'Bite the hands off Aviva Premiership clubs if they offer Anglo Welsh league,' Michael Owen

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'Bite the hands off Aviva Premiership clubs if they offer Anglo Welsh league,' Michael Owen

Wales' 2005 Grand Slam winning captain Michael Owen has urged the Welsh regions to accept the offer of an Anglo Welsh league if it comes their way


Former Wales captain Michael Owen has urged the regions to bite the hands off the English clubs if they are offered a place in a new Anglo-Welsh league.

Nigel Wray – the chairman of Saracens, who Owen used to play for – wants to see the four Welsh regions join the English Premiership.

Wray says he believes that would create a “fantastic tournament” and that he would be “greatly surprised” if the Welsh didn’t jump at the chance.

Owen agrees it would be a superb competition and too good an opportunity for the regions to turn down.

“Joining the English league would be an unbelievable proposition for the Welsh teams,” said the former Grand Slam skipper. “It’s such a strong competition. The league is so well marketed and so well run.

“England have got such a depth of talent in terms of player numbers, which means there are a lot of strong teams.

“The Premiership has evolved and got stronger and stronger over a number of years. If the Welsh regions are offered a place in it by the English, they would have to bite their hand off.

“You would get more people in Wales watching rugby again. People could go to the games in England.

“To go up to Edinburgh or Glasgow or over to Munster and Leinster is really difficult.

“Realistically, people are not going to go over there, so you are only going to be watching rugby every other week.

“Years ago, a Newport or a Pontypridd fan would have gone to watch rugby every week, home and away.

“That has been lost a little bit with the regions because you obviously can’t follow your team as much. To be in the English league would be absolutely amazing for Wales, in terms of playing standard, commercially, absolutely everything.”


However, in order to leave the Pro12, any of the participating Unions would have to serve three years notice because of existing contractual commitments, which would present significant problems in terms of getting into bed with the English.

Acknowledging the potential obstacles, Owen said: “Obviously there are contracts in place that could make it difficult to get out of the Pro12.

“But if the offer did come along, the regions would have to take it if they were able to. You can’t ignore that, can you?

“It’s a great competition and it makes more sense logistically.

“Maybe there does need to be a quick fix, because Welsh regional rugby is struggling financially from everything we are told and finding it hard to compete salary-wise.

“I am sure the regions would jump at it.

“It would just be an amazing competition to be part of. It would work really well. In principle you have to say it would be a good thing.”

The comments from Wray serve as the latest twist in the ongoing debate over the future shape of European rugby.

With the Heineken Cup set to end after this season amid plans by the English and French clubs to set up their own breakaway event, there have been grave fears over the future of the Welsh regions.

They currently receive £4.11m a year from European Cup rugby and the loss of that revenue could be crippling. It could even bring into question the ability to sustain four professional sides.

“This is an unbelievable, tumultuous time,” said Owen. “It’s a critical moment for professional rugby in Wales.”

Giving an insight into Wray, former Saracens No.8 Owen said: “Nigel is a very genuine fellow and he would only say things if he really believed them.

“He wants Saracens to play in the best possible, most vibrant competition.”

Speaking over the weekend, Wray said: “I’ve thought for a long time, and this is a personal opinion, that we should have the four Welsh teams in the Aviva Premiership.

“That would make it a fantastic tournament. The customer is king and he wants to see big games.

“I can’t speak for the Welsh, but I’d be greatly surprised if they wouldn’t jump at the chance of playing the English clubs more often.”

Wray has also urged the Ospreys, Scarlets, Blues and Dragons to join the English and French clubs in breaking away from Heineken Cup organisers ERC and forming a new European tournament.

“My message to the Welsh teams is simple: ‘Join the competition.’ “At the end of the day, you have to have guts,” he added. “They would be a hell of a lot better off than they are now.”

Saracens chairman gives his opinion on an anglo-welsh league.

An ex Saracens player agrees with chairman.

It's a story that has been blown out of proportion.

IF (and its a huge gigantic massive IF) it happend would the WRU have the same control over the players playing for the region now I wonder and would they have anymore control than they currently have over players with English clubs.

I think the RP12 unions and committee should invite the lower ranked Premiership and T14 clubs to join them in a two tier euro super league while the wealthy clubs do their BT thing and play silly buggers.

bedfordwelsh wrote:IF (and its a huge gigantic massive IF) it happend would the WRU have the same control over the players playing for the region now I wonder and would they have anymore control than they currently have over players with English clubs.

I imagine (and if I was involved this is how I would play it) that the membership would rely everything being handled by the PRL. So they would set up something similar to the EPS and current Region/WRU deals. Currently the RFU give the clubs about £12.75M a year 'extra' for player release (this covers more than the EPS but keep it simple). The WRU give the Regions £6M a year 'extra' for players release (this covers more than the International release but keep it simple).

The RFU money is given to the club the players comes from but is smoothed (not completely) by TV payments. I think some deal would be struck but it couldn't be just a blanket one as there would be no reason for Welsh players to play in Wales or English players to play in England. So it could be the WRU have to name an expanded EPS of 32 and up to 2 or 3 (for example) can be playing in England (or none). Same for the English EPS. Something like that anyway.

And the TV rights and sponsorship rights would have to go to the PRL as well. So the regions would no longer get the £9M a year (but would get direct TV payments).

Overall I can't see the WRU giving away so much power, although if they timed the handing over the TV rights with sanctioning the competition they could easily threaten to remove it if the PRL didn't play ball.

Just to make it clear the PRL would consist of around 17 members (13 English club representatives and 4 Welsh regional representatives).

Bit early to be talking about this- with the current impasse who knows what form European rugby will be in in 2017/2018? Regions are committed to the Pro12 until then.

maestegmafia wrote:I think the RP12 unions and committee should invite the lower ranked Premiership and T14 clubs to join them in a two tier euro super league while the wealthy clubs do their BT thing and play silly buggers.

Still, after all this time, you don't have a clue what you are talking about, do you?

The PRL IS controlled by the lower ranked teams. Why don't you get that? The 3 or 4 teams always at the top (Leicester, Saracens, Quins and Saints for now) are out voted by everyone else. Half the league are in the Amlin and about 66%-75% are likely to be in it. That is why they care about the structure, improving the 2nd tier, etc. Something that most of the members of the ERC don't care about because they're involved other than the odd team.

Why would they leave a competition that as a whole is relative strong (in terms of the resources they attract) and they have the controlling vote, for a competition where they are a minor party and isn't any stronger (in terms of the resources). Of course we don't know exactly how much money is given for the PRO12 do we? I've never seen it stated anywhere. Maybe it's massive.

VinceWLB wrote:

profitius wrote:

Its only in the news now to try and divide the Pro 12 teams. Pure and simple. PRL is an organisation that is looking after all the English teams. There would be war if Welsh teams joined the AP.

This.

Rabo unions must stay unified, 4>2.

That's just it. When the 2 often provide more than half the teams in the premier competition but feel they dont have a say in how its run it becomes kind of understandable why they get upset with the status quo

lostinwales wrote:

VinceWLB wrote:

profitius wrote:

Its only in the news now to try and divide the Pro 12 teams. Pure and simple. PRL is an organisation that is looking after all the English teams. There would be war if Welsh teams joined the AP.

This.

Rabo unions must stay unified, 4>2.

That's just it. When the 2 often provide more than half the teams in the premier competition but feel they dont have a say in how its run it becomes kind of understandable why they get upset with the status quo

They're getting half the teams and half the money which suggests to me they do have a say.

profitius wrote:

lostinwales wrote:

VinceWLB wrote:

profitius wrote:

Its only in the news now to try and divide the Pro 12 teams. Pure and simple. PRL is an organisation that is looking after all the English teams. There would be war if Welsh teams joined the AP.

This.

Rabo unions must stay unified, 4>2.

That's just it. When the 2 often provide more than half the teams in the premier competition but feel they dont have a say in how its run it becomes kind of understandable why they get upset with the status quo

They're getting half the teams and half the money which suggests to me they do have a say.

Funnily enough what you or I think matters a whole lot less than what they think. There is a hell of a lot of one-upmanship and putting down a club's position because 'my team is better/more profitable than your team' on these forums at the moment which isnt at all related to what is going on. Its all 'there should not be a problem' rather than seeing that there is a problem as perceived by a major grouping and trying to understand what that is.

And here's me thinking Michael Owen is involved in the VAlley's regional rugby campaign, why is he not voicing the opinion of the thousand 'disenfranchised' valleys rugby fans... 

Ah, those mythical beings, rarer than Unicorns and a decent Itallian ref