Pro 12: Scarlets vs Edinburgh Rugby 12th Feb

Scarlets have lost just one of their last eight home games at Parc y Scarlets in the PRO12: 26-27 to Ospreys on Boxing Day.

Edinburgh Rugby have slipped to successive defeats, to Grenoble in the European Challenge Cup and at Cardiff Blues in the Guinness PRO12.

Edinburgh's solitary victory on their last five trips to Wales came on their most recent visit to Parc y Scarlets in March 2015.

The two meetings between the clubs in the Guinness PRO12 last season ended in a 20-all draw at BT Murrayfield and a 26-15 Edinburgh win in Wales.

Edinburgh's overall record at Parc y Scarlets is won two, lost six.

Teams
Scarlets
15 Michael Collins, 14 Gareth Owen, 13 Regan King, 12 Hadleigh Parkes ©, 11 DTH van der Merwe, 10 Steven Shingler, 9 Rhodri Williams, 1 Phil John, 2 Kirby Myhill, 3 Peter Edwards, 4 George Earle, 5 David Bulbring, 6 Aaron Shingler, 7 Will Boyde, 8 Morgan Allen

Replacements: Ryan Elias, Dylan Evans, Rhodri Jones, Rory Pitman, Steff Hughes, Aled Davies, Aled Thomas, Steff Evans



Edinburgh
Sutherland
Cochrane
Andress
Bresler
B Toolis
Coman
Watson
Du Preez

Fowles
Burleigh
Brown
Beard
Allan
Hoyland
Tonks

Subs - Turner, Dell, Berghan, A Toolis, Ritchie, Kennedy, Kinghorn, Fife

Not overly confident for this one, both given the Scarlets' form this season and also Edinburgh's recent form, which is truly awful.

Hopefully we can get some injured players back for this one - that's the only positive I think we'll be able to take!

I'm just trying to work out who we will have available for this game.

Sheils
Cochrane
Andress
A.Toolis
B. Toolis if released from the Sco squad. If not then Coman
6?
Watson
Du Preez

Fowles
Burleigh
Hoyland
Strauss
Allan
Brown
Tonks

Not sure who we have available at 6. If Ben's back then Coman will play 6, if not then, Bradbury at 8 with Du Preez at 6?

Either way it's not a particularly strong team

A chance for Edinburgh to really show that they are playoff contenders here. Scarlets, having set the pace at the begining of the season, have fallen right off the pace recently and their form is all over the place. Still never an easy place to go and get a result,but thats what they need to do if they are going to be in with a shout at the end of the season.

Both sides not massively effected by international call ups but neither have great depth either. You would have to fancy Scarlets at home, but hopefully Edinburgh can at least take something from the game.

RDW_Scotland wrote:Not overly confident for this one, both given the Scarlets' form this season and also Edinburgh's recent form, which is truly awful.

Scarlets have not exactly been setting the heather on fire recently either!

We haven't even found the heather to set on fire recently. Plus with the calls up to the full national team and the under 20 team plus injuries, we are threadbare in some places.

I think this is going to be a really tough game for Edinburgh, plus our record down there isn't exactly worth writing home about.

EWT Spoons wrote:We haven't even found the heather to set on fire recently.  Plus with the calls up to the full national team and the under 20 team plus injuries, we are threadbare in some places.

I think this is going to be a really tough game for Edinburgh, plus our record down there isn't exactly worth writing home about.

It will be interesting to see if they pull Kinghorne back from the U20s for this match. I think they should leave him alone and let him play down there. A good U20s tournament, which we look like we might have now, won't do his development any harm at all.

I think it makes sense to leave him there. We have some depth at FB so he wouldn't make a huge difference. We could however do with Ritchie back.

Tonks at 15 and Burleigh at 10 is a perfectly servicable backline, plus Tom Brown can play 15 if required.

Keep Kinghorn where he is!

Sutherland will probably be travelling reserve so I suspect Dell will start with Shiells on the bench.

Harley was travelling reserve for the England game so hopefully we get Toolis back. He needs gametime!

