Saints vs Sarries

A classic performance from Saints. 6 (YES SIX) tries run past Sarries, dominant in all areas of the game.

Stand out players:

Samoa - great try, put Goode on his backside with a great side step, made a try, scored a great try and was generally involved in everything good. MotM

Myler - orchestrated a Saints back line that tore Sarries to shreds, defensively sound, threw some great long passes and some good grubbers, one that led to a try. At the moment playing better than every 10 in the AP, including Farrell.

Foden - two tries, a try saving tackle with his trademark ripping of the ball in the tackle over the try line, although Goode did rip it back but lost control.

Burrell - a couple of storming runs, a try, some very good tackles, (Manu style - ouchers), made a lot of ground taking the ball forward.

Waller - Owned Stevens, 5 penalties against Sarries front row in the first half. Replaced by his brother with 20 minutes left. Both look like they just left school yesterday

Elliot - learnt a lot from Ashton, always seems to be the one backing up and getting on the end of try scoring pop passes.


With 4 first choice forwards on England duty plus their 1st choice 9, it shows great strength in depth as even the 3rd tier players looked up to AP level.

Saints go marching on   

though Goode played well for Sarries

Have to say i was socked when i saw the score. Who last put 40 past sarries or beat them by 20.

Have Saints now worked out how to play Sarries

It's Manoa btw.

A comprehensive dismantling by Saints, but both teams were missing key players.

Sarries were lucky that their second try was given. Everyone I was watching it with thought it was held up.

Lordy, Mama.  What a great game!  Happiness and joy in THE ROSE OF THE SHIRES
The score could easily have been greater.

The pack - outstanding - set the tone for every ruddy thing that happened.  Mongo terrific
Manoa - one of the best players in the Premiership, second row or on the flank.  Not bad for a Californian.
Dowson - great club player, does all the nitty gritty work
Dickinson - gets better and better, strong at the base
Foden - should be with England, but was glad he was home today, great try saving play
Elliott - should also be considered for National honours, great try saving tackle on Strettle
Fotuali'i - Jeez this lad can play. Really, really well.

Stevie - great day.  Yes, the forwards were dominating, but I don't want to hear the nonsense from Saints supporters knocking this lad.  He gets better every year and every game.

I thought that Saints played the best rugby for a long time. I too was surprised about the score.

I was shocked to see Foden playing, thought he would be with the England camp.

Well played Saints.

I agree, best match by Saints in a long time. And that includes their win over Sarries in the Premiership Semi-Finals last season.

I forgot to mention that our lad Alex Waller had the better of Matt Stevens. Not too bad.
And he's a local lad, to boot.

Great Saints performance but 'd have to disagree with some of your praise.

Foden - two tries, a try saving tackle with his trademark ripping of the ball in the tackle over the try line, although Goode did rip it back but lost control.

He did finish well but was generally poor. His basic FB skills have been sub-standard all season, he drops high balls and kicks badly.

Yes well done Saints.

Good prospects the Waller brothers by the look of it. Alex backed up his performance against the Ospreys with another impressive game.

Saints look as though they will be very strong during this period of the Autumn Internationals.

Hopefully Burrell won't be overlooked by Lancs for too much longer. He's got so much more to offer than Barritt.

Changes in the lineup? I didn't think you guys rotated... Seriously though, I watched some of the game and Saints were very good. They were as impressive as they were against the Ospreys. Perhaps they are the real deal this year. They're a threat in the Heineken Cup, but I don't see them winning that until they have a recent Premiership title under their belt, because I think the team needs the experience of winning the biggest games (they've lost the last two finals in all competitions they've been in). I'd also say the H-cup is more difficult to win than the Prem.

The Saint wrote:Changes in the lineup? I didn't think you guys rotated... Seriously though, I watched some of the game and Saints were very good. They were as impressive as they were against the Ospreys. Perhaps they are the real deal this year. They're a threat in the Heineken Cup, but I don't see them winning that until they have a recent Premiership title under their belt, because I think the team needs the experience of winning the biggest games (they've lost the last two finals in all competitions they've been in). I'd also say the H-cup is more difficult to win than the Prem.

