Why do the Tigers support ticket touting?

http://www.stubhub.co.uk/leicester-tigers/?gcid=c12289p037-splashpage

I'd have thought that the Tigers and responsible Tigers fans would be happy to recycle their unusable STs back via the club to be re-sold at at best the match ticket face value.

But it appears not...

Seems very weird to see something like that from a big pro-club. Is there a limit to the number of times a ST can be 'sold on' over the season? Otherwise you could just buy one and sell it on for each match to make money. Very odd.

I'm against selling on season ticket seats, even if you can't attend, and think that the ticket should just be given to a friend/relative etc to go instead. That is what I have always do in the past.

The sales of STs at WR, SS are very high http://www.tigers.talent-sport.co.uk/PagesPublic/ProductBrowse/standAndAreaSelection.aspx?stadium=S2&product=ST1314&campaign=Y7&type=S

About I guess 15000 so far.

Match day tickets are available from poor specs on the touch and at the club house end.

I could be a fertile money-spinner for touts.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:
I'm against selling on season ticket seats, even if you can't attend, and think that the ticket should just be given to a friend/relative etc to go instead.  That is what I have always do in the past.

+1 Spidey

I think that is the norm everywhere. That's why I'm concerned about the Tigers' action to promote Stub hub at the very first point of entry to the site before you hit <enter>
http://www.leicestertigers.com/

I think stubhub are lining Tigers pockets and the club can be seen to be trying to fill the ground by allowing people or resell their season tickets with no effort required from Tigers. I'd hope stubhub had structures in place to stop touting and that tickets prices were limited to their face value plus postage.

Having no used the system I can't say either way.

It's an ebay company, Sam. Go figure.

stubhub wrote:When you list your tickets for sale on StubHub.co.uk, you are free to set your price and can adjust it any time before they sell. Leicester Tigers and StubHub will not dictate pricing for your tickets.

From the FAQ section of that page:

How should I price my tickets?
When you list your tickets for sale on StubHub.co.uk, you are free to set your price and can adjust it any time before they sell. Leicester Tigers and StubHub will not dictate pricing for your tickets.

This just makes my uneasy. Allowing Ticket touting is bad enough but facilitating it?

You got there before me on edit MrsP.

I see the Tigers are auctioning (presumably un-sold STs) on the site.

I have to say that I approve of that as every home game should be a sell-out.

Even if the tickets come to late bidders at below ticket face value - just like holidays or rail/air tickets.

e.g. 1st game v Wuss http://www.stubhub.co.uk/leicester-tigers-tickets/leicester-leicester-welford-road-stadium-8-9-2013-4315237/

This could easily lead a Quins V Munster scenario, if the Tiger get a 'profitable' draw, if they progress in the HEC.

I very much doubt it. Given the tartan rug brigade nickname of the older generation of supporters (some of them make Cockers look open minded and soft) and the usual 20k attendance at WR for average ganes there would no chance of that happening. Whilst one or two hundred might cash in I'd very much doubt Tigers fans will ever be outnumbered at home unless the event organisers demand a 50/50 split of ticket allocation.

I think you'd be surprised Sam. When Glaws last played Munster in the q/f of the HC, a large number of tickets changed hands with the away support. When tickets were exchanging for several hundred pounds it can tempt people. Whilst the home support are unlikely to be outnumbered, you could get a very sizeable number nonetheless.

From the "touting" point of view this is worrying:
"Can I resell Leicester Tigers tickets I buy on StubHub.co.uk?
Yes. As long as you originally purchased these tickets on StubHub.co.uk, you can list them for sale by going to 'Orders' in My Account and clicking the 'Resell tickets' link."
So there could be a case where a ST holder can't go the game and being a decent sort who wants another fan to benefit sells it at face value - a tout gets it and then resells it for a nice profit.

HKC, there's enough space on WR that the opposition will always have a voice and you are right that people may well be tempted to sell when most Tigers games are televised. Can't see large numbers signing up to the service though, certainly the Twitter generation will use it frequently but the number of Tigers season ticket holders (the majority of whom are middle aged or older) who will look to use the system would probably be no more than a quarter (rough guess there, though a quarter would still be just under 4,000). Certainty the season ticket holders I know would consider selling their tickets this way with about as much relish as eating manure.

