IRB confirms first yellow for Bismarck du Plessis was a mistake
+15
Norfolklass
ChequeredJersey
Taylorman
GloriousEmpire
The Saint
yappysnap
Cyril
emack2
Standulstermen
Knowsit17
Biltong
No 7&1/2
majesticimperialman
InjuredYetAgain
Rugby Fan
19 posters
The v2 Forum :: Sport :: Rugby Union :: International
Page 1 of 2
Page 1 of 2 • 1, 2
IRB confirms first yellow for Bismarck du Plessis was a mistake
http://www.irb.com/newsmedia/mediazone/pressrelease/newsid=2068799.htmlFollowing an initial review, the IRB confirms that it was incorrect for referee Romain Poite to issue a yellow card to Bismarck du Plessis in the 17th minute of The Rugby Championship match between New Zealand and South Africa in Auckland on Saturday.
Just as players and coaches make mistakes, the decision was an unfortunate case of human error by the match officials, who, having reviewed the match, fully recognise and accept that they made a mistake in the application of law.
All match official performances are thoroughly reviewed and assessed by the IRB and are considered when appointments are made for future test matches.
Rugby Fan- Moderator
- Posts : 8155
Join date : 2012-09-14
Re: IRB confirms first yellow for Bismarck du Plessis was a mistake
Well at least it is a small step but I feel sorry for the SAffers as it won't change the result in the record books. I think the most galling part of the whole sorry incident was that the TMO had the chance to say to the ref that the tackle was perfectly fair and didn't take it or didn't make himself properly understood.
I'd say the TMO was as much at fault as the ref
I'd say the TMO was as much at fault as the ref
InjuredYetAgain- Posts : 1317
Join date : 2011-06-02
Age : 58
Location : Edinburgh
Re: IRB confirms first yellow for Bismarck du Plessis was a mistake
What baffles me about that yellow card is that Poite ASK the TMO too have a look at it. The TMO says their was no wrong doing and yet he still gave a yellow card.
majesticimperialman- Posts : 6170
Join date : 2011-02-11
Re: IRB confirms first yellow for Bismarck du Plessis was a mistake
Poite actually asked for the TMO to check the aftermath and said he had had a clear enough view of the tackle to make the decision himself so it's compltely on poite that he got it so wrong.
No 7&1/2- Posts : 31374
Join date : 2012-10-20
Re: IRB confirms first yellow for Bismarck du Plessis was a mistake
Yeah, I am sorry too.
Biltong- Moderator
- Posts : 26945
Join date : 2011-04-27
Location : Twilight zone
Re: IRB confirms first yellow for Bismarck du Plessis was a mistake
Better than if the incident had just been waved away as past shoddy ref performances have been. Nice to know that Poite is at least flexible enough to recognise and admit his errors unlike some in the past.
Knowsit17- Posts : 3284
Join date : 2011-01-26
Age : 33
Location : Cardiff
Re: IRB confirms first yellow for Bismarck du Plessis was a mistake
The exact same thing happened in 2010 when Drew Mitchell was yellow carded unfairly, and then also received a red card later on, again, against the all Blacks.
That is when Pieter de Villiers made the comment of preference to NZ as the world cup was going to be held in NZ the next year.
At the time the stats showed NZ got a yellow card every 42 penalties, OZ a yellow card every 7 penalties and SA one every 6 penalties.
It seems the referees are in awe of NZ and thus make decision against other temas for whatever reasons.
That is when Pieter de Villiers made the comment of preference to NZ as the world cup was going to be held in NZ the next year.
At the time the stats showed NZ got a yellow card every 42 penalties, OZ a yellow card every 7 penalties and SA one every 6 penalties.
It seems the referees are in awe of NZ and thus make decision against other temas for whatever reasons.
Biltong- Moderator
- Posts : 26945
Join date : 2011-04-27
Location : Twilight zone
Re: IRB confirms first yellow for Bismarck du Plessis was a mistake
Dont think any blame can be attached to the TMO as poite told him he was happy with his view of the tackle. Bad decision. I would expect the red to be rescinded?????