Just as the RCC will be more difficult to win than the HEC.

The HC is often tough for English side as the Rabo sides rotate their squad due to the lack of competition in the league.

If sides in the Rabo have to earn their place in the RCC, I can see the English being on a more level field.

I don't think there will be the RCC... I do think there will be a european competition with a slightly different format to now though. Sgt, looks as if these two English teams have rotated? As did Bath and Glaws, so it would seem (just as us knowledgable people knew all along) that squad rotation is a rugby thing, not a pro12 thing. The English lose in the Heineken Cup because they can't beat the Irish provincial teams who play with heart. If you get that home play-off no matter what in the new competition then you might have a chance.

No rotation in those sides that I can see, just the England players missing due to being called up for training ahead of the international window according to the EPS agreement.

niwatts wrote:No rotation in those sides that I can see, just the England players missing due to being called up for training ahead of the international window according to the EPS agreement.

That was a response to a sarcastic joke, ni.

The English teams tend to rotate through Int call ups rather than a lack of domestic need.

Teams need to put out their best sides or they don't get HEC qualification come the end of the season, this isn't the case in the Rabo.

Yeah and that's the way we do it. And what?

And that's why sides in the Rabo will need to earn their places in the top European competition rather than just been given the places.

All for the good imo.

Anyway, going well off topic here.

At this rate all the kids will be getting Andy Goode style haircuts!
Great play by the pie man this afternoon  

Well past it

sorry but Farrell is still a far better player than Myler. If Myler was at good as you believe he wouldn't be so far down the 10 pecking order.

Myler wouldn't even get onto our bench if Hodgson was fit.

Well done to Myler for outplaying our 3rd choice 10 Mordt though. 


I think this is good for Sarries because it exposes our flaws and in the grand scheme of things it doesn't really matter.

It's an away loss to one of the best sides in the league. It's about time Saints beat us at FG anyway.

Our scrum halves simply aren't good enough at the moment - need to seriously give game time to Spencer and Baldwin.

Stevens has shown he's not good enough. Need to give Johnston more game time.

It shows that more youthful exuberance is needed. This means Jamie George, Ben Ransom,Jackson Wray,George Kruis and Ben Spencer must play more.

Exposing flaws is better than flattering to deceive. It means changes should now be made.

Well done Saints but the season is far from over.

beshocked wrote:Well past it

sorry but Farrell is still a far better player than Myler. If Myler was at good as you believe he wouldn't be so far down the 10 pecking order.

Myler wouldn't even get onto our bench if Hodgson was fit.

Well done to Myler for outplaying our 3rd choice 10 Mordt though. 

What a spiteful, pathetic thing to post. Clearly your emotions are getting the better of you if you think that this abstract 'pecking order' is more appropriate evidence for comparing the performances of FHs than, you know, actually watching games and making your mind up.

How about, instead of throwing out snide remarks about a good player who is having a great season so far, you accept that your team took a bit of a pasting and move on? After all, like most people on here, I've seen my team take much bigger beatings from much poorer teams than this and not once have I ever felt the need to go online, single out of their players and post disparaging remarks about them.

Fuzzy Dunlop wrote:

beshocked wrote:Well past it

sorry but Farrell is still a far better player than Myler. If Myler was at good as you believe he wouldn't be so far down the 10 pecking order.

Myler wouldn't even get onto our bench if Hodgson was fit.

Well done to Myler for outplaying our 3rd choice 10 Mordt though. 

What a spiteful, pathetic thing to post. Clearly your emotions are getting the better of you if you think that this abstract 'pecking order' is more appropriate evidence for comparing the performances of FHs than, you know, actually watching games and making your mind up.

How about, instead of throwing out snide remarks about a good player who is having a great season so far, you accept that your team took a bit of a pasting and move on? After all, like most people on here, I've seen my team take much bigger beatings from much poorer teams than this and not once have I ever felt the need to go online, single out of their players and post disparaging remarks about them.

