Does Matthysse deserve a rematch?

by BallchinianMuffwig Mon 16 Sep 2013, 9:54 am

Okay fair due's to Garcia for showing a good chin and skills, but to be honest, the fight I saw was nip/tuck with Matthysse looking the more comfortable before the eye swelling incident which basically half blinded him. And people seem to forget Garcia hit him low at least 3 times, and they never looked typically accidental. And that was NOT a knockdown in round 11.

Does anyone think Matthysse should try and get a rematch?

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 16 Sep 2013, 9:58 am

BallchinianMuffwig wrote: And people seem to forget Garcia hit him low at least 3 times, and they never looked typically accidental.

I think you've shown your partiality there........

Sure give him a rematch but maybe watch Roberto Duran fight.......

by BallchinianMuffwig Mon 16 Sep 2013, 9:59 am

Yeah I won't pretend I'm not on the side of Matthysse here. At the end of the day, whether or not Duran made low-blowing popular, their still illegal moves. anyone whose taken one knows how much they can take out of you at their worst.

by Strongback Mon 16 Sep 2013, 10:01 am

Yes I think it would be a good fight. It was a great performance by Garcia and he deserves his dues. I'd have no problem watching that again.

by Guest Mon 16 Sep 2013, 10:24 am

Ok the low blows were illegal and he was docked a point but Garcia was winning the fight before the swelling and the swelling was caused by punches, its not as though he went into the fight with the swelling. I know what you mean about the knockdown but Garcia landed a good combination, then turned Matthysse landed more and Matthysse ends up on the floor and he never protested it nor did his corner. Matthysse can look for a rematch in the future but this was no robbery so he needs to win a few more and put himself back in contention. Power aside Matthysse is a little one dimensional, its Garcia with the skills and he will have learned more in that fight and will be better equipped to beat him again. Its a pity that people are trying to discredit Garcia's win.

by TopHat24/7 Mon 16 Sep 2013, 10:25 am

Yes, as Garcia barely deserved the win.

That eye lasts the twelve next time out and Garcia is a goner.

by TopHat24/7 Mon 16 Sep 2013, 10:27 am

sohotnot wrote:Ok the low blows were illegal and he was docked a point but Garcia was winning the fight before the swelling and the swelling was caused by punches, its not as though he went into the fight with the swelling. I know what you mean about the knockdown but Garcia landed a good combination, then turned Matthysse landed more and Matthysse ends up on the floor and he never protested it nor did his corner. Matthysse can look for a rematch in the future but this was no robbery so he needs to win a few more and put himself back in contention. Power aside Matthysse is a little one dimensional, its Garcia with the skills and he will have learned more in that fight and will be better equipped to beat him again. Its a pity that people are trying to discredit Garcia's win.

Was he?

I had him 4-2 down after 6, LM look comfortable and like he had his number.

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 16 Sep 2013, 10:30 am

Rematch history dictates that 80% or more go with the first fight victor.......

Garcia knows he can win and gains confident
Matty lost and will have lost confidence.......

second fight is logistically different............A fact you'd do well to remember especially when the skill level is pretty close..

by milkyboy Mon 16 Sep 2013, 10:37 am

I had Garcia 4-2 up after 6, though I'd given him a few close rounds so I could see another perspective. I thought it was competitive the whole way through, and although I had Garcia a clear winner on my card it felt like a closer fight than the scores suggested.

Fair and legitimate win for Garcia, so matthysse doesn't 'deserve' a rematch especially, but I think most people would be up for it.

I thought the knock down was legit, but it wasn't clear. Had that round gone to matthysse he would have won the fight. Which would have been contentious in my view.

by TopHat24/7 Mon 16 Sep 2013, 10:41 am

Confidence will certainly play a big part.

But when you have a freak element, like LM's eye in this case, the second result is never so easy to predict.

by Reborn-DeeMcK-Reborn Mon 16 Sep 2013, 10:43 am

(sigh)

I picked Matthysse by EKO in the prediction league based on Garcia's showing in the Judah fight.

But a little while ago I did a thread on here putting forward an arguement that Garcia is one of the most under rated fighters in the sport right now.

