should be given a go. It is the call I would make.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Back to the 13 debate: I think the irfu's primary interest is Ireland rather than ulster an if they feel that Payne or Bowe "could" be better that cave then try should be given a go. It is the call I would make.

But thats just it. If the coach who works with Cave every day thinks he's a better outside centre than the Ireland coaches, his opinion should be respected. He knows the player best and he knows who will fit in with his gameplan best. Let him get on with coaching and selecting his team and leave the national coaches to worry about their own jobs. A horse is a camel designed by committee and it's impossible to coach when you have guys looking over your shoulder telling you who you need to pick. We have a situation where the IRFU get involved in provincial team selection without respecting the opinions of the coaches at the provinces and I personally think it's very dangerous.

The provincial coaches have a specific gameplan and will pick the best player who suits that. If thats Cave then the IRFU should respect the decision of our coaching staff. The national team is important, it finances the game at all levels, but it's not the only show in town. The IRFU should only ever interfere if the situation is that a non-Irish player is keeping a potential Ireland international out of the team or in having players be rested to maintain fitness for international windows. Cave is eligible for selection for Ireland and is getting gametime. If Cave is first choice, we have an Irish qualified 13. We're doing our part in providing options. It would be disgraceful if the IRFU interfered to keep him from getting selected for Ulster and it would probably result in him leaving Irish Rugby. With a small player pool we can't afford to let this sort of top-down interference happen. For me, it's one of the biggest issues in Irish Rugby. Trying to micro-manage provincial selection won't work. They've appointed coaching staff at provincial level to make these decisions, they've delegated decision making to them so go ahead and leave them alone to do their job and keep their noses out of our business!

Who should play 13 for Ulster? We all have our opinions including the national teams coaches but if the system is to work properly there's one man who has the final call. Mark Anscombe. Because thats his job.

I know nothing about Plumtree but it looks like a good signing. He is experienced and rated by many. I'd trust Schmidt to make the right choice too.

This is arguably the most important news to have emerged around the Irish squad since the end of the season. A no-nonsense, hands-on kind of coach, with a record of success in three countries, who should provide the practical counterpoint to the essential analytical stuff that Schmidt seems to be putting into place. I think that we can expect a fire to be lit under a few forward backsides - in particular, I shall be looking for great things from Heaslip this season.

will Ferris be fit this season?

hugehandoff wrote:will Ferris be fit this season?

Im guessing he will feature at some stage. Probably last chance saloon though.

Ferris won't play until Jan 2014 at this stage. That's a best case scenario, which will mean that he will have been out of commission for 14 months by then. Realistically, it's very difficult to see him playing much of a role in the next 6 Nations with such an enormous amount of match fitness missing.

We all hope that he will eventually come back to somewhere near his superb best; I fear that it's not something that one could bet on with any confidence after so many injuries. It would be good to think of him being up to turning in a series of great international performances next summer and then being ready for the assault on 2015, but it can only be fingers crossed at the moment.

Plumtree is a great addition to the Irish coaching set up. The man is an excellent coach and will definitely get the best out of the pack. Personally I'm gutted, I was hoping he was going to be parachuted into the Ospreys as head coach. With his previous success in Swansea, hoped he would have made a return. Good luck to you fellas  

captain carrantuohil wrote:Ferris won't play until Jan 2014 at this stage. That's a best case scenario, which will mean that he will have been out of commission for 14 months by then. Realistically, it's very difficult to see him playing much of a role in the next 6 Nations with such an enormous amount of match fitness missing.

We all hope that he will eventually come back to somewhere near his superb best; I fear that it's not something that one could bet on with any confidence after so many injuries. It would be good to think of him being up to turning in a series of great international performances next summer and then being ready for the assault on 2015, but it can only be fingers crossed at the moment.

Where did you get that date from?

Schalk Burger was injured for two years but is back training now. Dont rule Ferris out.

Burger had meningitis though which he contracted in hopsital getting a cyst removed from his back.

Ferris is out until October and then 8 weeks preseason would make it Jan before he is back.