Its because he's a spiteful and pathetic person. You must remember, its against the rules to criticise Saracens, Timmy gets all in a Tizzy if you do.

Myler is becoming a class act, to be fair he's getting a bit of an armchair ride behind the solid Saints pack now. But, he makes good decisions and is kicking well. Saracens were manshamed at the weekend, from 1 - 15, it would appear that judging by some of the Twitter comments from the Saracens players, they have a great deal more humility than some of their suppporters.

'shocked does at least represent a far higher proportion of Sarries' fans than v2 supporters of other leading Jeff clubs.

Fuzzy Dunlop wrote:

beshocked wrote:Well past it

sorry but Farrell is still a far better player than Myler. If Myler was at good as you believe he wouldn't be so far down the 10 pecking order.

Myler wouldn't even get onto our bench if Hodgson was fit.

Well done to Myler for outplaying our 3rd choice 10 Mordt though. 

What a spiteful, pathetic thing to post. Clearly your emotions are getting the better of you if you think that this abstract 'pecking order' is more appropriate evidence for comparing the performances of FHs than, you know, actually watching games and making your mind up.

How about, instead of throwing out snide remarks about a good player who is having a great season so far, you accept that your team took a bit of a pasting and move on? After all, like most people on here, I've seen my team take much bigger beatings from much poorer teams than this and not once have I ever felt the need to go online, single out of their players and post disparaging remarks about them.

Sorry if you are offended by the truth but well past it's post smacks of arrogance to me. I did accept my side took a bit of a pasting but I don't expect posters to rub it in that we got hammered. To say that Myler has performed better than Farrell is wrong in my opinion.

Abstract pecking order? Ha ha. Hardly - just need to see how few people advocate a call up for Myler. I saw a man of the match performance from Andy Goode. Doesn't mean I think he warrants a call up for England. I have seen Danny Cipriani put in a man of the match performance for Sale (not this weekend of course). Again I wouldn't want to see him in an England shirt as of now. Yes this was actually from watching those two play.

Outplaying Mordt is hardly something to be proud of.

Jimpy perhaps read the rest of my post. I said well done Saints but praising Myler for outplaying Mordt is just plain stupid sorry.

Praise Foden for outplaying Goode by all means. Praise the Saints Waller for mullering Stevens and co. Praise Burrell for his performance but Myler? Come on - he was opposite our 3rd choice 10.

Next you'll be saying you want Myler for England.

Personally I believe that Myler deserves praise for playing well. He is not flashy but he is exactly the kind of player that Saints need right now. with a big, dynamic pack, and then strike runners like Burrell, Foden, North and the Pisis + the electricity of Elliot - a 10 who does the simple things is perfect for them.

He deserves praise for playing well, and for making the job of Brown, Burger and Goode very difficult.

It is not a Wee weeing contest about who is better, who will be better - just stating that a much derided player is playing pretty damned well.

Not a wee weeing contest? Oh right because that deliberately provocative opening post is not that?

Seems like my brother is bigger than yours straight away.

Just pointing out that I completely disagree with the statement that Myler is playing better than Farrell.

Outplaying Mordt to me doesn't really improve Myler's credentials in my eyes.

VietGwentRevisited wrote:...............just stating that a much derided player is playing pretty damned well.

Agree with this statement 101%.
Without getting into the 'better thans', it is clear Stevie Myler is doing very well and has improved year on year. As a Saints supporter, I have no complaints. In fact, I am absolutely convinced we can win with him, consistently.

But if you think I am playing favourites because I am a Saints supporter, I recommend a journey through the muck and mire of the Saints fan forum, One would think Stevie stole the Crown Jewels and knocked-up the Royal Chambermaid.

doctor grey I would say yes Myler has done well but I still wouldn't say he has been one of your best performers. Sure he has got on with the job but he's profiting from the rest of the team's success in my opinion. Plus personally there are quite a few fly halves I would want instead of him in my team.

beshocked wrote:
Sorry if you are offended by the truth but well past it's post smacks of arrogance to me.  I did accept my side took a bit of a pasting but I don't expect posters to rub it in that we got hammered.  To say that Myler has performed better than Farrell is wrong in my opinion.

