BOD or Conrad?

First topic message reminder :

Sure, now Brian is past his peak and Conrad is currently the best centre in the game, but how will we judge them 10 years from now? When we look back at their careers, who will be judged the better the better of the two?

It's a tough question. O'Driscoll has been considered the best whilst Conrad has been pretty darn good, but since the world cup victory Conrad has gone to another level and questions have to be asked whether he has surpassed BOD as the premier centre of the professional era.

So my fellow rugby tragics, is Conrad #1 or does that title remain with BOD?

Any reason for this personal attack? Or would you care to join the debate the thread is actually about?

What about the November test in 2010 GE and when did you change your mind about BOD being a legend of the game?

Thought we were indulging DailyM's thread. No?

Don't want to answer then?

GloriousEmpire wrote:Any reason for this personal attack? Or would you care to join the debate the thread is actually about?

I could ask you the same thing.  The thread was originally asking who will be remembered as the better player, but it seems to have become a thread for certain individuals to criticise everything about BOD, a lot of it having little to do with his rugby skills.

Unfortunately you seem to be determined to ruin whatever reasonable debate there could have been.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

Taylorman wrote:no asbo but you tell me, who, as a centre has inflicted more damage against the top sides on an individual basis?  And the hurricanes dont lose all their matches to any side. theyre always up there around mid table so dont get the comparison. playing in a weaker side is no more grounds for being a better centre than playing in a strong side.

Smith has obviously inflicted more damage,that is in no small part due to the fact that he plays for a team which gets him in positions where it's possible for him to inflict said damage.If he had played for Ireland there is no way he'd be as effective.

You don't get the comparison just because the Hurricanes don't lose all their matches to one side.Use your brain for a second the comparison doesn't have to be exact for it to be valid.The comparison is valid because Smith can't make an average team into world beaters no matter how good he is and neither can BoD so ignoring BoDs credentials simply because Ireland haven't beaten the All Blacks is just lazy thinking.

Also "up there around mid table" is an oxymoron.

I would disagree with that analysis Taylorman

If you take the Irish and NZ contingent out of it, I believe most would have bet their last fiver on BOD in his prime beef best, in his pomp if he had the ball he would destroy most collective (that's club or country) defences including any All Black 10-15, I would not put my last fiver on Conrad doing that.

I really don't think he is within a country mile of BOD when both were in their prime

No 7&1/2 wrote:Don't want to answer then?

I remember it well! The day that BOD scored a "try" from an obvious knock-on that was allowed in the parochial environment of Aviva stadium and more memorable for the amazing work Conrad Smith did in setting up four tries as New Zealand triumphed 38-18?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwnrQik6BQc

Taylorman wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

Taylorman wrote:no asbo but you tell me, who, as a centre has inflicted more damage against the top sides on an individual basis?  And the hurricanes dont lose all their matches to any side. theyre always up there around mid table so dont get the comparison. playing in a weaker side is no more grounds for being a better centre than playing in a strong side.

Smith has obviously inflicted more damage,that is in no small part due to the fact that he plays for a team which gets him in positions where it's possible for him to inflict said damage.If he had played for Ireland there is no way he'd be as effective.

You don't get the comparison just because the Hurricanes don't lose all their matches to one side.Use your brain for a second the comparison doesn't have to be exact for it to be valid.The comparison is valid because Smith can't make an average team into world beaters no matter how good he is and neither can BoD so ignoring BoDs credentials simply because Ireland haven't beaten the All Blacks is just lazy thinking.

Also "up there around mid table" is an oxymoron.

quit with the dumbo comments  then. I didnt say bod had to bring his side up to win, Im just saying its a little hard to respect a player from the opposition that never wins, no matter who it is, in terms of being worlds best. Since BOD has never had the distinction as a wcup winning centre or ranked no. 1 or been part of a world dominating side how do you compare the two and get to determine its actually bod when smith does it as part of BAU? day in day out.