I don't get why people have a problem with him. He is a very good fighter and twice now he has been threw in against fighters (Khan & Lucas) who everyone, including myself expected him to not only get beat.....but to get tore up and spat out.

And now the excuses are coming out...

Khan fight: "Khan was dominating until Garcia caught him.."

Im sorry, but Garcia clearly had a plan, and he had 12 rounds to implement it. It took him about 7 minutes to figure Khan out. It was more impress than the Prescott knockout whereas Khan was skinny legged at lightweight. But the Roach trained Khan could only tee off on Garcia for 7/8 minutes before Garcia landed the shot he was looking for in the previous 2 rounds. It doesnt matter if Khan was "dominating" for 11 and a half rounds. Garcia knew what he was looking for and that left hook would have came sooner or later.

Matthysse fight: "If Matthysse didn't have a swollen eye he would have won"

Garcia did what he had to do at the beginning....stay as far away from them hands as he possibly could while pot shotting. As the fight wore on he give Lucas a decent shiner on his right eye and traded with more confidence. Now the excuses are coming out that had Lucas not had a swollen eye he would have won!!! Garcia gave him the swollen eye for cryin out loud. He worked on it in the last part of the fight. I thought this was a great key for his win. Lucas was reckless, and when his power became meaningless, he was a sitting duck. Great win for Danny and I am glad I got proved wrong again. I dont think Lucas will win a rematch. He had his shot and was beat fair and square. There are bigger fights out there now.

So again, Garcia is being under rated still, and maybe its a good thing as it is funny to see people acting like this win was some sort of fluke. It wasn't a fluke, he figured out how to take the power away from the power puncher and when that was done he fought as smart as you'll likely see any fighter doing these days. Plus he showed some nuts in the last 15 seconds to goad Matthysse in for a trade off. That was a class ending to the fight.

So, come one, show the guy a little respect.

by milkyboy Mon 16 Sep 2013, 11:05 am

Agree with most of the above dee. Re khan, it was no fluke because it was the game plan and there had been a few near misses before the left hook that dropped him. Don't think the game plan included him being tattooed for the first few rounds. Think he was genuinely concerned at how the fight was going.

Garcia has a good fighting brain and heart, good chin, good left hook, good allround boxing skills. Ultimately, a bit one paced and will always struggle with quick boxer's in my view.

by Strongback Mon 16 Sep 2013, 11:25 am

One thing I learned from the fight is Garcia has one hell of a chin. He took Matthyses' best shots and never looked in much trouble.

by milkyboy Mon 16 Sep 2013, 11:27 am

Think he was shaken a few times without being in real trouble. Showed good survival instincts to grab and hold, while he got himself together.

by Reborn-DeeMcK-Reborn Mon 16 Sep 2013, 11:31 am

milkyboy wrote:Agree with most of the above dee. Re khan, it was no fluke because it was the game plan and there had been a few near misses before the left hook that dropped him. Don't think the game plan included him being tattooed for the first few rounds. Think he was genuinely concerned at how the fight was going.

Garcia has a good fighting brain and heart, good chin, good left hook, good allround boxing skills. Ultimately, a bit one paced and will always struggle with quick boxer's in my view.

Yea but most fighter struggle with quick fighters. Even Floyd when he fought Judah for the first few rounds.

But what separates Garcia from Khan is patience. In that fight he just bided his time, he knew that when Khan came in on the attack he was vulnerable for the left. Seen that left hook miss by a whisker in the 2nd. So had the fight went on, Khan would have tired a little and the shot would have landed eventually so looking back on it I think Khan was screwed either way. Garcia knew what he needed to do.

Even against Lucas, Garcia kept focused. He fought incredibly smart as you would need to against a guy who can make you snore at any second.

He deserves a shot at Mayweather now (even though he will get beat on points). I have heard people say it wouldn't sell, but just remember.....Angel Garcia would be involved in the build up so you never know. I think the press conferences would be class!! Floyd Snr vs Angel. Yahoo

by mobilemaster8 Mon 16 Sep 2013, 11:35 am

Floyd knocks out Garcia.

by milkyboy Mon 16 Sep 2013, 11:37 am

The press conference would need a translator. Two unintelligible rambling lunatics spouting lengthy monologues. You watch it, and give me a brief synopsis afterwards.

by The Terror of Tylorstown Mon 16 Sep 2013, 11:46 am

mobilemaster8 wrote:Floyd knocks out Garcia.