Abstract pecking order? Ha ha. Hardly - just need to see how few people advocate a call up for Myler. I saw a man of the match performance from Andy Goode. Doesn't mean I think he warrants a call up for England. I have seen Danny Cipriani put in a man of the match performance for Sale (not this weekend of course). Again I wouldn't want to see him in an England shirt as of now. Yes this was actually from watching those two play.

Outplaying Mordt is hardly something to be proud of.

Offended by the truth? Just how far is your head lodged up your arse? What I took offense to -- if you can call it that -- was your petulant reaction to the OP's opinion that Myler is the top performing FH this season with a "ner ner if he's playing better why is my FH higher in the pecking order?", followed by sarcastic compliments. You belittle Well Past It by the implication that he couldn't possibly have formed this view by anything more complicated than one match opposite Mordt (who you would genuinely struggle to show any less respect towards). Maybe, just maybe, he's watched plenty of rugby this season and has the mental capacity to make well reasoned judgements.

Of course, this doesn't sit with your view that your opinion is absolute truth. Not sure why it bothers you so much that someone out there thinks that there might be a player out performing your precious Faz, but I can see that you're quite emotional right now

As a neutral I'd say Myler was playing better than Farrell at the minute, only just.

I would say Farrell is the better player though, not a great deal in it mind.

I think Farrell is playing well, and would look really good in a Saints shirt. Sarries have a real lack of strike runners in the backs. I also think Farrell is the better player and has more potential.

However as I said before I do think Myler is playing really well this season and is the ideal sort of 10 for the Saints.

beshocked wrote:doctor grey I would say yes Myler has done well but I still wouldn't say he has been one of your best performers. Sure he has got on with the job but he's profiting from the rest of the team's success in my opinion. Plus personally there are quite a few fly halves I would want instead of him in my team.

I think the problem with Stevie is he has improved each season but only a little each year.  Many people remember the Stevie of a few years ago. Now, in my mind, with over 200 matches for Saints under his belt, he is playing very well.  Is this because the rest of the team is firing?  No doubts that is a big part of it.    But he still has to bring the goods and seems to be doing just that game after game.  

I never compared him to anyone else.  And I am not really worried about any of that.  Just keep winning, Stevie.  All is well.

Fuzzy Dunlop wrote:

beshocked wrote:
Sorry if you are offended by the truth but well past it's post smacks of arrogance to me.  I did accept my side took a bit of a pasting but I don't expect posters to rub it in that we got hammered.  To say that Myler has performed better than Farrell is wrong in my opinion.

Abstract pecking order? Ha ha. Hardly - just need to see how few people advocate a call up for Myler. I saw a man of the match performance from Andy Goode. Doesn't mean I think he warrants a call up for England. I have seen Danny Cipriani put in a man of the match performance for Sale (not this weekend of course). Again I wouldn't want to see him in an England shirt as of now. Yes this was actually from watching those two play.

Outplaying Mordt is hardly something to be proud of.

Offended by the truth? Just how far is your head lodged up your arse? What I took offense to -- if you can call it that -- was your petulant reaction to the OP's opinion that Myler is the top performing FH this season with a "ner ner if he's playing better why is my FH higher in the pecking order?", followed by sarcastic compliments. You belittle Well Past It by the implication that he couldn't possibly have formed this view by anything more complicated than one match opposite Mordt (who you would genuinely struggle to show any less respect towards). Maybe, just maybe, he's watched plenty of rugby this season and has the mental capacity to make well reasoned judgements.