BigGee wrote:

EWT Spoons wrote:We haven't even found the heather to set on fire recently.  Plus with the calls up to the full national team and the under 20 team plus injuries, we are threadbare in some places.

I think this is going to be a really tough game for Edinburgh, plus our record down there isn't exactly worth writing home about.

It will be interesting to see if they pull Kinghorne back from the U20s for this match. I think they should leave him alone and let him play down there. A good U20s tournament, which we look like we might have now, won't do his development any harm at all.

I think they should certainly leave Kinghorn with the U20s, never mind just his development, a good tournament for Scotland could benefit Scottish rugby for years to come with the added confidence it would bring the players.

EWT Spoons wrote:I'm just trying to work out who we will have available for this game.

Sheils
Cochrane
Andress
A.Toolis
B. Toolis if released from the Sco squad.  If not then Coman
6?
Watson
Du Preez

Fowles
Burleigh
Hoyland
Strauss
Allan
Brown
Tonks

Not sure who we have available at 6.  If Ben's back then Coman will play 6, if not then, Bradbury at 8 with Du Preez at 6?

Either way it's not a particularly strong team

I think we'll get a couple of players back from Scotland:

1.Sutherland 2.Cochrane 3.Andress 4.A Toolis 5.B Toolis 6.Coman 7.Watson 8.Du Preez 9.Fowles 10.Burleigh 11.Helu 12.Strauss 13.Allan 14.Brown 15.Tonks

16.Shiells 17.Turner 18.Berghan 19.Ritchie 20.Bradbury 21.Kennedy 22.Fife 23.Cuthbert

Something along those lines I think, which is a pretty handy 22 all things considered.

I want Ben Toolis on the bench for Scotland, but if Cotter is going to persist with Swinson then he should play here. If Ritchie is being brought away from U20's, he better be starting. Maybe Turner or Cochrane will have to cover 7. Would like Dean back from the 7s.

Is Strauss injured? Thought he had to go off in the last game?

Manu, Bresler and Mckenzie are how far away from fitness?

Manu is targeting the home game against the Scarlets at the end of the month.

No idea about the rest.

It'll be really great to get Manu back. He started the season with real promise.

If Strauss is injured then I'd put Sam Beard straight in at 12. He's played there before for us and has a pretty good all round game.

Probably not worth bringing back Ritchie. The U20s had a great result and should look to build on that. Provided Scotland can use Low or Welsh I'd probably put Fagerson back into the U20s as well. Important that those boys gain some confidence from the tournament. Turner can in theory cover hooker and openside, and we could have an extra back on the bench (Jade Te Rure for example, just for a laugh).

Ritchie and Kinghorn are not in the under 20s squad - can only assume they're in the squad for this game.

They better be anyway!

RDW_Scotland wrote:Ritchie and Kinghorn are not in the under 20s squad - can only assume they're in the squad for this game.

They better be anyway!

The team announcement on the SRU site does say that Kinghorn and Ritchie are unavailable due to pro team commitments. Along with Adam Hastings. Wonder if he's going to play for bath?

EWT Spoons wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:Ritchie and Kinghorn are not in the under 20s squad - can only assume they're in the squad for this game.

They better be anyway!

The team announcement on the SRU site does say that Kinghorn and Ritchie are unavailable due to pro team commitments.  Along with Adam Hastings.  Wonder if he's going to play for bath?

Well they will be missing their first and second choices, so even if he is 4th in line, that should put him on the bench.

The U20s will miss all of these players, but hard to deny them the chance to get some full pro game time. That is what is going to matter for them in the long run.

EWT Spoons wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:Ritchie and Kinghorn are not in the under 20s squad - can only assume they're in the squad for this game.

They better be anyway!

The team announcement on the SRU site does say that Kinghorn and Ritchie are unavailable due to pro team commitments.  Along with Adam Hastings.  Wonder if he's going to play for bath?

Not sure I am happy about that unless Kinghorn is starting at 10 and Ritchie starts at 6.

Hastings is a curious one, but Bath are down to bare bones. Bowden was not good against Gloucester (think he was the 10) and when Eastmond went off their backline fell apart. Bowden to 12 and Hastings into 10 to settle the ship? Bath are away to Worcester in a relegation match so it will be a big challenge.

