Tiger Woods called a "Cavalier with the rules"
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The v2 Forum :: Sport :: Golf
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Tiger Woods called a "Cavalier with the rules"
First topic message reminder :
Tiger Woods has been called a cheat by one of American television’s most respected golf commentators. In an explosive article in the US magazine Golf, former PGA Tour professional and Golf Channel lead analyst Brandel Chamblee has tarred the world number one with the worst label possible.
It seems inevitable Woods will take legal action, for how can he let such an allegation go unchallenged in this, of all sports?
Woods won five times on the PGA Tour and was named Player of the Year by his peers. But he was also involved in no fewer than four rules controversies, and it clearly incensed Chamblee.
Calling Tiger ‘cavalier with the rules,’ the 51 year old American gave exam grades in the magazine article to each of the leading players and awarded Woods an ‘F.’ He then embarked on an analogy that left no room for doubt as to why the grade was so dismal.
‘When I was in the fourth grade I cheated on a maths test and when I got the paper back it had “100” written at the top and just below the grade was this quote: ‘Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive!”
‘It was an oft-quoted line from the epic poem “Marmion” by Sir Walter Scott, and my teacher’s message was clear. Written once more beneath that quote was my grade of “100” but this time with a line drawn through it and beneath that an F.
'I never did ask my teacher how she knew I cheated and I certainly didn’t protest the grade. I knew I had done the wrong thing and I never forgot the way I felt.’ Drawing a line through a score of 100 and giving Woods an F, Chamblee concluded: ‘I remember when we only talked about Tiger’s golf.
'I miss those days. He won five times and contended in majors and won the Vardon Trophy and....how shall we say this....was a little cavalier with the rules.’
Woods has caused plenty of muttering behind hands with his rules issues but Chamblee is the first to declare he cheated. It is certainly a brave call given the power Woods holds, and the storm that will assuredly follow.
Chamblee might not be the biggest name on the golf analyst circuit but he is certainly among the most forthright and knowledgeable
Woods’s rules woes began at the Abu Dhabi Championship in January, where he was given a two shot penalty for taking an illegal drop.
By far the worst came at the Masters, where he again took an illegal drop after his approach to the 15th in the second round cannoned unluckily off the flag stick into a water hazard. Woods duly signed for an incorrect scorecard when he was subsequently assessed a two stroke penalty.
Disqualification ought to have followed, only for the Masters rules committee to come up with a tortuous explanation as to why ‘exceptional’ circumstances applied. Even so, when he realised he had broken the rules, Woods should have disqualified himself. Instead, he played on.
A month later, he allegedly gave himself another favourable drop at the Players Championship. Finally, at the BMW Championship in Chicago last month, he argued vehemently against a two shot penalty being assessed for causing his ball to move while lifting a twig, even though television evidence appeared damning.
Now Chamblee has reached the gravest conclusion. We haven’t heard the last of this.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/golf/article-2465974/Tiger-Woods-labelled-cheat-pro-commentator-Brandel-Chamblee.html#ixzz2i75VRvS8
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
Tiger Woods has been called a cheat by one of American television’s most respected golf commentators. In an explosive article in the US magazine Golf, former PGA Tour professional and Golf Channel lead analyst Brandel Chamblee has tarred the world number one with the worst label possible.
It seems inevitable Woods will take legal action, for how can he let such an allegation go unchallenged in this, of all sports?
Woods won five times on the PGA Tour and was named Player of the Year by his peers. But he was also involved in no fewer than four rules controversies, and it clearly incensed Chamblee.
Calling Tiger ‘cavalier with the rules,’ the 51 year old American gave exam grades in the magazine article to each of the leading players and awarded Woods an ‘F.’ He then embarked on an analogy that left no room for doubt as to why the grade was so dismal.
‘When I was in the fourth grade I cheated on a maths test and when I got the paper back it had “100” written at the top and just below the grade was this quote: ‘Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive!”
‘It was an oft-quoted line from the epic poem “Marmion” by Sir Walter Scott, and my teacher’s message was clear. Written once more beneath that quote was my grade of “100” but this time with a line drawn through it and beneath that an F.
