McMahon v Levesque

I'm still getting through Monday's Raw, I've read the spoilers but I still like watching the action now onto the question....

Is Triple H or Mr. McMahon the ultimate heel boss.....

I always thought Vince was too over the top, shouting orders getting to worked up, Trips plays this part perfectly he is that boss everyone has had, where they make out they are your mate but really they want to shaft you as hard as they can...

However Steph is playing emotional games with Big Show and gained loads of heat with the Dusty thing

Thoughts

I think they will bring Vince back soon as a face and say HHH is wrecking WWE etc and Steph will be caught in the middle. Then the HHH vs Vince feud will finish at Wrestle Mania, with HHH taking over WWE. Unless this whole power struggle angle has simply finished and its all done and dusted.

yup agreed sadly I think most or if not everyone on this forum will have had a boss who is like triple h and screws you over with work hours and pay in the name of what's "best for business".

Vince wasn't always so way over the top, im unsure when he morphed into that as I stopped watching from 2000-2007 but I thought he was far superiorr from late 97-99 when he was just establishing himself as the emperor.

The Vince McMahon of today is like a parody of the guy he once wad
s, Vince was perfect at his peak but I'd take Triple H in that role over Vince every day now

Vince has also given up on maintaining any sort of consistent character for at least the last two years now. It's as if he feels he is big enough to act in whichever way he wants and it won't do any damage.

Worryingly, Triple H's interactions with Heyman may represent an early indication that he could be heading down that route much quicker than his father in-law.

Present day I'd choose HHH in this role.

Vince in his prime though would get the nod over HHH evry day of the week!

Based on this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGLRhkkcZIY

HHH wins.

Vince is always the best, why? Because he was the legitimate boss and was never a wrestler. So when he got his ass handed to him by austin, the fans would erupt because they knew austin would always win in a fight (which lead to brisco/patterson as the stooges and then vince creating the corporation to help him).

HHH would just pedigree someone and they're knocked out.

Vince stopped being anywhere near as effective when he moved the character away from traditional wrestling heel and made it about proving his power and dominance over the wrestling industry.

There's a huge difference between the crooked weasel promoter who feuded with Austin, and the swaggering genetic jackhammer. There's also a huge difference between the number of people who paid to see the two characters.

What started out as an attempt to tell a story and make money became more a matter of one man's public and pathetic battle against his own insecurities and mortality.

So basically Triple H is a carbon copy of all the rubbish bits about Mr McMahon, with none of the good bits.

Go Hunter.

You were doing so well until the last bit Crips, your utter derision of Helmsley craps all over any chance of an unbiased opinion on anything he does.

Do you disagree with any of my points then?

If he ever did anything decent I'd happily praise him for it. I was full of praise for him when he did lots of good stuff 13 years ago.

You just will not buy into this story will you?

Blimey, I wasn't expecting to have to explain why I don't like things that are crap.

I sort of expect people to not like crap things. Like Miranda. Or Bognor Regis. Or racism. Or Dixie Carter's current storyline.

Do you need me to also explain my rationale for disliking the politics of Adolf Hitler?

If I wanted you to lie I'd have asked you to say Daniel Bryan isnt being pushed

Preliminary estimates suggest the Summerslam buyrate is down 17% on last year.

If WWE had spun Daniel Bryan's enormous popularity in a positive way,there's no way that would have happened.

I think the definition of 'pushing' someone is that you accentuate their positives, hide their weaknesses, and portray them as an even bigger star than they really are.

Do you honestly feel WWE is doing that with Bryan?

Crips just because you think things are crap doesn't mean everyone else has the same view but I think you're being a tad disingenuous if you think anything hes donr in the last 13 years is crap, its either disingenuous or indeed you are blinded by your dislike for him.

crippledtart wrote:Preliminary estimates suggest the Summerslam buyrate is down 17% on last year.

If WWE had spun Daniel Bryan's enormous popularity in a positive way,there's no way that would have happened.

I think the definition of 'pushing' someone is that you accentuate their positives, hide their weaknesses, and portray them as an even bigger star than they really are.

Do you honestly feel WWE is doing that with Bryan?

I think they are accentuating his positives, they're doing it in a completely opposite way from how they did it 25 years ago or even 10 years ago, what they're doing is trying to highlight what they percieve to be his misgivings and giving the fans a chance to vocally disagree with them, theres no getting away from Bryans so called weaknesses, it stands put like a sore thumb in the land of the giants, what they're doing is allowing the fans to convince themselves he is a big star, for that very reason it stands to reason he is being pushed, surely Bryan being pushed isnt in doubt

I'm calling Crips on Godwins Law btw.

Hero wrote:I'm calling Crips on Godwins Law btw.

 I second that call...

Everyone on here complains when we get a rehash story, we complain when folks are getting pushed, we complain when folks are not getting pushed, someone is too over, someone is underused.....

This Daniel Bryan push is great, he's so over, i think what they are trying to get over is that DB is the guy who will win the title no matter what only to have the trips admin to strip it from him. It works perfectly, the underdog who wins the title time and time again only to have him stripped AGAIN for some dodgy decision..... I didnt expect DB to win at NOC but now he has I fully expect him to win the rematch ... only to be stripped again and trips to beat down orton and pick a new face of the company cuz he got the wrong guy.....