Conrad Smith has been central to NZ's dismantling of every centre pairing in world rugby for several years now. Prior to every test it is his input into the strategy and subsequent on field management of both the midfield attack and defensive strategy is something that Smith has done on a very regular basis, and succeeded every time. BOD does not have experience in succeeding in doing that. Yes its not his fault that he hasnt but nor does it make him a better player. Smith has been involved in successful situations of the highest level that BOD hasnt been near, so yes, by the absence of BOD not featuring in that level of play, it does make Smith the better centre. Not BODs fault he gets to play with lesser players, but there you go.

And up there is not an oxymoron, it was relative to the position BOD found himself with 13 and 0.

GloriousEmpire wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Don't want to answer then?

I remember it well! The day that BOD scored a "try" from an obvious knock-on that was allowed in the parochial environment of Aviva stadium and more memorable for the amazing work Conrad Smith did in setting up four tries as New Zealand triumphed 38-18?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwnrQik6BQc

1 try to nil yes. Must mean he's better according to your flawed use of stats. Now when did you change your opinion of BOD from being a legend of the game? When you stopped being English?

flyhalffactory wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

Taylorman wrote:no asbo but you tell me, who, as a centre has inflicted more damage against the top sides on an individual basis?  And the hurricanes dont lose all their matches to any side. theyre always up there around mid table so dont get the comparison. playing in a weaker side is no more grounds for being a better centre than playing in a strong side.

Smith has obviously inflicted more damage,that is in no small part due to the fact that he plays for a team which gets him in positions where it's possible for him to inflict said damage.If he had played for Ireland there is no way he'd be as effective.

You don't get the comparison just because the Hurricanes don't lose all their matches to one side.Use your brain for a second the comparison doesn't have to be exact for it to be valid.The comparison is valid because Smith can't make an average team into world beaters no matter how good he is and neither can BoD so ignoring BoDs credentials simply because Ireland haven't beaten the All Blacks is just lazy thinking.

Also "up there around mid table" is an oxymoron.

I would disagree with that analysis Taylorman

If you take the Irish and NZ contingent out of it, I believe most would have bet their last fiver on BOD in his prime beef best, in his pomp if he had the ball he would destroy most collective (that's club or country) defences including any All Black 10-15, I would not put my last fiver on Conrad doing that.

I really don't think he is within a country mile of BOD when both were in their prime

No,

You wouldnt, so special he is up there. To us Conrads just one of many, and BOD wouldnt work here- such is his requirement to be an individual- not being able to rely on working with other centres- hmmm...where have we seen that before?
On the world stage theyre two different players. One battles to stay above water, and one keeps the boat afloat.

No 7&1/2 wrote:

GloriousEmpire wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Don't want to answer then?

I remember it well! The day that BOD scored a "try" from an obvious knock-on that was allowed in the parochial environment of Aviva stadium and more memorable for the amazing work Conrad Smith did in setting up four tries as New Zealand triumphed 38-18?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwnrQik6BQc

1 try to nil yes. Must mean he's better according to your flawed use of stats. Now when did you change your opinion of BOD from being a legend of the game? When you stopped being English?

Are we counting tries from obvious knock ons? Come to mention it, the first Irish try was off a forward pass as well.

Anyway, aside from the so-called try, I don't recall BOD doing much in the game in comparison with Conrad Smith's peerless team work. Some of the defense he put in that game was just immense.

yes. 1 try to nil. When did you change your opinion about BOD? When you left your Englishness behind? I'm bored watching cookery shows with the wife so I don't mind repeating myself as you dodge, duck, dip, dive and dodge.

No 7&1/2 wrote:yes. 1 try to nil. When did you change your opinion about BOD? When you left your Englishness behind? I'm bored watching cookery shows with the wife so I don't mind repeating myself as you dodge, duck, dip, dive and dodge.

 Please correct me if I'm wrong 7&1/2, but is that the game where O'Driscoll did that amazing pick up about ten metres short of the line to score a try?

Sorry mate, I've been distracted by the America's cup.

