Jonathan Davies victim of Twitter abuse and threats after displacing Brian O'Driscoll in Lions side for deciding Test

by munkian Thu Aug 22, 2013 9:37 am

First topic message reminder :

Jonathan Davies victim of Twitter abuse and threats after displacing Brian O'Driscoll in Lions side for deciding Test

The Scarlets and Wales centre was one of the standout performers during the 2-1 series success over the Wallabies and was given the vote to play alongside countryman Jamie Roberts in Sydney.

Coach Warren Gatland’s selection, which included nine Welshmen in the starting XV, gave rise to some serious criticism from the likes of Lions’ great Willie John McBride and former Ireland and Lions hooker Keith Wood.

The opposition to Gatland’s decision – particularly in relation to O’Driscoll – became further inflamed on Twitter, where a handful of supporters posted threatening messages towards Davies.

Davies said: “There was a lot of stuff on Twitter but I tried not to take too much notice of it. I had some good advice from players like Mike Phillips who just told me to ignore it.

“I was just grateful to have been given the opportunity to win the series. I did get a bit of verbal abuse and people wanting to break my legs and stuff. But I didn’t really care.

“I did feel like public enemy number one and there was a lot of pressure. But I felt like I had performed well under pressure.

“It was a great experience and I enjoyed every minute. Brian congratulated me afterwards and said well done. We were tight as a squad and Brian will be glad to have it on his CV.”

Davies will now turn his attention to helping the Scarlets re-establish themselves as a force in European club rugby.

“I have had six weeks offf and I’ve enjoyed it. I’ve been away on holiday and can’t wait to get back playing.”

Pretty disgusting stuff, rugby becoming more popular is attracting football like behaviour

by The Saint Mon Sep 02, 2013 5:19 pm

Let's just hope that Sin isn't on the panel.

by Sin é Mon Sep 02, 2013 5:32 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:
Sin é wrote:I'd imagine, Carter, McCaw, Smith and a few others that the NZRU want to keep happy and playing in NZ would be asked for their views. Would they want to stay in NZ and risked getting dropped out of nowhere by Gatland or would they prefer to head for foreign shores and make a stack of money in the lap of luxury.

Thinking ahead to after the next rugby world cup, seems like a fair few of the Chief's players (Savea, Sonny Bill, Cruden, have a coaching relationship with Rennie & Smith (and play well for them) and will be key players for the ABs.
But you of all people surely aren't suggesting that Rennie and Smith, were they to get the job, select players they are familiar with and have a coaching relationship with?? Surely not!

I'm suggesting that the NZRU are more than likely going to go with the guys that have a good track record coaching those players available already.

Also love the "out of nowhere" suggestion, as if that were actually the case. Whichever side of the fence you are on, if you had even the smallest shred of objectivity you'd acknowledge that there was little to separate JD2 and BOD on the tour, and the decision was always going to be a close one once Roberts was available. It was certainly not "out of nowhere", at least for rugby fans with two eyes and a moderately functioning brain (and certainly not for a man of your imagination).

I can't think of any pundit that selected Davies ahead of BOD for the final Test.

The thought that a whole host of senior ABs would genuinely turn their backs on the All Black jersey purely because Gatland only played BOD for 2/3 of the Lions Test series, and ultimately won the 3rd Test by a record margin (thus at the very least the decision had no particular detriment to the side), goes well beyond wishful thinking.

Keep chasing those rainbows son.

They wouldn't be turning their back on the AB jersey. They would be continuing to give continual service. For example, how rich would Richie McCaw be if he took off to France after the last world cup? Or Dan Carter. These guys are vital to New Zealand and are treated differently to most the team. From the evidence to day with Ireland and Wales, Gatland is very suspecious of senior players (like Wood & BOD). Thats why he keeps Sam Warburton as Wales captain - he wouldn't say boo to a fly. Gatland would be terrified by the likes of Conrad Smith, so he would get rid of him immediately.

by Knowsit17 Mon Sep 02, 2013 6:04 pm

Sin é wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:
Sin é wrote:I'd imagine, Carter, McCaw, Smith and a few others that the NZRU want to keep happy and playing in NZ would be asked for their views. Would they want to stay in NZ and risked getting dropped out of nowhere by Gatland or would they prefer to head for foreign shores and make a stack of money in the lap of luxury.

Thinking ahead to after the next rugby world cup, seems like a fair few of the Chief's players (Savea, Sonny Bill, Cruden, have a coaching relationship with Rennie & Smith (and play well for them) and will be key players for the ABs.
But you of all people surely aren't suggesting that Rennie and Smith, were they to get the job, select players they are familiar with and have a coaching relationship with?? Surely not!
I'm suggesting that the NZRU are more than likely going to go with the guys that have a good track record coaching those players available already.

Also love the "out of nowhere" suggestion, as if that were actually the case. Whichever side of the fence you are on, if you had even the smallest shred of objectivity you'd acknowledge that there was little to separate JD2 and BOD on the tour, and the decision was always going to be a close one once Roberts was available. It was certainly not "out of nowhere", at least for rugby fans with two eyes and a moderately functioning brain (and certainly not for a man of your imagination).
I can't think of any pundit that selected Davies ahead of BOD for the final Test.

The thought that a whole host of senior ABs would genuinely turn their backs on the All Black jersey purely because Gatland only played BOD for 2/3 of the Lions Test series, and ultimately won the 3rd Test by a record margin (thus at the very least the decision had no particular detriment to the side), goes well beyond wishful thinking.

Keep chasing those rainbows son.
They wouldn't be turning their back on the AB jersey. They would be continuing to give continual service. For example, how rich would Richie McCaw be if he took off to France after the last world cup? Or Dan Carter. These guys are vital to New Zealand and are treated differently to most the team. From the evidence to day with Ireland and Wales, Gatland is very suspecious of senior players (like Wood & BOD). Thats why he keeps Sam Warburton as Wales captain - he wouldn't say boo to a fly. Gatland would be terrified by the likes of Conrad Smith, so he would get rid of him immediately.