'I never did ask my teacher how she knew I cheated and I certainly didn’t protest the grade. I knew I had done the wrong thing and I never forgot the way I felt.’ Drawing a line through a score of 100 and giving Woods an F, Chamblee concluded: ‘I remember when we only talked about Tiger’s golf.
'I miss those days. He won five times and contended in majors and won the Vardon Trophy and....how shall we say this....was a little cavalier with the rules.’
Woods has caused plenty of muttering behind hands with his rules issues but Chamblee is the first to declare he cheated. It is certainly a brave call given the power Woods holds, and the storm that will assuredly follow.
Chamblee might not be the biggest name on the golf analyst circuit but he is certainly among the most forthright and knowledgeable
Woods’s rules woes began at the Abu Dhabi Championship in January, where he was given a two shot penalty for taking an illegal drop.
By far the worst came at the Masters, where he again took an illegal drop after his approach to the 15th in the second round cannoned unluckily off the flag stick into a water hazard. Woods duly signed for an incorrect scorecard when he was subsequently assessed a two stroke penalty.
Disqualification ought to have followed, only for the Masters rules committee to come up with a tortuous explanation as to why ‘exceptional’ circumstances applied. Even so, when he realised he had broken the rules, Woods should have disqualified himself. Instead, he played on.
A month later, he allegedly gave himself another favourable drop at the Players Championship. Finally, at the BMW Championship in Chicago last month, he argued vehemently against a two shot penalty being assessed for causing his ball to move while lifting a twig, even though television evidence appeared damning.
Now Chamblee has reached the gravest conclusion. We haven’t heard the last of this.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/golf/article-2465974/Tiger-Woods-labelled-cheat-pro-commentator-Brandel-Chamblee.html#ixzz2i75VRvS8
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
Fernando- Fernando
- Posts : 36461
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Re: Tiger Woods called a "Cavalier with the rules"
So in summary, the point that I apparently didn't grasp was actually your opinion that what Sergio said is racist? And now your whole Toure hyperbole makes complete sense? Even though you stated that opinion and the hyperbole in the same message thereby can have had no idea if I understood it.
Got it, say more. You've clearly nailed it
Got it, say more. You've clearly nailed it
MustPuttBetter- Posts : 2951
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Re: Tiger Woods called a "Cavalier with the rules"
I think it has well known racist overtones in the states which is why it was picked up on, I'm not sure fatty Alliss would have got the reference tho. I suppose it would compare to going on about spuds to the bog trotters....
MontysMerkin- Posts : 1593
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Re: Tiger Woods called a "Cavalier with the rules"
That's a whole different debate that has already happened!
There were a fair number of people both on here and publicly willing to give Sergio the benefit of the doubt.
My point was it amuses me how Tigerites will twist themselves into all sorts of knots to do whatever it takes for Team Tiger. Very strange
There were a fair number of people both on here and publicly willing to give Sergio the benefit of the doubt.
My point was it amuses me how Tigerites will twist themselves into all sorts of knots to do whatever it takes for Team Tiger. Very strange
MustPuttBetter- Posts : 2951
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Re: Tiger Woods called a "Cavalier with the rules"
I missed this butTiler76 wrote:MontysMerkin wrote:I don't think anyone in their right mind would try and say that Garcia was not being racist. Why fried chicken? Hence Garcia's apology.
Garcia apologised because his comment caused offence, not (necessarily) because it was intended to be racist. You choose to believe he must be racist because he must have known the implications of his comment, despite evidence (at the time) from other people on this forum who state they had never heard of the racist connotations of "fried chicken" before this incident. I choose to believe that Sergio made a poor throwaway remark in response to a direct question, but with no racial intent. A brain fart, if you will. However, I freely accept I may not be in my right mind......
MustPuttBetter- Posts : 2951
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Re: Tiger Woods called a "Cavalier with the rules"
If people made monkey chants at Gareth Bale, would that be racist?
Davie- Posts : 7821
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Re: Tiger Woods called a "Cavalier with the rules"
no, but it would be an insult to the monkey to make the comparison.Davie wrote:If people made monkey chants at Gareth Bale, would that be racist?
super_realist- Posts : 29075
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Re: Tiger Woods called a "Cavalier with the rules"
I'm sure Kick It Out would find a way to use it to drive their agenda. So "yes".Davie wrote:If people made monkey chants at Gareth Bale, would that be racist?