Deano and the boys just took race 11, so it's 8-1. One more win for Team NZ and the America's cup is New Zealand's cup all over again.  Asuming of course they don't tip the boat over again, cause we've only got the one.

I'm bored of this now. Yeah, yeah, whatever you like. O'Driscoll the greatest ever. Shame he was held back by the other 14 players in the Irish team.

aucklandlaurie wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:yes. 1 try to nil. When did you change your opinion about BOD? When you left your Englishness behind? I'm bored watching cookery shows with the wife so I don't mind repeating myself as you dodge, duck, dip, dive and dodge.

 Please correct me if I'm wrong 771/2, but is that the game where O'Driscoll did that amazing pick up about ten metres short of the line to score a try?

Don't care, I'm just using GEs logic that it was only tries that count in the 1st game in 2010 so the only try in the 2nd makes BOD better (apparently).

GloriousEmpire wrote:Sorry mate, I've been distracted by the America's cup.

Deano and the boys just took race 11, so it's 8-1. One more win for Team NZ and the America's cup is New Zealand's cup all over again.  Asuming of course they don't tip the boat over again, cause we've only got the one.

I'm bored of this now. Yeah, yeah, whatever you like. O'Driscoll the greatest ever. Shame he was held back by the other 14 players in the Irish team.

Just simply want to know why you changed your mind on him (and being English).

No 7&1/2 wrote:

aucklandlaurie wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:yes. 1 try to nil. When did you change your opinion about BOD? When you left your Englishness behind? I'm bored watching cookery shows with the wife so I don't mind repeating myself as you dodge, duck, dip, dive and dodge.

 Please correct me if I'm wrong 771/2, but is that the game where O'Driscoll did that amazing pick up about ten metres short of the line to score a try?

Don't care, I'm just using GEs logic that it was only tries that count in the 1st game in 2010 so the only try in the 2nd makes BOD better (apparently).

What? tries scored or tries stopped?

Yeah I was really mocking the prior simplistic attempts to use stats, but the other poster here hasn't spotted that, so whatever. Who cares. The longer the others fail to see Conrad Smith's genius, the longer he'll be ripping their defenses apart, scoring and setting up tries and winning world cups. So long may it live.

When did you stop being English GE?

I think it's important that we don't label ourselves in such antiquated ways. I'm a citizen of the world and hold many passports. I'm English, Scottish, Irish, Kiwi, American and Samoan by ancestry and have lived in many many different countries, so I wouldn't say I "stopped" being anything.

Good enough answer?

GloriousEmpire wrote:Sorry mate, I've been distracted by the America's cup.

Deano and the boys just took race 11, so it's 8-1. One more win for Team NZ and the America's cup is New Zealand's cup all over again.  Asuming of course they don't tip the boat over again, cause we've only got the one.

I'm bored of this now. Yeah, yeah, whatever you like. O'Driscoll the greatest ever. Shame he was held back by the other 14 players in the Irish team.

Oh thank God, I haven't been able to get a stream on it and the tension's been driving me crazy...

Incidentally, I was only half jesting about Manuka Honey. Combined with Lemsip it's about the only thing keeping me going, I'm not knocking it.

But i still think BOD's better than Smith, or was.

As good as your normal ones. Don't know many people who switch their support to different international teams but I suppose it's useful to troll.

Kind of a pointless argument anyway. Few kiwis are going to agree BOD is better than Smith and even if he is it would be by such a negligible amount. There is argument that BOD stands out in a crowd where Smith doesnt.

Seems to invoke divisive views though this BOD character...

Taylorman wrote:

flyhalffactory wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

Taylorman wrote:no asbo but you tell me, who, as a centre has inflicted more damage against the top sides on an individual basis?  And the hurricanes dont lose all their matches to any side. theyre always up there around mid table so dont get the comparison. playing in a weaker side is no more grounds for being a better centre than playing in a strong side.

Smith has obviously inflicted more damage,that is in no small part due to the fact that he plays for a team which gets him in positions where it's possible for him to inflict said damage.If he had played for Ireland there is no way he'd be as effective.