What evidence? You have presented nothing even remotely close to evidence justifying your colourful theories. Oh, and repetition, changing the subject or simply spontaneously coming up with a new conspiracy theory off the top of your head don't qualify as evidence I'm afraid.

by Cyril Mon Sep 02, 2013 6:06 pm

Personally I think Tuilagi would have done a better job than either of them.

by funnyExiledScot Mon Sep 02, 2013 6:15 pm

Sin é wrote:From the evidence to day with Ireland and Wales, Gatland is very suspecious of senior players (like Wood & BOD). Thats why he keeps Sam Warburton as Wales captain - he wouldn't say boo to a fly. Gatland would be terrified by the likes of Conrad Smith, so he would get rid of him immediately.

What about all the senior Wales players and Wasps players Gatland worked with and continues to work with?? Adam Jones, Gethin Jenkins, AWJ, Martyn Williams, Mike Phillips, Shane Williams with Wales, and the various wallflowers with Wasps, like Phil Vickery, Raphael Ibanez, Simon Shaw, Lawrence Dallaglio and Josh Lewsey.

You are talking some serious nonsense mate.

by The Great Aukster Mon Sep 02, 2013 6:19 pm

The Saint wrote:I didn't lump them in with any of the ones criticising Davies.

Perhaps I could remind you of:

The Saint wrote:However he has been the victim of some bitter Irish twitter trolls. That's the fault of them only, and in part Wood and McBride who made daft comments that fuelled the fire, and neither backtracked when they were shown up to be wrong either.

This is clearly lumping them together in the same sentence by anyone's interpretation. Davies received Twitter abuse but unless you have evidence that Wood and McBride’s comments had a direct influence on the abusers, then you should seriously consider removing such inference.

by Sin é Mon Sep 02, 2013 6:20 pm

Knowsit17 wrote:
What evidence? You have presented nothing even remotely close to evidence justifying your colourful theories. Oh, and repetition, changing the subject or simply spontaneously coming up with a new conspiracy theory off the top of your head don't qualify as evidence I'm afraid.

Wood was the Irish captain when Gatland's contract wasn't renewed. Wood wanted him gone because he refused to listen to the senior players who first of all had to fight to get a dedicated Backs coach, then Gatland was resisting getting a Defence Coach which is when the IRFU decided not to renew his contract. Wood had a big say in the fact that his contract was not renewed. Wood's opinion is still rated by the IRFU because he was one of 4 that interviewed the Ireland coaches and appointed Joe Schmidt.

Just because the authoritarian relationship that Gatland has with the Welsh players works for Wales doesn't necessarily mean it will work with the All Blacks. Paul O'Connell said after the Lions that there was no involvement of the senior players which he said was unusual (and he has played for a fair number of coaches in the last 12 years or so).

by funnyExiledScot Mon Sep 02, 2013 6:25 pm

Sin é wrote:
Also love the "out of nowhere" suggestion, as if that were actually the case. Whichever side of the fence you are on, if you had even the smallest shred of objectivity you'd acknowledge that there was little to separate JD2 and BOD on the tour, and the decision was always going to be a close one once Roberts was available. It was certainly not "out of nowhere", at least for rugby fans with two eyes and a moderately functioning brain (and certainly not for a man of your imagination).
I can't think of any pundit that selected Davies ahead of BOD for the final Test.

Not that media pundits are evidence of anything, but having spent 20 seconds on Google the first pundit selection I found was Mick Cleary at the Telegraph who picks BOD, but says that he's under pressure from the in-form Jonathan Davies.......hardly "out of nowhere" then, sounds more like a close call, which is exactly how I described it!

by funnyExiledScot Mon Sep 02, 2013 6:30 pm

Sin é wrote:
Paul O'Connell said after the Lions that there was no involvement of the senior players which he said was unusual (and he has played for a fair number of coaches in the last 12 years or so).

...and yet the "authoritarian" approach of the Gatland and the Lions coaches, as you describe it, seems to have worked pretty well.

I wonder how it compares with 2009, when Gatland was forwards coach rather than head coach, and how different it was on that tour (POC wasn't complaining then, but I suppose he was captain on that tour which was perhaps the real issue here).

I'd say POC performed more strongly on this tour than in 2009 - Shaw and AWJ were the form locks on that tour - whereas POC started the 1st Test on merit here. Perhaps the authoritarian approach works well for POC, whether he likes it or not.....

by flyhalffactory Mon Sep 02, 2013 6:40 pm

theslosty wrote:

BOD has surely negated the running threat of JOC at this point, possibly even earlier. Note JOC isn't moving very fast, Davies should now focus on AAC.

1 second later Davies finally tries to take down AAC. Too late. But look, that's 1 second that has cost him, I wouldn't say it should have had any implications on 3rd test selection.

I'm open to interpretations, but come on...

WHOOOO HOOOOO at last proof of the pudding not in slo-mo but stop-mo

7.48 the ball came out of the ruck to JOC
7.52 that's FOUR seconds later, look at Bowe looking at JOC. Look at JOC looking at JOC. Look at the angle of BODs body he is flat out, no control, body just about desperately fly at the Aussie 10.
7.53 that's five seconds later BOD hits JOC............ time for a dinner and dance anyone, because the rampaging AAC is just about to receive the perfect ball from JOC who has had a whole FIVE seconds to decide what to do, Oh by the way Foxy now has to readjust his body to compensate for the attempt to cover two rampaging Aussie backs....... game over
7.53

by Cyril Mon Sep 02, 2013 6:43 pm

flyhalffactory,

Calm down, wipe the spittle off the monitor and take a deep breath.