Standulstermen- Posts : 5451
Join date : 2011-02-16
Age : 41
Re: IRB confirms first yellow for Bismarck du Plessis was a mistake
The citing then becomes a formality if IRB says it`s only one Yellow then presumeably no further action will be taken.Seems most poster s here thing had Bismarck stayed on the Boks would have walked it.Seem to recall there 4 Yellows given two late in the game but since the Boks are such strong finishers of a game.Take a look at the incidents by BOTH sides which could have been punished by yellow cards too.
emack2- Posts : 3686
Join date : 2011-04-01
Age : 81
Location : Bournemouth
Re: IRB confirms first yellow for Bismarck du Plessis was a mistake
This seems fair enough. A mistake was made and admitted. Human error. It's tough but it happens.Just as players and coaches make mistakes, the decision was an unfortunate case of human error by the match officials, who, having reviewed the match, fully recognise and accept that they made a mistake in the application of law.
Hopefully players and coaches will recognise when they've made mistakes too.
Cyril- Posts : 7162
Join date : 2012-11-16
Re: IRB confirms first yellow for Bismarck du Plessis was a mistake
Utter rubbish mate. Not a single poster has said that. What people are tired of is NZ getting an easy ride on the back of poor refs.emack2 wrote:The citing then becomes a formality if IRB says it`s only one Yellow then presumeably no further action will be taken.Seems most poster s here thing had Bismarck stayed on the Boks would have walked it.Seem to recall there 4 Yellows given two late in the game but since the Boks are such strong finishers of a game.Take a look at the incidents by BOTH sides which could have been punished by yellow cards too.
I know you love the AB's but come on, it was a cowpat decision made against the team playing the AB's and it isn't the first. As a neutral I don't care about SA winning or losing but Poite and his idiot reffing ruined what should have been a very good game and handed the match to a NZ team who are good enough to win their own games without help. If it hadn't been Dan Carter getting tackled then no one would of cared. In fact I'm fairly sure Nonu has made far worse tackles all RC and only just got yellowed for one finally.
yappysnap- Posts : 11993
Join date : 2011-06-01
Age : 36
Location : Christchurch, NZ
Re: IRB confirms first yellow for Bismarck du Plessis was a mistake
+ 1. Well said. Cue GE telling me i'm anti-all black.yappysnap wrote:Utter rubbish mate. Not a single poster has said that. What people are tired of is NZ getting an easy ride on the back of poor refs.emack2 wrote:The citing then becomes a formality if IRB says it`s only one Yellow then presumeably no further action will be taken.Seems most poster s here thing had Bismarck stayed on the Boks would have walked it.Seem to recall there 4 Yellows given two late in the game but since the Boks are such strong finishers of a game.Take a look at the incidents by BOTH sides which could have been punished by yellow cards too.
I know you love the AB's but come on, it was a cowpat decision made against the team playing the AB's and it isn't the first. As a neutral I don't care about SA winning or losing but Poite and his idiot reffing ruined what should have been a very good game and handed the match to a NZ team who are good enough to win their own games without help. If it hadn't been Dan Carter getting tackled then no one would of cared. In fact I'm fairly sure Nonu has made far worse tackles all RC and only just got yellowed for one finally.
The Saint- Posts : 6046
Join date : 2013-05-04
Age : 35
Location : South-East Region
Re: IRB confirms first yellow for Bismarck du Plessis was a mistake
Why should it change the result in books? NZ were looking good for a win anyway.InjuredYetAgain wrote:Well at least it is a small step but I feel sorry for the SAffers as it won't change the result in the record books. I think the most galling part of the whole sorry incident was that the TMO had the chance to say to the ref that the tackle was perfectly fair and didn't take it or didn't make himself properly understood.
I'd say the TMO was as much at fault as the ref
If you want to know the reason (contrary to some assertions that referee mistake ALWAYS favour NZ) then look no further than the failure to card Juan a week earlier that cost NZ a bonus point try.
The referee would have been desperate not to repeat a mistake inflicted on NZ the week before.
GloriousEmpire- Posts : 4411
Join date : 2013-01-28
Age : 51
Re: IRB confirms first yellow for Bismarck du Plessis was a mistake
well we dont need the irb to state the obvious and saying that NZ get preferential treatment from refs is pure rubbish. Wheres the proof that refs actually conspire and discuss this as a matter of course. Put up or shut up.
Taylorman- Posts : 12343
Join date : 2011-02-02
Location : Wellington NZ
Re: IRB confirms first yellow for Bismarck du Plessis was a mistake
So this was the redemption of last week at the cost of SA?GloriousEmpire wrote:Why should it change the result in books? NZ were looking good for a win anyway.InjuredYetAgain wrote:Well at least it is a small step but I feel sorry for the SAffers as it won't change the result in the record books. I think the most galling part of the whole sorry incident was that the TMO had the chance to say to the ref that the tackle was perfectly fair and didn't take it or didn't make himself properly understood.