Tiler76- Posts : 173
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Re: Tiger Woods called a "Cavalier with the rules"
Nothing to do with keeping the crossing point in line. He was dropping stroke and distance, which should be as near as possible to the same spot from which the original shot was taken. Its the simplest drop rule in golf. Admitting to moving it back some to help his approach did not help his cause.MontysMerkin wrote:Correct but i still reckon it was a dropped bollock and not intentional. Yes he wanted to go a few yards further back but he fecked up by not keeping the ball crossing point in line. Think it was a mistake rather than an intentional attempt at cheating - not that it excuses it. But I'm nice like that - like to see the good in people
Mac, I've already said that I fully understand he probably didnt intentionally break the rules but if someone is so focused in trying to gain as much advantage as they can in taking a drop to the extent the drop is illegal then its pretty valid that their integrity is questioned. Intentionally or not doesnt matter, he should be aware of the rules and how they dictate what he should do in a situation. If he'd 'gotten away with it', won and years down the line someone watching the highlights noticed.... what would he have to do? Rhetorical question but worth thinking about.
Lairdy- Posts : 794
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Re: Tiger Woods called a "Cavalier with the rules"
Or maybe the Society for Monkey LawyersTiler76 wrote:I'm sure Kick It Out would find a way to use it to drive their agenda. So "yes".Davie wrote:If people made monkey chants at Gareth Bale, would that be racist?
super_realist- Posts : 29075
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Re: Tiger Woods called a "Cavalier with the rules"
The Sergio Tiger spat is so dull. Sergio said a racist remark. Sergio apologised and they shook hands. Move on ffs.
Lairdy- Posts : 794
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Re: Tiger Woods called a "Cavalier with the rules"
Lairdy
You could apply the same logic to Tiger's Masters drop. I.e. Tiger made a poor drop. The committee decided a 2-stroke penalty was appropriate. Moving on.....
You could apply the same logic to Tiger's Masters drop. I.e. Tiger made a poor drop. The committee decided a 2-stroke penalty was appropriate. Moving on.....
Tiler76- Posts : 173
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Re: Tiger Woods called a "Cavalier with the rules"
By the same token it sickens me how racists will twist themselves into all sorts of knots to do whatever it takes for team Garcia. But like baby Jesus I forgive all you sinners.MustPuttBetter wrote:That's a whole different debate that has already happened!
There were a fair number of people both on here and publicly willing to give Sergio the benefit of the doubt.
My point was it amuses me how Tigerites will twist themselves into all sorts of knots to do whatever it takes for Team Tiger. Very strange
MontysMerkin- Posts : 1593
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Re: Tiger Woods called a "Cavalier with the rules"
It looks like Chamblee was forced to apologise. Maybe the Golf Channel were afraid of legal action.
lorus59- Posts : 997
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Re: Tiger Woods called a "Cavalier with the rules"
I'm a racist now?MontysMerkin wrote:By the same token it sickens me how racists will twist themselves into all sorts of knots to do whatever it takes for team Garcia. But like baby Jesus I forgive all you sinners.MustPuttBetter wrote:That's a whole different debate that has already happened!
There were a fair number of people both on here and publicly willing to give Sergio the benefit of the doubt.
My point was it amuses me how Tigerites will twist themselves into all sorts of knots to do whatever it takes for Team Tiger. Very strange
You're like one of those kids who just repeats everything you say?!
I think you're embarrassing yourself so I'll let you leave it there. At least you've answered my moron query
MustPuttBetter- Posts : 2951
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Re: Tiger Woods called a "Cavalier with the rules"
No not a racist. Calm down dear. You're no more racist than I'm a tigerite.
MontysMerkin- Posts : 1593
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Re: Tiger Woods called a "Cavalier with the rules"
excuse me, who are the bog trotters?MontysMerkin wrote:I think it has well known racist overtones in the states which is why it was picked up on, I'm not sure fatty Alliss would have got the reference tho. I suppose it would compare to going on about spuds to the bog trotters....
incontinentia- Posts : 3977
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McLaren- Posts : 17631
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Re: Tiger Woods called a "Cavalier with the rules"
Cue synthetic outrage and a letter to Barry Took from Inco.McLaren wrote:The irish.
super_realist- Posts : 29075
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Re: Tiger Woods called a "Cavalier with the rules"
Is he any relation to peregrin?