Hazel Sapling wrote:

EWT Spoons wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:Ritchie and Kinghorn are not in the under 20s squad - can only assume they're in the squad for this game.

They better be anyway!

The team announcement on the SRU site does say that Kinghorn and Ritchie are unavailable due to pro team commitments.  Along with Adam Hastings.  Wonder if he's going to play for bath?

Not sure I am happy about that unless Kinghorn is starting at 10 and Ritchie starts at 6.

Hastings is a curious one, but Bath are down to bare bones. Bowden was not good against Gloucester (think he was the 10) and when Eastmond went off their backline fell apart. Bowden to 12 and Hastings into 10 to settle the ship? Bath are away to Worcester in a relegation match so it will be a big challenge.

Shame to weaken the U20s, I would have kept them as strong as possible personally, at least until they had played Wales and we knew if they were still unbeaten or not. Looks like Hastings must be benching for Bath at least with both Ford and Priestland needed elsewhere. Could be two Scottish 10s facing each other with Heathcote playing for Worcester.

RDW_Scotland wrote:Ritchie and Kinghorn are not in the under 20s squad - can only assume they're in the squad for this game.

They better be anyway!

Then Kinghorn should hopefully start for Edinburgh at 15. I think he offers more than Tonks at the moment, who has been off his game all season.

Ritchie can bench for Captain Coman.

The key will be getting Ben Toolis back from Scotland, otherwise Coman will play lock and the front 5 will be mince.

Much stronger team from Edinburgh compared to last game out - a bit more confident for this.

Great to see Ben Toolis playing (and not warming the stands in Cardiff) and Sam Beard at 12 over Strauss.

Not the best that Ritchie and Kinghorn were called out of the under 20s to sit on the bench, but I hope they at least get some gametime.

Could Bradbury not have done a decent job on the bench instead of Ritchie??

Can't see the team (or find it on the website) - can anyone post it?

The team announcement has been the usual ER social media shambles - they have posted the link to the news story but it says 'access denied'

Sutherland
Cochrane
Andress
Bresler
B Toolis
Coman
Watson
Du Preez

Fowles
Burleigh
Brown
Beard
Allan
Hoyland
Tonks

Subs - Turner, Dell, Berghan, A Toolis, Ritchie, Kennedy, Kinghorn, Fife

Good to see Bresler and Beard back. Beard is a very good player and has been pretty much underused this season.

Still baffled over the selection of Andress though.

That's a very decent team indeed and very happy with Beard at 12.

Scarlets very much aware of the Edinburgh threat in the pack and have gone for bulk in the second row with both Earle and new signing Bulbring starting:

15 Michael Collins, 14 Gareth Owen, 13 Regan King, 12 Hadleigh Parkes ©, 11 DTH van der Merwe, 10 Steven Shingler, 9 Rhodri Williams, 1 Phil John, 2 Kirby Myhill, 3 Peter Edwards, 4 George Earle, 5 David Bulbring, 6 Aaron Shingler, 7 Will Boyde, 8 Morgan Allen

Replacements: Ryan Elias, Dylan Evans, Rhodri Jones, Rory Pitman, Steff Hughes, Aled Davies, Aled Thomas, Steff Evans

Should be a great one.

VinceWLB wrote:Good to see Bresler and Beard back. Beard is a very good player and has been pretty much underused this season.

Still baffled over the selection of Andress though.

Got to agree with this. Every time Berghan has come on he has been an improvement over Andress. Now obviously it could be because he's coming on against a tiring team, but surely worth a start.

Other than that, it's a strong looking team. Would like to see Bradbury given a shot potentially ahead of Ritchie (like RDW says) so he could have stayed with the u20s, but there you go.

Nothing against Ritchie (he is still very young) but I've always been far more impressed whenever Bradbury has played, yet Ritchie is always selected ahead of him.

RDW_Scotland wrote:Nothing against Ritchie (he is still very young) but I've always been far more impressed whenever Bradbury has played, yet Ritchie is always selected ahead of him.

Same here and i have mentioned my worries in the past of Bradbury actually leaving Edinburgh if seen so much down the pecking order.