I'd say the TMO was as much at fault as the ref
If you want to know the reason (contrary to some assertions that referee mistake ALWAYS favour NZ) then look no further than the failure to card Juan a week earlier that cost NZ a bonus point try.
The referee would have been desperate not to repeat a mistake inflicted on NZ the week before.
Biltong- Moderator
- Posts : 26945
Join date : 2011-04-27
Location : Twilight zone
Re: IRB confirms first yellow for Bismarck du Plessis was a mistake
Biltong I'm sorry but this is bitter rubbish and you are better than this.Biltong wrote:The exact same thing happened in 2010 when Drew Mitchell was yellow carded unfairly, and then also received a red card later on, again, against the all Blacks.
That is when Pieter de Villiers made the comment of preference to NZ as the world cup was going to be held in NZ the next year.
At the time the stats showed NZ got a yellow card every 42 penalties, OZ a yellow card every 7 penalties and SA one every 6 penalties.
It seems the referees are in awe of NZ and thus make decision against other temas for whatever reasons.
GloriousEmpire- Posts : 4411
Join date : 2013-01-28
Age : 51
Re: IRB confirms first yellow for Bismarck du Plessis was a mistake
Not deliberately so, but recent mistakes play on the mind And influence the present. Recall Wayne Barne's famous return to refereeing the all blacks where he penalised Ireland off the field?Biltong wrote:So this was the redemption of last week at the cost of SA?GloriousEmpire wrote:Why should it change the result in books? NZ were looking good for a win anyway.InjuredYetAgain wrote:Well at least it is a small step but I feel sorry for the SAffers as it won't change the result in the record books. I think the most galling part of the whole sorry incident was that the TMO had the chance to say to the ref that the tackle was perfectly fair and didn't take it or didn't make himself properly understood.
I'd say the TMO was as much at fault as the ref
If you want to know the reason (contrary to some assertions that referee mistake ALWAYS favour NZ) then look no further than the failure to card Juan a week earlier that cost NZ a bonus point try.
The referee would have been desperate not to repeat a mistake inflicted on NZ the week before.
GloriousEmpire- Posts : 4411
Join date : 2013-01-28
Age : 51
Re: IRB confirms first yellow for Bismarck du Plessis was a mistake
No, I'll just diffuse this hysterical nonsense with facts. Like: nonu wasn't playing all rugby championship,The Saint wrote:+ 1. Well said. Cue GE telling me i'm anti-all black.yappysnap wrote:Utter rubbish mate. Not a single poster has said that. What people are tired of is NZ getting an easy ride on the back of poor refs.emack2 wrote:The citing then becomes a formality if IRB says it`s only one Yellow then presumeably no further action will be taken.Seems most poster s here thing had Bismarck stayed on the Boks would have walked it.Seem to recall there 4 Yellows given two late in the game but since the Boks are such strong finishers of a game.Take a look at the incidents by BOTH sides which could have been punished by yellow cards too.
I know you love the AB's but come on, it was a cowpat decision made against the team playing the AB's and it isn't the first. As a neutral I don't care about SA winning or losing but Poite and his idiot reffing ruined what should have been a very good game and handed the match to a NZ team who are good enough to win their own games without help. If it hadn't been Dan Carter getting tackled then no one would of cared. In fact I'm fairly sure Nonu has made far worse tackles all RC and only just got yellowed for one finally.
He was out with an injury and Francis Saili stepped in at 12. However the premise is laughable anyway.
You can always tell when NZ are approaching the peak of their power because its given away by the sound of vanquished opponents and nervous upcoming opponents bleating like lost lambs.
GloriousEmpire- Posts : 4411
Join date : 2013-01-28
Age : 51
Re: IRB confirms first yellow for Bismarck du Plessis was a mistake
Preferential treatment for the better team is natural and inevitable in terms of small things like 50-50 offside calls and play in the rucks- the ref knows McCaw can turnover ball like a deity and Conrad Smith is an exce3llent rush defender and so is more likely to give them the benefit of the doubt for these calls. The way to get around this is to play better. As for Bissie's first yellow, it was clearly an error but I would say an isolated one not related to the the phenomenon I refer to above. The second yellow was clearly a yellow, so once the first was given , Du Plessis was doomed on the second as it is just as wrong to not give a correct second yellow to even up an earlier error as it is to give an unmerited yellowTaylorman wrote:well we dont need the irb to state the obvious and saying that NZ get preferential treatment from refs is pure rubbish. Wheres the proof that refs actually conspire and discuss this as a matter of course. Put up or shut up.
