Jack Nicklaus Says Today's Golf Ball to Blame for Slow Play

by McLaren Tue Jul 30, 2013 7:39 am

Source: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1719415-nicklaus-says-todays-golf-ball-to-blame-for-slow-play

Kathy Bissell, Bleacher Repor wrote:When describing the length of the Sunday round at the 1983 Kemper Open, former CBS announcer Ben Wright said something like "See those ducks? They were mere eggs at the beginning of today."

Slow play, until recently, was one of the least discussed and most annoying aspects of golf. Now, it's getting attention mainly because a 14-year-old amateur from China, Tianlang Guan, and a 21-year-old professional from Japan, Hideki Matsuyama, received penalty strokes for slow play at majors this season. In addition, the USGA has taken up the banner of eliminating slow play.

It's not uncommon for multiple groups to be stacked up on par-threes at PGA Tour events. But ironically enough, it's the six-hour rounds on Thursdays and Fridays at the U.S. Open, run by the USGA, that are the worst offenders every year.

Why is play so slow? No one seems to know for certain, but Jack Nicklaus has a theory.

"It's not just the players that cause the slow play," Nicklaus contends. "It's the difficulty of the golf course, the length of the golf course and the distance the golf ball goes, and you're playing a lot of golf course, and it takes more time."

Par has even changed as far as most tournament golf courses are concerned. The USGA used to have established lengths for holes. The longest par-three was supposed to be 155 yards. Par-fives used to start when a hole was 475. Everything in between was a par-four. Today, there are 220-yard par-threes and 500-plus-yard par-fours. And who-knows-what par-fives.

Nicklaus said difficult conditions, which could be anything from wind to high rough, can also cause play to slow. But he blames one thing in particular.

"The main culprit (in) slow play, to me, is the golf ball and the distance the golf ball goes," he said. "Golf, it used to take three hours, three and a half hours, British Open, you used to play the last round in three hours or less. Today they take close to five hours."

One reason for longer times during majors, according to Nicklaus and anybody who plays in them, is the difficulty of the setup.

"The more time it takes to play it, the harder it is on the public to watch and the harder it is to manage and the harder it is for the pros to become role models for the young people watching who are going to say, I'm going to emulate a pro and copy what he does. And all of a sudden that kid takes five hours, five-and a half hours, and it just sort of escalates right through the game," Nicklaus added.

Nicklaus pointed to the golf ball as a fix. When the ball started going longer and straighter, courses had to be lengthened for the professionals to be able to play holes in the same measure of par without scores dropping into the low 60s. Some older courses were made obsolete for professional play because of the distance professionals can hit with today's equipment. That does not apply to average players, just to low-handicap amateurs and professionals.

Nicklaus does not see manufacturers being willing to change the way golf clubs are made or to go back to early metal wood days, and that is another reason he focuses on the ball.

"If we went back and left equipment alone but changed the golf ball and brought it back, you played a shorter golf course, not only from the Tour standpoint would it be good, but a shorter golf course all through the game would mean less maintenance cost, less cost to play the game, quicker play, less land, less fertilizer, less everything, which would make the game more economical," he said.

You have to admit, he's got a point.

The modern standard for golf is the PGA Tour, which is ridiculously slow for threesomes. But according to PGA Tour Commissioner Tim Finchem, a part of the issue is the number of players on the course each week.

"The question really is, whether we put 146 or 156 players on a golf course playing for $7 million, and we're teeing them off every eight minutes all day long, and we are clearing the decks at the end of the day at dark and often pushing our field sizes so much that we have a wait at the turn, does that relate to the average game?" he asked.

He does not think it does.

"When we cut, on the weekend, and we go to—let's say we have got 70 and ties and we are at 74—then we are playing, what, if we play in twos, we are probably playing in 3:45."

Still, twosomes: three hours and 45 minutes.

Amateurs want to be like tour pros, and many tour pros do not seem to play quickly, although their job is just to keep up with the group in front of them. Then add drops and lost balls and rulings, which add time to a round.

At the PGA Tour level, the best solution is one the PGA Tour is loath to adopt: smaller fields.

"We elect not to do that, because as much as we like to see a stronger pace of play, the playing opportunities for the number of players we have had are more important," Finchem said. "We'll generate the playing opportunities first and take our lumps second. It's as simple as that."