Of course, this doesn't sit with your view that your opinion is absolute truth. Not sure why it bothers you so much that someone out there thinks that there might be a player out performing your precious Faz, but I can see that you're quite emotional right now

Fuzzy Dunlop what do you expect me to do? Bow my head in praise of every single Saints player? Bravo, a Saints fan writes a thread boasting about their victory and doesn't expect someone to question some of their comments?

Yes perhaps I am being disrespectful to Mordt and Myler but Myler is getting too much hype and Mordt unfortunately hasn't done very well when given opportunities though I do like him.

What I said is not inaccurate. Myler is currently behind at least Farrell,Burns and Flood in the England pecking order. Then there are other fly halves in the league like Hodgson,Steenson,Goode,Evans,Botica,Geraghty,Mieres,Clegg,Ford and Cipriani who would probably do as well behind the Saints pack.

Outplaying Mordt is a not a huge feather in the cap of Myler yet you would think that from well past it's reaction Myler outplayed Dan Carter and the ABs.

Sgt Pooly Myler for England no 10 then?

Myler played well, getting a good ride from your pack thats what you'd expect, but he put in nice long flat passes, opened up space for the strike runners and took the right decisions at the right times generally. Hes been doing that most of the season too.

Extremely impressed by Burrell again.

Standout performances all over the park from saints though, Sarries took a beating, and thats not something you get the opportunity to say about this sarries side, they're a very, very good team and dont often lose like that, it says something about the level of the saints performance overall.

The difference Alex King has made to the Saints attacking game is outstanding. You can have a good team but a good coach is worth his weight in gold imo.

Well played Saints, I expect Sarries to hit back next week, they wont have enjoyed that.

Well this thread appears to have descended into a slagging match.

Saints were very very impressive in this game, it will be interesting to see whether they can take that sort of form and continue with it. As said above, credit needs to be given to Alex King for really helping to improve the Saints attacking game.

On the subject of King, I feel with the right coaching, Myler can be a similar level of player, ie very good at domestic level but never really gets a chance on the international scene.

beshocked, re. Mordt, I may be in a minority of 1, but I think he is a fairly good player, his pass to put over Taylor for his try was quality and is precisely the sort of thing I want to see more of in Farrell.
However as with so many LV/international window squad players, he tends to get a chance behind a weaker pack and so unless he plays out of his skin he is unlikely to get much praise.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:As a neutral I'd say Myler was playing better than Farrell at the minute, only just.

I would say Farrell is the better player though, not a great deal in it mind.

I would agree, mainly because when Farrell is good, he's very good, but he;'s inconsistent and has bad games, although it seems more likely to happen in an England shirt. Myler has been consistent so far this season, consistently good and so on that basis, i'd put him ahead of Farrell at the moment. Would I select Myler for England? Probably not, if Farrell and Flood were available.

Myler is playing very well and is having his best season so far.  But I think he needs to continue to deliver like this all season.  Then, if he keeps this standard of play up, he should be considered for the Summer Internationals.

I agree with the comments about Alex King.  As a Saints supporter, I can see the difference clearly.  No doubts he has had a big influence on Myler and the whole team.  

The thing about Farrell is he is still young and has, hopefully, a long career in front of him.  He has done very well, if you ask me, for a young player.

 doc, I think King was your most important signing this summer (says a lot when you look at their playing signings!!!!), I think he could be the guy that helps takes you guys to the next level you've been biting at consistently for a couple of years.

Saints have gotten smarter in the coaching stakes and they've addressed their issues with squad depth. Not only that but they've kept real quality throughout their team and now theres more quality behind it.

King's putting the icing on a cake thats been cooking away nicely, Saints are a team to be feared right now if you ask me, and a joy to watch.

I'd rather have Myler than Flood at the Tigers atm.

But I wouldn't be surprised if the former got snaffled up by the Sarries if his contract expired this season. How long have Saints tied him up for?

Comfort, no doubts King is making huge change at the club.
Port, not sure how long Stevie is tied up for. I will have to ask. In the meantime, please look elsewhere.........

I'm not looking with envy, Doc. Just noting that Myler is playing better than Floody far this season.