ChequeredJersey- Posts : 18707
Join date : 2011-12-23
Age : 35
Location : London, UK
Re: IRB confirms first yellow for Bismarck du Plessis was a mistake
well that makes them worse than ever then GE. If you think that refs think they need to 'make up' for previous transgressions then theyre not doing their job- again. Theyre there to apply the laws of the game. Full stop.All this is supposition and once again the career path of being an international referee is once again a less favourable one.
One day a ref is going to be targeted physically by some over zealous 'fan' and that will change the game completely. Refs will only play where they think it is safe. Then lets watch the quality plummet... further
One day a ref is going to be targeted physically by some over zealous 'fan' and that will change the game completely. Refs will only play where they think it is safe. Then lets watch the quality plummet... further
Taylorman- Posts : 12343
Join date : 2011-02-02
Location : Wellington NZ
Re: IRB confirms first yellow for Bismarck du Plessis was a mistake
I'm not saying they do it consciously Taylorman, but its part of human psychology to suffer from recentism, in making decisions based on recent mistakes. It's how we learned to not eat the poison berries and got out of the trees.
GloriousEmpire- Posts : 4411
Join date : 2013-01-28
Age : 51
Re: IRB confirms first yellow for Bismarck du Plessis was a mistake
GE is right (in my opinion)
ChequeredJersey- Posts : 18707
Join date : 2011-12-23
Age : 35
Location : London, UK
Re: IRB confirms first yellow for Bismarck du Plessis was a mistake
I'm not saying they do it consciously Taylorman, but its part of human psychology to suffer from recentism, in making decisions based on recent mistakes. It's how we learned to not eat the poison berries and got out of the trees.
For example if you think there will be a foul play yellow against SA for the rest of this RC then you are sorely deluded.
For example if you think there will be a foul play yellow against SA for the rest of this RC then you are sorely deluded.
GloriousEmpire- Posts : 4411
Join date : 2013-01-28
Age : 51
Re: IRB confirms first yellow for Bismarck du Plessis was a mistake
Well, there might be if it is barn-door foul play!GloriousEmpire wrote:I'm not saying they do it consciously Taylorman, but its part of human psychology to suffer from recentism, in making decisions based on recent mistakes. It's how we learned to not eat the poison berries and got out of the trees.
For example if you think there will be a foul play yellow against SA for the rest of this RC then you are sorely deluded.
ChequeredJersey- Posts : 18707
Join date : 2011-12-23
Age : 35
Location : London, UK
Re: IRB confirms first yellow for Bismarck du Plessis was a mistake
So then by that theory south africa will benefit from recentism against the Wallabies as they are our next opponent?
Biltong- Moderator
- Posts : 26945
Join date : 2011-04-27
Location : Twilight zone
Re: IRB confirms first yellow for Bismarck du Plessis was a mistake
Not sure you'll need it...Biltong wrote:So then by that theory south africa will benefit from recentism against the Wallabies as they are our next opponent?
ChequeredJersey- Posts : 18707
Join date : 2011-12-23
Age : 35
Location : London, UK
Re: IRB confirms first yellow for Bismarck du Plessis was a mistake
Still opinion chequrered, probably one you feel is suported by all sorts of decisions, but I say again- aslk any fref to confirm tht is a true reflection of how refs interpret a match then youll get a negative every time.ChequeredJersey wrote:Preferential treatment for the better team is natural and inevitable in terms of small things like 50-50 offside calls and play in the rucks- the ref knows McCaw can turnover ball like a deity and Conrad Smith is an exce3llent rush defender and so is more likely to give them the benefit of the doubt for these calls. The way to get around this is to play better. As for Bissie's first yellow, it was clearly an error but I would say an isolated one not related to the the phenomenon I refer to above. The second yellow was clearly a yellow, so once the first was given , Du Plessis was doomed on the second as it is just as wrong to not give a correct second yellow to even up an earlier error as it is to give an unmerited yellowTaylorman wrote:well we dont need the irb to state the obvious and saying that NZ get preferential treatment from refs is pure rubbish. Wheres the proof that refs actually conspire and discuss this as a matter of course. Put up or shut up.
Du plessis's action was another example of dumb rugby- something I alluded to in another post. To raise the elbow in that manner affter being carded puts him, and his side in a vulnerable position, so why do it? dumb? frustration? Either way. It cost them. He should have known that. Again supports the fact that the over aggressive approach dosnt help them.