VinceWLB wrote:Scarlets very much aware of the Edinburgh threat in the pack and have gone for bulk in the second row with both Earle and new signing Bulbring starting:

15 Michael Collins, 14 Gareth Owen, 13 Regan King, 12 Hadleigh Parkes ©, 11 DTH van der Merwe, 10 Steven Shingler, 9 Rhodri Williams, 1 Phil John, 2 Kirby Myhill, 3 Peter Edwards, 4 George Earle, 5 David Bulbring, 6 Aaron Shingler, 7 Will Boyde, 8 Morgan Allen

Replacements: Ryan Elias, Dylan Evans, Rhodri Jones, Rory Pitman, Steff Hughes, Aled Davies, Aled Thomas, Steff Evans

Should be a great one.

And Rhodri Jones dropped after his scrummaging masterclass against Connacht.

Don't know why the Scarlets persist with S Shingler and they should have called Dan Jones backfrom the under 20s, at least he looks like he could develop into a player. You guys are lucky you couldn't play him for Scotland in the end!

The game is on TV too, which is nice.

RDW_Scotland wrote:Nothing against Ritchie (he is still very young) but I've always been far more impressed whenever Bradbury has played, yet Ritchie is always selected ahead of him.

Agreed. Ritchie still looks like he'd need help carrying the shopping home.

funnyExiledScot wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:Nothing against Ritchie (he is still very young) but I've always been far more impressed whenever Bradbury has played, yet Ritchie is always selected ahead of him.

Agreed. Ritchie still looks like he'd need help carrying the shopping home.

He was a standout last week in the U20 game, showed what the fuss is about.

You'd hope so given it was his 2nd year in the under 20s and he's got pro games under his belt.

I still think Bradbury has done better for Edinburgh though!

BigGee wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:Nothing against Ritchie (he is still very young) but I've always been far more impressed whenever Bradbury has played, yet Ritchie is always selected ahead of him.

Agreed. Ritchie still looks like he'd need help carrying the shopping home.

He was a standout last week in the U20 game, showed what the fuss is about.

I didn't see the U20 game, but as RDW points out, as a full time pro player with 1st XV Pro12 and European experience this season you'd expect him to look pretty good.

I have high hopes for him, but I do think Bradbury looks (so far) to be the better prospect of the two.

It is worth watching FES if you are up at 2am with baby FES looking for something to do

RDW_Scotland wrote:It is worth watching FES if you are up at 2am with baby FES looking for something to do

Getting to watch the Edinburgh and Scotland games this weekend would be a big step!!

Fair enough - there is a highlights video somewhere, worth watching for Kinghorn's try alone!

Just watched the highlights on the Beeb. Pretty awesome stuff. We look really powerful and dynamic, and some great rucking speed as well.

Kinghorn looks like a man amongst boys.

Quite a few of those u20s worth a look at for stepping up into Edinburgh colours. Was impressed with Tom Galbraith at 12, solid in defence and was very good with ball in hand and looked like he was calm under pressure as well. Ally Miller looked pretty useful at No8 as well, despite the Scotland scrum going backwards everytime he managed to get the ball out under severe pressure, carried well too.
The other one who impressed was Scott Burnside when he came on at openside, looks quite feisty and a real work horse.

What does everyone think about as Kinghorns best position going forward, Played mostly full back at senior rugby but mostly 10 at junior rugby.
I'd keep him at full back, got some pretty talented guys coming through at 10 but not too many coming through at 15.
He looks a class act at 15 already and think he could really challenge Hogg for the Scotland full back spot in the next year or two.

Ally Miller looks a little small to really make it at number 8 - his official stats have him at 6ft 4 which is a load of rubbish having seen him a few times. He's also not got a big natural build - any added bulk will slow him down. He's still young though so let's see how he develops.

You are right in that Kinghorn looks excellent at fullback already and could really challenge Hogg. He's got a real turn of pace for someone so tall, and because he's tall he'll do well under the high balls. He's got a huge boot to.

I'd like to see him at 10 just to see what he is like there, but 15 may be his ultimate position.

I think Kinghorn could be a very good 10 as well. looking at the talent coming through though we have quite a few very good young 10s on the horizon with Hastings, Hutchison, Haldane and a couple others playing at 10 in premiership academies.
Full back position though there doesn't really seem to be any coming through, Howarth who is in the Edinburgh academy looks ok but again has probably been playing more at 10 recently.
As you say because of Kinghorns size he is very secure under the high ball and is also a great last defender as he has the speed as well. What I've been most impressed though is his open play running and he seems to have a mature head on his shoulders. He knows when to run the ball and when to kick it, something which Hogg hasn't always gotten right.

Majestic83 wrote:Quite a few of those u20s worth a look at for stepping up into Edinburgh colours. Was impressed with Tom Galbraith at 12, solid in defence and was very good with ball in hand and looked like he was calm under pressure as well. Ally Miller looked pretty useful at No8 as well, despite the Scotland scrum going backwards everytime he managed to get the ball out under severe pressure, carried well too.
The other one who impressed was Scott Burnside when he came on at openside, looks quite feisty and a real work horse.

What does everyone think about as Kinghorns best position going forward, Played mostly full back at senior rugby but mostly 10 at junior rugby.
I'd keep him at full back, got some pretty talented guys coming through at 10 but not too many coming through at 15.
He looks a class act at 15 already and think he could really challenge Hogg for the Scotland full back spot in the next year or two.

So would I. I haven't seen him at 10 but he's made a really good impression so far at 15 and Hogg needs some competition. He's got a really cool head on his shoulders, decent pace and (as a 10 coming through the ranks) a good passing and kicking game.

Like it or not Edinburgh will have Duncan Weir at 10 next season. Hopefully we can sign someone like Hastings to understudy and let Kinghorn, Tonks and Cuthbert battle it out at 15, with Tonks providing occasional cover at 15.

I’d like to see Kinghorn given a shot at 10, especially given Edinburgh are crying out for one, but you’re right in saying that at 15 he has shown some real quality.  You could arguably say he’s Edinburgh’s best, or more specifically in form, FB.  Tonks seems to have lost his way, probably hasn’t helped the move to 10 not really panning out, Cuthbert is solid but far from spectacular, Brown and Fife can both play FB, but are probably better utilised on the wing.

I’d give Kinghorn a shot at 10 just to see how he gets on, but like has been said he might well be suited to being a FB long term

Absolutely baffling to me that Richie and Kinghorn have been brought back into the Edinburgh squad to sit on the bench, we have given ourselves a chance to win something at junior level, probably the first time ever, and we are shooting ourselves in the foot by removing two of our best players.

If Bradbury and Cuthbert are fit then there really is no need for them having been called back.

EST wrote:Absolutely baffling to me that Richie and Kinghorn have been brought back into the Edinburgh squad to sit on the bench, we have given ourselves a chance to win something at junior level,  probably the first time ever, and we are shooting ourselves in the foot by removing two of our best players.

agreed, very strange decision just to have them warm the bench for Edinburgh.

After beating England last week I would have liked to have seen the u20s really kick on and build on that. They might still do but will be tougher missing their 2 best players in kinghorn and hastings and also missing Ritchie.

Majestic83 wrote:

EST wrote:Absolutely baffling to me that Richie and Kinghorn have been brought back into the Edinburgh squad to sit on the bench, we have given ourselves a chance to win something at junior level,  probably the first time ever, and we are shooting ourselves in the foot by removing two of our best players.

agreed, very strange decision just to have them warm the bench for Edinburgh.

After beating England last week I would have liked to have seen the u20s really kick on and build on that. They might still do but will be tougher missing their 2 best players in kinghorn and hastings and also missing Ritchie.

Agree with you both, and as noted above, Bradbury and Cuthbert could easily have taken those bench spots.

Solly clearly rates the two of them very highly.The U20 6 nations is bit like that though, I think Wales have had few players pulled back to the regions as well. To be fair to the players that is there chance to get some pro game time and show what they can do.

It is probably more important for Edinburgh to do well than Scotland U20s at the moment. All the youngsters, maybe even Fargerson, will go to the WC in the summer and get the chance there to show what they can do.