Even Jack Nicklaus admits to being considered a slow player early in his career.

Joe Black, formerly of the PGA of America, the organization that ran the professional tournaments when Nicklaus first turned pro, brought pace of play to Nicklaus's attention and gave him a solution to speed up.

Black told Nicklaus he was waiting until other players were done with a shot before preparing for his shots from the fairway. He told Nicklaus the same thing was happening on the green. Nicklaus told Black he was trying to be courteous but learned to do as Black suggested. Because Nicklaus was a long hitter, once he got off the tee, he usually hit last from the fairway, so that gave him additional time to study his next shot.

"I started doing all my preparation before my shot while the other guys were hitting their shot," Nicklaus said. "When I got on the green, I start walking around the green, and I found out that it didn't bother the other players. So I stopped becoming a slow player and I became a player who managed what his problems were, and managed it so I could fit in with the field. I think that's what the players have to do."

Nicklaus still believes the target for the pace of play should be the golf ball and said the problem is being studied.

"Whatever answer they come to, I'm not sure exactly how they are going to come about it, but the game of golf needs to be played quicker," he concluded.

Jack talking a lot of sense there, do others think he is onto something?

by super_realist Tue Jul 30, 2013 8:23 am

No, I think he's talking complete Love sacks. The main reason I see for slow play is people not being ready to play, taking too long to prepare and execute their shot and walking too slowly.

Practice shots for example. What's the point? Just get on with it.

by MustPuttBetter Tue Jul 30, 2013 9:24 am

Super's absolutely right, the reason it takes so long is you see one guy have a chat with the caddy etc, hit his shot, then they cut to the next guy and he starts the whole process from scratch.
I've often wondered if tv ask them to do this and so it's something done on purpose. They try and sneak in on the conversations, they go to the on course analysis guy etc. It's obviously what they think we want to see (and maybe we do a bit), rather than just jumping from shot to shot for 4 hours.

by super_realist Tue Jul 30, 2013 9:54 am

It is in TV's and therefore the PGA's interest for golfers to take as long as possible, hence no real punitive measures for slow play, at least to box office players, different story if you are a rising asian player.

In amateur play, you just have to look how slow people walk, it's as if they are walking to the gallows. Nothing to do with the ball at all.
Have your club picked, pick your target, forget practice swings, walk quicker and the problem is solved. Also, if your ball is sliding out of play, how about actually keeping an eye on it and picking a point of reference instead of looking "somewhere" within a 100 yard radius.

by hend085 Tue Jul 30, 2013 9:57 am

people refusing to hit a provisional in stroke play competitions really annoys me. at any given opportunity i hit a provisional..... no point in coming back to tee and holding everyone up.
aside from anything else,its a good idea to hit a provisional and get the bad one out of your system!

by SmithersJones Tue Jul 30, 2013 10:12 am

I don't understand Jack's point - unless it's just that if the ball goes less far they can make the courses shorter and so quicker to walk around? But it's not the distance you have to walk that causes slow play, it's the time taken over the shots. I've never noticed pros taking longer over longer irons than wedges. Indeed, one of the things that stands out for me is how they take their time (not necessarily too much time) over even an 18 inch putt.

by JAS Tue Jul 30, 2013 10:18 am

I can see the point he's trying to make but I don't necessarily agree at least in part. Given that the ball goes longer that does mean there is more chance that a slightly off shot will find rough rather than fairway...not a problem for the pros because they have ball spotters to help them find it, even in the bundai. In the amateur game however that is one of the prime causes of slow play (ball hunting in the hay). So I'd say that in the amateur game, the primary cause of slow play is thick rough bordering narrow fairways. Whereas in the pro game the primary cause of slow play is the player assessment of the shot, the subsequent player caddie debate over each shot, followed finally by the excruciatingly slow pre-shot routine. Unfortunately these guys are supposed to be setting an example and so you now see young kids fannying about trying the same over elaborate pre-shot routines.