I think that is highly unlikely, Matthyse landed his best punch a fair few times to barely any effect so don't think a weaker puncher knocks him out. He gets outclassed but no chance does he get knocked out.

In reply to a few others, Garcia was in control the whole fight, how the judges scored it so close is a travesty.

by Reborn-DeeMcK-Reborn Mon 16 Sep 2013, 11:51 am

The Terror of Tylorstown wrote:
mobilemaster8 wrote:Floyd knocks out Garcia.
I think that is highly unlikely, Matthyse landed his best punch a fair few times to barely any effect so don't think a weaker puncher knocks him out. He gets outclassed but no chance does he get knocked out.

In reply to a few others, Garcia was in control the whole fight, how the judges scored it so close is a travesty.

But that pesky Garcia swelled up Lucas' eye!!! If he hadn't of punched his eye, he would have lost.....apparently Whistle

by milkyboy Mon 16 Sep 2013, 11:55 am

borderline cheating... punching someone in the eye

by Reborn-DeeMcK-Reborn Mon 16 Sep 2013, 11:59 am

It was like when Garcia beat Khan.

I read comments on Khan's fan page on facebook stating that Garcia should have been DQ'ed because he punched Amir in the neck haha.

Some eejit wrote "its called boxing, not necking"

Maybe Garcia's next fight should have him fight with his left arm tied to his right foot behind his back and a blind fold on.

by sittingringside Mon 16 Sep 2013, 12:13 pm

If Garcia hadn't been better at boxing than Matthysse he would have lost.

by KingMonkey Mon 16 Sep 2013, 12:18 pm

On the basis that it was a good fight and I'd like to see it get its own billing then yeah, go for a rematch. But in reality Matthyse doesn't deserve one and I doubt very much if Garcia would want it. Would you??!

by School Project Mon 16 Sep 2013, 12:24 pm

I had the fight to Garcia: 116-110

Notable rounds for Matthysse were 2nd where he picked up the pace and let his hands go, but I thought that was a fairly close round as Garcia boxed well still.

I also gave Matthysse the 7th, he was very aggressived and started to puch through Garcias guard, but that's when the eye started to look a mess. I gave him the 10th round when he seemingly rocked Garcia at the beginning and swarmed him and then scored the 12th a 9-9 following the point deduction.

I didn't agree with the knockdown in the 11th but it had to be scored as it wasn't clear at the time whether he would have gone down if he hadn't had is head through the ropes.

Overall, I would say Garcia outboxed Matthysse handidly - at no point from the 3rd or 4th round on did it look like Matthysse "had Garcias number", at the time (and rewatching the fight) it seemed he was relying on one punch. He wasn't able to cut off the ring because Garcia was moving brilliantly and when pinned, Garcia was keeping Matthysse's hand completely glued to his head as he was throwing combinations > stepping away > jab to get outside.

I wouldn't call it a complete masterclass - but it was a brilliant display of boxing and with or without the eye/rematch, I could see it going the same way.

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 16 Sep 2013, 12:30 pm

You're right school I think........When we dislike someone we give the other guy the close rounds..

I gave Tucker 4 rounds against Tyson...........Watching it again sometime later after the Tyson era..

Struggled to give him 2............

Garcia's dad isn't helping come across.....

by Herman Jaeger Mon 16 Sep 2013, 12:36 pm

sittingringside wrote:If Garcia hadn't been better at boxing than Matthysse he would have lost.

A slightly flippant remark, Walcott was a better boxer than Marciano too.

The return could very well go the same way as the first, but all we Matthysse fans are asking for is a rematch and the Garcia(Khan in your case,) fans to acknowledge that there were extenuating circumstances, thus leaving an element of doubt.

by sittingringside Mon 16 Sep 2013, 12:59 pm

Herman Jaggery wrote:
sittingringside wrote:If Garcia hadn't been better at boxing than Matthysse he would have lost.
A slightly flippant remark, Walcott was a better boxer than Marciano too.