At the risk of spinning another stuck record, I hate IW windows concurrent with Jeff games.

Portnoy its one of those things thats a 2 sided coin, its a pain for the bigger clubs who have prized assets taken away and are weakened, and its a 'leveller' for the lower clubs who are less affected and thus stronger in comparison.

Its very much like this HEC debate, qualification against prioritisation, it very much depends on which lawn either side of the fence you sit.

Personally I agree with you, I think there should be some sort of development competition for the clubs to give gametime to young homegrown players (oh and for the record agree with qualification for the HEC).

Portnoy's Complaint wrote:I'd rather have Myler than Flood at the Tigers atm.

But I wouldn't be surprised if the former got snaffled up by the Sarries if his contract expired this season. How long have Saints tied him up for?

Portnoy's complaint sometimes I don't know if you actually serious or you are just joking. I do hope that in this case you are joking.

Portnoy's Complaint wrote:I'm not looking with envy, Doc. Just noting that Myler is playing better than Floody far this season.

At the risk of spinning another stuck record, I hate IW windows concurrent with Jeff games.

I know, mate.  Just joking about you looking at Stevie.  

I feel for the lad, in a way.  He has gotten so much stick from Saints supporters in the past.  And Saints brought in Shane Geraghty and then the highly esteemed Ryan Lamb to supplant him.  Hellsbells, I would be insulted if my club brought in Lamb to start before me, even at my advanced age.  Its funny, when Saints brought Stevie over from League, he was told it would take four or five years to settle in to the Union game at out half.  Here we are 5 years later and the original plan is actually on target.  

On the other hand, I absolutely agree about not liking the Internationals coinciding with club Rugby.  For me, I like to concentrate on one or the other, not both at the same time.

I don't know why beshocked is trying to crawl up his backside. the statement made i.e.

Myler - orchestrated a Saints back line that tore Sarries to shreds, defensively sound, threw some great long passes and some good grubbers, one that led to a try. At the moment playing better than every 10 in the AP, including Farrell

is my personal view that at the moment and over the first part of the season Myler has been the best performing 10 in the AP. That is not an attack on anybody.

Not only has he got the Saints back line going well, but he is kicking his goals with a better success rate than just about anyone else 88% or there about. I did not mention Mordt or any other Sarries player other than Stevens and even beshocked agreed that Waller completely outplayed him ( it must be embarrassing to be so outplayed by someone that looks like he left school yesterday). It is you, beshocked that is making the comparison between the Saints and Sarries players, not me.

Why get so personal?

Well past it not crawling up my backside. Your whole post is an attack.

It's a boast with a bit of gloating thrown in. You are right You don't even mention Saracens. That shows your contempt.

I don't dislike Saints but I dislike your haughty attitude.

The thing is I mention comparison of Saints and Sarries players to add context.

Myler's performance is not impressive when you look at the context.

How is Myler's performance not impressive when you look at the context beshocked? I am not sure I see that.

Now please feel free to correct me if I have this wrong, as I haven't read this thread in depth, but I think your argument was that outplaying Mordt doesn't hold much kudos as Mordt is not a top player. If that is indeed your basis of context for Myler's performance then in my opinion that is flawed.

Whilst in tv land the likes of Stuart Barnes love a little head to head with outside halfs and pit them against each other to excite the viewers, the reality is that they are not effectively playing directly against each other. I tend to think, and again it is only my personal view, that when viewing a 10's performance it should be in context of those most likely targetting him, the opposition back row.

Now his pack and Fotuali'i afforded Myler great protection and good ball, which makes his life a great deal easier, but was still hunted by a back row containing Kelly Brown and Jaques Burger, which is top class by anyone's barometer. In that context, he has performed well and steered his team to a big win.

Ozzy3123 you of course right. It's not just the opposite 10 he's facing but when you consider the backs missing from the opposition it also makes life a bit easier - 5 front line players.

Oh and missing two of their most dangerous ball carriers in the forwards who might ask questions of Myler in defence.