You don't get the comparison just because the Hurricanes don't lose all their matches to one side.Use your brain for a second the comparison doesn't have to be exact for it to be valid.The comparison is valid because Smith can't make an average team into world beaters no matter how good he is and neither can BoD so ignoring BoDs credentials simply because Ireland haven't beaten the All Blacks is just lazy thinking.

Also "up there around mid table" is an oxymoron.

I would disagree with that analysis Taylorman

If you take the Irish and NZ contingent out of it, I believe most would have bet their last fiver on BOD in his prime beef best, in his pomp if he had the ball he would destroy most collective (that's club or country) defences including any All Black 10-15, I would not put my last fiver on Conrad doing that.

I really don't think he is within a country mile of BOD when both were in their prime

No,

You wouldnt, so special he is up there. To us Conrads just one of many, and BOD wouldnt work here- such is his requirement to be an individual- not being able to rely on working with other centres- hmmm...where have we seen that before?
On the world stage theyre two different players. One battles to stay above water, and one keeps the boat afloat.

Hey Taylorman mate,
This is me having a friendly communication, lets have a sensible discussion and not get down to the antagonistic level. I am just attempting to rationalise your stance on the quality of centres in NZ club rugby  I haven't seen that many NZ players successfully standout when they come to play in Europe including DCs time (even though he was injured quite a bit). I agree BOD is more individual than Smith (but so is SBW and I think is a better centre and could be more influential than Smith), however as you quite rightly say NZ probably could put out three sides and all would be in the top five as a collective unit so players don't have to try to win games on their own. However to suggest BOD is not much of a team player is not so cut and dried as he has formed a long standing and effective partnership with D'Arcy and was as good defensively as an offensive player.

I would say BOD in his prime would have been a shoe-in any club or international 13 including the All Blacks.

Taylorman wrote:
Conrad Smith has been central to NZ's dismantling of every centre pairing in world rugby for several years now. Prior to every test it is his input into the strategy and subsequent on field management of both the midfield attack and defensive strategy is something that Smith has done on a very regular basis, and succeeded every time. BOD does not have experience in succeeding in doing that. Yes its not his fault that he hasnt but nor does it make him a better player. Smith has been involved in successful situations of the highest level that BOD hasnt been near, so yes, by the absence of BOD not featuring in that level of play, it does make Smith the better centre. Not BODs fault he gets to play with lesser players, but there you go.

And up there is not an oxymoron, it was relative to the position BOD found himself with 13 and 0.

To take that seriously thn the opposite applies and every time NZ have lost with Smith playing it's because he failed in his input into the strategy and subsequent on field management of both the midfield attack and defensive strategy.

Again I don't have a problem with you rating Smith above BoD,it's the dismissal of BoD that I can't understand.If i you truly feel a top class talent like BoD who has been at the top of he game for over a decade is hard to respect and a comparison with Smith is hard to take seriously then I really feel you watch the game on a very superficial level.

Hood83 wrote:

GloriousEmpire wrote:Sorry mate, I've been distracted by the America's cup.

Deano and the boys just took race 11, so it's 8-1. One more win for Team NZ and the America's cup is New Zealand's cup all over again.  Asuming of course they don't tip the boat over again, cause we've only got the one.

I'm bored of this now. Yeah, yeah, whatever you like. O'Driscoll the greatest ever. Shame he was held back by the other 14 players in the Irish team.

Oh thank God, I haven't been able to get a stream on it and the tension's been driving me crazy...

Incidentally, I was only half jesting about Manuka Honey. Combined with Lemsip it's about the only thing keeping me going, I'm not knocking it.

But i still think BOD's better than Smith, or was.

Hoody, youve got to mix some cinnamon with the Manuka Honey, mix up a shot glass of it, about a five second zap in the microwave, repeat every hour or two, before you know it you'll be right as rain.