The return could very well go the same way as the first, but all we Matthysse fans are asking for is a rematch and the Garcia(Khan in your case,) fans to acknowledge that there were extenuating circumstances, thus leaving an element of doubt.

Walcott was a better 'boxer' than Marciano, if we take that to be in the sense it is often used; as a measure of ability to apply the conventional principles of classic boxing style. However, I would argue strongly that Walcott was not a better boxer than Marciano if we take the term as meaning 'a participant in the sport of boxing'.

With regards to the rematch, why not? It was a pretty good fight, competitive throughout and there can be no certainty that the result would be the same in a second encounter. What I think would be nice is if we could all agree that Matthysse was well beaten, if not so decisively as to rule out a rematch. The willingness to make excuses for Matthysse's performance based on injuries he sustained from the punches of his opponent astounds me.

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 16 Sep 2013, 1:03 pm

Funny thing about Walcott is he's unlucky..........

Should have beaten Louis..........Lost to a heavy-prime Charles a few times and then beat him twice...........

Arguably his win record is better than rocky who fought faded greats, useless Brits and lightheavies as champion........

He did outbox Marciano who got lucky If you get ever say anyone got lucky at boxing...

and he shed his load in the rematch.......

Much underrated is Jersey Joe.....Probably the greatest footwork in heavy history.

Marciano better not sure...had better timing though!!!!!!!!

by TopHat24/7 Mon 16 Sep 2013, 1:04 pm

KingMonkey wrote:On the basis that it was a good fight and I'd like to see it get its own billing then yeah, go for a rematch. But in reality Matthyse doesn't deserve one and I doubt very much if Garcia would want it. Would you??!

of course not, he dodged the bullet once already!! sure he just wants the PBF pay day now....

by milkyboy Mon 16 Sep 2013, 1:04 pm

i see the argument that it was a mitigating factor in the defeat... i.e had his eye not swollen up, its no certainty that garcia wins... particularly when you see how close the cards actually were. It's all part of boxing, so its not an excuse, but does contribute to the view that the return is no foregone conclusion - albeit garcia would be favourite.

by BoxingFan88 Mon 16 Sep 2013, 1:08 pm

I'm a big Matthysse fan and I would love to see a rematch, but I don't think Garcia has to give him one. He won that fight fair and square, the injury was caused by a punch, so it was all legal. Matthysse was getting on top before the injury, but the injury did happen.

Garcia deserves to be in the top 10 p4p list after that performance, showed a great chin, heart and skill.

Still think is dad is an A class fool, but he is a character... Can't blame Danny for that.

by **seanmichaels** Mon 16 Sep 2013, 1:10 pm

Garcia is getting a bit of a hard time here. Bar Pacquiao, Marquez and maybe FMJ (if he could still make it), he is the man at Lightwelter.

No one else at the weight can do better than Holt, Campbell, Morales, Khan, Judah and Mattysse.

A Broner match up could be lucrative for him.

by sittingringside Mon 16 Sep 2013, 1:13 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Funny thing about Walcott is he's unlucky..........

Should have beaten Louis..........Lost to a heavy-prime Charles a few times and then beat him twice...........

Arguably his win record is better than rocky who fought faded greats, useless Brits and lightheavies as champion........

He did outbox Marciano who got lucky If you get ever say anyone got lucky at boxing...

and he shed his load in the rematch.......

Much underrated is Jersey Joe.....Probably the greatest footwork in heavy history.

Marciano better not sure...had better timing though!!!!!!!!

I'm certainly not going to hijack the thread by debating the relative merits of Walcott and Marciano, my point was more to distinguish between the two senses of being 'better at boxing'. I am sure as a knowledgeable poster you could make a strong case for Wlacott's superiority to Marciano pound for pound given his achievements at the lower weights.

by sittingringside Mon 16 Sep 2013, 1:14 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:
KingMonkey wrote:On the basis that it was a good fight and I'd like to see it get its own billing then yeah, go for a rematch. But in reality Matthyse doesn't deserve one and I doubt very much if Garcia would want it. Would you??!
of course not, he dodged the bullet once already!! sure he just wants the PBF pay day now....