It could be this is the way we are going though and Tigers are just first to jump on board. We've all seen how easily finals tickets move though the hands with supporters whose side don't make it often keen to sell on etc.

formerly known as Sam wrote:HKC, there's enough space on WR that the opposition will always have a voice and you are right that people may well be tempted to sell when most Tigers games are televised. Can't see large numbers signing up to the service though, certainly the Twitter generation will use it frequently but the number of Tigers season ticket holders (the majority of whom are middle aged or older) who will look to use the system would probably be no more than a quarter (rough guess there, though a quarter would still be just under 4,000). Certainty the season ticket holders I know would consider selling their tickets this way with about as much relish as eating manure.

It could be this is the way we are going though and Tigers are just first to jump on board. We've all seen how easily finals tickets move though the hands with supporters whose side don't make it often keen to sell on etc.

You need a heap of relish when eating manure, just to cover the taste.......I'll get my coat

It will be interesting to see the stub activity on the Ayelstone Road end for big games.

Gloucester also signed up to an agreement with StubHub a few weeks ago. Tigers aren't the only ones. Most fans I've spoken to seem a little confused how it'll work in practice. Will this service only be available for sold out games, or will the clubs allow this even when there are plenty of seats going spare? Seems a bit of a wasted income stream if its the second option.

So far as I can see, jeff, it's just a specialised ebay site.
So I'm presuming anyone can buy/sell any ticket any time.

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:
I'm against selling on season ticket seats, even if you can't attend, and think that the ticket should just be given to a friend/relative etc to go instead.  That is what I have always do in the past.

+1 Spidey

Agreed - exactly what I do as well (not that many actually want to go to an Edinburgh game, even for free.....)

As a season ticket holder (and share holder), with young kids and living a fair way away from the club I miss a fair few matches I have paid for. Whenever possible I will make sure a relative or friend goes instead. That is not always possible and "giving the seat" back to the club is not easy.

Thus I am happy that the ability to resell tickets has been made available. Concerned that people can sell at above face value and concerned that people are allowed to resell (I would rather use the site when needed to sell our seats for a pittance).

This stinks. Allowing ST holders to sell above face value is a slippery slope. It makes me uneasy.

It's already been articulated. Honest ST A sells his seat to Person B at face value or less for a big sold-out game he can't make it to. That part is good. The bit where Person B can just turn around and resell that ticket at above face value for a quick buck is the bit I can't believe Tigers endorse.

Oh and the company takes a commission on sales apparently. How hard would it have been to organise a free ticket exchange where ST holders can sell on seats at face value for games they can't make it too?

I know it's early doors but at the mo there are a total of 22 seats being offered for the first 13 home games. http://www.stubhub.co.uk/leicester-tigers-tickets/

I can currently find one ticket being touted at a profit

vs Wuss

stub wrote:£28.76 GBP
Prices are set by sellers and may be higher than face value. The total price also includes our booking fee, delivery and VAT.  
Face value per ticket: £28.00 GBP

No there's more:

vs Saints

stub wrote:Price per ticket:
£41.40 GBP
Prices are set by sellers and may be higher than face value. The total price also includes our booking fee, delivery and VAT.  
Face value per ticket: £36.00 GBP

vs Sale

stub wrote:£28.76 GBP
Prices are set by sellers and may be higher than face value. The total price also includes our booking fee, delivery and VAT.  
Face value per ticket: £25.00 GBP

When they say "Face Value", do they mean what the STH paid for the ticket or what it would cost to buy a ticket as a Non STH?

Also, having just started the scheme there are not likely to be any speculators involved, just regular STHs. Next season might be different.

I think any attempt to get profits out of the Wuss or Sale games might be wishful thinking. Demand for games such as Saints might well be different. Really it needs to be a sell out for people to be willing to pay much above face value.

I do hope Tigers police this and investigate season ticket holders who are only holding them as touts.

To be fair a quid or so above face value is probably to cover postage and stubhub fees.

I've never used Stubhub, but it is all over the US. Most US states have tough anti-touting laws and I don't hear any complaints. I do know people who used it and came away feeling good about the experience. The NFL has started its own equivalent which operates league wide. Supposedly all work well.

StubHub has tentacles beyond Welford Rd it seems

Stubhub wrote:London Double Header Tickets - London Irish v Saracens and London Wasps v Harlequins
14:00 BST at Twickenham Stadium in London, UK

Section: Lower Sideline 9
Seats: Row 12  |  Seats 346, 347
Quantity: 2  Your seats will be together

£92.00 GBP

Prices are set by sellers and may be higher than face value. The total price also includes our booking fee, delivery and VAT.  
Face value per ticket: £48.60 GBP

Appears to be in an area not available for sale on Ticketmaster from where the PRL advertise ticketing.