Roast an onion in the oven until it goes mushy then eat it. Your cold will disappear in about an hour.

flyhalffactory wrote:

Taylorman wrote:

flyhalffactory wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

Taylorman wrote:no asbo but you tell me, who, as a centre has inflicted more damage against the top sides on an individual basis?  And the hurricanes dont lose all their matches to any side. theyre always up there around mid table so dont get the comparison. playing in a weaker side is no more grounds for being a better centre than playing in a strong side.

Smith has obviously inflicted more damage,that is in no small part due to the fact that he plays for a team which gets him in positions where it's possible for him to inflict said damage.If he had played for Ireland there is no way he'd be as effective.

You don't get the comparison just because the Hurricanes don't lose all their matches to one side.Use your brain for a second the comparison doesn't have to be exact for it to be valid.The comparison is valid because Smith can't make an average team into world beaters no matter how good he is and neither can BoD so ignoring BoDs credentials simply because Ireland haven't beaten the All Blacks is just lazy thinking.

Also "up there around mid table" is an oxymoron.

I would disagree with that analysis Taylorman

If you take the Irish and NZ contingent out of it, I believe most would have bet their last fiver on BOD in his prime beef best, in his pomp if he had the ball he would destroy most collective (that's club or country) defences including any All Black 10-15, I would not put my last fiver on Conrad doing that.

I really don't think he is within a country mile of BOD when both were in their prime

No,

You wouldnt, so special he is up there. To us Conrads just one of many, and BOD wouldnt work here- such is his requirement to be an individual- not being able to rely on working with other centres- hmmm...where have we seen that before?
On the world stage theyre two different players. One battles to stay above water, and one keeps the boat afloat.

Hey Taylorman mate,
This is me having a friendly communication, lets have a sensible discussion and not get down to the antagonistic level. I am just attempting to rationalise your stance on the quality of centres in NZ club rugby  I haven't seen that many NZ players successfully standout when they come to play in Europe including DCs time (even though he was injured quite a bit). I agree BOD is more individual than Smith (but so is SBW and I think is a better centre and could be more influential than Smith), however as you quite rightly say NZ probably could put out three sides and all would be in the top five as a collective unit so players don't have to try to win games on their own. However to suggest BOD is not much of a team player is not so cut and dried as he has formed a long standing and effective partnership with D'Arcy and was as good defensively as an offensive player.

I would say BOD in his prime would have been a shoe-in any club or international 13 including the All Blacks.

How is this stupid comment un antagonistic?

"he had the ball he would destroy most collective (that's club or country) defences including any All Black 10-15, I would not put my last fiver on Conrad doing that"

He has had the odd moment against us but generally he got smashed out off the park like the rest so please...

It's probably fair to say that the moments that BOD is "famous" for, occurred against lesser opposition. When NZ play the same lesser opponents so many players are scoring the same kind of tries that none of them really stand out.

Most of the comments here are getting down right stupid why not just say BOTH are Great players and cut out the rubbishing of both.Fly Half factory?you haven't seen many NZ players
that were particularly good in the NH?Riki Fluetey didn't make the AB`s but was good enough
before injury for First Choice for both England and the Lions.Andrew Merthens got 3 teams promoted from a lower division.Regan King got one cap for the AB`s and was rated at one time best centre in Europe.Chris Masoe recently as best Loose forward,Byron Kelleher Scrum half.Luke McAlister got raves week after week,Nick Evans is still one of the best 10`s in Europe.Carlos Spencer was voted his teams Player of the year.
Those are but a few examples some Nz players have returned home saying how much easier
NH rugby is compared to SH etc.
Swinging statements without thought just don`tcut it that isn`t a dig at you so please don`t take it as such.But your comment is very much at odds with what others have stated here
and the old BBC 606 site.

When our players go to the NH its for retirement fund or because they can't make the top side. Hayman is the only player I know that turned his back on a certain AB pos. to play in the NH. So no player has been AB no. 1 quality while playing in the NH- Evans left for that reason so using reject or ageing AB's is hardly forming a reasonable argument.