McLaren- Posts : 17631
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Re: Tiger Woods called a "Cavalier with the rules"
Bog trotters are small six fingered folk who live in the wetlands of southern Lincolnshire. Raised on a diet of cabbage and mud they rarely measure more than 4 foot 3, but due to the extra fingers have the most amazing musical ability. Especially on the banjo.incontinentia wrote:excuse me, who are the bog trotters?MontysMerkin wrote:I think it has well known racist overtones in the states which is why it was picked up on, I'm not sure fatty Alliss would have got the reference tho. I suppose it would compare to going on about spuds to the bog trotters....
MontysMerkin- Posts : 1593
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Re: Tiger Woods called a "Cavalier with the rules"
You see what happens to you when you take too many drugs kids
BlueCoverman- Posts : 1223
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Re: Tiger Woods called a "Cavalier with the rules"
Can we get back on topic please?
navyblueshorts- Moderator
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Re: Tiger Woods called a "Cavalier with the rules"
So in summary:
1. Tiger may or may not be a cheat
2. Chamblee may or may not be an idiot
3. Golf may or may not be racist
4. Mac is full of it
5. Outrage can be synthesised
6. Drugs are not good.
We've got this debating lark down pat.
1. Tiger may or may not be a cheat
2. Chamblee may or may not be an idiot
3. Golf may or may not be racist
4. Mac is full of it
5. Outrage can be synthesised
6. Drugs are not good.
We've got this debating lark down pat.
Bob_the_Job- Posts : 1344
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Re: Tiger Woods called a "Cavalier with the rules"
Glad we got that sorted out.
MontysMerkin- Posts : 1593
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Re: Tiger Woods called a "Cavalier with the rules"
I'm outraged. Some drugs are good. This is ridiculous. I don't see how anyone can get away with posting this type of... Oh.. Hang on.Bob_the_Job wrote:So in summary:
1. Tiger may or may not be a cheat
2. Chamblee may or may not be an idiot
3. Golf may or may not be racist
4. Mac is full of it
5. Outrage can be synthesised
6. Drugs are not good.
We've got this debating lark down pat.
Number 5 has me stitched up here.
Sorry all.
Carry on.
Roller_Coaster- Posts : 2572
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Re: Tiger Woods called a "Cavalier with the rules"
Seems tiger and his agent are still not happy with Chamblee and want the golf channel to take some action.
Speaking at mission hills
Worth considering that the NBC/Golf Channel broadcast the World Challenge.
Speaking at mission hills
Tiger wrote:"All I am going to say is that I know I am going forward. But then, I don't know what the Golf Channel is going to do or not. But then that's up to them. The whole issue has been very disappointing as he didn't really apologize and he sort of reignited the whole situation."
Are they looking for a sacking or just an on air apology?Mark steinberg wrote:"I'm all done talking about it and it's now in the hands of the Golf Channel....That's Tiger's view and that's mine, and all we want to do is move forward. And whether the Golf Channel moves forward as well, then we'll have to wait and see."
Worth considering that the NBC/Golf Channel broadcast the World Challenge.
McLaren- Posts : 17631
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Re: Tiger Woods called a "Cavalier with the rules"
Mac,
I don't understand why what Chamblee wrote should be the subject of conjecture around NBC/GC's coverage of the "World" Challenge.
Please explain, given that the opinion expressed was on neither NBC or the GC. Surely that's going after the wrong horse, which has already bolted anyway?
I don't understand why what Chamblee wrote should be the subject of conjecture around NBC/GC's coverage of the "World" Challenge.
Please explain, given that the opinion expressed was on neither NBC or the GC. Surely that's going after the wrong horse, which has already bolted anyway?
kwinigolfer- Posts : 26476
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Re: Tiger Woods called a "Cavalier with the rules"
Kwini
It is clear from the quotes I provided that tiger and steiny think the golf channel should do something. Did you read my post?