Taylorman- Posts : 12343
Join date : 2011-02-02
Location : Wellington NZ
Re: IRB confirms first yellow for Bismarck du Plessis was a mistake
Taylorman wrote:Still opinion chequrered, probably one you feel is suported by all sorts of decisions, but I say again- ask any ref to confirm that is a true reflection of how refs interpret a match then youll get a negative every time.ChequeredJersey wrote:Preferential treatment for the better team is natural and inevitable in terms of small things like 50-50 offside calls and play in the rucks- the ref knows McCaw can turnover ball like a deity and Conrad Smith is an exce3llent rush defender and so is more likely to give them the benefit of the doubt for these calls. The way to get around this is to play better. As for Bissie's first yellow, it was clearly an error but I would say an isolated one not related to the the phenomenon I refer to above. The second yellow was clearly a yellow, so once the first was given , Du Plessis was doomed on the second as it is just as wrong to not give a correct second yellow to even up an earlier error as it is to give an unmerited yellowTaylorman wrote:well we dont need the irb to state the obvious and saying that NZ get preferential treatment from refs is pure rubbish. Wheres the proof that refs actually conspire and discuss this as a matter of course. Put up or shut up.
Du plessis's action was another example of dumb rugby- something I alluded to in another post. To raise the elbow in that manner after being carded puts him, and his side in a vulnerable position, so why do it? dumb? frustration? Either way. It cost them. He should have known that. Again supports the fact that the over aggressive approach dosnt help them.
Taylorman- Posts : 12343
Join date : 2011-02-02
Location : Wellington NZ
Re: IRB confirms first yellow for Bismarck du Plessis was a mistake
Taylorman wrote:Still opinion chequrered, probably one you feel is suported by all sorts of decisions, but I say again- aslk any fref to confirm tht is a true reflection of how refs interpret a match then youll get a negative every time.ChequeredJersey wrote:Preferential treatment for the better team is natural and inevitable in terms of small things like 50-50 offside calls and play in the rucks- the ref knows McCaw can turnover ball like a deity and Conrad Smith is an exce3llent rush defender and so is more likely to give them the benefit of the doubt for these calls. The way to get around this is to play better. As for Bissie's first yellow, it was clearly an error but I would say an isolated one not related to the the phenomenon I refer to above. The second yellow was clearly a yellow, so once the first was given , Du Plessis was doomed on the second as it is just as wrong to not give a correct second yellow to even up an earlier error as it is to give an unmerited yellowTaylorman wrote:well we dont need the irb to state the obvious and saying that NZ get preferential treatment from refs is pure rubbish. Wheres the proof that refs actually conspire and discuss this as a matter of course. Put up or shut up.
Du plessis's action was another example of dumb rugby- something I alluded to in another post. To raise the elbow in that manner affter being carded puts him, and his side in a vulnerable position, so why do it? dumb? frustration? Either way. It cost them. He should have known that. Again supports the fact that the over aggressive approach dosnt help them.
Most of the time when I am subject to bias I am not aware/conscious of the fact that I am, if I were then I would attempt to neutralise said bias and would probably invert it
ChequeredJersey- Posts : 18707
Join date : 2011-12-23
Age : 35
Location : London, UK
Re: IRB confirms first yellow for Bismarck du Plessis was a mistake
i don't think so either, but according to GE's theoryChequeredJersey wrote:Not sure you'll need it...Biltong wrote:So then by that theory south africa will benefit from recentism against the Wallabies as they are our next opponent?
Biltong- Moderator
- Posts : 26945
Join date : 2011-04-27
Location : Twilight zone
Re: IRB confirms first yellow for Bismarck du Plessis was a mistake
Yes. Inevitably. Do you think there is a referee brave enough to wield a yellow card at a SA player in the return match? Unless he is 500% certain? This will mean SA will get away with fringe foul play, slowing the ball incessantly and so on.
In my opinion the All Blacks are facing a 130% gradient in the match.
In my opinion the All Blacks are facing a 130% gradient in the match.