That's me, I complain about everything. I complained about how great the Punk-Lesnar match was, I complain about how amazing Paul Heyman has been since his WWE return, I complain about how talented Daniel Bryan is. God I'm miserable.

I think the problem is that wrestling fans have been hearing the industry's powerbrokers spouting the same warped logic for so long that they've started to believe it.

I think you're turning into Morrisey.

This conversation is getting Nowhere Fast.

The DB push is working because I see it first hand.
My two sons favourite wrestler?
Not Cena, not Punk, but Daniel Bryan, they chant Yes! yes! Yes!, they do the arms crossed no! No! NO! gesture at the tv, they genuinely got sucked in watching RAW when the belt was stripped and they boo a HHH, Orton and the Shield every time they see them.
They are immersed in the story, they believe in the story and they have a hero in the story that they want to see triumph over adversity.

On a week to week basis at the moment the story of the underdog hero against the overwhelming odds of tyrannical villainy has captured my children's imagination and for me that's when wrestling is at its best. No peeking behind the curtains to moan about pushes, politics and shoots, just watching kids enjoy it like I used to enjoy and believe in it.

Surely your final point is contradicted by Triple H telling Edge he never drew a dime and saying Bryan is bad for business, and Dusty Rhodes using his real name on Monday night?!

Your kids prove (to a degree) that Bryan is over. They don't prove that he's being pushed.

Do you know 8 out of the past 9 weeks has seen Daniel Bryan appear in both the opening and closing segments of Raw as well as main event the past two PPVs where he's had clean pins over Cena and Orton?

If that was Cena the internet would be raging about how he was Superman rammed down our throats.

This is painful.

He's extremely popular. They are taking advantage of that popularity by featuring him heavily. But the show isn't about him. They are using him to get other people over and make the story about other people. And at the same time they are doing their utmost to subtly undercut and undermine him, so that in a few months' time they can move him out of the main event again.

Daniel Bryan is not the star of this story. He will not be the hero who slays the beast at the end of the story. That will be John Cena, or Vince McMahon, or someone else. The fans want it to be Daniel Bryan, but it won't be him.

If WWE really believed in Daniel Bryan and wanted to make him the star of the show, there's no way that the Summerslam buyrate would be down. There's no way that TV ratings wouldn't be rising. The fans are desperate to embrace him as WWE's top star. WWE knows that. It's the reason they feature him in the opening and closing segments of Raw. But ultimately, he'll end up as a wrestler who is higher on the card than where he started, but not as high as he could be.

If I turn out to be wrong, I'll happily admit it. If all the heat that has been shovelled on Triple H is counterbalanced by the satisfaction the fans feel when Bryan wins the feud and proves Triple H wrong and WWE says this is our guy and he's a star and he's the alpha male of the promotion, I'll happily admit it.

And if Dixie Carter's heel turn ends up being a great move, and business shoots through the roof for TNA as a result, and Bound For Glory does a big buyrate and the company starts to turn a profit, I'll also happily admit to being wrong.

Crips you've hedged your bets so much there you'll never be wrong!!!

You concede they're capitalising on his popularity but still say he isn't being pushed, have they changed the rules on a push that I haven't been informed of?

Daniel Bryan is most certainly being pushed, not everyone who is pushed though will reach the top of the ladder, that position is Cena's for as long as he wants it, it was the same for Hogan and the same for Austin, despite huge competition from Warrior and Rock respectively.

The logic behind any push is to make the wrestler a more valuable asset both on screen and off screen, I'd say they are well on their way to doing that, his crowd reactions are unparalleled and have been for most of this year.

He beat John Cena clean, middle of the ring clean, no interference, nothing, just a clean win, I cant emphasis enough how important that win is, it's never going to be something mentioned on air but the psychology behind anyone beating the golden boy without any possibility of an excuse should never be ignored, the fact that person was Daniel Bryan speaks volumes.

Daniel Bryan is the star of this show, he may not be the last man standing when the time comes to win the war but right now he is the focal point of the story and when the time comes for it to come to its conclusion you can be almost certain that Daniel Bryan will be considered to be a genuine and viable option as a main event talent, you can ask yourself was he before the start of this story, if the answer is no then its job done.

Lets not blow smoke though, he isn't going to replace Cena, no-one will until the time comes Cena cant work the same schedule, but lets not pretend this 'push' will only be a success if he reaches that level, thats disingenuous

How about we all just let it play out, wait until Bryan is shifted out of the storyline so that someone they consider a 'real' star can come back and save the day, and then you can all fall over yourselves talking about how WWE did everything right.

Here are some excuses you can use: the business is cyclical, TV ratings don't mean anything because people watch online these days, it takes years to develop new stars, it's the internet's fault, if only they weren't PG things would be different.

 

No worries, while you're at it lets just shut down the forum because theres no point discussing anything until something plays out

If a mid card wrestler goes through a period of several months of main event exposure and as a result is then thought of as a main event star is he not receiving a push?
I need to re read the definition of a push I think.

Im enjoying this storyline too much to be worried about if Bryan is being pushed or not but lets face it: he beat Cena clean. WWE let Daniel Bryan defeat John Cena for the WWE title at the second biggest PPV of the year and it was clean...

100% clean...