Cruden 2013 v Carter 2005

Dan Carter was crowned the worlds best fly half when he dismantled Jonny Wlkinson and steered the ABs to a 48-18 win over the Lions. A crown he has held ever since.

Was last night's shellacking of the Wallabies by a similar score line, featuring a similarly imperious display from number 10, indicative that Aaron Cruden is now the world number 1?

Which performance is the more complete in your opinion? Although the game has evolved since 2005 I couldn't help but think Cruden might just edge an objective analysis.

No.

no

No.

Ask yourself this. If you were selecting a team to play for your life, who would you put at 10, Carter or Cruden?

I'd be amazed if the answer was Cruden.

ye.... NO!

Carter is still by far the most complete and consistent 10
While Cruden is certainly improving, the wallabies targeted between him and nonu in defence quite successfully with AAC
also his goal kicking is pretty inconsistent from what I have seen of him

compared to carter who is a rock in defence (only wilko is a better tackling 10 I believe) and also one of the top goalkickers in the world (just look at his amazing conversion for crusaders on youtube)

Carter is all round the best ten I have ever seen.

Cruden has some ways to go before I will put him in the same class

No.

Cruden is ready to step up which is great. Carter remains the best 10 I have ever seen play

Ozzy3213 wrote:Ask yourself this.  If you were selecting a team to play for your life, who would you put at 10, Carter or Cruden?

I'd be amazed if the answer was Cruden.

I'd pick Cruden at the moment!

But then, he's getting ball from probably the worlds best core 9 at the moment, which carter didnt have from kelleher and Marshall in 2005.

I think we shouldn't confuse Carter the legacy and the Carter now who is struggling with a calf injury. They are different players but Cruden has a passing and offload game that is superior to Carter even in his prime. Carter has a running game that is superior to Cruden and Cruden has improved his defence and kicking game.

The 2005 saw Carter in impeccable running and kicking mode. Cruden can't do what he did in 2005. But today's performance by Cruden was comprehensive. Not magisterial but highly destructive. His game suits NZ's game at the moment and we're lucky to have him. Carter can rest up and take it easy to allow him to make the 2015 RWC. He can play a part but we're in good hands. And what lovely hands he has... In a rugby sense.

Good god no. Better lay off the sauce GE.

Cruden is up there with carter now but for some of these ABs the shirt does strange things. Nonu is playing like a donkey in super rugby but did rightly today.

Carters offloading was top class back then I would have said. If Cruden ends up half the player carter was then that's probably good enough for NZ to dominate. What age is Cruden compared to Barrett. I actually rate him very highly. Flaky at present perhaps but he has plenty of time

Good old GE, stirring the pot as usual. I'm just happy we probably have the two best 10's in world rugby- possibly the international standard is surprisingly low at the moment. So far the 2013 Cruden is outplaying the 2013 DC so at some point DC's increasing age and long term susceptibility to injury and therefore impact on the AB's ability to maintain consistency in the position makes it just a matter of time if Cruden keeps playing to these levels.

The better question for Hansen is: Will DC ever be better than he has been, or will Cruden?

I think Cruden 2013 is better than Carter 2013 notwithstanding the recurring injuries DC seems to be plagued with. Cruden's game management is much improved and he has the best attacking instincts of any fly half in the world at present.
However, over his career Carter has shown an unparalleled consistent all-round ability and Cruden has some ways to go if he wishes to emulate that. I don't think Cruden will ever be as reliable in defence (not that he's 'bad') or be as reliable kicking...and he DEFINITELY will never be able to fend like DC (though few in any position can!) yet this dosen't mean he can't be the next leading 10 in world rugby. But back to the original point - 2005 Carter was unreal, still unmatched and those Lions performances in particular were flawless.

I feel that Barrett will be better than Cruden can be who is on par or better than Carter now but not as good as Carter was.

Is the answer Dan Biggar?

I don't get your reference there Cyril? Funny (well not really) that you have to begin treading off topic again with the usual obsessive comments linked to Wales. Last March must have been a torrid time for you.

It's a ghostie article, Gareth.

Don't take it to heart.

Ghostie's article pass me by, I only usually stop to help highlight what an idiot he is...and that doesn't really need much input from an external source. Though what I'm saying to you is that I don't understand your reference to Biggar.

As I said, it's a ghostie thread.

You're not meant to understand.

Watching the Bledisloe game right now its apparent that Cruden is a) very talented and has an eye catching attacking game and b) still has a few rough edges. Couple of poor restarts, a loose pass or two.

It's very exciting for NZ that he still has a lot of potential to improve. Carter is still a more complete 10 but Cruden will push him all the way as he's only going to get better at this level, which is good to see.