So don't ask me why it is golf channel that team tiger have decided should deal with chamblee, but they have.
Just don't get why tiger would wish to pick a fight with one of his event partners.
It is clear from the quotes I provided that tiger and steiny think the golf channel should do something. Did you read my post?
So don't ask me why it is golf channel that team tiger have decided should deal with chamblee, but they have.
Just don't get why tiger would wish to pick a fight with one of his event partners.
McLaren- Posts : 17631
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Re: Tiger Woods called a "Cavalier with the rules"
Mac,
My point is that would you expect the BBC to apologize for something one of their journos wrote in the Sporting Life? Of course not.
I read your post but your question should be why Woods and "Steiny" are apparently so stupid as to expect a third party to apologize for something they haven't done.
Perhaps being just a bit "Cavalier" again?
My point is that would you expect the BBC to apologize for something one of their journos wrote in the Sporting Life? Of course not.
I read your post but your question should be why Woods and "Steiny" are apparently so stupid as to expect a third party to apologize for something they haven't done.
Perhaps being just a bit "Cavalier" again?
kwinigolfer- Posts : 26476
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Re: Tiger Woods called a "Cavalier with the rules"
Inco expected the BBC to apologise for use of the common phrase "Luck of the irish"
super_realist- Posts : 29075
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Re: Tiger Woods called a "Cavalier with the rules"
I didn't express an opinion as to whether they had the correct target for their ire or not.
And no, that should not have been my question as it would have been unnecessarily biased.
Is it likely tiger has bothered to check the exact facts, such as the original publication?
And no, that should not have been my question as it would have been unnecessarily biased.
Is it likely tiger has bothered to check the exact facts, such as the original publication?
McLaren- Posts : 17631
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Re: Tiger Woods called a "Cavalier with the rules"
All a bit like playing to the wrong rule, a la Augusta. Perhaps being a bit "Cavalier with the Rules".
Not unlike his pre-hydrant sex life.
Not unlike his pre-hydrant sex life.
kwinigolfer- Posts : 26476
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Re: Tiger Woods called a "Cavalier with the rules"
oh, i thought he was saying the "look" of the Irish. this has all been a huge misunderstanding!super_realist wrote:Inco expected the BBC to apologise for use of the common phrase "Luck of the irish"
incontinentia- Posts : 3977
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Re: Tiger Woods called a "Cavalier with the rules"
Surprised Bono can get sunglasses with the lenses that close together Inco.
Must be kids ones
Must be kids ones
super_realist- Posts : 29075
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Re: Tiger Woods called a "Cavalier with the rules"
a monocle works fine for most of us super, saves money on frames too.super_realist wrote:Surprised Bono can get sunglasses with the lenses that close together Inco.
Must be kids ones
incontinentia- Posts : 3977
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Re: Tiger Woods called a "Cavalier with the rules"
Someones hacked his account!!!
MontysMerkin- Posts : 1593
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Re: Tiger Woods called a "Cavalier with the rules"
I hear Tiger has been dropped by EA Sports .. Chamblee is making sure he was dropped in the right place
Davie- Posts : 7821
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Re: Tiger Woods called a "Cavalier with the rules"
Or maybe is post hydrant sex life as well. Does anyone else think LV might be a bit "cavalier" in the bedroom? And she has a hole in one!kwinigolfer wrote:All a bit like playing to the wrong rule, a la Augusta. Perhaps being a bit "Cavalier with the Rules".
Not unlike his pre-hydrant sex life.
- Lindsey Vonn on Letterman:
In seriousness from the interviews I have seen of her she seems like a pretty nice person. So whats she doing with tiger?