Sources:
TM PRL link http://www.ticketmaster.co.uk/london-double-header-london-07-09-2013/event/35004A65D0143322?artistid=1433799&majorcatid=10004&minorcatid=225?utm_source=premiershiprugby.com&utm_medium=dfp&utm_content=mpu&utm_campaign=london-double-header

PRL http://www.premiershiprugby.com/home.php

SH Other tickets search options don't reveal any real evidence of active complicity in organised ticket trading outside the Tigers and the London double header.
Although all 12 Jeff clubs, 2 Welsh Rabo and both Scottish have potential links along with all playoff finals and the ERC cups.
So it looks that potential dealing (sanctioned or not) is being put in place for when the market develops.

http://www.stubhub.co.uk/rugby-union-tickets/

Tigers apparently are trojan horses in the touting arena. No doubt any governmental tax benefits will be accrued offshore.

Price inflation marches apace [ed] stutters for potential e-touts

SH wrote:Leicester Tigers v Northampton Saints Tickets
15:15 BST at Welford Road Stadium in Leicester, UK

Section: Caterpillar Stand BL
Seats: Row M  |  Seats 0028
Quantity: 1  Your seats will be together
Ticket class: All Adult (22 - 64)

£46.00 GBP
Face value per ticket: £35.00 GBP

SH wrote:London Double Header Tickets - London Irish v Saracens and London Wasps v Harlequins
14:00 BST at Twickenham Stadium in London, UK

Section: Lower Sideline 9
Seats: Row 12  |  Seats 346, 347
Quantity: 2  Your seats will be together
Price per ticket:
£80.50 GBP

Face value per ticket: £48.60 GBP

*

* A price drop from Mr Greedy

Portnoy's Complaint wrote:
SH Other tickets search options don't reveal any real evidence of active complicity in organised ticket trading outside the Tigers and the London double header.
Although all 12 Jeff clubs, 2 Welsh Rabo and both Scottish have potential links along with all playoff finals and the ERC cups.
So it looks that potential dealing (sanctioned or not) is being put in place for when the market develops.

http://www.stubhub.co.uk/rugby-union-tickets/

Tigers apparently are trojan horses in the touting arena. No doubt any governmental tax benefits will be accrued offshore.

That seems pretty dull, the regions and scottish sides can't sell out stadiums anyway, so surely people will just buy them from the clubs themselves at the going rate rather than being overcharged (derby matches excluded, but that is only 1 per season).

If that is the case, SS, then people with STs might just offload their spare tickets a less than the match ticket price as a favour to other fans. That's the impression I'm getting from the Tigers site for under-sold games such as Worcester.

So the sides lose potential gate money.

Portnoy's Complaint wrote:If that is the case, SS, then people with STs might just offload their spare tickets a less than the match ticket price as a favour to other fans. That's the impression I'm getting from the Tigers site for under-sold games such as Worcester.

So the sides lose potential gate money.

But potentially sell moire season tickets.

I was very late renewing this year, and when the marketing people contacted me I told them that the scheduling forced by TV companies was meaning I was missing too many matches to justify the expense. Apparently this was a common "gripe".

In the end we renewed two of the four season tickets, and in a sec I will have to buy an extra ticket for the Wuss game.

Seemingly a short lesson in basic economics is being learned by some sellers on the SH/ebay market. Where demand outstrips supply, prices rise and conversely when S>D, prices fall.

Tigers v Worcester:
http://www.leicestertigers.com/news/17598.php#.UiRgJz-oEpU price falls

Tigers v Saints:
http://www.stubhub.co.uk/leicester-tigers-tickets/leicester-leicester-welford-road-stadium-5-10-2013-4315239/

Moral: If you don't think the game will be sold-out, buy on SH.

Meanwhile down in the city where all the financial wizards live, its all over the shop
http://www.stubhub.co.uk/london-double-header-rugby-tickets/london-london-twickenham-stadium-7-9-2013-4321560/

That must tell us something.

Meanwhile I note that Stubhub are reported to have concluded a new sponsorship deal with the Saints.

Running Rugby wrote:Northampton have added to their squad this summer as well as securing two new sponsors in the form of StubHub and the University of Northampton. They have also established a new partnership with Northampton Borough Council and will be adding 2000 more seats to Franklins Gardens and acting chairman Tony Hewitt agrees that the club is in good shape.

http://www.runningrugby.com/accounts-funding-and-financial-services/saints-reveal-record-turnover/