I think AB fans are just relieved our world didn't fall apart when DC started to fall apart. Any comparisons are just wishful thinking. Cruden's good but no DC. Cruden's biggest improvement has been his composure and no doubt based on confidence. When he started we were all very nervy with him in the driving seat, not no more though, so well done to him.

Its amazing how over rated Cruden is. He isnt even the second best OH in the world right now.

I think we all know who you think is number two GG but in an international jersey we haven't seen Sexton play consistently well so he's in the same boat.

Cruden's durability is my issue. He pulled off with a sore knee and Barrett picked up a calf injury. So now Slade and Taylor have been called up. Why is 10 so unlucky a position for us?

10's the world over are always getting injured. DC, Goosen, Slade, Cooper, Sexton, Barnes all having recent injury stints. Goes with the territory I think.

They need to harden up. I never had a problem.  

I'm unsure as to wether anyone comparing Cruden to Carter in his prime is poking fun or attempting to wind others up.

I think we all agree that Carter is the best of his generation, not only for what he could do but the consistency he could do it, and for many seasons New Zealand weren't the same team without him.

In comparison Cruden is a supremely talented 10 who has had question marks over his international ability until last season, he has had 3/4 good games, but even still is showing some rough edges.

If Cruden is as good as 'the best there has ever been' then is Sexton too?

butterfingers wrote:.

If Cruden is as good as 'the best there has ever been' then is Sexton too?

nope.

Its tongue in cheek that Cruden in 13 is better than DC from 2005. But Cruden in 13 is so far beter that DC in 2013 and head to head Crudens come off the better player.

The point is if Cruden keeps this level of performance up, he'll quickly replace DC, particularly if DC's injury rates continue.

But so will Slad and Barett, does that mean they are better than Carter ever was?

I personally don't think any of the 3 have shown anything fit of lacing Carter's boot laces when at his best, they may be close to his current level of performance, but so is every other world 10, purely because of age and injuries, not because anybody has got anywhere near Carters abilities.

His kicking game still needs a lot of work it's true to get anywhere near Carter's level but he offers other things. Apart from Scotland it's been a while since Carter attacked the line.

I don't think he's anywhere near Carter yet. Perhaps if emulates Carter and dismantles a world cup winning 10. Or better still, go one further than Carter and win a world cup playing in the final...

I think he'll need to VASTLY improve his drop-goal technique first though.

DC's droppies arent exactly rimmed with gold either (well the ones at the posts) so theyve both got some practice to do, not that I consider dropping goals a huge part of an AB 10's role, despite the constant reminders of 2007.

DC got one vs Ireland to win last year but also fluffed one vs Oz to avoid the draw so for me theyre overated. If we can't win with tries and the odd penalty then so be it. A droppie is always a 30/70 type option as I reckon most miss in the long run and I've yet to be convinced going for a try from the same position is a worse option- at least for the AB's.

I'm happy with either. Focussing with futile minor errors with Crudens efforts the other day is just silly. His positive contribution outdid anything he did wrong as is the case with his game all year. Those who have a go more usually make more mistakes anyway.

 Cruden and Barrett both ruled out. Looks like its 2011 all over again. Slade's in to cover so I guess he'll be 10.

Wonder if theres a little white baiting going on in that there Waikato...burr burr...burr burr..."Yeah gidday Stephen...Shag here...

Dan Carter is still the best 10 in World Rugby,his defence,allround game and especially his restarts are still superior to Cruden.That was shown in the Bledisloe one match.Most of the time his goalkicking is superior also,trust old Emack2 heed my words he is still the BEST[yes its me had to reregister for some reason my old details wouldn't let me log in after hard drive replacement]

Hi Alan,
Good to see ya back. Yeah the injuries arent helping either. For me Cruden brings more to the attack with ball in hand and his age is going to go in his favour every day we all get a little older. He's got a bit more zip and lives on the edge more. I just prefer that over the ultra consistent DC sometimes.

Great call on the restarts Alan (and welcome back mate). An often overlooked facet of play that can be turned into a real weapon. The Carter/Read combo is unrivalled when it comes to kickoffs.

Cruden is fairly good - a bit better than Sam Norton-Knight I reckon but not as good as Arwel Thomas

Yeah, Cruden is ok, injured but.

Cruden has potential, but I still rank Dan Carter as the best all round 10 in the history of the sport.

Taylorman wrote: Cruden and Barrett both ruled out. Looks like its 2011 all over again. Slade's in to cover so I guess he'll be 10.

Wonder if theres a little white baiting going on in that there Waikato...burr burr...burr burr..."Yeah gidday Stephen...Shag here...

---

Tom Taylor to start. I predict Dagg will join the line at 10 on attack and Taylor will cover.