Edinburgh Rugby v Scarlets, 27 September

Edinburgh Rugby v Scarlets
 
Friday 27 September 2013, KO 19:45
Murrayfield Mausoleum, Edinburgh
 
Referee: David Wilkinson (IRFU, 22nd competition game)
Assistant Referees: Peter Allan, Adrian Graves (both SRU)
Citing Commissioner: John Kirk (SRU)
 
[Not televised?]
 
A. Teams:
 
Edinburgh
15 Greig Tonks
14 Lee Jones
13 Nick De Luca
12 Ben Atiga
11 Jack Cuthbert
10 Harry Leonard
9 Sam Hidalgo-Clyne
 
1 Alasdair Dickinson
2 Ross Ford CAPTAIN
3 Willem Nel
4 Grant Gilchrist
5 Izak van der Westhuizen
6 Dimitri Basilaia
7 Roddy Grant
8 David Denton
 
Replacements:
16 James Hilterbrand
17 Wicus Blaauw
18 Geoff Cross
19 Sean Cox
20 Hamish Watson
21 Sean Kennedy
22 Joaquin Dominguez
23 Michael Tait
 
Scarlets  
15 Liam Williams
14 Nick Reynolds
13 Jonathan Davies
12 Scott Williams
11 Jordan Williams
10 Rhys Priestland
9 Rhodri Williams
 
1 Phil John
2 Emyr Phillips
3 Samson Lee
4 Jake Ball
5 Joe Snyman
6 Josh Turnbull
7 John Barclay
8 Rob McCusker (capt).

Replacements:
16 Ken Owens
17 Rob Evans
18 Jacobie Adriaanse
19 George Earle
20 Sione Timani
21 Aled Davies
22 Aled Thomas
23 Gareth Maule.
 
B. Form - head to head:
 
22 Played 22
12 Wins 10
10 Losses 12
0 Draws 0
44 Tries 57
33 Conversions 35
53 Penalties 33
4 Drop Goals 1
457 Points 457
26 Avg. Age 25
 
C. Form - recent:
 
1 March 2013
Scarlets 14 - 13 Edinburgh Rugby
 
26 October 2012
Edinburgh Rugby 28 - 29 Scarlets
 
30 March 2012
Edinburgh Rugby 26 - 23 Scarlets
 
Incredible to note that the last three matches have all ended with a margin of 3 points or less.

Pretty closely matched records, and both sides having a rough start to the season. I'm not preparing for a classic on Friday, but hopefully we can scrape over the line for 4 points. We'll need the defence to step up (not difficult to improve in that department), and Leonard to nail his kicks.

Win this one and for all the awfulness of the Munster (1st half) and Ospreys performances, we'll probably be par on points.

Scarlets will be missing both Shinglers due to injury, and also Gareth Owen too. So going on who is available etc I would expect us to feild a side along the lines of

Li Williams
J Williams
S Williams
J Davies
G Maule (N Reynolds, if Maule is unfit)
Priestland
G Davies

John
Owens
Lee
Ball
Kelly
Turnbull
Barclay
McCusker
(E Phillips, R Evans, R Jones, J Snyman, S Timani, R Williams, A Thomas, N Reynolds/K Evans)

Useful openside you have there.....

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Scarlets will be missing both Shinglers due to injury, and also Gareth Owen too.  So going on who is available etc I would expect us to feild a side along the lines of

Li Williams
J Williams
S Williams
J Davies
G Maule (N Reynolds, if Maule is unfit)
Priestland
G Davies

John
Owens
Lee
Ball
Kelly
Turnbull
Barclay
McCusker
(E Phillips, R Evans, R Jones, J Snyman, S Timani, R Williams, A Thomas, N Reynolds/K Evans)

Spidey - what are your views on how the season has been going for you so far?

fEs -: I hope he comes good, he didn't seem to be make any difference last week, and was not any better than Josh Turnbull (that said Turnbull is not that bad IMO). Definately not the fix we needed at the breakdown.

George -: I think this season we have really shown up well in the pack. I have said for a few seasons that our biggest weakness was not our pack, but the reputation our pack has. And we have got off to a good start up front, with Scrum V regularly raving about our destructive scummaging. I think that Rob McCusker needs to spend a few more sessions trainning at keeping the ball under control when the scrum starts moving forward rapidly though, as if he could have we may have salvaged a draw with the Dragons.