I hope we aren't going to be hearing calls that Garcia is 'ducking' a Matthysse rematch

by Herman Jaeger Mon 16 Sep 2013, 1:21 pm

sittingringside wrote:

Walcott was a better 'boxer' than Marciano, if we take that to be in the sense it is often used; as a measure of ability to apply the conventional principles of classic boxing style. However, I would argue strongly that Walcott was not a better boxer than Marciano if we take the term as meaning 'a participant in the sport of boxing'.

That's exactly what I said.

But why are you astounded? Is a footballer as effective when he breaks a metatarsal?

Take Abrahams. He had to retire in Steiglitz because of a freak eye injury. But would Steiglitz ever beat a two eyed Abraham? I really don't think so. We'll get the answer to that soon enough though, probably early next year in the decider. Not saying Matthysse's injury was as severe though, in terms of pain, just that it altered the flow of the fight at a crucial stage.

by School Project Mon 16 Sep 2013, 1:22 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:You're right school I think........When we dislike someone we give the other guy the close rounds..

I gave Tucker 4 rounds against Tyson...........Watching it again sometime later after the Tyson era..

Struggled to give him 2............

Garcia's dad isn't helping come across.....

You think? Pfft - You KNOW! :P

I know exactly what you're saying - Being objective when scoring when you're heart is on a fighter (and the fact that boxing is such a subjective sport) means your card will be a mess, I remember scoring Hopkins vs Dawson thinking Hopkins was winning the whole damn thing!

The thing is, I am a big Matthysse fan too, he reminded me a little of Valero and GGG mixed together - exciting, good work rate and great chin, he just wasn't the BOXER he needed to be. Garcia (as much as I dislike his Father) deserves credit in the way he fought - there were a couple of low blows yeah, but outside that I was scoring rounds for Garcia whilst urging Matthysse to get the Knockout (I was punching air in the 10th when Matthysse landed that bomb).

In retrospect, the fight and result reminds me of Khan vs Maidana - Khan won the fight hands down, had to get on his bike for 2 rounds and people call it a robbery and that Maidana deserves a rematch?!

by TopHat24/7 Mon 16 Sep 2013, 1:25 pm

sittingringside wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:
KingMonkey wrote:On the basis that it was a good fight and I'd like to see it get its own billing then yeah, go for a rematch. But in reality Matthyse doesn't deserve one and I doubt very much if Garcia would want it. Would you??!
of course not, he dodged the bullet once already!! sure he just wants the PBF pay day now....
I hope we aren't going to be hearing calls that Garcia is 'ducking' a Matthysse rematch

Ha, no, hope not. Fair play to Garcia, he's always struck as relatively fearless and confident for any challenge. Doubt a 'ducking' claim could ever seriously be labelled at him.

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 16 Sep 2013, 1:36 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:
sittingringside wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:
KingMonkey wrote:On the basis that it was a good fight and I'd like to see it get its own billing then yeah, go for a rematch. But in reality Matthyse doesn't deserve one and I doubt very much if Garcia would want it. Would you??!
of course not, he dodged the bullet once already!! sure he just wants the PBF pay day now....
I hope we aren't going to be hearing calls that Garcia is 'ducking' a Matthysse rematch
Ha, no, hope not. Fair play to Garcia, he's always struck as relatively fearless and confident for any challenge. Doubt a 'ducking' claim could ever seriously be labelled at him.

Somebody make his day and bite..

by hogey Mon 16 Sep 2013, 1:41 pm

I did not have it even very close and the scorecards were a little generous to Lucas, for me Garcia was outboxing him and winning clearly even before he bashed Matthysse eye up. I think he exposed Matthysse a bit as another Maidana great puncher but limited boxer who is bang in trouble when he meets boxers who can take his shots. I think Lucas needs to go away and get a few wins behind him before he gets another shot because it was simply not a close enough fight for an immediate rematch to be ordered and i could only see Garcia winning even easier in a rematch

by sittingringside Mon 16 Sep 2013, 1:43 pm

Herman Jaggery wrote:
sittingringside wrote:

Walcott was a better 'boxer' than Marciano, if we take that to be in the sense it is often used; as a measure of ability to apply the conventional principles of classic boxing style. However, I would argue strongly that Walcott was not a better boxer than Marciano if we take the term as meaning 'a participant in the sport of boxing'.

