Lightweight rankings Top 10 Head to Head with a time machine and Peak for Peak.

Heavyweights
https://www.606v2.com/t33978-solvedheavyweight-rankings-top-10-head-to-head-with-a-time-machine-and-peak-for-peak-edited

Ali predictably and almost unanimously stayed at the number 1 position but there was a lot of jostling about with the rest with the possible exception of Foreman who gathered a few votes in second.

Light Heavyweights

https://www.606v2.com/t34073-light-heavyweight-rankings-top-10-head-to-head-with-a-time-machine-and-peak-for-peak

Charles was unanimous number 1  from the few who did post their 10 but again no consensus on the rest

Middleweights

https://www.606v2.com/t34894-middleweight-rankings-top-10-head-to-head-with-a-time-machine-and-peak-for-peak

Monzon came out on top of this, with spatterings of support for Jones and Charles for top spot though both featured in all the listed top tens. The thread veered of into a (mostly) civlised debate about evolution of technique, of sportsmen in general and the suitability of ranking greb despite the lack of footage of his fights.

Welterweights

https://www.606v2.com/t35710-welterweight-rankings-top-10-head-to-head-with-a-time-machine-and-peak-for-peak?highlight=head+to+head

The discussion didn't take off as everyone was sick of the previous head to head threads and just randomly threw in half hearted list of 3 people - centred around SRR,SRL and Hearns.


For those who missed the others - this is just a simple task of ranking your top 10/15 fighters of the LW division on a head to head basis - and he who wins the most heads to heads gets ranked highest - which is then ranked a top 10 after which if you are so inclined you compare them to your genuine top 10 and see how they compare.

Heres a randomly nicked list off another site to help you on your way

Roberto Duran
Benny Leonard
Henry Armstrong
Pernell Whitaker
Joe Gans
Barney Ross
Packey McFarland
Ike Williams
Tony Canzoneri
Beau Jack

Good work Shah........Never really seen a few of them fight so it's hard to call.....

I'll take the cowards way out and say Whittaker head to head probably beats the lot...

Too slick...

From what I've seen of Beau he's last on the list...

Not a division I'm overly comfortable ranking on a head to head basis as the recognised greats at the weight tend to be pre-war. Think the top 3 head to head has the same names as the overall top 3 (Duran, Whitaker and Leonard) but agree with Truss that Whitaker probably comes out on top.

Tends to be stepping stone division these days and although plenty of modern greats have fought there, there is an argument that they're not strictly lightweights.

A lot of guesswork but (FMJ @ 3 if included):

1) Whitaker (beats everyone)
2) Duran (beats everyone except Pernell)
3) Armstrong
4) Williams
5) Leonard
6) Okay no clue beyond this point.

fearlessBamber wrote:A lot of guesswork but (FMJ @ 3 if included):

1) Whitaker (beats everyone)
2) Duran (beats everyone except Pernell)
3) Armstrong
4) Williams
5) Leonard
6) Okay no clue beyond this point.

I'm not biting Son..

Not easy because as Superfly says, there's a decent number of fighters (Armstrong, Chavez, Mayweather etc, maybe even Arguello who was perhaps ever so slightly on the wane when he moved up to 135) whose time at Lightweight in relation to their whole careers was only fleeting, but who might well have been something very, very special at the weight had they been there longer (or earlier, in Alexis' case).

Of all the champions at 135, though, Whitaker to me was the one who most gave the impression that he just couldn't be outboxed at the weight. Like Jones at 160-175, he also had that touch of unorthodoxy about him too, which makes it an even tougher ask to figure him out in a one-off, single fight. And when his speed and reflexes declined slightly, he still had impeccable technique to fall back on.

Duran and Floyd (I'll include him to make it a bit more interesting) snapping right at his heels though, with Benny on Roberto's coat tails.

After that it gets really tricky, but I think Carlos Ortiz would have to be very near the top of the pile as he showed over a long, long championship career that he could beat all sorts of styles; speedsters like Elorde (totally boxed rings around him with his superior timing), smooth stylists like Brown and Laguna, big hitters like Ramos etc.

1) Whitaker 2) Mayweather 3) Duran 4) Benny Leonard 5) Armstrong 6) Ortiz 7) Williams 8) Gans 9) Chavez 10) Mosley

A pretty rough estimate, let me stress! Might take out Mosley and stick Arguello in at number ten on another day and re-jog a couple of others.

I think Whittaker has a problem with the older fighters and here is why.......I'm sure there were Whittaker / Mayweather types back in the 30s/40s but the emphasis back then was to ENTERTAIN...

Or you didn't fight...

I cannot believe the pitty pat....spoiling tactics and turning the opponent he employed all through out his career would wash in an Armstrong fight !!!

He'd have been slung out...or had points galore deducted....

The old timers had less time for spoilers abeit great ones....

Whittaker would have had to have changed to compete back then..

Depends on the rules/application as well. If its in pre war - whitaker might end up impregnated by half the others on the list.

Whittaker wins the head to head now.......Not sure over 15 and being forced to entertain he beats Armstrong in the late 30s..