Our wings and fullbacks have been pretty ropey this season so far. Gareth Owen has not seemed too good in the tackle area, and Liam and Jordan Williams seem less comfortable on the wings than at fullback. Both the Williams lads (not related) are cracking open field runner, however on the wing they seem too confined.

All in all we seem like we are not far off where we were last season, but just been to put in a full 80 mins work, as it has been a few lax moments (15-20 mins) that have seen us lose to Leinster and Dragons.

Give him time Spidey, that was only his first game of the season. Trust me, you be pretty pleased with John Barclay when he hits form.

On a totally unrelated note, had quite a bizarre week spotting former Scotland internationals. Gave a presentation to a Board the other day and found myself fielding questions from none other than Andy Irvine. Would have killed to be able to return a few questions myself!

....and today, more bizarrely, a bloke called Jamie Mayer came to my desk asking for my thoughts on a particular contract! Looks more like a prop forward now.....(I mean that in a nice(ish) way Radge.....).

funnyExiledScot wrote:Give him time Spidey, that was only his first game of the season. Trust me, you be pretty pleased with John Barclay when he hits form.

On a totally unrelated note, had quite a bizarre week spotting former Scotland internationals. Gave a presentation to a Board the other day and found myself fielding questions from none other than Andy Irvine. Would have killed to be able to return a few questions myself!

....and today, more bizarrely, a bloke called Jamie Mayer came to my desk asking for my thoughts on a particular contract! Looks more like a prop forward now.....(I mean that in a nice(ish) way Radge.....).

Hope you gave him a few Lions home truths  

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:Give him time Spidey, that was only his first game of the season. Trust me, you be pretty pleased with John Barclay when he hits form.

On a totally unrelated note, had quite a bizarre week spotting former Scotland internationals. Gave a presentation to a Board the other day and found myself fielding questions from none other than Andy Irvine. Would have killed to be able to return a few questions myself!

....and today, more bizarrely, a bloke called Jamie Mayer came to my desk asking for my thoughts on a particular contract! Looks more like a prop forward now.....(I mean that in a nice(ish) way Radge.....).

Hope you gave him a few Lions home truths  

He said Tuilagi sticking two fingers behind David Cameron was actually his idea.....and that Gatland was right to drop BOD....

 

This is a game that Edinburgh surely should be targetting to win?

Mind you, should be targetting all games to win really!

But the history shows these teams share a 50/50 with each other and with home advantage, surely this should be Edinburgh's game!

I'd take a win at all costs with this game - a good performance would be nice, but we need to win.

tigertattie wrote:This is a game that Edinburgh surely should be targetting to win?

Mind you, should be targetting all games to win really!

But the history shows these teams share a 50/50 with each other and with home advantage, surely this should be Edinburgh's game!

I think this is one of those games that Edinburgh should be favourites for. If only on the grounds that they beat the Dragons in Edinburgh, and the Dragons beat the Scarlets in Newport. SO realistically Edinburgh should win.

That said, I think the Scarlets backline, minus the injured Gareth Owen, will have a more ballenced shape so I would personally back the Scarlets for a win.

Scarlets team

Li Williams
Reynolds
J Davies
S Williams
J Williams
Priestland
R Williams

John
Phillips
Lee
Ball
Snyman
Turnbull
Barclay
McCusker

(Owens, R Evans, Adriaanse, Earle, Timani, A Davies, A Thomas, Maule)

I wasn't too far off with my guess, but it looks like we are holding some better players on the bench for some reason.

If Embra don't improve from last week they should get a kicking

Your half backs and midfield are considerably better than ours will be, and that's a pretty useful loose forward trio as well (plenty mobility at least).

Agree with RDW, I'd take a 6-3 victory with the winning drop goal in the 80th minute bouncing off both posts frankly.

Just realised what my post sounded like - a threat to improve performance  

munkian wrote:Just realised what my post sounded like - a threat to improve performance  

Wasn't that Skrella's attitude to coaching?

Edinburgh team announced - no major surprises, and I'm on my phone so can't be hooped with the hassle of trying to post it!

RDW_Scotland wrote:Edinburgh team announced - no major surprises, and I'm on my phone so can't be hooped with the hassle of trying to post it!