That's exactly what I said.

But why are you astounded? Is a footballer as effective when he breaks a metatarsal?

Take Abrahams. He had to retire in Steiglitz because of a freak eye injury. But would Steiglitz ever beat a two eyed Abraham? I really don't think so. We'll get the answer to that soon enough though, probably early next year in the decider. Not saying Matthysse's injury was as severe though, in terms of pain, just that it altered the flow of the fight at a crucial stage.

I'm not sure how you came up with the footballer analogy. As to the Abraham example, Stieglitz completely dominated him for the two rounds previous to the stoppage, if you allow your opponent to hit you in the face over and over, you are at risk of injury. Abraham started the fight with 2 eyes, Stieglitz beat him by smashing one of them.

by eddyfightfan Mon 16 Sep 2013, 1:44 pm

i think garcia vs bradley would be a great fight, with the winner probably the best claim to a fight with mayweather (if bradley gets passed JMM).

by Herman Jaeger Mon 16 Sep 2013, 1:49 pm

'Steiglitz completely dominated him for the two rounds previous to the stoppage'

ok.

Speak to you after the rematch.

by mobilemaster8 Mon 16 Sep 2013, 2:07 pm

Hopefully we can have a rematch between these two as its fully deserved. Garcia hit him with a lucky blind shot with his thumb rendering him pretty much blind when he was taking over the fight in a big way.

Danny will no doubt duck the rematch as he has previously in the past.

by TopHat24/7 Mon 16 Sep 2013, 2:12 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:
sittingringside wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:
KingMonkey wrote:On the basis that it was a good fight and I'd like to see it get its own billing then yeah, go for a rematch. But in reality Matthyse doesn't deserve one and I doubt very much if Garcia would want it. Would you??!
of course not, he dodged the bullet once already!! sure he just wants the PBF pay day now....
I hope we aren't going to be hearing calls that Garcia is 'ducking' a Matthysse rematch
Ha, no, hope not. Fair play to Garcia, he's always struck as relatively fearless and confident for any challenge. Doubt a 'ducking' claim could ever seriously be labelled at him.
Somebody make his day and bite..

tool

by YDKSAB Mon 16 Sep 2013, 2:16 pm

Some people on here DKSAB. Serious HATERS! Garcia BEAT Matthysse. Just coz you HATE Danny dont change THAT.

LOOK at the fight. ALOT of people saying Gacia would not last 3 ROUNDS and would NOT handle the POWER. Matthysse ALL about the PUNCHING and POWER. And Danny HANDLED it. Face it people he TOOK Matthysse power and fired back with HOOKS and JABS or his own.

Garcia WINNING the fight BEFORE the eye closed. Eye closed by Garcia QUALITY LEFT HOOK he landed CONSISTENTLY.

Big QUESTION in this fight was could Danny handle the POWER?? He COULD. Danny wins rematch easier because he is a SUPERIOR boxer and IMPROVING all the time.

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 16 Sep 2013, 2:17 pm

mobilemaster8 wrote:Hopefully we can have a rematch between these two as its fully deserved. Garcia hit him with a lucky blind shot with his thumb rendering him pretty much blind when he was taking over the fight in a big way.

Danny will no doubt duck the rematch as he has previously in the past.

Unless Mayweather calls...........Can see an immediate rematch..

by mobilemaster8 Mon 16 Sep 2013, 2:31 pm

Hope so Truss for the good of the sport

by sittingringside Mon 16 Sep 2013, 3:19 pm

It's pretty harsh to talk about Garcia ducking a fighter that he has just clearly beaten.

by sittingringside Mon 16 Sep 2013, 3:26 pm

I'm definitely not against a rematch though.

by mobilemaster8 Mon 16 Sep 2013, 3:42 pm

To be fair mate the scores were pretty close. Had that "knockdown" not been called, would have been closer.

Not only that, but had he had two eyes, he would have one im sure.

by Sponsored content