Blimey.

by Sin é Mon Sep 02, 2013 6:45 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:
Sin é wrote:From the evidence to day with Ireland and Wales, Gatland is very suspecious of senior players (like Wood & BOD). Thats why he keeps Sam Warburton as Wales captain - he wouldn't say boo to a fly. Gatland would be terrified by the likes of Conrad Smith, so he would get rid of him immediately.
What about all the senior Wales players and Wasps players Gatland worked with and continues to work with?? Adam Jones, Gethin Jenkins, AWJ, Martyn Williams, Mike Phillips, Shane Williams with Wales, and the various wallflowers with Wasps, like Phil Vickery, Raphael Ibanez, Simon Shaw, Lawrence Dallaglio and Josh Lewsey.

You are talking some serious nonsense mate.

The senior Wales players are not involved. He has a fair bit of power over them. None of them having demanding club careers - all their glory comes from playing with Wales. He dropped Martyn Williams fairly quickly and Ryan Jones has been publicly humiliated by him.

Its nearly 10 years ago since he was with Wasps and he didn't last very long there anyway and he seems to look after his pets (i.e., Yes Men) from there.

By the way, this is what Dallaglio had to say about BOD's dropping.

"He's certainly an iconic player and because the selection has ended his Lions career it's a bit more significant," Dallaglio said. "But I still couldn't quite believe how together all the Lions supporters were and now one decision has completely divided them again."

He went onto say that the trouble was with the forwards, not the backs anyway.

by flyhalffactory Mon Sep 02, 2013 6:51 pm

Cyril wrote:flyhalffactory,

Calm down, wipe the spittle off the monitor and take a deep breath.

Blimey.

cyril
nice one cyril nice one son.... nice one cyril.... lets havva nuvva one

hey cyril the posters on here of all nationalities are having a discussion on rugby... nothing foryou here

by theslosty Mon Sep 02, 2013 6:51 pm

flyhalffactory wrote:7.48 the ball came out of the ruck to JOC

by Cyril Mon Sep 02, 2013 6:58 pm

flyhalffactory wrote:
Cyril wrote:flyhalffactory,

Calm down, wipe the spittle off the monitor and take a deep breath.

Blimey.
cyril
nice one cyril nice one son.... nice one cyril.... lets havva nuvva one

hey cyril the posters on here of all nationalities are having a discussion on rugby... nothing foryou here

No need to get all huffy flyhalf Smile

Your posts on here are a bit shouty and emotional. Also, no need to make stuff up and lie to make a point.

A bit more meat on the bone laddie.

by Knowsit17 Mon Sep 02, 2013 7:01 pm

Sin é wrote:
Knowsit17 wrote:
What evidence? You have presented nothing even remotely close to evidence justifying your colourful theories. Oh, and repetition, changing the subject or simply spontaneously coming up with a new conspiracy theory off the top of your head don't qualify as evidence I'm afraid.
Wood was the Irish captain when Gatland's contract wasn't renewed. Wood wanted him gone because he refused to listen to the senior players who first of all had to fight to get a dedicated Backs coach, then Gatland was resisting getting a Defence Coach which is when the IRFU decided not to renew his contract. Wood had a big say in the fact that his contract was not renewed. Wood's opinion is still rated by the IRFU because he was one of 4 that interviewed the Ireland coaches and appointed Joe Schmidt.

Just because the authoritarian relationship that Gatland has with the Welsh players works for Wales doesn't necessarily mean it will work with the All Blacks. Paul O'Connell said after the Lions that there was no involvement of the senior players which he said was unusual (and he has played for a fair number of coaches in the last 12 years or so).

I've seen the same story or similar variants posted on here more than once. What I haven't seen is anything in the way of material or concrete evidence justifying this view. No blogs, articles, interviews or anything attesting to Gatland's apparent closed-mindedness with Ireland or the Lions. Do you have testimony from players or staff clarifying that Gatland went out of his way to shut the Irish leaders out of the equation? Can you quote anyone who stated directly that there was a clear division in the Lions' camp as a result of Gatland's approach? There is nothing to say that these types of stories aren't, as they appear to be, blinkered inventions cooked up for convenience's sake.

And when did the AB's job crop up in this discussion? There's a thread or two on that already I believe, feel free to disparage Gatland's credentials on them rather than trying to drag this one even further off topic.

by Guest Mon Sep 02, 2013 7:07 pm

Sin é wrote:
optimist wrote:The Great Aukster

As a rugby supporter for nearly 60 years, I'm glad the Lions won the series against Australia, to be honest much more glad about that than anything else about the tour. Some people don't see it like that, preferring to concentrate on more negative aspects.

I'm also trying to understand what "the Lions ethos" might be and how and why it's been "eroded". Hasn't every Lions tour basically been a bunch of men far from home - since 1966 with a coach - trying to beat the best and worst the opposition can throw at them? How and why was 2013 different?
Ah, so you agree there are negative aspects to the last Tour then? I thought everything was perfect because the Lions won

The Lions tour has generally been a blend of the 4 nations. This one was the Welsh team, most the Welsh coaching team and the Welsh gameplan (which only the Welsh players selected for the tour suited). Anyone else touring were there as tackle bags - i.e., Zebo, Hogg etc. would be Australian/SH style players.

I love it - the glee in the comment "Ah, so you agree there are negative aspects to the last Tour then? I thought everything was perfect because the Lions won."

I'm not daft enough to believe that anything or anyone in rugby is perfect - not even John Eales - so it follows that there are always negative aspects to be winkled out by those who enjoy doing that. I just think far too much has been made of them in relation to the recent Lions tour, especially by you, set against the much more important fact that the Lions won the series.

By the way, one of the most depressing features of any Lions tour in my opinion was how in 1983 Ciaran Fitzgerald, captain of Ireland and inexplicably tour captain , was the hooker in a 4 Test whitewash by New Zealand. By common consent amongst rugby men, Colin Deans of Scotland was the world's best hooker but Fitzgerald was always picked ahead of him. Deans was on the tour yet didn't play in the Tests. Ah, some might say, but the coach was himself a Scot, Jim Telfer. True, but the manager was Irish, Willie-John McBride.

by HammerofThunor Mon Sep 02, 2013 7:10 pm

First off don't dirty Hound's good name with my actions. That's not me.

flyhalffactory wrote:Your comments beggars belief

Ok, you riled me now.