Back to the issue of rough, it's very much one of McKenzies design principles that there shouldn't be an excessive amount of rough (deep rough). Golf should be enjoyed and excessive wandering around in thick rough looking for balls is not enjoyable.

by beninho Tue Jul 30, 2013 10:48 am

I can understand slow play in the professional game to a point, as these guys are playing for a living. They want to be absolutely sure at times. Other points being you make the course harder and longer, then players will take longer to play it.

With us hackers,, its just down to not being good at the game, but some people are not very thoughtful to the people behind. Though thats just probably the nature of the individual person.

by super_realist Tue Jul 30, 2013 10:53 am

Courses could do with extending the time between groups going off. 8 minutes really isn't that long. All about getting the maximum number of people on the course though.

by kwinigolfer Tue Jul 30, 2013 12:20 pm

Nicklaus needs to look at himself first of all.
I'm sure it wasn't mental calibrations over how far his golfball would roll on the greens that caused him to become statuesque over putts for interminable lengths of time.
Another lesson where dealing with the behaviour at the top of the game would be a good start, whether their names are Nicklaus or Langer, Harrington or Furyk, Bradley or Simpson.

By all accounts (Johnson Wagnier's anyway), the R&A's penalising of Matsuyama chose to ignore all the sideshow of Japanese media types allowed to follow (and disrupt) play from within the ropes. They were only there because the R&A allowed them to be.

There are so many reasons for slow play, but the faster players will always be faster and, without effective sanctions being applied to the top (slowcoaches) players, it will only get worse, regardless of the distance the golfball travels.

by George1507 Tue Jul 30, 2013 12:20 pm

Since when did pro events have 8 minute tee off times?

At the Open, the tee times on days one and two were 12 minutes, with a 20 minute gap thrown in once every hour.

Still they managed to play so slowly that there were times I thought the next group must have gone home. For most of these guys, it seems that they don't start to think about the next shot until the ball is at their feet. Then they get the yardage book out and start peering into the distance and chucking blades of grass in the air. Walk around a bit, chat to the caddie, decide whose shot it is next, look at the yardage book again. There are exceptions, but once they've decided on the wind, distance, club and line, it doesn't seem to take very long to hit. Keegan Bradley is the obvious exception - he has practice swings facing in every direction except the one he's playing and just when you think he's ready, he backs off and starts fidgeting around again.

For the most part, pros don't have to look for balls either, so there's really no excuse for taking five hours when they and their partners are only hitting about 70 shots each.

by super_realist Tue Jul 30, 2013 12:22 pm

I was talking about normal club tee times George.

by JAS Tue Jul 30, 2013 12:24 pm

I assume the 20 minute gaps are to provide Ivor with the opportunity to go for a slash

by super_realist Tue Jul 30, 2013 12:26 pm

That guy Ivor's voice really annoys me. He announces the name with an inflection that makes it seems like he's asking a question.

by MustPuttBetter Tue Jul 30, 2013 12:31 pm

I thought Ivor was famous for not leaving his post, for a slash or otherwise, all day

by McLaren Tue Jul 30, 2013 12:50 pm

MustPuttBetter wrote:I thought Ivor was famous for not leaving his post, for a slash or otherwise, all day

He has a colostomy bag.

by super_realist Tue Jul 30, 2013 12:53 pm

Why doesn't he just go for a slash? He's got plenty opportunity and he only has to do 30 seconds of "work" every 12 minutes.

by George1507 Tue Jul 30, 2013 1:10 pm

super_realist wrote:I was talking about normal club tee times George.

In that article, Jack Nicklaus says -

***"The question really is, whether we put 146 or 156 players on a golf course playing for $7 million, and we're teeing them off every eight minutes all day long, and we are clearing the decks at the end of the day at dark and often pushing our field sizes so much that we have a wait at the turn, does that relate to the average game?"***

I wonder when the last time pros went off with an 8 minute interval?

by super_realist Tue Jul 30, 2013 1:16 pm

You could probably put them at at 20 minute intervals and it probably wouldnb't be enough

by beninho Tue Jul 30, 2013 1:46 pm

I am sure the sponsors are complaining. "these guys are so slow, we are getting extra time for our sponsorship payments" If the sponsors dont care, then it makes no difference how long they play. Though idiots that want to be like the pros when they play and mark the ball for a 2ft tap in are causing problems. But blame these people not the people they copy.

by MustPuttBetter Tue Jul 30, 2013 1:52 pm

super_realist wrote:Why doesn't he just go for a slash? He's got plenty opportunity and he only has to do 30 seconds of "work" every 12 minutes.

No idea. I find it more baffling that he's quite fat considering he doesn't eat for 4 days a week...

by kwinigolfer Tue Jul 30, 2013 1:53 pm

ben,
The only thing with that is that many (most?) casual club golfers mimic the pros, whether it's buying equipment that's ill-suited to them or copying the habits of the stars.

And remember, if the sponsors crave longer rounds for the leaders, that means less exposure for other golfers (perhaps their stars); the TV time available won't change.

No, change has to come from the top of the pro game and be drilled down.

by dynamark Tue Jul 30, 2013 8:35 pm

Sadly in my opinion many club players pitch up for a'day out'and do just that!
Many have absolutely no issue with the close on five hour round and an hour or two after.
Personal choice but I don't think its anything to do with pro players they just like to be there and nothing else to do.May affect club membership though.Not a game I like to play.

by Davie Tue Jul 30, 2013 8:44 pm

Dyna - that may be your opinion and you are entitled to it, but what is wrong with wanting to treat it like a day out?

No one likes overly slow play but I get a little irritated at the people who seem to want a 4 ball to be finished in 3 1/4 hours.

To me if a 4-ball gets finished in 4 hours, with no running about then that's fine and if I choose to spend an hour or two in the bar afterwards, that's all part of being in a club atmosphere.

5 hours or more is painful - no argument. But any four ball should be able to get around in 4 hours or so. Just don't ask me to run around the course like it's a race. It's meant to be fun, right?

by beninho Tue Jul 30, 2013 8:59 pm

You can only be as fast as your ability really. But if you are I no great rush and enjoying your day as it is meant to be fun as long as you think of the people behind you who may want to be quicker.

Would love to be able to spend a whole day of it. Alas a married man.

by GPB Tue Jul 30, 2013 9:21 pm

I know how long it takes these days for pros to play 18 holes.

What I would like to know how long it took 40 yrs ago.

I doubt if there is much change.

by SmithersJones Tue Jul 30, 2013 9:55 pm

I'm thinking of playing more slowly and deliberately. I don't get to play very often, and when I do my enjoyment is often marred by the feeling that I've not scored as well as I might have done. Quite often that's because I've rushed a shot, be it a short put or a drive, and have therefore missed the hole or the fairway etc. By slowing down and making sure I'm fully committed to a shot and am confident I can hit my target, I ought to take fewer shots overall and so not take as long.

by oldshanker Tue Jul 30, 2013 10:56 pm

GPB wrote:I know how long it takes these days for pros to play 18 holes.

What I would like to know how long it took 40 yrs ago.

I doubt if there is much change.

here's your answer GPB as stated in the article and quoted by Jack "The main culprit (in) slow play, to me, is the golf ball and the distance the golf ball goes," he said. "Golf, it used to take three hours, three and a half hours, British Open, you used to play the last round in three hours or less. Today they take close to five hours."

SJ - even if you took more time on your shots, you still would be quicker than some of the people I have been forced to follow recently and contrary to what some people think - apart from when I have had to make a quick dash to the bushes, I have never in my life run around a golf course. I just believe that 4+ hours for a 3 ball medal round is way over the top.

by McLaren Wed Jul 31, 2013 2:15 am

The laughable putting routines some handicap golfers use doesn't seem to help the slow play issue. The amount of groups where you see people praying on a putt with the tiger prowl and lining up putts one at a time is ridiculous.

Maybe instead of letting the group behind through when you loose the group in front you should be DQ'ed or asked to leave the course?

by GPB Wed Jul 31, 2013 4:43 am

oldshanker wrote:

here's your answer GPB as stated in the article and quoted by Jack "The main culprit (in) slow play, to me, is the golf ball and the distance the golf ball goes," he said. "Golf, it used to take three hours, three and a half hours, British Open, you used to play the last round in three hours or less. Today they take close to five hours."

Not that I don't trust Jack, but I don't trust Jack. Memory fades and I would like to see some independent corroboration.

by oldshanker Wed Jul 31, 2013 6:39 am

GPB wrote:
oldshanker wrote:

here's your answer GPB as stated in the article and quoted by Jack "The main culprit (in) slow play, to me, is the golf ball and the distance the golf ball goes," he said. "Golf, it used to take three hours, three and a half hours, British Open, you used to play the last round in three hours or less. Today they take close to five hours."

Not that I don't trust Jack, but I don't trust Jack. Memory fades and I would like to see some independent corroboration.

Really! Well how about me? I'm 61 years old, have played golf since I was 5 years old, my father was a club professional before the 2nd world war. Three to three and a half hours for 2 to 4 balls was certainly average at most clubs for the 1960's and 70's.

Of course, at 61 years old, I am a mewling, simpering, dribbling wreck of a person who can't remember where I parked my invalid car! (Don't trust Jack - I ask you how flaming insulting can you be)

by George1507 Wed Jul 31, 2013 9:22 am

GPB wrote:I know how long it takes these days for pros to play 18 holes.

What I would like to know how long it took 40 yrs ago.

I doubt if there is much change.

It does take longer for rounds in the Open, for sure. In the 1970s the first and second rounds took about 4 hours, and the final two rounds about 3½ hours.

Up until about 1965 the Open was a three day event, with the final two rounds played on the last day. There's no way they could have played at today's pace if they had to finish 36 holes. When Jack Nicklaus won in 1966, lots of people said he stifled the efforts of his playing partner Phil Rodgers by playing so slowly.

The courses these days are much longer - Muirfield was about 600 yards longer this year than in 1966. A lot of those yards were created by building new tees, so for example the 9th has a new tee 60 yards back towards Archerfield. So instead of walking off the 8th green to the 9th tee, it's a 60 yard walk back to the new tee, and then 60 yards forward after hitting. The same sort of thing at the 4th, 6th, 11th, 14th and 17th. So the total distance round (course length plus green to tee distance) is probably 1000 yards longer than the 1960s - or about 12 minutes walking time. You wouldn't expect that players could go round in the same time, but even allowing for the course lengthening, they are going much more slowly.

The Open at St Andrews is subject to the worst slow play - the double greens and crossovers cause hold ups. 2015 could be a loooong Open.

by super_realist Wed Jul 31, 2013 9:42 am

A normal round at St.Andrews takes over 4 hours George, so I would expect an Open to be in excess of 6.

Double greens aren't too much of an issue though.

by Bob_the_Job Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:32 am

oldshanker wrote:... I'm 61 years old, have played golf since I was 5 years old, my father was a club professional before the 2nd world war. Three to three and a half hours for 2 to 4 balls was certainly average at most clubs for the 1960's and 70's..

My club sets a 4 hour target time for a 4 ball in the Saturday competition, and does spot checks by noting what time you come off the 18th green at compared to your booked tee time. Offenders are sometimes spoken to, and a couple of repeat offenders have been spoken to in no uncertain terms, but always in a friendly manner. Given courses are generally a bit longer now (about 10%) that would pro-rata three and half hours to close to four, so it's a reasonable target time. That said, I think the average is more like 4 hours 15, so I think most view the 4 hour target a bit like the speed limit.. exceed it but don't take the p1ss

by incontinentia Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:39 am

Just back from a trip to the U.S. and was heartened to see that they are addressing the slow play issue out there with the "while we're young " campaign. Haven't seen any such initiatives this side of the water.

http://www.usga.org/MicroSite.aspx?id=21474856307

by kwinigolfer Wed Jul 31, 2013 9:16 pm

Interesting to see Nicklaus's comments, especially in light of the fact that he's engineered the selection of one of his courses, all 7,400+ yards of it, as the venue for the 2015 Pres Cup in S.Korea.
If he'd've built a shot-makers' course at, say, 6,800 yards, it might have spoken louder - as it is he's a direct beneficiary of the distance the pro-level golf ball travels.