3 pages of nonsense and childish behaviour when the right answers were given at the first page by A few posters. You dont go out and compare white and red wine, they might play a similar role on a tabke but are often used differently and then I guess it's a matter of personal taste. Ditto for Mr Smith and Mr O'Driscol.
As for the cold, boil 2 apples with water for a good 30 minutes. Drink the water after with some honey (might try with the one from nz mentionned above if I find some)

I think the wine analogy is good. 

NZ produce better wine than Ireland too.

Can't believe ios7 takes 5 hours to download over fibre

In Japan, one old cure for a cold is to wrap some grilled leek in a thin cloth and wear it around your neck.

There may be some minor social consequences.

flyhalffactory wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

Taylorman wrote:no asbo but you tell me, who, as a centre has inflicted more damage against the top sides on an individual basis?  And the hurricanes dont lose all their matches to any side. theyre always up there around mid table so dont get the comparison. playing in a weaker side is no more grounds for being a better centre than playing in a strong side.

Smith has obviously inflicted more damage,that is in no small part due to the fact that he plays for a team which gets him in positions where it's possible for him to inflict said damage.If he had played for Ireland there is no way he'd be as effective.

You don't get the comparison just because the Hurricanes don't lose all their matches to one side.Use your brain for a second the comparison doesn't have to be exact for it to be valid.The comparison is valid because Smith can't make an average team into world beaters no matter how good he is and neither can BoD so ignoring BoDs credentials simply because Ireland haven't beaten the All Blacks is just lazy thinking.

Also "up there around mid table" is an oxymoron.

I would disagree with that analysis Taylorman

If you take the Irish and NZ contingent out of it, I believe most would have bet their last fiver on BOD in his prime beef best, in his pomp if he had the ball he would destroy most collective (that's club or country) defences including any All Black 10-15, I would not put my last fiver on Conrad doing that.

I really don't think he is within a country mile of BOD when both were in their prime

Speak for yourself. I don't share that conviction. BOD was a fantastic player but I think he is being over fondly remembered and Smith overly dismissed. And I agree with TM that it is impossible to say whether a player in a less good team looks worse or better than they actually are. My suspicion is that they look better but that is based on no facts at all

emack2 wrote:Most of the comments here are getting down right stupid why not just say BOTH are Great players and cut out the rubbishing of both.Fly Half factory?you haven't seen many NZ players
that were particularly good in the NH?Riki Fluetey didn't make the AB`s but was good enough
before injury for First Choice for both England and the Lions.Andrew Merthens got 3 teams promoted from a lower division.Regan King got one cap for the AB`s and was rated at one time best centre in Europe.Chris Masoe recently as best Loose forward,Byron Kelleher Scrum half.Luke McAlister got raves week after week,Nick Evans is still one of the best 10`s in Europe.Carlos Spencer was voted his teams Player of the year.
Those are but a few examples some Nz players have returned home saying how much easier
NH rugby is compared to SH etc.
Swinging statements without thought just don`tcut it that isn`t a dig at you so please don`t take it as such.But your comment is very much at odds with what others have stated here
and the old BBC 606 site.

Regan King was consistently by far the best product and a lot would have agreed he was probably your best distributor and passer of the ball and if not for injuries might have made it , and apart from Evans and Xavier Rush the rest never set the grass on fire consistently. For the few you have stated there have been many more who burned bright for a few games a season but over the period of time were nothing special..... prime example was Jerry Collins on fire for the Hurricanes but a season later was dire for Toulon, and after that good but not exactly scorching for The Ospreys, Tana Umaga another one on fire in NZ with a try in every two games at international but pants for Toulon. Ironically the players who didn't do that well on an international level in their home countries seemed to have done the best over here.

These are not sweeping statements, just opinions based on regularly watching games in the Pro12, AP and HC and I am not attempting to antagonise at all. Just stating that maybe it is better to play with 14 other players who are world class and many the best in their position. Can you imagine if BOD and Smith swapped shirts for three seasons........ just be honest and tell me if they both would be regarded in the same vein?. My opinion is that BOD playing with all that other talent would have become an even better player.

flyhalffactory wrote:

emack2 wrote:Most of the comments here are getting down right stupid why not just say BOTH are Great players and cut out the rubbishing of both.Fly Half factory?you haven't seen many NZ players
that were particularly good in the NH?Riki Fluetey didn't make the AB`s but was good enough
before injury for First Choice for both England and the Lions.Andrew Merthens got 3 teams promoted from a lower division.Regan King got one cap for the AB`s and was rated at one time best centre in Europe.Chris Masoe recently as best Loose forward,Byron Kelleher Scrum half.Luke McAlister got raves week after week,Nick Evans is still one of the best 10`s in Europe.Carlos Spencer was voted his teams Player of the year.
Those are but a few examples some Nz players have returned home saying how much easier
NH rugby is compared to SH etc.
Swinging statements without thought just don`tcut it that isn`t a dig at you so please don`t take it as such.But your comment is very much at odds with what others have stated here
and the old BBC 606 site.

Regan King was consistently by far the best product and a lot would have agreed he was probably your best distributor and passer of the ball and if not for injuries might have made it , and apart from Evans the rest never set the grass on fire consistently. For the few you have stated there have been many more who burned bright for a few games a season but over the period of time were nothing special..... prime example was Jerry Collins on fire for the Hurricanes but a season later was dire for Toulon, and after that good but not exactly scorching for The Ospreys, Tana Umaga another one on fire in NZ with a try in every two games at international but pants for Toulon.

These are not sweeping statements, just opinions based on regularly watching games in the Pro12, AP and HC and I am not attempting to antagonise at all. Just stating that maybe it is better to play with 14 other players who are world class and many the best in their position. Can you imagine if BOD and Smith swapped shirts for three seasons........ just be honest and tell me if they both would be regarded in the same vein?. My opinion is that BOD playing with all that other talent would have become an even better player.

To be perfectly honest with you I dont think Brian O'Driscoll would last five minutes in an All black squad, especially one under the authority of Hansen, and definitely not wearing a number 13 jersey.

I note you use the period "three seasons", coincidently its about three seasons ago when he should have moved from centre to a second five eighth role.

Fly half factory you are correct in some of what you say but Umaga and Collins as just two examples were at the end of there careers.Bruce Reihana another one cap wonder was immense for his club side in the NH.BOD wouldn't have lasted in an AB side unless he was
very consistent,such is the pressure to perform.He certainly is one of the best centres I`ve
seen ,but wouldn't pick him over Bleddyn Williams for example.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:I think the best people to ask the question regarding who is better, would be those who are impartial to both BOD and Conrad. Irish fans are obviously going to select BOD, but to be honest he is well known as a great rugby player by all non-bitter/sane fans. Unfortunately a few on here are now obsessively bitter towards him, and would never applaud his talents. Wouldn't you agree, Taylorman?

Also it would be a much better discussion without GloriousEmpire jumping in on every opportunity he gets to try and criticise BOD. Seriously, grow up mate. You are incredibly boring, have you nothing else to do but antagonise people?

my comments have never intentionally been aimed at BOD himself, more a seemingly never ending list of obsessessive and over protective fans who seem to believe he deserves preferential treatment and respect. The attacks on gatland, JD and so on at the expense of enjoying a LIons win. This one is comparing him to Smith when as far we're concerned BOD has played 13 tests against us and never contributed to a winning one. How is one possibly supposed to then agree that he is a better player let alone as good as. Ive seen BOD play enough, and Ive seen Smith play, and Ive simply seen far better and more consistent performances from Smith, regardless of who he plays for. I think he controls the midfield space better than anyone, he makes better use of the players around him than BOD does and has better instinct for the position, and, as I mentioned earlier, has been instrumental in masterminding and winning the midfield battles against just about every side hes played against.

BOD fans can disagree, and thats fine.

This is loco...

Surely people can acknowledge that rugby is a team sport and not an individual effort. Fine if you want to compare Nadal to Federer but can people stop being brainless and saying...