1. from the rear view its even more damning even though the camera angle favours the Lions, its clear when the ball comes out the only player who is still looking at the ruck - BOD, even a knackered Lydiate responds sooner. JOC is running before BOD moves his head......... Davies cuts off the straight line run i.e. he comes out quickly otherwise JOC would have run straight as there is no way that BOD would have got to him even from the rear angle which is really doesn't show the true reflection of the direction of play.

In the video YOU quote/referenced so heavily (here it is again https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cETSHAnswos). At 8:26 BOD is clearly moving towards JOC before he even has the ball. At this point BOD is wider out than JOC. So if you mean JOC was running without the ball while BOD was looking at the ruck then yes, you're right. If you mean he was running WITH the ball then that is a lie. Running the video on from 8:26 to 8:28 when JOC passes at no point is JOC more than 11m outside BOD. BOd is cutting off the straight run, forcing JOC further out...like he's supposed to. When a straight run would have taken him directly into BOD you're talking nonsense. And when you're talking about position across the field how is a camera from pretty much directly behind NOT a true reflection?

2. even the rear angle shows Davies looking at BOD pleading "I am in no-mans land here mate", if BOD was face on to JOC then why would he have turned sideways running when he could have just cover tackled him face on....... and why do Davies and Bowe run towards the three Aussies.

I think the first bit is in your head. But even if JD did notice JOC coming across and called for help, that is what he's supposed to do and BOD covered him, as shown in point 1. And as they were both running sideways why would BOD be facing him? That would mean he would have to shuffle sideways which would be ridiculous. And on the last point...to tackle them?

I don't understand your point. If Davies was 'pleading' he needs to grow up (if that's not in your mind of course). They're both running sideways. If BOD had remained face on he would have had to shuffle sideways. At no point was JOC more than about 1m outside BOD. Last comment I don't understand. To try and tackle them?

3. If BOD was tracking him so well, then why didn't he get to him before JOC got to the 5 metre line and why was he fully stretched and almost tackling him with his finger nails, I mean JOC is regarded as fairly pedestrian in flight. Why did JOC have the time from 15m to 5m pass the ball before BOD tackled him.

Because he was just covering sideways, not rushing out to leave a dogleg. And he did get to him before the 5m line, not much before but definitely before. Fully stretched and fingernails? That's bull, it was a body on body tackle. He didn't need to flatten the guy. By definition JOC would have had time to pass because he would have passed before he was tackled. Also it's BETTER for the Lions that it takes as long as possible. The longer JOC holds it and the wider he goes the less room there is for the Aussie backs. Unless someone is suckered in a loses position.

To clarify Hound we know you are English and we know you your opinion of the Welshman Davies ....... likewise I am Scottish and personally would rather a Davies/BOD midfield than a Roberts/Davies midfield for any test but the right decision was made by Mr G

There is no 'right' decision. It was his decision and he made it. The end result was what he wanted. Doesn't mean squat in this case. I don't care about who was selected for the Lions (the fewer English the better). But, since you seem to be claiming to have studied the video forensically, you must be lying about it. And that I will not stand for. Someone lying on the internet? What next? People pretending to be a different nationality.

And to clarify the things I say you're lying about are:

1) JOC is running before BOD looks up (either a lie or a completely pointless statement depending on whether he had the ball or not)

2) JD cut of the straight run. BOD was in line with JOC all the way

3) BOD didn't get to JOC before the 5m line. He did.

4) BOD was fully stretched and almost tackling with his finger nails. It was body on body contact.

I won't mention the one Mrs P already pulled you up on.

by Sin é Mon Sep 02, 2013 7:13 pm

Knowsit17 - I posted a link to an interview earlier in this thread where Paul O'Connell was asked if he was involved in the coaching once he was injured (there were reports that the reason he was staying was to help out with coaching the lineout*). He said no he wasn't involved, which he said was completely different to anything he has experienced in the past with Munster or Ireland where the senior players are much more involved in the decision making and running of the team.

By the way, I didn't claim he shut the Irish leaders out of the equation, I said didn't involve any of the senior players. They were told what to do.

I created a bit of a storm earlier on this thread when I said (and supported the claim) that Paul O'Connell said that he nearly missed the bus for the 3rd Test because he was out lunching with friends on Bondi beach.

by Casartelli Mon Sep 02, 2013 7:23 pm

"...lunching with friends..."

Laugh

by Hound of Harrow Mon Sep 02, 2013 7:28 pm

fhf - ref your earlier post. I don't believe I have expressed an opinion about Davies. I expected BOD to start, but with Roberts fit I could understand the call to pick JD; particularly after his form in the 6N, which was Gatland's main selection criteria for the squad.

I still maintain that it was a bloody good try by Aus. Classic Aus - shifting the point of attack until they created the opportunity. For me Genia spotted that the try was on because Aus had width in attack with few defenders to stop them.

I said to my pals in the ground "They're gonns score here" as the ball came back from the ruck. I really did have a great view of the build up.

by Knowsit17 Mon Sep 02, 2013 7:30 pm

Sin é wrote:Knowsit17 - I posted a link to an interview earlier in this thread where Paul O'Connell was asked if he was involved in the coaching once he was injured (there were reports that the reason he was staying was to help out with coaching the lineout*). He said no he wasn't involved, which he said was completely different to anything he has experienced in the past with Munster or Ireland where the senior players are much more involved in the decision making and running of the team.

By the way, I didn't claim he shut the Irish leaders out of the equation, I said didn't involve any of the senior players. They were told what to do.

I created a bit of a storm earlier on this thread when I said (and supported the claim) that Paul O'Connell said that he nearly missed the bus for the 3rd Test because he was out lunching with friends on Bondi beach.

So he said it was a different experience. He did not directly criticise the setup.

Why is it even meant to be surprising that O'Connell stayed? I thought at the time, and have since seen no reason to change my view, that he did so for the same reason most of the other injured/omitted stayed behind ie to get behind and cheer on those of their teammates who were directly involved. Wouldn't have looked like much of a team-player if he'd just fecked off home as soon as it became clear he couldn't play anymore.

Anything more direct in the way of that evidence I requested earlier?

by funnyExiledScot Mon Sep 02, 2013 7:32 pm

Sin é wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:
Sin é wrote:From the evidence to day with Ireland and Wales, Gatland is very suspecious of senior players (like Wood & BOD). Thats why he keeps Sam Warburton as Wales captain - he wouldn't say boo to a fly. Gatland would be terrified by the likes of Conrad Smith, so he would get rid of him immediately.
What about all the senior Wales players and Wasps players Gatland worked with and continues to work with?? Adam Jones, Gethin Jenkins, AWJ, Martyn Williams, Mike Phillips, Shane Williams with Wales, and the various wallflowers with Wasps, like Phil Vickery, Raphael Ibanez, Simon Shaw, Lawrence Dallaglio and Josh Lewsey.

You are talking some serious nonsense mate.
The senior Wales players are not involved. He has a fair bit of power over them. None of them having demanding club careers - all their glory comes from playing with Wales. He dropped Martyn Williams fairly quickly and Ryan Jones has been publicly humiliated by him.

Its nearly 10 years ago since he was with Wasps and he didn't last very long there anyway and he seems to look after his pets (i.e., Yes Men) from there.

You are talking such drivel. Of course he has "power" of the senior players in the Welsh team, he is the head coach, and what on earth has the comment about not having demanding club careers got to do with anything!!?

He didn't "drop Martyn Williams fairly quickly" at all. Williams played under Gatland for years. When it came to Williams needing to retire, Gatland persuaded him to play a few extra games as cover, and once Warburton emerged in the side, Williams, at a ripe old age, duly bowed out.

How on earth does your imagination construe that Ryan Jones has been "publicly humiliated" by Gatland?? How??

When you say "he didn't last long at Wasps", you mean he oversaw their most successful period in history winning multiple trophies with a group of players that included some of the biggest names in the NH game, and then took an international posting (of his own choice) with Wales, transforming them from the total chaos of the Gethin Jenkins era into Grand Slam champions.

Dallaglio and co have always spoken extremely highly of Gatland. Always.

by funnyExiledScot Mon Sep 02, 2013 7:40 pm

Sin é wrote:
By the way, this is what Dallaglio had to say about BOD's dropping.

"He's certainly an iconic player and because the selection has ended his Lions career it's a bit more significant," Dallaglio said. "But I still couldn't quite believe how together all the Lions supporters were and now one decision has completely divided them again."

He went onto say that the trouble was with the forwards, not the backs anyway.

I agree with his point in the quote you've provided. I can't quite believe how poorly a number of fans have reacted to Gatland's selection of JD2 over BOD either.

Thankfully it seems fans like yourself are in the small minority on this one, and from what I've heard from fans who were actually out there supporters tended to stand behind Gatland and the Lions, even if they would have composed the XV slightly differently (as most of us would no doubt).

by MrsP Mon Sep 02, 2013 7:58 pm

Hound of Harrow wrote:fhf - ref your earlier post. I don't believe I have expressed an opinion about Davies. I expected BOD to start, but with Roberts fit I could understand the call to pick JD; particularly after his form in the 6N, which was Gatland's main selection criteria for the squad.

I still maintain that it was a bloody good try by Aus. Classic Aus - shifting the point of attack until they created the opportunity. For me Genis spotted that the try was on because Aus had width in attack with few defenders to stop them.

I said to my pals in the ground "They're gonns score here" as the ball came back from the ruck. I really did have a great view of the build up.

Hound,

It seems clear that the response to the selection for the third test was different amongst the travelling fans than amongst some of the fans at home.

Why do you think that was?

My guess is that a combination of actually being face-to-face and cheek-by-jowl with fellow fans of the Lions from other hame nations moderates feelings on selection. This coupled with a clear financial investment in the tour which non travelling fans have not made will lead to the travelling fans being more emotionally "invested" in the whole tour experience.

You see the same thing with League games where the fans complaining about decisions in a game are much more likely to have watched on the telly than at the stadium.

I don't think that means that either group are neccessarily "better" fans, just that the 2 types of experience are different.

Of course there will be complaining travelling fans and content "stay-at-home" fans but I suspect the balance is different. What do you think?

by The Saint Mon Sep 02, 2013 8:22 pm

The Great Aukster wrote:
The Saint wrote:I didn't lump them in with any of the ones criticising Davies.
Perhaps I could remind you of:

The Saint wrote:However he has been the victim of some bitter Irish twitter trolls. That's the fault of them only, and in part Wood and McBride who made daft comments that fuelled the fire, and neither backtracked when they were shown up to be wrong either.
This is clearly lumping them together in the same sentence by anyone's interpretation. Davies received Twitter abuse but unless you have evidence that Wood and McBride’s comments had a direct influence on the abusers, then you should seriously consider removing such inference.

I must have been thinking of my earlier posts (the ones that are back a few pages and posted days ago). Allow me to backtrack for you. I don't hold Wood and McBride responsible for the abusive messages and death threats that Davies received. I do however believe that both of their pathetic comments had a widespread influence on the constant whinging and Ireland's condemnation of the Lions. If they had admitted they were wrong after the final test then things would be a lot calmer. Wood and McBride are two well-respected rugby icons in Ireland. Had they did this then the majority of Ireland fans wouldn't have bothered whinging and making up conspiracy theories against Gatland so much. Too bad they didn't. All they have to say is "Lions should have won by more, bla bla" and the Irish sheep are following suite again.

And BTW, refrain from posting any more libellous comments about Gatand even if you aren't going to admit you did so thumbsup

.

by asoreleftshoulder Mon Sep 02, 2013 8:39 pm

flyhalffactory wrote:
He damn well didn't..........

THE BALL HAD BEEN PASSED AND AAC HAD SCORED THE DAMN TRY BEFORE BOD ACTUALLY TOUCHED JOC...... THATS WHY FOXY WAS CAUGHT IN NO-MANS LAND....... ATTEMPTING TO COVER THE I/C LINE AND THE O/C LINE........ IF HE (DAVIES) HADN'T DELAYED THE COVER OF AAC THEN JOC WOULD HAVE HAD A FREE RUN IN BECAUSE NO WAY IN THE WORLD WAS BOD EVEN AWARE HE HAD THE BALL.

ARE WE GETTING THROUGH TO YOU?

Give me strength..... you just haven't got a clue have you

Jonathan Davies victim of Twitter abuse and threats after displacing Brian O'Driscoll in Lions side for deciding Test - Page 19 Wallab10

Want to try again?

by MrsP Mon Sep 02, 2013 8:44 pm

Did Davies recieve death threats?

Of course he should not have recieved any abuse in any way, shape or form but I didn't hear anything about death threats.

Also, although I repect both WJMcB and KW and their opinions, I am more than capable of forming my own and did so long before I had heard either of their views on the matter.

by Hound of Harrow Mon Sep 02, 2013 8:47 pm

MrsP - for sure when you have invested money and time to go on tour you want the team to win, irrespective of nationality. The cheer Richie Gray got when he came on was great. Everyone realised a Scot had not taken part in a test and the Lions' fans were happy for the Scots amongst us.

The fans were singing Bread of Heaven, Ireland's Call, Flower of Scotland and Swing Low.

For me, whoever is wearing that iconic red jersey gets my support. But then the Lions is the pinnacle for me. You have to be on tour to get the camaraderie thing.

If you are only blinkered towards your own nation (largely my experience of this forum) then it is easy to look for scapegoats outside your own country, and to defend your own.

Of course there were discussions over selection, but because these were conducted face to face, they were reasonable and people listened to each others point of view.

I wish people on forums could imagine they are sitting round in a group rather than some just posting provocative stuff.

zen

by bedfordwelsh Mon Sep 02, 2013 8:52 pm

Hound of Harrow wrote:MrsP - for sure when you have invested money and time to go on tour you want the team to win, irrespective of nationality. The cheer Richie Gray got when he came on was great. Everyone realised a Scot had not taken part in a test and the Lions' fans were happy for the Scots amongst us.

The fans were singing Bread of Heaven, Ireland's Call, Flower of Scotland and Swing Low.

For me, whoever is wearing that iconic red jersey gets my support. But then the Lions is the pinnacle for me. You have to be on tour to get the camaraderie thing.

If you are only blinkered towards your own nation (largely my experience of this forum) then it is easy to look for scapegoats outside your own country, and to defend your own.

Of course there were discussions over selection, but because these were conducted face to face, they were reasonable and people listened to each others point of view.

I wish people on forums could imagine they are sitting round in a group rather than some just posting provocative stuff.

Hound,

Gray did get a huge cheer when he came on and all songs were sang with fervour by everyone from whatever Nationality and that's why for me Lions tours are that extra bit special.

I appreciate not everyone is (or will be) lucky enough to go on a tour but I have yet to meet anyone who has been on one not enjoy the whole unique experience.

Yes there was some heated debates before all tests, the 3rd one especially but come match day there was no divide amongst the Nations that I witnessed.

by Cyril Mon Sep 02, 2013 9:06 pm

Can't we just write this one off as a decent win for the Lions against a sub-standard opposition (not a classic win like '97)?

Let's draw a line.

by flyhalffactory Mon Sep 02, 2013 9:06 pm

asoreleftshoulder wrote:
flyhalffactory wrote:
He damn well didn't..........

THE BALL HAD BEEN PASSED AND AAC HAD SCORED THE DAMN TRY BEFORE BOD ACTUALLY TOUCHED JOC...... THATS WHY FOXY WAS CAUGHT IN NO-MANS LAND....... ATTEMPTING TO COVER THE I/C LINE AND THE O/C LINE........ IF HE (DAVIES) HADN'T DELAYED THE COVER OF AAC THEN JOC WOULD HAVE HAD A FREE RUN IN BECAUSE NO WAY IN THE WORLD WAS BOD EVEN AWARE HE HAD THE BALL.

ARE WE GETTING THROUGH TO YOU?

Give me strength..... you just haven't got a clue have you

Want to try again?

Yep and I have revised my statement then (see MrsP comments) I have stated comments the link so many times I came up with an error of statement

But just for you............
at
7.48 the ball came out of the breakdown to JOC
7.52 the ball is passed to a rampaging AAC from JOC
7.53 BOD tackles JOC, AAC runs onto the pass into gap between Foxy and BOD.... try and game over....... its a split nano second between pass, tackle and try but hell who cares the damage was done 15 seconds before that and many times between the 60 seconds building up to that. Its all about managing the game.

by Hound of Harrow Mon Sep 02, 2013 9:10 pm

None at all Beds. Before the Rebels game there was a Scottish piper on a raised area in front of the ground. Every Lions fan heading to the game applauded him whole heartedly.

I've always 'got' the Lions concept, but being there was special, with all the fans just enjoying themselves.

by bedfordwelsh Mon Sep 02, 2013 9:12 pm

Hound of Harrow wrote:None at all Beds. Before the Rebels game there was a Scottish piper on a raised area in front of the ground. Every Lions fan heading to the game applauded him whole heartedly.

I've always 'got' the Lions concept, but being there was special, with all the fans just enjoying themselves.

He was there outside the Melbourne test as well, great atmosphere

by flyhalffactory Mon Sep 02, 2013 9:12 pm

Cyril wrote:Can't we just write this one off as a decent win for the Lions against a sub-standard opposition (not a classic win like '97)?

Let's draw a line.

Agree with you Cyril....... it was a win and will go down on the records as that, but not a great (or a great one) tour in many respects dependant on opinions.

I would like to add the Irish and English (ok....and the Welsh boxing

) are always welcome in my household as long as they bring a bottle...... doesn't matter what game we are watching Hug

by Taylorman Mon Sep 02, 2013 9:13 pm

...Still the most talked about non event of all time. All this discussion over what some 'perceive' as crucial to the non BOD selection. Well it aint. Its a pairing that didnt work...on attack. There was a greater chance of the tried and true combination of JD and Roberst working than any other, in Gats mind. And he was right.

You guys are still sprawling on the ground from missing that one, and will continue to be left in the dust long, long after the series win.

Amazing how narrow minded people can be.

by Sin é Mon Sep 02, 2013 9:14 pm

bedfordwelsh wrote:
Hound,

Gray did get a huge cheer when he came on and all songs were sang with fervour by everyone from whatever Nationality and that's why for me Lions tours are that extra bit special.

I appreciate not everyone is (or will be) lucky enough to go on a tour but I have yet to meet anyone who has been on one not enjoy the whole unique experience.

Yes there was some heated debates before all tests, the 3rd one especially but come match day there was no divide amongst the Nations that I witnessed.

There was an article recently about the Lions Tour - basically they said win, lose or draw, the followers enjoy it. Its just a giant urine-up for them. The followers don't have the same emotional investment in the Lions that they do have in their own club or country so their mood isn't upset by a loss.

by asoreleftshoulder Mon Sep 02, 2013 9:24 pm

flyhalffactory wrote:
OK I will provide you all the rope you want to hang yourself

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cETSHAnswos
OK STOP IT at
7.47 - just as the ball is coming out I see 3 Aussies JOC/AAC/TOMANE and I see DAVIES/BOWE...... a knackered Lydiate is next to Davies then BOD is in the rear centre of the ruck. Davies at this point tells BOD there is an Aussie overlap and he doesn't even look at Davies.
SO TELL ME WHERE ARE THE FOUR DEFENDERS COVERING THE THREE AUSSIES at that point.

7.48 - BOD ushers a knackered Lydiate to the base of the ruck but doesn't move himself and still is looking at the defensive breakdown.

7.49 - AT THE POINT THE BALL FLEW OUT OF THE BREAKDOWN TO AAC - tell me the FOUR lions defenders on the right hand side of the ruck......
I can STILL see Bowe covering the left winger TOMANE and Davies covering both the 13 and 12 slots in this case ASHLEY-COOPER and JOC..... you can now see Davies moving to cut off the JOC angle to AAC, BOD is still looking at Lydiate.

7.50 - Wonders never cease BOD begins to move - by this time JOC has had the ball for nearly 2 seconds if you freezeframe it now BOD is not even in the picture, but JOC has already run 5 metres and there is a clear 3-2 overlap with a tight 5 x 5 metre box in which Bowe and Davies has to defend against 3 aussies

7.51-7.52 - BOD still hasn't even touched JOC...... and the ball has been released to a rampaging AAC who picks it up full flight on the 5 metre line. Davies attempts to realign but cannae make it

7.53 - BOD tackles JOC or technically he hasn't as you can't tackle a man when the ball has already gone - Ahem BOD smell the coffee its already a TRY

You tell me at what point when the ball comes out of the breakdown are there 4 defenders in line against the 3 aussies?

Using the video you posted and the time stamps you've given

7.47
Jonathan Davies victim of Twitter abuse and threats after displacing Brian O'Driscoll in Lions side for deciding Test - Page 19 Wallab11

Jonathan Davies victim of Twitter abuse and threats after displacing Brian O'Driscoll in Lions side for deciding Test - Page 19 Wallab11

Where do you see JOC/AAC/TOMANE and Davies/Bowe cos they aren't in the shot.

7.48
Jonathan Davies victim of Twitter abuse and threats after displacing Brian O'Driscoll in Lions side for deciding Test - Page 19 Wallab12

Jonathan Davies victim of Twitter abuse and threats after displacing Brian O'Driscoll in Lions side for deciding Test - Page 19 Wallab12

Lydiate is at the right of the breakdown,BoD ushered him over several seconds ago.

7.49
Jonathan Davies victim of Twitter abuse and threats after displacing Brian O'Driscoll in Lions side for deciding Test - Page 19 Wallab14

Jonathan Davies victim of Twitter abuse and threats after displacing Brian O'Driscoll in Lions side for deciding Test - Page 19 Wallab14

The 4 players circled are to the right of the breakdown,you can see the ball circled in black so it would have to be a huge breakdown for Lydiate to be behind it.

7.50
Jonathan Davies victim of Twitter abuse and threats after displacing Brian O'Driscoll in Lions side for deciding Test - Page 19 Wallab15

Jonathan Davies victim of Twitter abuse and threats after displacing Brian O'Driscoll in Lions side for deciding Test - Page 19 Wallab15

Of course BoD now begins to move,he is restricted by the offside law before this but now that the ball has left the ruck he is free to move which he does immediately.

7.52
Jonathan Davies victim of Twitter abuse and threats after displacing Brian O'Driscoll in Lions side for deciding Test - Page 19 Wallab16

Jonathan Davies victim of Twitter abuse and threats after displacing Brian O'Driscoll in Lions side for deciding Test - Page 19 Wallab16

BoD has comfortably caught JoC 6 metres away from the try line while Davies is caught ball watching.

by flyhalffactory Mon Sep 02, 2013 9:35 pm

Tell you what asoreleftshoulder

7.52........... THE BALL HAS GONE...... THE BALL HAS GONE........ THE BALL HAS GONE steam

.......... BOD tackles a guy without the bleeding ball

You believe what you want........... play the still shots, look at all the different angles, stand on your bleeding head if you want to.

I will be happy in the knowledge to have viewed it with 18 other people including 2 Irish mates and we all agreed with my mate eventually who disagree that Foxy was at fault and whilst we all gaffawed at him....... he proved us all wrong.

And good night to you

by Cyril Mon Sep 02, 2013 9:37 pm

flyhalffactory wrote:I will be happy in the knowledge to have viewed it with 18 other people including 2 Irish mates and we all agreed with my mate eventually who disagree that Foxy was at fault and whilst we all gaffawed at him....... he proved us all wrong.

And good night to you

Night.

Sleep well.

Let's talk about rugby.

by theslosty Mon Sep 02, 2013 9:39 pm

asoreleftshoulder wrote:
flyhalffactory wrote:
OK I will provide you all the rope you want to hang yourself

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cETSHAnswos
OK STOP IT at
7.47 - just as the ball is coming out I see 3 Aussies JOC/AAC/TOMANE and I see DAVIES/BOWE...... a knackered Lydiate is next to Davies then BOD is in the rear centre of the ruck. Davies at this point tells BOD there is an Aussie overlap and he doesn't even look at Davies.
SO TELL ME WHERE ARE THE FOUR DEFENDERS COVERING THE THREE AUSSIES at that point.

7.48 - BOD ushers a knackered Lydiate to the base of the ruck but doesn't move himself and still is looking at the defensive breakdown.

7.49 - AT THE POINT THE BALL FLEW OUT OF THE BREAKDOWN TO AAC - tell me the FOUR lions defenders on the right hand side of the ruck......
I can STILL see Bowe covering the left winger TOMANE and Davies covering both the 13 and 12 slots in this case ASHLEY-COOPER and JOC..... you can now see Davies moving to cut off the JOC angle to AAC, BOD is still looking at Lydiate.

7.50 - Wonders never cease BOD begins to move - by this time JOC has had the ball for nearly 2 seconds if you freezeframe it now BOD is not even in the picture, but JOC has already run 5 metres and there is a clear 3-2 overlap with a tight 5 x 5 metre box in which Bowe and Davies has to defend against 3 aussies

7.51-7.52 - BOD still hasn't even touched JOC...... and the ball has been released to a rampaging AAC who picks it up full flight on the 5 metre line. Davies attempts to realign but cannae make it

7.53 - BOD tackles JOC or technically he hasn't as you can't tackle a man when the ball has already gone - Ahem BOD smell the coffee its already a TRY

You tell me at what point when the ball comes out of the breakdown are there 4 defenders in line against the 3 aussies?
Using the video you posted and the time stamps you've given

7.47

Where do you see JOC/AAC/TOMANE and Davies/Bowe cos they aren't in the shot.

7.48

Lydiate is at the right of the breakdown,BoD ushered him over several seconds ago.

7.49

The 4 players circled are to the right of the breakdown,you can see the ball circled in black so it would have to be a huge breakdown for Lydiate to be behind it.

7.50

Of course BoD now begins to move,he is restricted by the offside law before this but now that the ball has left the ruck he is free to move which he does immediately.

7.52

BoD has comfortably caught JoC 6 metres away from the try line while Davies is caught ball watching.

Absolutely correct asls. Goodnight.

by asoreleftshoulder Mon Sep 02, 2013 9:47 pm

flyhalffactory wrote:Tell you what asoreleftshoulder

7.52........... THE BALL HAS GONE...... THE BALL HAS GONE........ THE BALL HAS GONE .......... BOD tackles a guy without the bleeding ball

You believe what you want........... play the still shots, look at all the different angles, stand on your bleeding head if you want to.

I will be happy in the knowledge to have viewed it with 18 other people including 2 Irish mates and we all agreed with my mate eventually who disagree that Foxy was at fault and whilst we all gaffawed at him....... he proved us all wrong.

And good night to you

What's your point,you do realise that the player carrying the ball almost always has the option of passing before contact and there is nothing a defender can do about it.

by flyhalffactory Mon Sep 02, 2013 9:52 pm

what losty you agree that
* BOD tackled a man without the ball,
* That there was four men on the right of the ruck JUST WHEN THE BALL CAME OUT OF THE RUCK
* You think that BOD was in an offside position and had to wait until when....... the cows came home

Amazing but not surprising

by theslosty Mon Sep 02, 2013 9:54 pm

flyhalffactory wrote:what losty you agree that
* BOD tackled a man without the ball,
* That there was four men on the right of the ruck JUST WHEN THE BALL CAME OUT OF THE RUCK
* You think that BOD was in an offside position and had to wait until when....... the cows came home

Amazing but not surprising

Bang on.

by Cyril Mon Sep 02, 2013 10:03 pm

Has anyone won the Internet yet?

by HammerofThunor Mon Sep 02, 2013 10:05 pm

We need to get to 1000+ posts then they close it. Whoever posts last (not moderator) wins the Internet for good.

by Breadvan Mon Sep 02, 2013 10:09 pm

Mental thread. One for the v2 hall of fame. Mods must be passing around the whiskey bottle...

by HammerofThunor Mon Sep 02, 2013 10:15 pm

Yep and I have revised my statement then (see MrsP comments) I have stated comments the link so many times I came up with an error of statement

But just for you............
at
7.48 the ball came out of the breakdown to JOC
7.52 the ball is passed to a rampaging AAC from JOC
7.53 BOD tackles JOC, AAC runs onto the pass into gap between Foxy and BOD.... try and game over....... its a split nano second between pass, tackle and try but hell who cares the damage was done 15 seconds before that and many times between the 60 seconds building up to that. Its all about managing the game.

Between Foxy and who? Seriously, have you actually watched the video at all.

by Cyril Mon Sep 02, 2013 10:21 pm

Why is he called Foxy?

by The Great Aukster Mon Sep 02, 2013 10:24 pm

MrsP wrote:Did Davies recieve death threats?

Of course he should not have recieved any abuse in any way, shape or form but I didn't hear anything about death threats.

Also, although I repect both WJMcB and KW and their opinions, I am more than capable of forming my own and did so long before I had heard either of their views on the matter.

Are you sure about that Mrs P? Apparently Wood and McBride are so persuasive they could be the new Saatchi and Saatchi. You may think that you are in possession of your own mind but actually you have been subliminally infused with anti-Davies vitriolic paranoia from these two masterminds.

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