I'm not great with links and the like, but the article below, published on the Beeb website at the end of June, seems unimpeachable to me. Burger has it all to prove as well, just as ferris does. I'm not ruling either man out, but betting on their fitness for full international duty would be a fool's game. As I say, the 6N has to be a long-shot, at best.


"Stephen Ferris will miss the first four months of the season after agreeing a six-month extension to his Ulster deal in an attempt to regain full fitness.

The short-term contract sees the Irish flanker remain at Ravenhill until at least the end of 2013 after he rejected a lucrative option to play in Japan.

The 27-year-old had a third operation on his ankle in May and will now undergo rehabilitation with Ulster.

Ferris has not played since suffering the ankle injury in early November.

The 35-times capped Ireland international, who has been plagued by injury in recent years, will work with the medical and strength and conditioning staff at the Irish province with the aim of making a full and complete return to rugby.

He is not expected to make a comeback until at least the start of 2014, ruling him out of the first half of Ulster's season and Ireland's autumn international series of matches.

The back row forward has played 102 times for Ulster and toured South Africa with the British and Irish Lions in 2009.

Ferris's contract with the Irish Rugby Football Union had been due to expire on 30 June and a move to Japan had been mooted as a possibility.

He missed Ireland's entire 2013 Six Nations campaign and last November's internationals because of the injury.

In April, Ulster coach Mark Anscombe had admitted that he was resigned to losing Ferris, at which point an unnamed Japanese club were thought to be favourites to secure his signature."

Notch wrote:Who should play 13 for Ulster? We all have our opinions including the national teams coaches but if the system is to work properly there's one man who has the final call. Mark Anscombe. Because thats his job.

No the provincial coach doesn't have the last word and if they did the system wouldn't work.

The national coach should take on board the needs and opinions of the provincial coaches but ultimately the final decision needs to come from above, otherwise you have an umberella system where the tail wags the dog.

If the provinces, and their fans, want total automomy them we should head down the Welsh road with independent self funded franchises...but the people who want this should understand that they can wave goodbye to the Mullers, Paynes, Howlets etc. as well as a fair chunk of our best indiginous talent.

Mind you given the state of the IRFUs finances we may be headed that way anyways....

The system doesn't work if coaches aren't allowed to coach rodders. In any workplace if someone from head office comes in and starts micro-managing the regional office it increases disgruntlement and decreased efficiency.

You have a regional manager for a reason. Mark Anscombes job is to win things with Ulster and bring through young Irish talent to the point where they are ready to play international rugby. Whoever he decides to pick at 13 should be the best option to play there. And then it's up to Joe Schmidt to pick whoever he wants in his squad. But if he makes a decision Schmidt would have made differently, that's just the way it is.

profitius wrote:I know nothing about Plumtree but it looks like a good signing. He is experienced and rated by many. I'd trust Schmidt to make the right choice too.

Sound a bit last minute if you ask me. A bit of a step down from a world cup winning forwards coach to a currie cup winning coach.

SARugbymag just minutes after his appointment, Plumtree said a New Zealand franchise and a couple of UK clubs had expressed interest in his services but that the Ireland position had been the most appealing.

'I've coached at provincial and Super Rugby level, and this gives me the opportunity to take the step up to Test rugby. I'm really excited about the challenge. Ireland doesn't have the depth of South Africa or New Zealand, but they have some good players. I'm looking forward to our end-of-year Tests against Samoa, the Wallabies and the All Blacks, and next year's Six Nations.'

Plumtree was head coach at the Sharks for five years, before being told in June that his contract would not be renewed. While he was very upset with the way his dismissal was handled by new Sharks CEO John Smit and the board, it didn't take long for other offers to come in. And one of them was from Joe Schmidt, who had been appointed Ireland head coach after the Six Nations.

'When I left the Sharks, Joe phoned me and asked if I'd consider being his forwards coach. I said, yes, definitely, and flew up for an interview last week, which went very well, and I signed the contract today. Joe has had great success with Leinster and I'm looking forward to working with and learning from him.'

The Plumtree family have already packed their bags and will be arriving in Ireland shortly.

'We were only planning on taking the kids out of school at the end of the year, but the school year in Ireland starts in September, so we've got to pull them out now,' Plumtree said with a laugh. 'The house is sold and the moving van's in the driveway. That's the life of a coach I guess.

'We've already spent some time in Wales [he coached Swansea from 1997-2001] and both my boys were born there, so I'm glad they're going to get to experience that part of the world'

.'

http://www.sarugbymag.co.za/blog/details/1645

Notch wrote:

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Back to the 13 debate: I think the irfu's primary interest is Ireland rather than ulster an if they feel that Payne or Bowe "could" be better that cave then try should be given a go. It is the call I would make.

But thats just it. If the coach who works with Cave every day thinks he's a better outside centre than the Ireland coaches, his opinion should be respected. He knows the player best and he knows who will fit in with his gameplan best. Let him get on with coaching and selecting his team and leave the national coaches to worry about their own jobs. A horse is a camel designed by committee and it's impossible to coach when you have guys looking over your shoulder telling you who you need to pick. We have a situation where the IRFU get involved in provincial team selection without respecting the opinions of the coaches at the provinces and I personally think it's very dangerous.

The provincial coaches have a specific gameplan and will pick the best player who suits that. If thats Cave then the IRFU should respect the decision of our coaching staff. The national team is important, it finances the game at all levels, but it's not the only show in town. The IRFU should only ever interfere if the situation is that a non-Irish player is keeping a potential Ireland international out of the team or in having players be rested to maintain fitness for international windows. Cave is eligible for selection for Ireland and is getting gametime. If Cave is first choice, we have an Irish qualified 13. We're doing our part in providing options. It would be disgraceful if the IRFU interfered to keep him from getting selected for Ulster and it would probably result in him leaving Irish Rugby. With a small player pool we can't afford to let this sort of top-down interference happen. For me, it's one of the biggest issues in Irish Rugby. Trying to micro-manage provincial selection won't work. They've appointed coaching staff at provincial level to make these decisions, they've delegated decision making to them so go ahead and leave them alone to do their job and keep their noses out of our business!

Sorry Notch, do you not see how you are contradicting yourself with the statements that are bolded above?

Ulster will pick the best team while at the same time trying to put the best players on the pitch. If getting the best team to fit a game plan means putting Payne at 15 and not at 13, or olding on the bench because Marshall is at 12 and Cave at 13, then that's what Ulster will do. It doesn't mean it's necessarily the best player playing in a particular position, it's what's best for Ulster's team and bench. Therefore I can see the thinking behind the IRFU/coaching team if they decide they would like to see a particular player play in a particular position as it will give them a better idea of how good that player is in said position.

It isn't as simple as ".... oh this player is first choice for their province and therefore must be the best player in that position at that particular province.". And after all, the Ireland team will have a game plan too, and will therefore need particular players to fit into their game plan. That doesn't necessarily mean they are the best out and out players in a particular position, but instead have the attributes that the Ireland team/squad needs.

Oh and what do I want to see from Ireland this year? All I want is for us to throw off the shackles and play like we have done in glimpses over the last few years.

I just want to see us play with the attacking verve and grit/intensity like we had against England in the six nations before the WC when they came to Dublin and against Wales in the first half last six nations. If we go into our shell once we get a lead any more I will have a feckin heart attack. Instead of that I want to see us go for the jugular and if that means losing the game then so be it.   I remember the 90's well which means I am used to losing. What I am not used to is us losing with such a whimper, I want us to go out and play Rugby and throw everything at the opposition.

I really don't care about results anymore all I care about is performances. The last 3 or 4 or even 5 or 10 years have been so frustrating because time and time again we have underperformed. I just want us to go out and attack, attack, attack now to be honest. Feck whatever the opposition has up their sleeve, let's make them think about us instead of the other way around!

Then they should pick them in the positions they want- thats why we have summer tours and games against the likes of Samoa etc. To try things out. The cream will rise to the top without meddling. Always.

Notch wrote:Then they should pick them in the positions they want- thats why we have summer tours and games against the likes of Samoa etc. To try things out. The cream will rise to the top without meddling. Always.

Ok fair enough, I understand your point. But at the same time it is much more difficult to experiment with an international team because you have so little time with them overall. That's where the provinces come in and how they can help the international setup. The cream can only rise to the top if it is actually put in the jug or the cup.

Basically we're only talking about a very small minority of players who can play in two positions- Jared Payne and Tommy Bowe for instance.

Worth mentioning that Jared Payne isn't Irish qualified yet so it's a bit premature to say he should be playing 13 for us when he might decide to head back to NZ in a year... just saying... Anyway, he played 13 for us last year on several occassions and he'll likely do the same during international windows etc.

Notch wrote:Basically we're only talking about a very small minority of players who can play in two positions- Jared Payne and Tommy Bowe for instance.

Worth mentioning that Jared Payne isn't Irish qualified yet so it's a bit premature to say he should be playing 13 for us when he might decide to head back to NZ in a year... just saying... Anyway, he played 13 for us last year on several occassions and he'll likely do the same during international windows etc.

For Ulster alone you could be talking about others including where Olding and Henderson play, and to some extent how often P. Marshall plays at 9. But anyway I don't necessarily think about these things that much. In the first instance I was just pointing out that your idea of the best player in the best position, followed by the player that's good for the game plan, was in fact contradictory and flawed. It isn't always the best player in a particular position playing for a province. Following that I have stated how I think the provinces should help the IRFU/Irish management as far as selections go and now you have come back with how they already do that. I just think that we provinces could perhaps help more and may/should be asked to do just that, considering the challenges facing the international team.

And by the way it's not the number of players we are discussing here, it's the principle of the Irish coaching setup/IRFU asking/demanding that certain players play in certain positions.

I believe that the provinces do have to answer to the irfu to an extent. I'd also consider Joe to be pretty reasonable, he always seemed to be regarding how he was treated or what he was asked to do by the irfu.

I think if he wanted to see Payne, Bowe or olding at 13 then he'd be perfectly within his rights to do so. I think the way Ireland will and ulster do play is different and perhaps a more athletic guy (Payne, Bowe, olding, earls) than cave would be what Joe wants to accompany the hard, more direct running Marshall.

In my eyes a Marshall-Payne/Bowe partnership is somethig many nations dream of.

Also would like to say best of luck to the new coach seems pretty hands on and successful and hopefully along with Schmidt we can replace the kidney/smal 2009 brand of rugby that Ireland have been playing for the last 4 years.

Irishhoneymonster wrote:And by the way it's not the number of players we are discussing here, it's the principle of the Irish coaching setup/IRFU asking/demanding that certain players play in certain positions.

A principle which is flawed. Chain of command. The Boss in Ulster in Ulster is the Boss in Ulster. Head Coaches job is to pick the team. Interference from outside can never end well.

The two should always co-operte, co-operation is very important especially during international windows but the final call should be at provincial level.

Last season Ulster were asked to give Paddy Jackson the place kicking duties after he missed a few at Murrayfield and they co-operated. Everybody is happy. But the final call on that kind of thing should be the provincial coaches- unless it's a pre-season friendly or something.

Anyway lads- let's leave it at that. Not gonna get anywhere!

I was very pleased to see this video coming out of the IRFU; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3OUw2lDSqY

In practice the National coach is reasonably light on instructions to the provinces.

In principal the provinces are of no importance to the national coach and the IRFU. They have to do what they are told. Even if that is to play only on one leg while whistling the sash.

The provinces only exist to supply a stream of players to the Union. That's it. Everything else is at the wish of the IRFU.

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:In practice the National coach is reasonably light on instructions to the provinces.

In principal the provinces are of no importance to the national coach and the IRFU. They have to do what they are told. Even if that is to play only on one leg while whistling the sash.

The provinces only exist to supply a stream of players to the Union. That's it. Everything else is at the wish of the IRFU.

Proper order too.

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:In practice the National coach is reasonably light on instructions to the provinces.

In principal the provinces are of no importance to the national coach and the IRFU. They have to do what they are told. Even if that is to play only on one leg while whistling the sash.

The provinces only exist to supply a stream of players to the Union. That's it. Everything else is at the wish of the IRFU.

tis what it tis.

I thought that Sash thing was at the IRFUs behest.