Welll player x has a better win record then player y and therefore he is better.

News flash... rugby is a team sport... if you play in a better team, regardless of being good or not you have a decent chance of having a good record. Conrad Smith just happens to play in one of the best teams in the world.
BOD just happens to play in a average tier 1 side that has never reached the SF of a RWC.. with and without BOD.

Hugo Porta is one of the best flyhalves of all time.... arguably the best of the 80s. His Argentine team got beat most of the time but people still regard him well over players who regularly got wins over him and his side. He achieved wins over SA, AUS, FRA and drew with NZ and ENG.... that's results against the very best... he dragged his side to victories (albeit like BOD and Ireland he also had a semi-decent players to work with... but no superstars).

George Weah played for nothing Liberia in the 90s... he won the world player of the year and the Ballon D'or.... yet by some logic written on here, Stephane Guivarch is a superior player.... who some may say??? Well he was the starting striker for France in 1998 and won the world cup during Weah's era.

If anyone argued the above it would make them sound rather foolish... by saying Smith is better purely because he has a better record then BOD is the same thing.

Taylorman wrote:...as far we're concerned BOD has played 13 tests against us and never contributed to a winning one. How is one possibly supposed to then agree that he is a better player let alone as good as [Smith]...

You said this before, and it sounded odd then too. I gave you the example of world class sportsmen who have turned out for average or poor international sides and others have added to the list. No-one has a problem recognizing their quality. All you have to do is watch them play.

There's no reason why you can't still go on to conclude Smith is the better player. However, the idea that BOD can't possibly be better than Smith, or even as good as him, simply because Ireland didn't beat New Zealand is bizarre.

couldnt agree more FA0019  
 
Guivarch was probably the worst striker to ever win a world cup !

Faa the problem is that any article about BOD referencing any Kiwi will always bring out the troll in some Kiwis like a pig to sh1t. Its a really odd phenomenon. Quite funny actually.

I actually started off trying to have a reasonable rational debate and even showed GE how every statement he made was factually ridiculous and even borderline ignorant but like they say there is no point wrestling with a pig because you will both get dirty but the pig will enjoy it.

yes fa the irony is that BOD has been more successful as an individual than as a team man. Smith is more of a team man than bod has ever been. His dropping from he Lions was not because he couldnt do his own job, but because he couldnt gel as a centre combination. The ultomate irony being he got dropped BECAUSE he wasnt a team man and IN SPITE of his individual talent and skills as a player. That can be argued till the cows come home but that is the way it went. Anyone with their eyes wide open could see that.

Taylorman wrote:yes fa the irony is that BOD has been more successful as an individual than as a team man.

What on earth does that mean?

Taylorman wrote:yes fa the irony is that BOD has been more successful as an individual than as a team man. Smith is more of a team man than bod has ever been. His dropping from he Lions was not because he couldnt do his own job, but because he couldnt gel as a centre combination. The ultomate irony being he got dropped BECAUSE he wasnt a team man and IN SPITE of his individual talent and skills as a player. That can be argued till the cows come home but that is the way it went. Anyone with their eyes wide open could see that.

Have you ever considered stand up Taylorman?

"Not a team man"

This just keeps getting better.

So he was picked for 4 Lions tours because he wasn't a team man? I suppose playing 2 13s together is an ideal combo and he didn't have a rather useful partnership with Roberts 4 years ago? Fine you think Smith is better but those arguments are weak.

No 7&1/2 wrote:So he was picked for 4 Lions tours because he wasn't a team man? I suppose playing 2 13s together is an ideal combo and he didn't have a rather useful partnership with Roberts 4 years ago? Fine you think Smith is better but those arguments are weak.

No theres no way the fact that they were both 13s could have anything to do with it. Not on this thread anyway because this is a fantasy thread where facts are just inconvenient barriers for trolls to thrive on nonsense.

I'm not sure there has ever been an Irish player that has given more for his club and country. Completely selfless guy. To describe O'Driscoll as not a team man is up there with the funniest most stupid comment I have read online.