GloriousEmpire- Posts : 4411
Join date : 2013-01-28
Age : 51
Re: IRB confirms first yellow for Bismarck du Plessis was a mistake
Perhaps, and that would be wrong. Two wrongs dont make a right so what youre really saying is refs get it doubly wrong, spend their days on the field making right previous transgressions, as well as having to know and apply all those rules at the same time.ChequeredJersey wrote:Most of the time when I am subject to bias I am not aware/conscious of the fact that I am, if I were then I would attempt to neutralise said bias and would probably invert itTaylorman wrote:Still opinion chequrered, probably one you feel is suported by all sorts of decisions, but I say again- aslk any fref to confirm tht is a true reflection of how refs interpret a match then youll get a negative every time.ChequeredJersey wrote:Preferential treatment for the better team is natural and inevitable in terms of small things like 50-50 offside calls and play in the rucks- the ref knows McCaw can turnover ball like a deity and Conrad Smith is an exce3llent rush defender and so is more likely to give them the benefit of the doubt for these calls. The way to get around this is to play better. As for Bissie's first yellow, it was clearly an error but I would say an isolated one not related to the the phenomenon I refer to above. The second yellow was clearly a yellow, so once the first was given , Du Plessis was doomed on the second as it is just as wrong to not give a correct second yellow to even up an earlier error as it is to give an unmerited yellowTaylorman wrote:well we dont need the irb to state the obvious and saying that NZ get preferential treatment from refs is pure rubbish. Wheres the proof that refs actually conspire and discuss this as a matter of course. Put up or shut up.
Du plessis's action was another example of dumb rugby- something I alluded to in another post. To raise the elbow in that manner affter being carded puts him, and his side in a vulnerable position, so why do it? dumb? frustration? Either way. It cost them. He should have known that. Again supports the fact that the over aggressive approach dosnt help them.
Youd wonder how theyd get anything right with all that ground to cover.
Taylorman- Posts : 12343
Join date : 2011-02-02
Location : Wellington NZ
Re: IRB confirms first yellow for Bismarck du Plessis was a mistake
For example, a scrum dominant in the early parts of a match will frequently win a penalty even if it is they who have collapsed the scrum, because:
a) the referee has seen that they are the better scrummagers and thus more likely to be forcing the opposition to collapse the scrum
and vitally
b) the rules of rugby and the number of things needed to be watched at any time to have a complete picture are very complex and thus the referee HAS to allow assumption and bias to guide him towards what the most likely happenstance is. He can't see everything, so like all good humans he is inferring from his past experience in similar situations as to what is the most likely cause of the collapsed scrum. This will also subconsciously and inevitably be influenced by his opinion of the prowess of each of the scrummagers before the match even started.
We are all subject to biases, they are unavoidable and actually very useful much of the time
a) the referee has seen that they are the better scrummagers and thus more likely to be forcing the opposition to collapse the scrum
and vitally
b) the rules of rugby and the number of things needed to be watched at any time to have a complete picture are very complex and thus the referee HAS to allow assumption and bias to guide him towards what the most likely happenstance is. He can't see everything, so like all good humans he is inferring from his past experience in similar situations as to what is the most likely cause of the collapsed scrum. This will also subconsciously and inevitably be influenced by his opinion of the prowess of each of the scrummagers before the match even started.
We are all subject to biases, they are unavoidable and actually very useful much of the time
ChequeredJersey- Posts : 18707
Join date : 2011-12-23
Age : 35
Location : London, UK
Re: IRB confirms first yellow for Bismarck du Plessis was a mistake
Wrong yet unavoidable. You have to trust their judgement though. It's not perfect but like logic, there is no better system we can come up with right now so we'd all better man up and deal with it, flaws and allTaylorman wrote:Perhaps, and that would be wrong. Two wrongs dont make a right so what youre really saying is refs get it doubly wrong, spend their days on the field making right previous transgressions, as well as having to know and apply all those rules at the same time.ChequeredJersey wrote:Most of the time when I am subject to bias I am not aware/conscious of the fact that I am, if I were then I would attempt to neutralise said bias and would probably invert itTaylorman wrote:Still opinion chequrered, probably one you feel is suported by all sorts of decisions, but I say again- aslk any fref to confirm tht is a true reflection of how refs interpret a match then youll get a negative every time.ChequeredJersey wrote:Preferential treatment for the better team is natural and inevitable in terms of small things like 50-50 offside calls and play in the rucks- the ref knows McCaw can turnover ball like a deity and Conrad Smith is an exce3llent rush defender and so is more likely to give them the benefit of the doubt for these calls. The way to get around this is to play better. As for Bissie's first yellow, it was clearly an error but I would say an isolated one not related to the the phenomenon I refer to above. The second yellow was clearly a yellow, so once the first was given , Du Plessis was doomed on the second as it is just as wrong to not give a correct second yellow to even up an earlier error as it is to give an unmerited yellowTaylorman wrote:well we dont need the irb to state the obvious and saying that NZ get preferential treatment from refs is pure rubbish. Wheres the proof that refs actually conspire and discuss this as a matter of course. Put up or shut up.