Here you go Amish Boy:

15 Greig Tonks

14 Lee Jones
13 Nick De Luca
12 Ben Atiga
11 Jack Cuthbert

10 Harry Leonard
9 Sam Hidalgo-Clyne

1 Alasdair Dickinson
2 Ross Ford CAPTAIN
3 Willem Nel
4 Grant Gilchrist
5 Izak van der Westhuizen
6 Dimitri Basilaia
7 Roddy Grant
8 David Denton

Substitutes
16 James Hilterbrand
17 Wicus Blaauw
18 Geoff Cross
19 Sean Cox
20 Hamish Watson
21 Sean Kennedy
22 Joaquin Dominguez
23 Michael Tait

Geebus, we have more Scottish surnames in the Scarlets team than you have in there!

What areas you boys think Edinburgh are going to be targetting?

Great to see the dynamic trio of Jones, Atiga and Cuthbert on the pitch at the same time.  

Gc - I'm currently lording it up in first class on the east coast to London. Bloody outrage though, they didn't start serving booze until midday! Got on the train at 9:30!

Spidy - 11 of the starting team are Scottish.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Geebus, we have more Scottish surnames in the Scarlets team than you have in there!

What areas you boys think Edinburgh are going to be targetting?

I think our areas of focus will be:
1. Not playing like we've all just met in the car park.
2. Not getting anyone yellow carded.
3. Not giving Lee Jones the ball.
4. Not giving Ben Atiga any more doughnuts.

True that, Spidey, altho from the starting team only Atiga (thank god) and Basilia can never play for Scotland - vdW is a 'project' player in all but name apparently.

Visser and Walker injured?

Spidey - our pack is pretty strong and that front row has done well in the scrums.

The less said about the backs the better - let's just say it's not the most dynamic backline going!

RDW - just a bit of fun at the traditional Scottish names like Jones, De Luca, Atiga, Hidalgo-Clyne, Nel etc, when we have the likes of McCusker in our ranks. Just goes to show how surnames are not indicators of nationality. Sure as hell I wouldn't want to tell De Luca he was Italian and not Scottish.

So it looks like it is going to be a battle of the forwards then. Whats the weather meant to be like? Is the game on alba?

ScarletSpiderman wrote:RDW - just a bit of fun at the traditional Scottish names like Jones, De Luca, Atiga, Hidalgo-Clyne, Nel etc, when we have the likes of McCusker in our ranks.  Just goes to show how surnames are not indicators of nationality.  Sure as hell I wouldn't want to tell De Luca he was Italian and not Scottish.

So it looks like it is going to be a battle of the forwards then.  Whats the weather meant to be like?  Is the game on alba?

He'd cry

Happy with the Edinburgh pack (good continuity of selection), but there is a massive gulf in class between the Edinburgh and Scarlets backs.

I'm pleased that Leonard is getting a run, and I've been saying all along that Hidalgo-Clyne should be given game time at 9 this season, but Atiga, Jones and Cuthbert in tandem doesn't give me any confidence at all. The only positive for me is NDL back at 13 - good defender and his excellent individual try against Munster should give him confidence. Still, a midfield combo of Priestland, JD2 and Scott Williams is light years ahead of Leonard, Atiga and NDL.

Head says Scarlets by 10 points. Heart says Edinburgh by 1!

ScarletSpiderman wrote:RDW - just a bit of fun at the traditional Scottish names like Jones, De Luca, Atiga, Hidalgo-Clyne, Nel etc, when we have the likes of McCusker in our ranks.  Just goes to show how surnames are not indicators of nationality.  Sure as hell I wouldn't want to tell De Luca he was Italian and not Scottish.

So it looks like it is going to be a battle of the forwards then.  Whats the weather meant to be like?  Is the game on alba?

De Luca has Italian family, hidalgo-metrosexual-clyne is half Spanish and lee Jones is just crap.

Never heard of a Scottish McCusker so you can keep him!

I don't think that I've ever seen a starting backline with 4 guys named Williams.
The rugby equivalent of 5 Guys Named Moe.

I might put a bet on Williams to score.  

I can't help thinking we shouldn't have let Owen Williams the fly half sneak off to Leicester at the end of last season. We could have feilded a backline like this:
Li Williams, Aa Warren, Sc Williams, Ad Warren, Jo Williams, Ow Williams, Rh Williams
That would be a lazy commentators dream.

George Carlin wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Geebus, we have more Scottish surnames in the Scarlets team than you have in there!

What areas you boys think Edinburgh are going to be targetting?

I think our areas of focus will be:
1. Not playing like we've all just met in the car park.
2. Not getting anyone yellow carded.
3. Not giving Lee Jones the ball.
4. Not giving Ben Atiga any more doughnuts.

 
Missed a couple:
5. To properly implement a good catch a not feck-up every single re-start.
6. Not substituting our entire front row the very second that they start to play well.

5 is particularly key, for nothing more than the sake of my sanity.

If I see another situation where we plod away at the opposition line for 10 minutes yielding a net gain of 3 points, only for us to cough up an easy 7 points in 30 seconds from the restart I'll go nuts!!

George Carlin wrote:

3. Not giving Lee Jones the ball.
4. Not giving Ben Atiga any more doughnuts.

Thats fookin comedy gold!

ScarletSpiderman wrote:I can't help thinking we shouldn't have let Owen Williams the fly half sneak off to Leicester at the end of last season.  We could have feilded a backline like this:
Li Williams, Aa Warren, Sc Williams, Ad Warren, Jo Williams, Ow Williams, Rh Williams
That would be a lazy commentators dream.

It's like a periodic table

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

What areas you boys think Edinburgh are going to be targetting?

The dole queue, if they don't improve.

Manky-Flanker wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

What areas you boys think Edinburgh are going to be targetting?

The dole queue, if they don't improve.

Well I think there will be some queue there, the Scarlets and Blues players/coaches are in a similar boat.

tigertattie wrote:

George Carlin wrote:

3. Not giving Lee Jones the ball.
4. Not giving Ben Atiga any more doughnuts.

Thats fookin comedy gold!

 

His name was mentioned in another thread so thought I would ask this question here.  Does anyone know what’s happening with Farndale?  I only ask because there was high hopes for him this season (might have just been me), but there's been no sign of him.  Given the dynamism of Jones and Cuthbert, it might have been nice to have him on the bench at least for this game. Unless he's injured again and I've just missed that.

When are these new signings arriving at Edinburgh?

Spoons - can't fathom why he's not played yet.

Leinster - a lot of them have recently arrived, Cornell du preez will be here soon and the other kiwi guy next month

Watching Lee Jones play on the wing makes me want to dust off my boots and challenge him for the position

and I'm a retired prop

Glad its not just me.

I'm likewise annoyed about Farndale being omitted. I remember seeing him at U20 level and thinking that he had a big future, and yet he just isn't making the step up.

I just don't understand the point of picking Cuthbert on the wing.

funnyExiledScot wrote:I'm likewise annoyed about Farndale being omitted. I remember seeing him at U20 level and thinking that he had a big future, and yet he just isn't making the step up.

I just don't understand the point of picking Cuthbert on the wing.

That's more like it.

Not just picking Cuthbert -signing him. I think they thought he was the welsh winger. Perhaps due to the bufties perennially gin sodden state. I do hope he was cheap

Well if Tonks and Brown were to be injured, then Cuthbert is probably our 3rd choice fullback. I can't see him in any other role, he just isn't sharp enough for the wing.

Wings are on the pitch to score tries and finish. Being quick off the mark is pretty essential.

Whoever has been working on Mike Brown's pace needs to work with Cuthbert. If he could work on his kicking from hand, fielding of the high ball and his pace, then he could develop at 15, but like Brown, he'll never be a top class winger.

funnyExiledScot wrote:Well if Tonks and Brown were to be injured, then Cuthbert is probably our 3rd choice fullback. I can't see him in any other role, he just isn't sharp enough for the wing.

Wings are on the pitch to score tries and finish. Being quick off the mark is pretty essential.

Whoever has been working on Mike Brown's pace needs to work with Cuthbert. If he could work on his kicking from hand, fielding of the high ball and his pace, then he could develop at 15, but like Brown, he'll never be a top class winger.

That would be Margo Wells of "Alluuuuuuuuuuuuunnn" fame (for those with long enough memories)

She not Tom Evans' sprint coach too?