McLaren- Posts : 17631
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Re: Tiger Woods called a "Cavalier with the rules"
Hadn't seen Christine Brennan's take on the Tiger/Brandel brouhaha, but ran in to my local European Tour caddie and he pointed me in this direction:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/golf/2013/10/23/brandel-chamblee-tiger-woods/3173301/
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/golf/2013/10/23/brandel-chamblee-tiger-woods/3173301/
kwinigolfer- Posts : 26476
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Re: Tiger Woods called a "Cavalier with the rules"
FOUR rules incidents in a year? That's what I call a Tiger Slam Scam.
pedro- Posts : 7353
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Re: Tiger Woods called a "Cavalier with the rules"
What a crock of merde. I suggest she stays on the baseball if that's her interest. She thinks that because trash talking about baseball players is 'OK', it's OK to talk ballocks re. golfers? Great journalism .kwinigolfer wrote:Hadn't seen Christine Brennan's take on the Tiger/Brandel brouhaha, but ran in to my local European Tour caddie and he pointed me in this direction:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/golf/2013/10/23/brandel-chamblee-tiger-woods/3173301/
navyblueshorts- Moderator
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Re: Tiger Woods called a "Cavalier with the rules"
Seems rory isn't a chamblee fan
http://www.geoffshackelford.com/homepage/2013/10/30/rory-if-it-wasnt-for-tigerpeople-wouldnt-know-brandel.html
I wonder what the "right way" is?
http://www.geoffshackelford.com/homepage/2013/10/30/rory-if-it-wasnt-for-tigerpeople-wouldnt-know-brandel.html
Lawernce donegan (of all people) tweeted that mcilroy "has lost the plot" for making the above statement.Rory Mcilroy wrote:'I say Brandel was completely wrong and I don't think he has the authority to say anything bad about Tiger,' said McIlroy. 'People wouldn't know who Brandel was if it wasn't for Tiger, so I am completely against what he said and he should be dealt with in the right way.'
I wonder what the "right way" is?
McLaren- Posts : 17631
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Re: Tiger Woods called a "Cavalier with the rules"
Bearing in mind Rory has a swoosh shaped vested interest in siding with Tiger, i think you've got to take his comments with a pinch of salt, no?
Rory still talks like a very young man. "I don't think he has the authority to say anything bad about Tiger" - what does that mean?!
Rory still talks like a very young man. "I don't think he has the authority to say anything bad about Tiger" - what does that mean?!
MustPuttBetter- Posts : 2951
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Re: Tiger Woods called a "Cavalier with the rules"
What an idiot pube head is, as unintelligent as Nine Chins himself it would seem.
super_realist- Posts : 29075
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Re: Tiger Woods called a "Cavalier with the rules"
Hard to argue with much in this assessment of the situation;
http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/80825/an-idiots-guide-to-the-tiger-woods-brandel-chamblee-feud
http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/80825/an-idiots-guide-to-the-tiger-woods-brandel-chamblee-feud
McLaren- Posts : 17631
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Re: Tiger Woods called a "Cavalier with the rules"
I've no problem with what Chamblee said, I've never heard of the guy before but he didn't actually say the word "Cheat" at any point did he?
What a horribly written, apologists bumlicking review of a storm in a tea cup, almost as bad as Plebgate.
What a horribly written, apologists bumlicking review of a storm in a tea cup, almost as bad as Plebgate.
super_realist- Posts : 29075
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Re: Tiger Woods called a "Cavalier with the rules"
super_realist wrote:I've no problem with what Chamblee said, I've never heard of the guy before but he didn't actually say the word "Cheat" at any point did he?
navyblueshorts- Moderator
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Re: Tiger Woods called a "Cavalier with the rules"
I'd actually say that was quite a fair summaryMcLaren wrote:Hard to argue with much in this assessment of the situation;
http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/80825/an-idiots-guide-to-the-tiger-woods-brandel-chamblee-feud
MustPuttBetter- Posts : 2951
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Re: Tiger Woods called a "Cavalier with the rules"
Would have been even fairer if he questioned why the Golf Channel should have taken action against Chamblee when his incendiary article was for a different organization entirely.
kwinigolfer- Posts : 26476
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Re: Tiger Woods called a "Cavalier with the rules"
Read into this what you will. I read a boardroom discussion full of well-paid and eager lawyers that were ready to pounce ...
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/31/sports/golf/chamblee-resigns-from-golf-magazine-after-critical-remarks-on-woods.html?src=rechp&_r=0
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/31/sports/golf/chamblee-resigns-from-golf-magazine-after-critical-remarks-on-woods.html?src=rechp&_r=0
Shotrock- Posts : 3924
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