Du plessis's action was another example of dumb rugby- something I alluded to in another post. To raise the elbow in that manner affter being carded puts him, and his side in a vulnerable position, so why do it? dumb? frustration? Either way. It cost them. He should have known that. Again supports the fact that the over aggressive approach dosnt help them.
Youd wonder how theyd get anything right with all that ground to cover.
ChequeredJersey- Posts : 18707
Join date : 2011-12-23
Age : 35
Location : London, UK
Re: IRB confirms first yellow for Bismarck du Plessis was a mistake
I'm sure this didn't say 'Insane Conspiracy Theory Thread' when I clicked on it.
Cyril- Posts : 7162
Join date : 2012-11-16
Re: IRB confirms first yellow for Bismarck du Plessis was a mistake
It's a thread on 606. You should have known betterCyril wrote:I'm sure this didn't say 'Insane Conspiracy Theory Thread' when I clicked on it.
ChequeredJersey- Posts : 18707
Join date : 2011-12-23
Age : 35
Location : London, UK
Re: IRB confirms first yellow for Bismarck du Plessis was a mistake
BismarkdP is one of the best players in the world. The whole spectacle of the game was ruined by Poite.
Norfolklass- Posts : 217
Join date : 2012-03-25
Age : 37
Location : Darkest Norfolk
Re: IRB confirms first yellow for Bismarck du Plessis was a mistake
Yes I agree withe chequered. I think some percentage of the game is anticipated by referees rather than actually witnessed.
Remember a few years back when bakkies Botha was given a yellow card after about 30 seconds because the ref thought he'd kneed Richie McCaw in the head? It was all based on what all three protagonists brought into the game and not what happened on the field.
Forward wind a few seasons and we saw an ensuing great reluctance to sin bin SA players for foul play and so we had Dean Greylings flying elbow to the head occurring because fouling McCaw was so acceptable and largely unpunished.
Well, the pendulum has just swung back.
Remember a few years back when bakkies Botha was given a yellow card after about 30 seconds because the ref thought he'd kneed Richie McCaw in the head? It was all based on what all three protagonists brought into the game and not what happened on the field.
Forward wind a few seasons and we saw an ensuing great reluctance to sin bin SA players for foul play and so we had Dean Greylings flying elbow to the head occurring because fouling McCaw was so acceptable and largely unpunished.
Well, the pendulum has just swung back.
GloriousEmpire- Posts : 4411
Join date : 2013-01-28
Age : 51
Re: IRB confirms first yellow for Bismarck du Plessis was a mistake
Oh my goodness, what rubbish you spout.
Biltong- Moderator
- Posts : 26945
Join date : 2011-04-27
Location : Twilight zone
Re: IRB confirms first yellow for Bismarck du Plessis was a mistake
However, this is all off topic. There is no way in hell that the first yellow was a foul and the thought processes behind the referee's decision must be called into question
ChequeredJersey- Posts : 18707
Join date : 2011-12-23
Age : 35
Location : London, UK
Re: IRB confirms first yellow for Bismarck du Plessis was a mistake
2009 John Smit is dumped on his head right in front of the referee by Thorne, no card, Smit is out for nine months after a neck operation.
See how easy it is, which swibg do we take next?
See how easy it is, which swibg do we take next?
Biltong- Moderator
- Posts : 26945
Join date : 2011-04-27
Location : Twilight zone
Re: IRB confirms first yellow for Bismarck du Plessis was a mistake
Accept the truth BT. Give in to your feelings. You know it to be true. Bryce Lawrence is your father.
GloriousEmpire- Posts : 4411
Join date : 2013-01-28
Age : 51
Re: IRB confirms first yellow for Bismarck du Plessis was a mistake
The fact is we don't need the IRB to confirm it was a mistake. We all know I was a mistake.
What they did to do is tell is what they're doing about it, not just that it will be taken into account in future appointments.
Truth I theyre running out of refs to appoint. Because the small pool is full of largely incompetents and the whole selection process is clearly affected by cultural bias.
What they did to do is tell is what they're doing about it, not just that it will be taken into account in future appointments.
Truth I theyre running out of refs to appoint. Because the small pool is full of largely incompetents and the whole selection process is clearly affected by cultural bias.