PS: Perhaps it would be fairer if an Els or Norman or Devlin design was used for International home games . . . . .

by Bob_the_Job Thu Aug 01, 2013 8:57 am

I'm not sure I really buy his view that the distance the ball travels is to blame for slow play. Certinaly longer travel means longer courses which means longer rounds, but not necessarily slower pace of play. As has been noted by others, the time players waste fannying about, checking the wind 10 times, having 20 practice swings etc etc is much more material to the pace of play than the distance the ball travels.

by raycastleunited Thu Aug 01, 2013 10:25 am

It's pretty obvious to me that if the ball travels further, that in turn leads to longer courses, which take longer to play. It's even more apparent with old courses which have been lengthened. If you look at the Old Course at St Andrews the next tee is right next to the green, but the tournament tees are miles back, so the pro's step off the green, walk 80 yards back, hit their tee shot, then walk 80 yards back to where they were... ie an extra 160 yards. That's going to add loads of time to a round. The other thing is that every pro group will have someone going for the green in 2 on pretty much every par 5, which leads to a lot of standing around and waiting for a green to clear that is 280 yards away.

I'm not sure that pre-shot routines and practice swings really hold up play that much, unless they are excessive a la Keegan Bradley. In the amateur game, my experience of slow play it is more down to people who walk slowly, who "ball watch" others instead of thinking about their own shot, and who repeatedly carve their ball into the cabbage who slow everyone down.

Finally, a 300 yard drive is more likely to find the rough than a 250 yard drive as being 1 or 2 degrees off target will be exacerbated the further you hit it. I'm not saying the ball is the only reason for slow play but Jack's comments are pretty sensible to me.

by Diggers Thu Aug 01, 2013 10:33 am

Personally re the pro game I've no idea why anyone sees slow play as an issue. The cameras could cover shot to shot play much quicker if they wanted. Lets face it the actual action of swinging and hitting a ball takes up seconds in a round, all the rest of what we see is walking and shot pondering anyway. In fact the vast majority of it is putting anyway. I just don't think from a TV viewers perspective it matters.
If people believe that kids copy the pros and that's why play is slow these days then maybe that's a fair point, though personally Id say that's a very small part of why it can take a long time to get round a golf course.

by Shotrock Thu Aug 01, 2013 1:06 pm

Well we're all entitled to our own opinion, even arguably the best professional golfer of all time.

A ball that goes far does not cause players to play slowly, IMO. I certainly can't see a direct connection.

Jack was a slow player. I recall viewing the 1971 US Open at Merion and was astonished at how long he took to play his shots.

Also, I'm not sure anything is really broken in the pro game ... but I'm all for faster play for us weekend warriors.

by raycastleunited Thu Aug 01, 2013 1:45 pm

Davie wrote:

No one likes overly slow play but I get a little irritated at the people who seem to want a 4 ball to be finished in 3 1/4 hours.

To me if a 4-ball gets finished in 4 hours, with no running about then that's fine and if I choose to spend an hour or two in the bar afterwards, that's all part of being in a club atmosphere.

5 hours or more is painful - no argument. But any four ball should be able to get around in 4 hours or so. Just don't ask me to run around the course like it's a race. It's meant to be fun, right?

I have to say I agree with the sentiment of Davie's comments here. I don't understand people who want to race around. Fair enough if you've only got a short window to get a round in or if you want to finish before it gets dark, but people who rush around and then spend 3 hours in the bar... what's the point? Relax and enjoy the views!

I guess it is all relative though. I am a member of a private club where an average round during a weekend medal is maybe 3 1/2 hours. I've never been on the course more than 4 hours so I can be quite smug when people mention horror stories.

by MontysMerkin Thu Aug 01, 2013 1:58 pm

raycastleunited wrote:
Davie wrote:

No one likes overly slow play but I get a little irritated at the people who seem to want a 4 ball to be finished in 3 1/4 hours.

To me if a 4-ball gets finished in 4 hours, with no running about then that's fine and if I choose to spend an hour or two in the bar afterwards, that's all part of being in a club atmosphere.

5 hours or more is painful - no argument. But any four ball should be able to get around in 4 hours or so. Just don't ask me to run around the course like it's a race. It's meant to be fun, right?

I have to say I agree with the sentiment of Davie's comments here. I don't understand people who want to race around. Fair enough if you've only got a short window to get a round in or if you want to finish before it gets dark, but people who rush around and then spend 3 hours in the bar... what's the point? Relax and enjoy the views!

I guess it is all relative though. I am a member of a private club where an average round during a weekend medal is maybe 3 1/2 hours. I've never been on the course more than 4 hours so I can be quite smug when people mention horror stories.

Agreed and I'm in the same boat - very slow medal starting off at the end of the field may mean a 4 hour round but anything over 3.5 hours is a rarity. 2 ball under 2.5 not uncommon...

by super_realist Thu Aug 01, 2013 2:07 pm

My old man is a terrible one for moaning about slow play. Rushes round the course, plays dreadful as a result, drives home like he's rushing to a hospital, and for what, to sit in his armchair for the rest of the day.

Don't get it. I don't like being held up on every shot, but is there a more pleasant place to waste a bit of time than on a golf course?

by Diggers Thu Aug 01, 2013 2:14 pm

The problem for me with a young family is if a round takes longer than 4 hours, which in my experience as a member previously it always would in a weekend comp, then that's pretty much your day gone.
A five hour round means pretty much a day gone with travel, and that's without factoring in any socialising afterwards which to be honest I'm not that fussed about.
If I thought Id get round in 4 hours every time Id probably think about joining a club again though even then Id be lucky to play more than once or twice a month so basically not worth it.
Pesky kids Sad

by Bob_the_Job Thu Aug 01, 2013 2:17 pm

super_realist wrote:My old man is a terrible one for moaning about slow play. Rushes round the course, plays dreadful as a result, drives home like he's rushing to a hospital, and for what, to sit in his armchair for the rest of the day.

Don't get it. I don't like being held up on every shot, but is there a more pleasant place to waste a bit of time than on a golf course?

I don't like rushing, and I think my club's target time of 4 hours is fine. However, if the guys in front are going at 5 hour pace, then you will get held up on every shot, which I find breaks my (fragile) concentration and spoils my enjoyment a little. The problem of slow play is exacerbated (or exposed perhaps) by how few people will call a faster game through. But we've been over that one many times before.

by super_realist Thu Aug 01, 2013 2:21 pm

I think it's those brush tee's that are responsible. You get an extra 1.6 yards with them, which means the ball going much more offline. Bloody technology, ruining the game for everyone.

by incontinentia Thu Aug 01, 2013 2:21 pm

Guys, if Jack Nicklaus says today's golf ball is to blame for slow play, then today's golf ball is probably to blame for slow play. Don't know if anyone read my earlier link to the USGA website and their campaign to speed up play, but we could definitely implement something similar here in Europe. They have Tiger Woods, Clint Eastwood and Arnold Palmer on board. Perhaps the R&A could look into getting Padraig Harrington, Liam Neeson and Christy O' Connor senior to work in a similar capacity.

by McLaren Thu Aug 01, 2013 2:24 pm

On a more serious note it would seem to me that there is a link between the pro's having use of the modern long ball and longer tougher courses. In turn this has meant a fashion for tougher courses at all levels of the game. With new courses not always being suitable for all levels of ability.

Without sensible course set up you can't expect quicker rounds.

by Bob_the_Job Thu Aug 01, 2013 2:39 pm

Like a lot of sexual acts, doing it with a willing partner is not vulgar. Talking about it out of context on an open golf forum probably would be considered so.

by John Cregan Thu Aug 01, 2013 2:47 pm

I played in a 4 ball in Mount Juliet about 4 years ago, as pary of about 5 4 balls from our work society. We weren't marking a card though, just playing a friendly game.

There was a telephone on the 9th tee allowing an order for Burgers/Hot Dogs which we went for on the 10th tee. The Group ahead had bypassed this so they were a good hole/hole and a half ahead by the time we teed off 10th.

On the 12th, the ranger in a Buggy approached and had a word with one of my playing partners telling us to move on...............

On the 15th, as i was teeing up, the same ranger shot out in front of me and began shouting at us telling us we had recieved a warning and that this was our "FINAL WARNING"..............i was very annoyed anf told the guy that we had taken a break on the 10th tee to eat...........he started ranting once again, bellowing..."THAT DOESN'T MATTER" ...............he then proceded to leave and as he passed my 75year old dad, he shouted at him about having his buggy on the grass, and not on the path.

The group behind were at a reasonable distance behind........presuming the stopped for a burger as well.

I wrote an e-mail of complaint that night about the manner in which the Ranger had treated us, and recieved a letter of apology & Complimentary 4 ball!!

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