GloriousEmpire- Posts : 4411
Join date : 2013-01-28
Age : 51
Re: IRB confirms first yellow for Bismarck du Plessis was a mistake
agree. the thought that refs all carry around this baggage and actually make decisions based on historical events is absurd. They deserve a little more credit than that. Fans making suppositions about the supposed intentions of referees are far worse. Poite stuffed up...Lawrence stuffed up...Barnes stuffed up. Simple as that. They all failed to apply the laws correctly. Any accusations of deliberate intention to favour one side or another is, by absence of any admission or facts, rubbish.
Taylorman- Posts : 12343
Join date : 2011-02-02
Location : Wellington NZ
Re: IRB confirms first yellow for Bismarck du Plessis was a mistake
Apart from the conspiracy theories: I think a real issue is Refs being swayed by crowd 'pressure'. After Bissie's hit, the crowd went wild, baying for blood as it were. This, no doubt impacts a referee's decision-making process.
Mr Fishpaste- Posts : 771
Join date : 2011-07-26
Re: IRB confirms first yellow for Bismarck du Plessis was a mistake
TM, it's not deliberate, but they'll still be doing it. It's fairly basic psychology
ChequeredJersey- Posts : 18707
Join date : 2011-12-23
Age : 35
Location : London, UK
Re: IRB confirms first yellow for Bismarck du Plessis was a mistake
Taylorman wrote:agree. the thought that refs all carry around this baggage and actually make decisions based on historical events is absurd. They deserve a little more credit than that. Fans making suppositions about the supposed intentions of referees are far worse. Poite stuffed up...Lawrence stuffed up...Barnes stuffed up. Simple as that. They all failed to apply the laws correctly. Any accusations of deliberate intention to favour one side or another is, by absence of any admission or facts, rubbish.
You are refereeing the return match in SA Taylorman and you suspect a tackle is late and high and perpetrated by Bismark. It was off the ball and behind play slightly and your attention was on whether the pass was flat or forward so you caught it in your peripheral vision and you can't be 100% sure. Do you issue him a yellow card?
GloriousEmpire- Posts : 4411
Join date : 2013-01-28
Age : 51
Re: IRB confirms first yellow for Bismarck du Plessis was a mistake
Won't Bismark get an automatic ban as he got an unfair red card?GloriousEmpire wrote:You are refereeing the return match in SA Taylorman and you suspect a tackle is late and high and perpetrated by Bismark. It was off the ball and behind play slightly and your attention was on whether the pass was flat or forward so you caught it in your peripheral vision and you can't be 100% sure. Do you issue him a yellow card?Taylorman wrote:agree. the thought that refs all carry around this baggage and actually make decisions based on historical events is absurd. They deserve a little more credit than that. Fans making suppositions about the supposed intentions of referees are far worse. Poite stuffed up...Lawrence stuffed up...Barnes stuffed up. Simple as that. They all failed to apply the laws correctly. Any accusations of deliberate intention to favour one side or another is, by absence of any admission or facts, rubbish.
ChequeredJersey- Posts : 18707
Join date : 2011-12-23
Age : 35
Location : London, UK
Re: IRB confirms first yellow for Bismarck du Plessis was a mistake
You'd probably want to consult the TMO surely if you're unsure. Even if you are sure you would probably consult him after yesterday!
No 7&1/2- Posts : 31374
Join date : 2012-10-20
Re: IRB confirms first yellow for Bismarck du Plessis was a mistake
still supposition and if thats the case then he stuffed up under pressure. It meant he didnt apply the process of the TMO correctly and as we all heard the transcript, between the two they didnt resolve the incident correctly. Poite asked the wrong question...re the aftermath only and the tmo answered in that respect only, but could have offered what he thought about the tackle. stuffed up under pressure.Mr Fishpaste wrote:Apart from the conspiracy theories: I think a real issue is Refs being swayed by crowd 'pressure'. After Bissie's hit, the crowd went wild, baying for blood as it were. This, no doubt impacts a referee's decision-making process.
Taylorman- Posts : 12343
Join date : 2011-02-02
Location : Wellington NZ
Page 1 of 2 • 1, 2
Similar topics
» Du Plessis : Yellow Card Stands
» Bismarck sent off for tackling and handing off: someone should have told the Boks to prepare for a soccer match!
» Project Payne is a mistake
» Did Du Plessis Get Off Lightly?
» Du Plessis versus Weeks
» Bismarck sent off for tackling and handing off: someone should have told the Boks to prepare for a soccer match!
» Project Payne is a mistake
» Did Du Plessis Get Off Lightly?
» Du Plessis versus Weeks
The v2 Forum :: Sport :: Rugby Union :: International
Page 1 of 2
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum